TCP on BID collision course, Secret Society vs Fresh Blood Options

[Richard Garvie]

As always, if you want the latest news from any of the "secret meetings" that take place in Newbury, you just need to pop into town on a Saturday morning to have a little natter.

Apparently the usual suspects (led by Peter Atkinson) are trying to take control of the BID project to ensure they are the people running it. From those at the meeting, numerous people spoke out against that happening and told Mr Atkinson and others that the town needs a fresh start for the BID to work and that none of the usual suspects should be on the steering group of The BID.

So kudos to people like Russell Downing, Neil Carter and the like, fresh blood in the town finally standing up against the small clique who continue to try and run this town like a middle eastern dictatorship.

Which way will it go? I guess the future direction of the town centre (and future vanity projects that line the pockets of certain people) will rest on who wins this tug of war.

[NWNREADER]

For those of us less well informed, what are the roles of the people you refer to?

[Richard Garvie]

For those of us less well informed, what are the roles of the people you refer to?

Russell is the BID Manager and Neil Carter runs Parkway. If Peter Atkinson and Co decide to impose themselves on The BID, Parkway will exclude themselves from the BID. If The BID doesn't have Parkway in it, most will vote against. If the BID goes to vote with Parkway in the zone but with Parkway against, Parkway could block vote bringing the whole thing down.

Amazingly, the TCP are still pushing their plan forward, so it's going to be an interesting few months. I've met Russell and he is a decent bloke, and I find him to be genuine in what he says. From what I can gather, the TCP might not even have a say in what happens with The BID beyond this point. It's certainly going to be an interesting few months for sure.

[NWNREADER]

Well, Parkway is excluded from the BID.

Who is Peter Atkinson?

[Richard Garvie]

Well, Parkway is excluded from the BID.

Who is Peter Atkinson?

The map on the bid site suggests that it is excluded, but Parkway owners SLI will pay the BID levy for it's retailers according to Russell when we last met, which is really good news. The only way the town would possibly accept The BID is if Parkway pay their due, and fortunately Russell appears to have got them all on side.

The trouble is, Peter Atkinson (holds a senior position on the TCP) and a few of his mates (you can probably guess who they are) now want to control the BID and that was my concern all along, it's just a secret society in another guise. With the vote expected to be pretty close, Neil Carter could be the trump card in either direction.

It begs the question, if the BID decision and future direction appears to be out of their control, do the TCP try and derail it to keep their hands on the levers of power? That would be incredible as it ws the TCP who instigated the BID process!!!

[Simon Kirby]

The map on the bid site suggests that it is excluded, but Parkway owners SLI will pay the BID levy for it's retailers according to Russell when we last met, which is really good news. The only way the town would possibly accept The BID is if Parkway pay their due, and fortunately Russell appears to have got them all on side.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, it's the shop units, not the landlord, that are liable for the BID levy because it's levied on and collected with their business rates. It's not a particularly important distinction as the shop ends up paying it anyways, but it's important to understand that it's the shop units that individually vote on the BID proposal because, even while they may have a contractural arrangement for SLI to pay their business rates for them, the liability for business rates is still on the units, so SLI doesn't have a block-vote.

[Richard Garvie]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, it's the shop units, not the landlord, that are liable for the BID levy because it's levied on and collected with their business rates. It's not a particularly important distinction as the shop ends up paying it anyways, but it's important to understand that it's the shop units that individually vote on the BID proposal because, even while they may have a contractural arrangement for SLI to pay their business rates for them, the liability for business rates is still on the units, so SLI doesn't have a block-vote.

From what I understand, SLI and the owners of the KC will pay the levy and include it within the service charge. This means they will block vote. That's how I understand it.

[Andy Capp]

From what I understand, SLI and the owners of the KC will pay the levy and include it within the service charge. This means they will block vote. That's how I understand it.

I think your understandings can be a little fantastic and premature at times. It would be useful if you could get this confirmed.

[Richard Garvie]

I think your understandings can be a little fantastic and premature at times. It would be useful if you could get this confirmed.

That was from speaking to the BID Manager, but Brian Burgess has written as much on his website too.

[Simon Kirby]

From what I understand, SLI and the owners of the KC will pay the levy and include it within the service charge. This means they will block vote. That's how I understand it.

I believe they are mistaken. Regulation 8 of the Business Improvement Districts (England) Regulations 2004 says that it's whoever's liable for the business rates who pays the levy and votes on the BID proposal, and Section 43 of the Local Government Finance Act 1988 says that it's the occupier of the units who is liable for the business rates, and if you have a shop lease that makes you the occupier, not the landlord.

