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Posted by: Bloggo Aug 26 2009, 09:34 AM

Here we have yet another demonstration of mindless moronic behaviour of the local yob community.
They are either setting light to things, spraying paint on them or destroying them.
When, oh when will someone do something about these d**kheads and give them a sentence that gives them some intense displeasure when and if they are caught.

Posted by: GMR Aug 26 2009, 09:38 AM

That is the problem and why they continue to get away with it. Nobody there to stop them, and if there was what would the police do? Give them a talking to, Asbo, a trip to the seaside? You might as well turn a blind eye; officials do or they can't be bothered. The easy option is to pick a crime that gets results; parking, speeding... etc.

Posted by: Bill1 Aug 26 2009, 10:16 AM

Probably the same morons who have been snapping off car aerials around that area again.

The trouble is these things can occur at anytime overnight and there is simply no financial justification for undercover surveillance work to catch the perpertrators in the act.

Where will they strike next and how the heck are the Police supposed to catch them?

Posted by: Bloggo Aug 26 2009, 10:22 AM

Yes Bill you're right but if there was a harsh deterrent if and when they are caught then perhaps they wouldn't do it.
The system encourages this sought of mindless vandalism. There needs to be some harsh justice metered out when the opportunity arises to send out a message that we wont tolerate this behaviour.

Posted by: Bill1 Aug 26 2009, 10:26 AM

I agree, it's just the catching them that's difficult.

I am one of the poor sods who has had his aerial stolen this year, twice!

I take mine off every night now, which shouldn't be neccessary, but there you go.

Posted by: Bloggo Aug 26 2009, 10:36 AM

Yes, it's easy to turn a blind eye if you have not been a victim of this c**p but I like you have and it is really p***ing me off.

Posted by: user23 Aug 26 2009, 05:25 PM

What sort of harsh deterrent?

Posted by: Iommi Aug 26 2009, 05:30 PM

The Birch!

Posted by: ossy1 Aug 26 2009, 06:22 PM

Clearly the things I said in other posts made no difference to you what so ever. The police are not responsible for the out come of a case, that is down to the courts and the CPS. Do you think it is not frustrating for us to put alot of time and effort into cases for them to be dropped at court etc.

Police officers do not deal with parking tickets unless someone reports an obstruction. That's what you have the council wardens and PCSO's for. Police officers do not pick what crime they deal with, they deal with what people report. It would be lovely to catch these idiots I would happily march them into custody for you but there is something called evidence which is required.
This sort of behaviour could probably be traced back to the up bringing im afraid!

Posted by: JeffG Aug 26 2009, 07:10 PM

Yes, it all comes down to the parents. And probably the parents' parents as well.

Posted by: user23 Aug 26 2009, 07:21 PM

Some people don't want to listen to or understand how the systems works.

They're more concerned with how they feel unfairly treated by not being able to do what they want, like driving the speed they wish or parking where they like.

For me, if I had a choice between prosecuting those vandalising trees or speeding I'd always choose the latter as it's more likely to lead to serious injury or death.

Posted by: GMR Aug 26 2009, 07:27 PM

Clearly the things I said in other posts made no difference to you my friend. Throwing spanners in the works has nothing to do with you but getting people motivated to reply. However, I agree that the police are not at fault when it comes pushing the case to the next level... nevertheless, I know from experience that because of this they are frustrated; that frustration should be channelled at whoever makes the stupid decisions to go against the polices recommendations. I do not accept that once the police have done their part that it is the end of it. People take their anger out at the police, as you know; channel that hostility by taking your concerns to a higher level; otherwise you are saying that is it and TOUGH!! Sorry, but I don’t accept that. In America you vote for your local senior police officer and the public wouldn't accept the excuses you give and he would be voted out; if a senior officer had been voted in by the public (which, I might add the Tory's want to do) we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.



Yes I do know....



Actually that is not true; I reported a crime in progress at the beginning of the year and nobody came out... there has been many other cases like this. I made an official complaint but it was just swept under the carpet.



You’ve had plenty of evidence and never pursued it. I can name many cases for you.



I agree but that doesn’t help ordinary citizens. Ideas what the causes are, are in abundance; what isn’t is positive action and an end result.

Posted by: GMR Aug 26 2009, 07:28 PM

Of course it does, but saying that isn't going to achieve anything; what will achieve anything is if the police or somebody psychically does something about it.

Posted by: ossy1 Aug 26 2009, 07:40 PM

Is that your understanding of evidence or te law's understanding of evidence. Whilst I don't disbelieve what you say. Most people I come across who think they have evidence do not have what is refered to as admissable evidence. You seem like an intelligent sort of person so I guess you know what that means.

example: I know who damaged the tree's
Me. "who
Mr SMITH
Me. excellent are you prepared to provide a statement and go to court?
Oh no I dont want to do that, and I dont want anyone to know I told you.

This is inabmissable evidence, and whilst we try our best to deal with cases by other means sometimes you just can't without that evidence.

Posted by: JeffG Aug 26 2009, 07:52 PM

Like Mystic Meg, you mean? Sorry - couldn't resist (as they say).

Posted by: GMR Aug 26 2009, 07:53 PM

Hi ossy,

Which pit are you referring to? When I said I was witness to a crime in progress?

