Photography and Filming in Council Meetings, The Local Audit and Accountability Bill Options

[Andy Capp]

I just did.

Yet you allowed it to go on for pages before piping up, but it remains to be seen if it will have the desired effect. You have mode no comment whatsoever on the OP.

[Cognosco]

It's a shame that a thread on quite an interesting topic has become another "simon says" debate with abusive language.

You unfortunately do not understand just how high feelings are running at the moment?
When a complete travesty of justice has taken place and there is, seemingly no way of correcting it, then you must expect people to resort to whatever means they deem necessary? Everyone has a breaking point when enough is enough but of course you would be unable to understand that.

[user23]

Yet you allowed it to go on for pages before piping up, but it remains to be seen if it will have the desired effect. You have mode no comment whatsoever on the OP.

Sometimes it's best just to listen, one doesn't have to interject into a debate to learn from it.

[Cognosco]

Sometimes it's best just to listen, one doesn't have to interject into a debate to learn from it.

No only interject when it needs deflecting?

[user23]

No only interject when it needs deflecting?

What needs deflecting?

Filming council meetings is something that's been in the news recently due new laws being passed and in this thread you've got a Deputy Leader of a council inviting residents, not only to come along and film meetings, but it looks like use their facilities to do it, too.

This seems to have been drowned out by single issue politician Simon, trying to assert his agenda yet again.

So, back on topic. Who's going to take the Deputy Leader up on his offer?

[Cognosco]

What needs deflecting?

Filming council meetings is something that's been in the news recently due new laws being passed and in this thread you've got a Deputy Leader of a council inviting residents, not only to come along and film meetings, but it looks like use their facilities to do it, too.

This seems to have been drowned out by single issue politician Simon, trying to assert his agenda yet again.

So, back on topic. Who's going to take the Deputy Leader up on his offer?

Yes who? Anybody who asks a pertinent question and gets the usual non answer and repeats the question is then open to the wrath and tyranny of this pointless town council.
I repeat, but get no answer as usual, until the fundamental problems that this council has created regarding declaring a person vexatious for trying to pin them down for answers is solved then no one is going to put themselves at risk pointlessly by attending council meetings.
Council meetings are only held to enable them to officially nod through what has already been decided secretly anyway?

Solve the problem of the elephant in the room regarding Simon first and then maybe, just maybe, some will be willing to engage? It is no good trying to emulate the main Wetminster parties by blaming the last lot. Get on and sort out what problems you have inherited instead of pretending they don't exist!

[Biker1]

Dear Forum Members,

This evening I have been called "lowlife" and even "scum". Reminds me of my policing days.

Yours

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

I am sure you haven't directly, personally been called such because that would be against forum rules wouldn't it, and we do not tolerate that do we?
I am sure that if this was the case then the Administrators would have interjected!

[Strafin]

Dear Forum Members,

This evening I have been called "lowlife" and even "scum". Reminds me of my policing days.

I forgot you had that going for you as well.

[user23]

Yes who? Anybody who asks a pertinent question and gets the usual non answer and repeats the question is then open to the wrath and tyranny of this pointless town council.
I repeat, but get no answer as usual, until the fundamental problems that this council has created regarding declaring a person vexatious for trying to pin them down for answers is solved then no one is going to put themselves at risk pointlessly by attending council meetings.
Council meetings are only held to enable them to officially nod through what has already been decided secretly anyway?

Solve the problem of the elephant in the room regarding Simon first and then maybe, just maybe, some will be willing to engage? It is no good trying to emulate the main Wetminster parties by blaming the last lot. Get on and sort out what problems you have inherited instead of pretending they don't exist!

I'm afraid the councillor has called your bluff on this wrath and tyranny nonsense, inviting the public in not just to film but it looks like to use council equipment too.

The only person in this thread who doesn't want people getting involved with local democracy is Simon.

[MontyPython]

I'm afraid the councillor has called your bluff on this wrath and tyranny nonsense, inviting the public in not just to film but it looks like to use council equipment too.

The only person in this thread who doesn't want people getting involved with local democracy is Simon.

Well done User. Yes you can come to the council meetings and even use their equipment to film a meeting where you won't get one of your questions answered.

According to Local government officials that is democracy in action!

[Ruwan Uduwerage-...]

Dear Forum Members,

Why not just come along to the odd (and they certainly are) meeting or two, get involved in any Working Groups that are established and become involved.