It appears to be reasonably common that shopping centres give leases inclusive of business rates which the landlord pays on behalf of the tenant, and I'm guessing this is where the confusion has come in, but that's just a convenience, the legal liability for the business rates is with the occupier, and not the landlord even if it's actually the landlord who gets the bill - you can tell that it's the occupier who's liable, because if the landlord goes bankrupt as sometimes happens the council can sue the occupiers for the rates!

Thing to do is ask the Council's Returning Officer for a clarification because it's his responsibility to conduct the BID ballot.

[Andy Capp]

That was from speaking to the BID Manager, but Brian Burgess has written as much on his website too.

You are sure that a tenant of Parkway will pay into the BID but will have no individual voting rights? That doesn't seem reasonable to me.

[NWNREADER]

Especially as the development is not included in the BID... I cannot see shop tenants having the slightest interest in paying a levy that cannot benefit from - whether directly or through the lease fees.

[Richard Garvie]

You are sure that a tenant of Parkway will pay into the BID but will have no individual voting rights? That doesn't seem reasonable to me.

SLI will pay the levy for every store or the equivalent. I have also been told the same applies to the Kennet Centre, but that I've not heard from anyone but the other forum. I will contact David Holling to ask him, but is it definately him who will preside over this ballot?

[NWNREADER]

I am intrigued by your assertion that the owners of Park Way will pay the levy when the scheme is not in the BID area. It makes no sense, legally or in business terms.

I am surprised you have not checked out who to contact re management of the ballot, yet instantly believe every tit-bit you come across. The two traits are counter-productive.

[Richard Garvie]

I am intrigued by your assertion that the owners of Park Way will pay the levy when the scheme is not in the BID area. It makes no sense, legally or in business terms.

I am surprised you have not checked out who to contact re management of the ballot, yet instantly believe every tit-bit you come across. The two traits are counter-productive.

The BID manager has confirmed that Parkway will be in the zone. If it wasn't, I would campaign vigorously against The BID. Check your facts NWNREADER, I've had many discussions regarding The BID, just because the map is not showing Parkway in the are, doesn't mean it's not included. Speak to Russell.

[Simon Kirby]

I am intrigued by your assertion that the owners of Park Way will pay the levy when the scheme is not in the BID area. It makes no sense, legally or in business terms.

Legally the liability for the business rates and BID levy are with the occupier, but Council's aren't too precious about who pays the bill as long as it gets paid.

It's not uncommon for shop units to be leased inclusive of business rates, and in those circumstances it would be silly for the landlord to insist that the tenant paid the BID levy directly - the levy isn't collected separately, it's collected as part of the business rates, so you'd have the rather unmanagable situation of the landlord sending the council payment for 99% of the bill, and the tenant sending payment for the remaining 1% of the same bill.

I have no idea why a landlord would want to get involved in paying the occupier's bills as, like you say, it doesn't appear to make good business sense, but they do. Maybe someone can inform the debate here by finding out if Parkway and Kennet Centre rents are inclusive of business rates, as I suspect this is where the confusion has crept in.

Interestingly enough, as of today, the Valuation Office Agency isn't registering that the Parkway units are even liable for business rates, as only the carpark and the management suite were registered for business rates at postcode RG14 1AY. Perhaps WBC has made a secret agreement not to charge them business rates...

[Cognosco]

Legally the liability for the business rates and BID levy are with the occupier, but Council's aren't too precious about who pays the bill as long as it gets paid.

It's not uncommon for shop units to be leased inclusive of business rates, and in those circumstances it would be silly for the landlord to insist that the tenant paid the BID levy directly - the levy isn't collected separately, it's collected as part of the business rates, so you'd have the rather unmanagable situation of the landlord sending the council payment for 99% of the bill, and the tenant sending payment for the remaining 1% of the same bill.

I have no idea why a landlord would want to get involved in paying the occupier's bills as, like you say, it doesn't appear to make good business sense, but they do. Maybe someone can inform the debate here by finding out if Parkway and Kennet Centre rents are inclusive of business rates, as I suspect this is where the confusion has crept in.

Interestingly enough, as of today, the Valuation Office Agency isn't registering that the Parkway units are even liable for business rates, as only the carpark and the management suite were registered for business rates at postcode RG14 1AY. Perhaps WBC has made a secret agreement not to charge them business rates...

That huge £1 profit we made from the sale of land to SLI seems to be being whittled away rather more qickly than we thought? They gave us a new shopping center you know!

[Simon Kirby]

That huge £1 profit we made from the sale of land to SLI seems to be being whittled away rather more qickly than we thought? They gave us a new shopping center you know!

Thought you'd like that one.

[Cognosco]

Thought you'd like that one.

I even thought we may have even tempted User out with this one?