If you point me to what you are referring to I'll explain.

Posted by: Newbury Expat Aug 26 2009, 08:03 PM

Very true and it's a sad reality. People are very hesitant to bear witness to thugs for fear of becoming victims themselves. And many will no doubt feel that even if they do provide evidence then the punishment will not be worth the risk of coming forward.

A question with regards to the scenario you lay out. Does it help the police to collect such information so you can identify who are persistant trouble makers even if they can't be prosecuted for their prior offences? I'm sure you and your colleagues know many of the local thugs, but does this help you police the area? Or just a cause of frustration because you can't touch the buggers?

Posted by: ossy1 Aug 26 2009, 08:08 PM

What ever you were refering to when talking about having evidence.

As for your complaint being swept under the carpert, I do not deal with complaints but as I understand there is a rather strict process for dealing complaints. The process obviously starts at the lowest level, the outcome of the complaint is discussed with the complainant. I you are not satisfied with that result then you can proceed further. Having known a few people that have been on the receiving end of complaint I can assure you they are never dealt with by way of sweeping under the carpet!!

Posted by: ossy1 Aug 26 2009, 08:17 PM

All information helps, it gives a picture of whats going on out there. We always encourage people to report things, even if it's just anon through crime stoppers. It gives an idea of where to go and who to look for when crimes are reported. I won't say to much I may be in dangerous of assisting an offender!!!

Posted by: On the edge Aug 26 2009, 08:26 PM

Actually, even if at first glance many would see this as provocative, but its spot on. Trees can and do grow new limbs! There are some places that use planting to 'absorb' vandalisim. A park area which just contains big shrubs and bushes - do what you like, it will all grow back. Race round the town and hit someone - unfortunately they won't grow back.

Posted by: GMR Aug 26 2009, 08:26 PM

OK, got you now. A house near where I lived was tormented by kids (about 18 years old; girls and boys) night after night. Finally they contacted the police, gave thir evidence the police went away and they never heard anymore. I recently talked to the couple they are leaving the area because they can’t take the abuse. I am secretary of our local association and the NAG committee so I can give you a lot more stories.



My complaint was dealt with the highest level at Newbury Station. I was told that the police who didn’t deal with my complaint in a proper manner was talked to and it was decided that the incident wouldn’t be take further (the officers came from Reading). I did get an apology and that was it. It was swept under the carpet; trust me. As for the kids I saw doing the damage; no action was taken against them. The 3 kids involved are notorious where I live; house burglary's, damage etc. They've been doing it for years. One them a few years ago threw a stone through my window... he just got a talking to.

Posted by: Rose8 Aug 26 2009, 08:41 PM

HOW BLOODY SAD ...... these mindless idiots, poor trees !!!!!!!!!!!!! These 'kids' need to GROW UP !!

Posted by: GMR Aug 26 2009, 08:42 PM

No................ they need punishing.

Posted by: user23 Aug 26 2009, 09:12 PM

No one's said how they should be punished.

Posted by: JeffG Aug 26 2009, 09:13 PM

Yes they have.

Posted by: user23 Aug 26 2009, 09:17 PM

That's not very helpful. Could you tell me what they said please, I don't have the patience to wade through some of the posts in this thread.

Posted by: Sarah Aug 26 2009, 09:20 PM

Should you be making that sort of comment then?

Posted by: user23 Aug 26 2009, 09:27 PM

I'm just asking what was said

Posted by: Iommi Aug 26 2009, 09:29 PM

OK, but do you think there should be any action beyond that all ready in place?

I'm not sure there is anything practical that can be done now that would have an immediate affect. Sure, some of us can 'fantasise' about birching the culprits, but that ain't going to happen.

Posted by: Strafin Aug 26 2009, 09:32 PM

Posted by: Iommi Aug 26 2009, 09:44 PM

Strafin, I wish you'd quote properly!

I'm not saying this is a fair point, but it is a good one. Many people strongly feel this about the police.

Posted by: GMR Aug 26 2009, 09:46 PM

That’s one for the books; before I could reply to User’s question to me everybody jumps in and answers him. Glad to see everybody's on the ball; that’s what I a pay you lot for after all

Posted by: GMR Aug 26 2009, 09:49 PM

It is the impression you get from the police (fair or not) and from the experience of some a very good impression.

Posted by: spartacus Aug 26 2009, 10:12 PM

How to get the police to take an interest? All it takes is someone to post a few flyers around the area. Something along the lines of

Then sit back and see if the boys in blue are out patrolling for a while.....

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Aug 27 2009, 08:03 AM

The funny thing is it might come to that. Now wheres Coombe Gibbit again??

Posted by: Bloggo Aug 27 2009, 08:13 AM

There are umpteen ways that they can be punished and with a little thought I guess you might come up with something appropriate too but I guess you would rather have someone make a more provocative suggestion so that you can be disapproving.

The problem is that when and if they get caught they will get a reprimand of some kind that will have zero affect on them so they will do it or something similar again.
Is there something wrong with the idea that the deterent should be meaningful and memerable to the yobs?

Posted by: Bloggo Aug 27 2009, 08:16 AM

The Police need to engage with the public more. They need to be seen on foot around the Town and the Rural areas.
Their presence on the streets will help deter minor crime and vandalism from young offenders .