As stated before there is not only support for the public recording such meetings, but the Leader of the Council, Cllr Julian Swift-Hook is positively enthusiastic about the benefits of steaming meetings.

I personally welcome this process as it will hopefully reduce the all too common 'verbose' responses to a public audience of '0' that happens far too frequently. If Officers and Members were aware that everything they said and did in the Chamber was subject of public scrutiny then I suspect that I would get home a lot earlier than I currently do.

As for using our equipment, not sure I said this as NTC's equipment will be used transmitting to the world and beyond. Gosh my relatives in distant lands could watch and listen to Newbury Town Council at work, but I am not so sure that they will find the experience riveting, but it will increase the publics opportunity to scrutinise their council and decide whether their Councillors actually represent the interests of their Wards appropriately or as some in the Forum posit merely act as mouth pieces for their 'Masters at the District Council, or Party HQ.

Seriously though, if this increases openness and transparency it has to be good?

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

[Cognosco]

Dear Forum Members,

Why not just come along to the odd (and they certainly are) meeting or two, get involved in any Working Groups that are established and become involved.

As stated before there is not only support for the public recording such meetings, but the Leader of the Council, Cllr Julian Swift-Hook is positively enthusiastic about the benefits of steaming meetings.

I personally welcome this process as it will hopefully reduce the all too common 'verbose' responses to a public audience of '0' that happens far too frequently. If Officers and Members were aware that everything they said and did in the Chamber was subject of public scrutiny then I suspect that I would get home a lot earlier than I currently do.

As for using our equipment, not sure I said this as NTC's equipment will be used transmitting to the world and beyond. Gosh my relatives in distant lands could watch and listen to Newbury Town Council at work, but I am not so sure that they will find the experience riveting, but it will increase the publics opportunity to scrutinise their council and decide whether their Councillors actually represent the interests of their Wards appropriately or as some in the Forum posit merely act as mouth pieces for their 'Masters at the District Council, or Party HQ.

Seriously though, if this increases openness and transparency it has to be good?

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

Ruwan

A very many people have strong opinions but when it comes to standing up at public meetings and asking questions this for them is a game stopper. You mention council equipment and new media? You yourself are debating on a local forum just what is wrong with the council entering into this debate and answering the questions posted exactly the same as you are participating in now? After all it is only just another medium for engaging with the public is it not? Why should the public have to travel to the town hall after all you have probably reached more of the public on this forum than you ever will via other means that the council uses at the moment, I don't mind being corrected if this is incorrect, so why not suggest the other Councillors get together and request forum members post any questions they have and get them to debate them on this forum? I fail to see the difference in me traveling to the town hall or sitting at my computer and submitting the questions. At least I won't waste a lot of my time at the town hall and being informed that they are unable to enter into discussions on that subject which has occurred more times than I care to remember.
I therefore challenged the council to move with the times and engage with the public via the modern method of the digital aid instead of in a stuffy town hall.

[Ruwan Uduwerage-...]

I therefore challenged the council to move with the times and engage with the public via the modern method of the digital aid instead of in a stuffy town hall.

I fully support the sentiments, but we live in a society that rightly requires evidence and someone to take responsibility for their words and deeds, and although I am willing to participate in the Forum, the questions posed can only inform my actions, not dictate them for they are generally made by 'faceless' people who do not corroborate what they have said with evidence.

As with any official body, for the Council to take action it requires the applicant to at least send in a formal letter of concern/complaint. This may appear bureaucratic but to someone such as myself who has been involved in the criminal justice system for all of my adult life, it seems eminently sensible.

As for travelling to the Town Hall, we are talking about the residents of Newbury are we not? Newbury is not exactly huge, and the Town Hall is in the centre. Now if you had said that it was disproportionately expensive to park ones car in order to get to the Town Hall, I would agree as I seem to pay a vast amount weekly merely to attend or undertake Council business.

Of course an alternative method would be for Public and Forum members to make official complaints directly to Ward Councillors, but even then, for the complaint to be processed it would have to come from a named person, unless of course it was of a criminal nature, then really people should go straight to the police.

You have though posed a rather good question about posing questions in the post-Streaming period about whether someone need to be physically present in the Chamber to ask a supplementary question to one presented either orally or by way of a letter/email? I will seek further guidance on this one.

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

[Cognosco]

I fully support the sentiments, but we live in a society that rightly requires evidence and someone to take responsibility for their words and deeds, and although I am willing to participate in the Forum, the questions posed can only inform my actions, not dictate them for they are generally made by 'faceless' people who do not corroborate what they have said with evidence.

