Stroud Green Trees, morons Options

[JeffG]

That's not very helpful. Could you tell me what they said please, I don't have the patience to wade through some of the posts in this thread.

If you're too damned lazy to read the thread before commenting, then don't bother to post inaccurate replies.

Seeing as you can't be bothered I looked back myself, and someone did suggest a suitable punishment in post #8.

[GMR]

Ironic - this week's NWN reports a case where someone up before the bench for fighting was given a 'community sentence' - after 3 previous cautions. Perhaps we ought to put the spotlight on the magistrates who again are dispensing justice on our behalf.

I don’t think it is just the magistrates that we should focus on. We often hear police talk about how disgusted they are when they take somebody to court only for the courts to let them down or it is thrown out. Because of this the public then take it out on them - not the government or the magistrates, but them. The police are a powerful body and have a powerful police union behind them. If they are disgusted as they say they are and are fed up with the abuse they get then maybe as a powerful body they could stand up and be counted. Either that or we stay as we are; just going around and around in circles while decent and honourable people suffer the consequences of the authorities inactions. Isn’t it time to stop the talk and but our words, concerns into action? What made Blair’s government popular and voted in on a landslide was - among many other things - when he said ‘tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime’ and what has happened; it has got worse. The police have got more powers, but those powers seem to be focused in a different direction; not against the scum on our streets etc.

[GMR]

Two words.


Boot camp!

Couldn't agree more.

[Darren]

Ironic - this week's NWN reports a case where someone up before the bench for fighting was given a 'community sentence' - after 3 previous cautions. Perhaps we ought to put the spotlight on the magistrates who again are dispensing justice on our behalf.

Touch of Deja vu here

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/CrimeJusticeAn...trate/DG_071395

Very interesting bit

If you are employed, your employer is legally obliged to provide reasonable time off for magistrate duties. You will need to agree with your employer how you will manage any additional time away from work that you need.

[On the edge]

Touch of Deja vu here

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/CrimeJusticeAn...trate/DG_071395

Very interesting bit

Quite so. However if you are in a job role or profession which is involved in the administration of justice, you can't be selected which rules some of us out.

[On the edge]

I don’t think it is just the magistrates that we should focus on. We often hear police talk about how disgusted they are when they take somebody to court only for the courts to let them down or it is thrown out. Because of this the public then take it out on them - not the government or the magistrates, but them. The police are a powerful body and have a powerful police union behind them. If they are disgusted as they say they are and are fed up with the abuse they get then maybe as a powerful body they could stand up and be counted. Either that or we stay as we are; just going around and around in circles while decent and honourable people suffer the consequences of the authorities inactions. Isn’t it time to stop the talk and but our words, concerns into action? What made Blair’s government popular and voted in on a landslide was - among many other things - when he said ‘tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime’ and what has happened; it has got worse. The police have got more powers, but those powers seem to be focused in a different direction; not against the scum on our streets etc.

The Police may be a 'powerful body' - BUT (thank God) today they aren't the 'State Police'. They are simply charged with keeping the Queen's peace. In effect, really no more than a conduit - transporting wrong doers (those who can't keep the peace) to justice. I for one am very glad that this separation of powers still exists and that the Police, in broad terms, have no power to impose penalties as their own right. If they did have, suspect this site wouldn't exist and most of its contributors would be away from home 'missing'. Is that really what you want?

[Sarah]

Ironic - this week's NWN reports a case where someone up before the bench for fighting was given a 'community sentence' - after 3 previous cautions. Perhaps we ought to put the spotlight on the magistrates who again are dispensing justice on our behalf.

The Sentencing Guidelines Council is responsible for issuing sentencing guidelines for courts. It would seem from the wide variations in the severity of sentencing, that these guidelines are either being ignored or misinterpreted

[GMR]

The Police may be a 'powerful body' - BUT (thank God) today they aren't the 'State Police'. They are simply charged with keeping the Queen's peace. In effect, really no more than a conduit - transporting wrong doers (those who can't keep the peace) to justice. I for one am very glad that this separation of powers still exists and that the Police, in broad terms, have no power to impose penalties as their own right. If they did have, suspect this site wouldn't exist and most of its contributors would be away from home 'missing'. Is that really what you want?

I never asked for a police state, just that they protect us and deal with our problems; which they don’t seem to be doing at the present. Even Blair’s government said that they would be ‘tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime’ so by stating that they know that there is a problem; if not them then who? I don’t care who does what or why, what I care about is the mounting problems we’ve got with anti-social behaviour and rising crime in other areas and the lack of response to these problems from the authorities. It is all well and good you saying that you don’t want to live in a police state or they don’t have powers to do such and such but that doesn’t solve our problems. You also blame the magistrates‘ more than you do the police, but a lot of crime doesn’t even get that far; who is to blame for that?

[Sarah]

I never asked for a police state, just that they protect us and deal with our problems; which they don’t seem to be doing at the present. Even Blair’s government said that they would be ‘tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime’ so by stating that they know that there is a problem; if not them then who? I don’t care who does what or why, what I care about is the mounting problems we’ve got with anti-social behaviour and rising crime in other areas and the lack of response to these problems from the authorities. It is all well and good you saying that you don’t want to live in a police state or they don’t have powers to do such and such but that doesn’t solve our problems. You also blame the magistrates‘ more than you do the police, but a lot of crime doesn’t even get that far; who is to blame for that?