Posted by: On the edge Aug 27 2009, 08:36 AM

Ironic - this week's NWN reports a case where someone up before the bench for fighting was given a 'community sentence' - after 3 previous cautions. Perhaps we ought to put the spotlight on the magistrates who again are dispensing justice on our behalf.

Posted by: Bill1 Aug 27 2009, 08:43 AM

Two words.


Boot camp!

Posted by: Bloggo Aug 27 2009, 08:55 AM

Yes, they seem to have lost touch with reality. Putting violent criminals back on the streets with just a warning after repeated offences is a threat to the wellbeing of the rest of us.
What is going on here. Why is this being allowed?

Posted by: JeffG Aug 27 2009, 09:42 AM

If you're too damned lazy to read the thread before commenting, then don't bother to post inaccurate replies.

Seeing as you can't be bothered I looked back myself, and someone did suggest a suitable punishment in post #8.

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 09:43 AM

I don’t think it is just the magistrates that we should focus on. We often hear police talk about how disgusted they are when they take somebody to court only for the courts to let them down or it is thrown out. Because of this the public then take it out on them - not the government or the magistrates, but them. The police are a powerful body and have a powerful police union behind them. If they are disgusted as they say they are and are fed up with the abuse they get then maybe as a powerful body they could stand up and be counted. Either that or we stay as we are; just going around and around in circles while decent and honourable people suffer the consequences of the authorities inactions. Isn’t it time to stop the talk and but our words, concerns into action? What made Blair’s government popular and voted in on a landslide was - among many other things - when he said ‘tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime’ and what has happened; it has got worse. The police have got more powers, but those powers seem to be focused in a different direction; not against the scum on our streets etc.

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 09:44 AM

Couldn't agree more.

Posted by: Darren Aug 27 2009, 09:50 AM

Touch of Deja vu here

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/CrimeJusticeAndTheLaw/Becomingamagistrate/DG_071395

Very interesting bit

Posted by: On the edge Aug 27 2009, 10:33 AM

Quite so. However if you are in a job role or profession which is involved in the administration of justice, you can't be selected which rules some of us out.

Posted by: On the edge Aug 27 2009, 10:38 AM

The Police may be a 'powerful body' - BUT (thank God) today they aren't the 'State Police'. They are simply charged with keeping the Queen's peace. In effect, really no more than a conduit - transporting wrong doers (those who can't keep the peace) to justice. I for one am very glad that this separation of powers still exists and that the Police, in broad terms, have no power to impose penalties as their own right. If they did have, suspect this site wouldn't exist and most of its contributors would be away from home 'missing'. Is that really what you want?

Posted by: Sarah Aug 27 2009, 10:47 AM

The Sentencing Guidelines Council is responsible for issuing sentencing guidelines for courts. It would seem from the wide variations in the severity of sentencing, that these guidelines are either being ignored or misinterpreted

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 10:49 AM

I never asked for a police state, just that they protect us and deal with our problems; which they don’t seem to be doing at the present. Even Blair’s government said that they would be ‘tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime’ so by stating that they know that there is a problem; if not them then who? I don’t care who does what or why, what I care about is the mounting problems we’ve got with anti-social behaviour and rising crime in other areas and the lack of response to these problems from the authorities. It is all well and good you saying that you don’t want to live in a police state or they don’t have powers to do such and such but that doesn’t solve our problems. You also blame the magistrates‘ more than you do the police, but a lot of crime doesn’t even get that far; who is to blame for that?

Posted by: Sarah Aug 27 2009, 11:11 AM

Maybe you could round up a posse.

Posted by: ossy1 Aug 27 2009, 11:32 AM

Strafin to clarify your point the police do not make the majority of charging decisions, this is also done by the CPS. When a case is investigated the evidence is presented to them and they decide on the appropriate charges. So your comment about police laying the correct charges is incorrect.

As for being given unofficial information yes it be can be looked into but it has to be official to form part of the evidence . No real action can be taken on unofficial evidence. That is not about having it on a plate but about the laws ofd evidence.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Aug 27 2009, 02:06 PM

The problem is that most people think that the LAW (not the Police) is an ***.
The only solution is to build more prisons (that means we will have to pay more tax) and the CPS needs to be more penal in pursuing 'minor' offences such as anti-social behaviour.

I would gladly pay a little more tax to sweep the streets claen of the Scum.

Posted by: Rose8 Aug 27 2009, 02:13 PM

Thats of course once the culprits are actually found. Which unfortunately has to be almost impossible unless someone witnessed it and reports it. Highly unlikely.

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 02:16 PM

But that is the problem Rose and what I've been banging on about; I've witnessed a crime in progress and could name the persons and I know other cases where people could name the culprits; the police never followed them through though.

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 02:17 PM

You get no argument from me.

Posted by: Bloggo Aug 27 2009, 02:25 PM

Me neither.

Posted by: On the edge Aug 27 2009, 02:41 PM

Perhaps we need a thorough review and revision of the whole process - end to end. Strikes me there is a huge amount of buck passing. Police to Crown Prosecution to Judiciary to Sentencing council. So its all very well taking it out on the local copper - the Police management yes, the CPS and right up the line. These people are also public servants!