As with any official body, for the Council to take action it requires the applicant to at least send in a formal letter of concern/complaint. This may appear bureaucratic but to someone such as myself who has been involved in the criminal justice system for all of my adult life, it seems eminently sensible.

As for travelling to the Town Hall, we are talking about the residents of Newbury are we not? Newbury is not exactly huge, and the Town Hall is in the centre. Now if you had said that it was disproportionately expensive to park ones car in order to get to the Town Hall, I would agree as I seem to pay a vast amount weekly merely to attend or undertake Council business.

Of course an alternative method would be for Public and Forum members to make official complaints directly to Ward Councillors, but even then, for the complaint to be processed it would have to come from a named person, unless of course it was of a criminal nature, then really people should go straight to the police.

You have though posed a rather good question about posing questions in the post-Streaming period about whether someone need to be physically present in the Chamber to ask a supplementary question to one presented either orally or by way of a letter/email? I will seek further guidance on this one.

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

Ruwan

For some people to get to the town hall may be very much harder than you may imagine.
Disabled, wheelchair, medical equipment, to move out of the house can be a major logistical planning problem for some. Therefore parking problems sinks into insignificance to some.
I repeat there is the problem of being victimised by the existing council and I sincerely believe that is why not very many attend the town hall meetings.

I repeat I really appreciate that you are participating but as in the past it does not in fact produce any results that moves anything forward. I fail to see the difference in talking face to face in a workshop or whatever or than as we are doing at present on this forum. The only noticeable difference is that I have debated longer with you but the outcome would seem to be the same. We are in the same positions as when we started.
So my experience with the town council is the same as it always has been a wasted time I'm afraid.

[Simon Kirby]

As with any official body, for the Council to take action it requires the applicant to at least send in a formal letter of concern/complaint. This may appear bureaucratic but to someone such as myself who has been involved in the criminal justice system for all of my adult life, it seems eminently sensible.

That's not so. In the case of the decision to waive the £2.5k Victoria Park booking fee for the Christmas Market the Council was able to review its previous decision without a formal complaint from anyone.

In general the legal position is that a council can put anything at all it wants on the agenda as long as it has the competency to decide the issue. There is nothing in statute, common law, nor in your standing order that requires you to have a formal complaint.

A complainant has a right under your complaints process to have her complaint heard by the council, though in practice you make it very difficult for the public to exercise that right - I was only given a hearing in my eviction dispute seven months after you served me with the forfeiture - the first opportunity I was given to actually make my case, and of course once the council has decided something it never changes it mind.

[Ruwan Uduwerage-...]

We are in the same positions as when we started.
So my experience with the town council is the same as it always has been a wasted time I'm afraid.

Cognosco,

I am sorry to hear this, but as previously stated, without at least some official and direct engagement with those aggrieved my hands are frustratingly tied.

I hope that you will reconsider speaking with me directly. If you are unable to travel then I am more than willing to come to you.

What more can I offer?

Yours

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

[MontyPython]

In general the legal position is that a council can put anything at all it wants on the agenda as long as it has the competency to decide the issue.

Therein lies your problem

[Andy Capp]

That's not so. In the case of the decision to waive the £2.5k Victoria Park booking fee for the Christmas Market the Council was able to review its previous decision without a formal complaint from anyone.

In general the legal position is that a council can put anything at all it wants on the agenda as long as it has the competency to decide the issue. There is nothing in statute, common law, nor in your standing order that requires you to have a formal complaint.

A complainant has a right under your complaints process to have her complaint heard by the council, though in practice you make it very difficult for the public to exercise that right - I was only given a hearing in my eviction dispute seven months after you served me with the forfeiture - the first opportunity I was given to actually make my case, and of course once the council has decided something it never changes it mind.

Simon, have you tried to send a complaint to the council, perhaps care of Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera?

[Cognosco]

Simon, have you tried to send a complaint to the council, perhaps care of Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera?

Unless I am completely wrong the situation as I understand is:

Simon has to make an official complaint but is unable to make an official complaint because he has been declared vexatious.
If this is indeed the situation then I think it would explain to any doubters, if there are any, just how farcical the council has become.

Perhaps someone from the council will correct this if they think this is wrong and explain who needs to make the complaint and how regarding Allotmentgate?

[Simon Kirby]

Simon, have you tried to send a complaint to the council, perhaps care of Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera?

I think I need to do that, but I hope they remember that it was their idea.