Maybe you could round up a posse.

[ossy1]

Strafin to clarify your point the police do not make the majority of charging decisions, this is also done by the CPS. When a case is investigated the evidence is presented to them and they decide on the appropriate charges. So your comment about police laying the correct charges is incorrect.

As for being given unofficial information yes it be can be looked into but it has to be official to form part of the evidence . No real action can be taken on unofficial evidence. That is not about having it on a plate but about the laws ofd evidence.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

The problem is that most people think that the LAW (not the Police) is an ***.
The only solution is to build more prisons (that means we will have to pay more tax) and the CPS needs to be more penal in pursuing 'minor' offences such as anti-social behaviour.

I would gladly pay a little more tax to sweep the streets claen of the Scum.

[Rose8]

No................ they need punishing.

Thats of course once the culprits are actually found. Which unfortunately has to be almost impossible unless someone witnessed it and reports it. Highly unlikely.

[GMR]

Thats of course once the culprits are actually found. Which unfortunately has to be almost impossible unless someone witnessed it and reports it. Highly unlikely.

But that is the problem Rose and what I've been banging on about; I've witnessed a crime in progress and could name the persons and I know other cases where people could name the culprits; the police never followed them through though.

[GMR]

The problem is that most people think that the LAW (not the Police) is an ***.
The only solution is to build more prisons (that means we will have to pay more tax) and the CPS needs to be more penal in pursuing 'minor' offences such as anti-social behaviour.

I would gladly pay a little more tax to sweep the streets claen of the Scum.

You get no argument from me.

[Bloggo]

You get no argument from me.

Me neither.

[On the edge]

Perhaps we need a thorough review and revision of the whole process - end to end. Strikes me there is a huge amount of buck passing. Police to Crown Prosecution to Judiciary to Sentencing council. So its all very well taking it out on the local copper - the Police management yes, the CPS and right up the line. These people are also public servants!

[Rose8]

But that is the problem Rose and what I've been banging on about; I've witnessed a crime in progress and could name the persons and I know other cases where people could name the culprits; the police never followed them through though.

Oh i see, i hadnt realised that. Well in that case there is something very wrong somewhere. Its difficult, when the police DO deal with 'incidents' the courts are extremely lenient on them, the punishment needs to be a deterrent and its NOT, boot camp (as mentioned earlier) would be one way to go.

I think parents need to be held more accountable, with fines (ok so they may not pay, i realise this is a whole can of worms etc), or a curfew on the child. Crikey, whatever we come with, it all costs money. Why dont parents who bring children into this world, simply teach right from wrong and not just allow THEIR children out to wander the streets, causing havoc!! Thinking about it ....... i just havent a CLUE WHAT to do or CAN be done. But there are parents out there who DO care, honestly !! I like to think i am one of them.

[Rose8]

Perhaps we need a thorough review and revision of the whole process - end to end. Strikes me there is a huge amount of buck passing. Police to Crown Prosecution to Judiciary to Sentencing council. So its all very well taking it out on the local copper - the Police management yes, the CPS and right up the line. These people are also public servants!

I agree.

[Bloggo]

Perhaps we need a thorough review and revision of the whole process - end to end. Strikes me there is a huge amount of buck passing. Police to Crown Prosecution to Judiciary to Sentencing council. So its all very well taking it out on the local copper - the Police management yes, the CPS and right up the line. These people are also public servants!

I believe there is just to much red-tape and procedural rubbish incantations involved in the whole process.
Case in point is the issue about shops selling Violent games and DVDs to kids which also have high sexual content. It looks like those that of already been taken to court and convicted will now be awarded compensation as there is a problem with the law being registered with the EU.
For Gods sake everyone knows its wrong to sell this sort of stuff to kids and they should be penalised regardless whether there is a minor issue with the procedure.
It's all just mumbo jumbo and the lawyers and solicitors are making stacks of cash out of it.
On the edge is right. It needs a full review.

[GMR]

Perhaps we need a thorough review and revision of the whole process - end to end. Strikes me there is a huge amount of buck passing. Police to Crown Prosecution to Judiciary to Sentencing council. So its all very well taking it out on the local copper - the Police management yes, the CPS and right up the line. These people are also public servants!

I am not saying it is right or wrong but the people take it out on the 'local copper' because the Police management, CPS and magistrates’ are invisible people. Coppers are solid entities that carry out their duties without thought or understanding but to do or die attitude. I know Ossy is going to come in and say that that is hard and unfair, and it is, but she often says or at least her colleagues say ‘we are just following instructions’ as if they are automatons without thought or feelings. Somebody has to put their head above the parapet and say ‘enough is enough’ and we need to do something. Staying as we are is not an option; I am sure Ossy will agree with me that the abuse she gets from the public is unacceptable; so let us do something about it. Stand up and be counted; that is including the police.