Posted by: Rose8 Aug 27 2009, 02:43 PM

Oh i see, i hadnt realised that. Well in that case there is something very wrong somewhere. Its difficult, when the police DO deal with 'incidents' the courts are extremely lenient on them, the punishment needs to be a deterrent and its NOT, boot camp (as mentioned earlier) would be one way to go.

I think parents need to be held more accountable, with fines (ok so they may not pay, i realise this is a whole can of worms etc), or a curfew on the child. Crikey, whatever we come with, it all costs money. Why dont parents who bring children into this world, simply teach right from wrong and not just allow THEIR children out to wander the streets, causing havoc!! Thinking about it ....... i just havent a CLUE WHAT to do or CAN be done. But there are parents out there who DO care, honestly !! I like to think i am one of them.

Posted by: Rose8 Aug 27 2009, 02:47 PM

I agree.

Posted by: Bloggo Aug 27 2009, 02:51 PM

I believe there is just to much red-tape and procedural rubbish incantations involved in the whole process.
Case in point is the issue about shops selling Violent games and DVDs to kids which also have high sexual content. It looks like those that of already been taken to court and convicted will now be awarded compensation as there is a problem with the law being registered with the EU.
For Gods sake everyone knows its wrong to sell this sort of stuff to kids and they should be penalised regardless whether there is a minor issue with the procedure.
It's all just mumbo jumbo and the lawyers and solicitors are making stacks of cash out of it.
On the edge is right. It needs a full review.

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 03:22 PM

I am not saying it is right or wrong but the people take it out on the 'local copper' because the Police management, CPS and magistrates’ are invisible people. Coppers are solid entities that carry out their duties without thought or understanding but to do or die attitude. I know Ossy is going to come in and say that that is hard and unfair, and it is, but she often says or at least her colleagues say ‘we are just following instructions’ as if they are automatons without thought or feelings. Somebody has to put their head above the parapet and say ‘enough is enough’ and we need to do something. Staying as we are is not an option; I am sure Ossy will agree with me that the abuse she gets from the public is unacceptable; so let us do something about it. Stand up and be counted; that is including the police.

Posted by: Chesapeake Aug 27 2009, 03:25 PM

Oh for Heaven's sake GMR change the record!

A little bit of information can be a REALLY dangerous thing. You have not got enough knowledge of the police systems, workloads, priority criteria and the laws that they have to take into consideration before they take any action against any body no matter how open and shut you think the case should be to keep harping on about the same stuff time after time!

Yes, yes, yes I know that you are/have been part of your local NAG and you were also part of your Tenants Association but that does not give you an in depth knowledge of the law and the way it works. If you are or were a Barrister specialising in criminal law then I am extremely disappointed at your lack of recall when it comes to Criminal Law in the UK.

You say that you could name the person committing the crime and you know of others who also could name the culprit in a crime. But could the defense argue that your evidence could not satisfy the intricate rules that are required in order to procure a guilty result. Do you know anything about ADVOKATE? The Police do. They have to know and follow all sorts of legal procedures. You are just, I am afraid, a Barrack-Room Lawyer who expects miracles. If you do know about ADVOKATE are you sure that you could saitisfy all of it? I doubt it.

Yes there are some police officers who do not do their job to the best of their ability 100% of the time. Who does? I am sure there are those who do not do their job to the best of their ability very often. But that's life. It happens, as I have said before, in all sorts of jobs at all levels.

In the main the police do a fantastic job with VERY limited resources. They get abused, verbally and physically nearly every day. They take the abuse because they joined "The Job" to uphold the Queen's laws and also because they want to make a difference. They don't sit in the comfort of their homes whinging on about crime. They go out there, every day, hammering away, trying to please all and sundry. And when they can't they don't give up and moan they keep on trying.

I am one of those who is totally in debt to the police for the jobs that they do. I am also one of the few that will give credit to the police for what they do and voice that credit to others.

As I said, PLEASE change the record!

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 03:28 PM

Exactly Bloggo it is bureaucratic bull and none of this does anything to help or protect the public. The shop has committed a crime and they should suffer the consequences.... irrespective of what the law says. The law was changed in Germany in the 30's so that the police could persecute the Jews; does that then make it right? Does the law strand above right and wrong and common sense? In Afghanistan they want to pass a law so that it is ok for husbands to rape their wives.... oh, good! That makes it acceptable because the law is on their side.

Posted by: Sarah Aug 27 2009, 03:41 PM

That is probably the only way to solve the problem. Far too often, the general public seem to take their frustrations with the judicial system, out on the body in the front line, namely the Police. We tend to forget their hands are tied in many cases, but they are any easy target. I notice many topics, on a variety of subjects, often turn to criticism of the Police Force, unfairly in my view.

Posted by: Chesapeake Aug 27 2009, 04:02 PM

Sarah, I think that you and I would get on very well if we knew each other. We seem to have the same views on a lot of things and once again I would like to metaphorically shake you by the hand.

Posted by: user23 Aug 27 2009, 04:46 PM

Very true. Our prisons are bulging and clearly those who say we should get even tougher on crime and blame the Police for not doing so, don't know what they're talking about. Clearly in some cases, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Posted by: JeffG Aug 27 2009, 04:46 PM

Re: ADVOKATE, I Googled it and found http://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5223. Very interesting. I've learnt something today.

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 07:26 PM

Obviously you don’t appreciate good music.




Maybe we need to hark over the same stuff so it will gets through. Actually I do understand the police system; and here lies the problem. The system needs changing and if you knew anything about the police force you would also know that the police want things changed to a simpler format. Knowing something inside out and seeing how it works doesn’t make it right my friend. I know how the Nazi system works inside out and many other systems; does that equate to accept?




And how does that precisely change anything; I’ll repeat what I said above. Knowing a system inside out doesn’t change it and we need change. Look around you and you will see people not happy with the system and there are people out there who know the system a bit better than you and they keep banging on about changing it. That is all I am doing. Would you prefer I kept my mouth shut and we kept the status quo?





Oh, so you are saying... what? Because it is complicated we do nothing? Also; we often hear about cases that the police decide to drop because of such-and-such a reason but other people – who are more knowledgeable – have said that the police could have took it further.




You are probably right; you are probably right that I can’t ‘satifisfy’ all of it completely.... but does that make it right, should people then have to suffer... what you are saying is that they can’t get it right under the current system so we just accept it.... sorry I don’t accept that and don’t agree.


Yes I do know what ADVOKATE means.




True; but shouldn’t we try to eradicate the worst instead of just accepting it?





Then we must make sure that they get better resources and they are paid to do a fantastic job... I am not moaning about that, but where they are not and where people are suffering. You seem to being saying ‘they are doing a good job in most instances so accept the situation as it stands.’
Sorry, but there are millions out there who will not agree; especially those that suffer and are suffering.



I am sure individually they do a good job... but that isn’t the problem. As you stated earlier they lack resources and there are other elements why things are going against them; so let’s change it and not accept it.

I think you need to change the record my friend; I do know what it entails and how complicated things are; but that doesn’t mean we accept it and just allow people to suffer while the majority of the police do a brilliant job.

What are you saying? That people like me should keep our mouth shut and let ordinary people be persecuted in silence because they don’t ‘really understand the full facts’? That is not an acceptable defence why we should leave things alone.

All the best my friend,

Glenn

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 27 2009, 08:14 PM

Can I ask, what are you doing to change the system and give us more resources, I'd love to know??? I don't think that Chesapeake is saying to accept it and allow people to suffer, doesn't read that way at all, well to me anyway.

I note you are a member of a NAG, have you told the Police rep's on that committee what you think of them and their kind? I am sure you will say that you have and to their face, why wouldn't you???

And perhaps you are just the person to go on a patrol with your local bobbies (as mentioned before), I hope it's when I'm on duty as I want to be there to see your expression and to hear your comments after the shift. oh go on, please!!!!

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 08:44 PM

You can ask me anything you want my friend.




Oh, sorry... I seem to have missed something here; it is up to me to give you your ‘resources’ otherwise I should shut up and we keep the status quo. I didn’t realise it worked that way. Sorry of my ignorance.



Well the way I read it is she is saying ‘do I realise how complicated and how much red tape there is and what it takes to prosecute somebody; and if I don’t know then I should and be content with what we’ve got... oh, and the police work very hard and get a lot of abuse which they don’t deserve... So I should back off and accept the status quo and the suffering out there is par for the course. I think that sums it up.




Put it this way; I have actually said that and I’ve got a bollocking for expressing what I said in a certain manner. On top of that I got threatened to be thrown off the NAG committee if I should express my thoughts/ concerns again; ‘the NAG wasn’t the time or place’ the Chairman said. I don’t just express myself in here... I speak my mind to whoever is listening.... here lies the problem. Just a matter of interest when I was threatened with removal for expressing myself it was a police officer who actually stuck up for me, which insured that I stayed. I hope that answers your question?



As a member of the local association and and NAG committee I’ve been on patrols with the police. And I am also happy to take you up on your offer... if it is an offer? What I say on here I say to your face; while we are on the subject. I seem to be the only one (ok, maybe there are others) who doesn’t hide behind aliases and people know my full name. My blogs are available for inspection and I often write in the Newbury Weekly News stating my points of view (two weeks ago I had a letter in the NWN about traffic wardens... you might have seen it?). Can you say the same? Can you and your other friends, who criticise me and speak with ‘authority’ say the same? Are you really police officer; maybe you could give us your badge numbers? What are you scared off? That is why I haven’t hid under an alias because I will say to your face what I say on here. You won’t; you hide behind an alias? Why?

It is a shame that so many can be so brave behind an alias.

Posted by: Strafin Aug 27 2009, 08:54 PM

Well I stand corrected. I find that very interesting actually as I have been led to believe differently, and I apologise for I was wrong.

Posted by: Iommi Aug 27 2009, 09:02 PM

I presume the Crown Prosecution Service are the law's version of the NHS's National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence?

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 27 2009, 09:09 PM

Firstly, I do not have a badge number.......I have a shoulder number, and no I won't give it out on here. That's for other reasons which, as you know the 'job', I am sure I don't have to explain further. Believe me I don't hide behind anything, just didn't want to call myself anything else,simple really. I am glad you have been on patrol with us, but it doesn't seem to have changed your views at all as far as I can see. Can you tell me what kinds of things your were a party to on these patrols, how did the Officers deal with the situations in your view, what was the level of abuse/alcohol and violence involved, were you shocked by this? Your comments please.....

Posted by: Sarah Aug 27 2009, 09:12 PM

I think that's The Sentencing Guidelines Council, isn't the CPS the body that decides if a case has enough evidence to go to court, or rather if they have a chance of successfully convicting.

Posted by: Sarah Aug 27 2009, 09:19 PM

Sorry Iommi, think I misunderstood that and my post doesn't really make sense.

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 09:32 PM

You are asking a lot and not giving anything in return; I am prepared to give you police officers names who will back up anything I’ve said on these boards. I have not, and will not lie. As I said to you; I am easy traceable and I will say to your face what I say on here.

On the patrol I found the police very good and professional.

One of the senior police officer who was on the NAG committee awhile back was – I think I am correct with his first name – Martin Edwards (now senior officer in Oxford) and I said to him that individually you can’t fault the loyalty and dedication of the individual police person; however the problem I have is with the police collectively. If you are a police officer you will know Martin Edwards. He often comes to Newbury and I often chat with him when he is here. If you like to give me your details in a private PM I’ll get him to confirm what I’ve said. Or I can give you names of police that are stationed in Newbury who will confirm what I’ve said.

Sorry... I should have said epaulette number... not shoulder number actually... the only thing is police officers don’t call them shoulder number but epaulette numbers; curious you should say ‘shoulder number.’

I am always shocked by the way the police are abused; and here lies the problem. They shouldn’t have to be treated in that manner. What are you doing, as an officer, to deal with this and more to the point what are your bosses doing to deal with this problem?

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 10:06 PM

I was being sarcastic when I used the word 'ignorance'.

Whether it is a bigger agenda or not that is no excuse.


I don't think you are a police officer because you are too sarcastic and abusive. Send me your number so I can check you out? Send it to me by PM. You are writing in the name of the police then we should have a right to know who you are.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 27 2009, 10:15 PM

I did not say that you had lied, want to make that completely clear. Also will not PM you my details, as per my last post


Err, I have never heard the term 'epaulette number' used, that did make me smile, perhaps we can ask Ossy1 if the term 'shoulder number' is used....???? When I started with the Police they used to be called 'collar numbers', harking back to the days when Officers wore high necked tunics and their number was on the collar. This has now changed to 'shoulder number' because, wait for it, they are now worn on the shoulder, on epaulettes (yes I know where epaulettes are worn)....anyway small point but your inference that I said this because I am not a Police Officer is quite frankly absurd. Surely you would have heard the term 'shoulder number' whilst on patrol....... and you have said that the Police you were with were ' very good and professional' but you haven't said what they did to make you think that and under what conditions they did so......

Unfortunately, it seems that the society we now live in has changed its' values since I first joined and that is very noticeable when I am out on the street. This in turn means an eroding of respect for Police and others. All I can say is that I deal with any abuse aimed at me or others robustly.

Posted by: spartacus Aug 27 2009, 10:16 PM

A bit like all the criticism of WBC maybe?

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 27 2009, 10:19 PM

So you can be sarcastic, but I can't.....strange values. Please let me know where I have been abusive (haven't we been here before somewhere????)

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 27 2009, 10:29 PM

Also, your requests for my details now seem to have escalated to demands.....I am not on here in an official capacity only that of an experienced and informed professional who happens to be able to put a counter argument forward

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 10:29 PM

Actually we are probably closer in thought/ agreement than you might realise. You know my views and the way things are; do you disagree with them? I agree you are in an awkward position but don’t you agree that there needs changes? Don’t you agree that the current situation cannot stay as it is? Whether the CPS or courts are to blame for the status quo isn’t it unacceptable?

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 10:34 PM

The answer to your question is no; ok, that may sound like I am being a hypocrite, but they say the police are always on duty. You and your friend have stated that you are both police officers and are on here representing the police (officially or unofficially) and in that case I would expect you to be above sarcasm. The police I know would never be sarcastic; on or off duty.... but then I probably know the wrong sort of police officer

Posted by: Iommi Aug 27 2009, 10:38 PM

EVERYONE knows the Police are some of the sarkiest people we meet!!!

In seriousness, although I have little exposure to the old bill, I do feel they seem to be softer than 'when I were a lad'. They seem to put up with a lot more abuse than they used to.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 27 2009, 10:39 PM

So you can throw all you like at me but I can't throw it back just because of the job I do, sorry that isn't going to work. It would limit our participation on this forum as it would be a one way street

I have never said I am here representing the Police, just that I can show you the other side of the coin.

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 10:40 PM

First of all it is a request and not a demand.... secondly how do we know you are a police officer? You can easily check me out to see if what I've said is true... unfortunately we can't with you. I've spoken to enough people on forums who claim to be FBI, MI5, the PM, God himself... we've even got Spartacus on here... no doubt he's the original and as for Iommi; he will confirm he is the lead guitarist with Black Sabbath.... But what about you?

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 10:42 PM

You can say what you want to me; i was joking.

Be the way; please answer the other questions i have put to you on here.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 27 2009, 10:49 PM

I doubt my thoughts are close to yours. However I do not live in utopia and do understand that there will always be problems with any process or system (I'm sure there are where you work too???). The ststus quo we have at the moment will not change at the sweep of a hand and will require years of work and policy change, something for those in the political echelons I think.

Posted by: spartacus Aug 27 2009, 10:49 PM

I AM SPARTACUS!!! (and so is my wife...)
BTW I've gone to seed a little of late


You can be anyone you want to be when you're on the ethernet.....

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 27 2009, 10:51 PM

The perceived 'softness' comes from law changes and also from changes in society. We have Public Order laws to enable us to arrest offenders for such abuse, and we do use them, frequently

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 10:58 PM

Well... I agree with what you say here. However, while the wheels grind slowly on people are suffering and I find this unacceptable. We blame this on bureaucracy or whatever you want to call it; as if that is the answer and we have to live with it. If everybody stood up to be counted and said this situation is acceptable then maybe we might get something done. Blair came to power on the slogan 'tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime' and nothing happened... but people continue to suffer. I've been a constant victim of anti-social behaviour. I've given the police information and I've had witness to back me up; but nothing. The police refused to take the matter further.... the kids concerned continue to rob houses, abuse people, but they can't do anything; and other people in other-ways have suffered as well. But you expect us to be sympathetic with your blight. It doesn't actually work like that my friend. You are supposed to be there to protect us; the innocent... the victims.

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 10:59 PM

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 11:00 PM

And what happens when you've arrested them?

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 11:12 PM

Yes I know.... even the police

Posted by: Iommi Aug 27 2009, 11:13 PM

Well I understand that more people are in gaol now than ever before and Labour put through even more laws. Blair and Brown have gaoled 30% more people than was the case in 1997.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/uk_prisons_in_the_uk/html/1.stm

Apparently, there are 15,000 more police officers now than when labour came to power.

Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jul/23/police-numbers-record-level-johnson

A cause of crime is poverty and the government has pumped unprecedented amounts of money in the welfare state; to help relieve child poverty and to improve the health of the nation.

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 11:19 PM

If records can be believed. As Disraeli said "there are lies, **** lies and statistics." The opposition have accused them of fiddling the statistics. But even if they are to be believed we still have a problem... and a serious one. And people are suffering because of it. Build more prisons is one answer.

Just a matter of interest; this government are releasing a lot of them well before their time is up... and they are going back into society to recommit crime and even murder.

Posted by: Iommi Aug 27 2009, 11:24 PM

But it is all you and I have got.


That's fine, but they should prove it, it is their duty in opposition.


That might be, but I don't think you can justifiably say they have done nothing. I hesitate to use the term, 'change the record', but I am tempted!

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 11:30 PM

In some areas I agree the government have done some things.... in other areas they are lacking.

We should always question.... never stop questioning.

Posted by: Iommi Aug 27 2009, 11:43 PM

Of course, there is always a story behind a story.

In the 80s, Thatcher wanted to give money back to tax payers so that they might help themselves and at the same time reduce social services, it didn't really work. Labour have tried the opposite and it appears not to be working either.

The biggest difference that can be made is for you and I to stop expecting MPs, Police, etc, to do everything, we must come together as a community and show yobs ourselves that we don't want this nonsense. Communities must show that they care.

Another effect of modern Britain, is that we have also gone soft. We have all bought or been given our houses and now expect a better quality of life. Our families now live all over the place. Where once we were happy to hear Jimmy Saville blasting out from the neighbour's kitchen on a sunny summer's Sunday morning (while the dinner was roasting), we now call noise abatement.

Posted by: GMR Aug 27 2009, 11:59 PM

I couldn't agree with you more and I do play my part where i can. I've often put my head above the parapet and I've often been shot at.


Anyway; I am off to bed... I am sure this discussion will run and run. It has been interesting debating with you Anon, Ozzy etc. Whoever is right or wrong we can't do anything about it as individuals... only collectively can we do something.

Good night my friend and sleep well.

Posted by: On the edge Aug 28 2009, 07:19 AM

Spot on. We can actually start by sticking two fingers up at the media hype and the trendy Wendies who cause so much grief at demonstrations. For instance, the amount of stick the Police got in London when they tried to keep order - yes, educated or not the demonstrators were acting worse than football hooligans or young yobbos damaging trees. Lets actually support the Police doing this - which is really what we are asking for here. Oh yes, I know some 'dear old chap' died who we'd see as an old drunk littering the streets in Newbury. Or of course, the pregnant young girl with strong priciples, when really a self opinionated abusive yobbette who thinks screaming at people inches from their face acceptable. As GMT says about stats, so applies to photography. Any idiot can make pictures look how they want, takes bigger idiots to believe them. Can't have it both ways folks.

Posted by: user23 Aug 28 2009, 07:25 AM

As you suggest, no one here is writing in any sort of official capacity and as far as I'm aware no one in any public office or working for any company actually puts any stock into what is said on boards such as these, any more than tittle tattle they might overhear on the street. If he has any complaints about the Police or any other public or private organisation he should take them up through the appropriate channels.

Having said that there seems to be an increasing amount of sensible and well thought out viewpoints on this board that I enjoy reading.

Posted by: Bloggo Aug 28 2009, 08:25 AM

Well said mate. There is a lot of truth and common sense in your post.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 09:25 AM

I agree....

In the case of the pregnant girl should put herself in that position.

Posted by: ossy1 Aug 28 2009, 09:45 AM

Sorry GMR I have never heard the term epaulette number???? most officers can't say eppaulette. It is definatly shoulder number of collar number.

Posted by: ossy1 Aug 28 2009, 09:50 AM

Yes we have with me I beleive. It seems that views from the other side of the fence are not as welcome as is initially made out....

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 09:55 AM

You can't be selective in what you read; I didn't say I was joking and I do welcome your input... it makes a nice debate. I have no problem with you using sarcasm... if that is what you wish

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 09:56 AM

Ok, I probably hang around with the wrong sort of police officers.

Posted by: ossy1 Aug 28 2009, 10:02 AM

Your request for Anon2 details so you can "check him out" is not really in the spirit of internet forum's. To be honest it makes me feel very uneasy about giving my opinion now, that and the comment about never being off duty make me wonder that if I say something you don't like you will be off down the nick to make a complaint!!!

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 10:13 AM

Anon questioned, or seemed to question, my validity and I said I didn't hid behind aliases. Anything I say I would say to your face.

You seem to worry that I or somebody might go to the police and check you out? If you are legitimate then what are you scared of? There seems to be something fishy here.

As for police being on duty; they are always on duty and represent the police every time they open their mouth. In fact you've often stated, or Anon has often stated, that you are putting their side up. If you are honest and legitimate then you've got nothing to worry about. If you are impersonating a police officer then that is a different matter.

Posted by: Sarah Aug 28 2009, 10:21 AM

I wish you'd make up your mind as to exactly what you do want.

It makes no difference whether or not Anon and Ossy are police officers, their opinions are just as valid as yours. If they are police officers, their opinions are probably better informed on police matters than yours.

I think you should stop harping on, and just treat their posts as those of off-duty officers.

Posted by: ossy1 Aug 28 2009, 10:26 AM

There is nothing fishy I just don't understand why someone would based upon an interent forum. Why would you be so concerned?

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 10:27 AM

Actually it does matter because they both have stated they are police officers... and yes I agree both their opinions are valid. They could have easily come on here and gave their opinions without saying that they were officers of the law.

It was Anon who questioned my validity. We wouldn't have gone down that area if he wouldn't have questioned me.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 10:30 AM

I'm not sure you hang out with any Police Officers, especially if they use the wrong terms all the time!!! Have you checked out their validity????

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 10:31 AM

A lot of people come on forums and say they are such and such a person when they are not. Why do we have to hide under names if people are legitimate? It is because they can say things without suffering the consequences for their words?

Also vulnerable people take at face at what they read/ hear and if somebody is not who they say they are then there could be dangerous consequences because of that deception.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 10:32 AM

They don't use the wrong terms actually. And yes I have checked their validity and I've seen them in the police station and in an official capacity.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 10:36 AM

Sorry, can you show me where I called your validity into question? Both Ossy and I have said we are Police Officers to show that we have knowledge of the subject and to help it along somewhat, that's it, simple really. Shall we move on?????

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 10:37 AM

I am quite happy to move.

Posted by: Sarah Aug 28 2009, 10:37 AM

So if I state that I'm a nurse and post a comment you don't agree with. you will then demand proof that I am indeed a nurse?

I suspect they are now wishing they had kept quiet, pity really we couldn't have afforded them a little respect for admitting they were.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 10:41 AM

And you believe everything you are told on the net then?

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 10:42 AM

They do use the wrong terms actually if, as you say, you have heard them refer to 'epaulette number'.........Believe me if they (there are more than one????) use that term in particular then I am amazed, totally amazed!! As they would quickly pick up the correct terminology during induction and whilst on operational duty, epaulette number wouldn't last very long. As Ossy has also said, that term is never used. I think we should leave it there

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 10:44 AM

That is the second time you've said that. If you keep coming back at me then i will be forced to respond. Your choice.

As for 'epaulettes'; I am not wrong.

Posted by: JeffG Aug 28 2009, 10:52 AM

Re: epaulettes vs. shoulders: http://www.policespecials.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php?t79279.html a post by a fashion-conscious Special that amused me.

And Glenn, you're probably going to tell me that I don't have to read them, but I am getting a bit fed up with all your posts slagging off our two contributors (directly or indirectly) who are providing valuable input to this forum. This seems to have turned into a single-issue thing with you.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 10:53 AM

Fair enough, but you are wrong in this case, very wrong. And I had to say it twice as the validity question was raised (again). Remind me, when did you actually hear that term used?

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 10:57 AM

I am not slagging them off and I do recognise their valid contributions.... whoever they are. If you had actually read my posts you would see that.

As for a single issue; I've just replied to their posts.... you seem to have tunnel vision my friend.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 10:58 AM

You've got a choice; we either drop it as you requested or we carry on; your choice my friend.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 11:01 AM

You obviously cannot admit you are wrong, maybe because of some mis-information but wrong all the same. I have made my point.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:05 AM

OK, I won't dropt it and will answer you.

I just phoned a police officer friend who has confirmed that both are used.... I've also asked him to check certain other things out. I hope you've got your answer now? You wouldn't leave it as you kept saying you wanted to.

Posted by: Iommi Aug 28 2009, 11:05 AM

Come on Anon2, your go! (no pushing at the back).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collar_number

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Aug 28 2009, 11:05 AM

Calm Down Dears. Its only an advert.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 11:06 AM

Never heard that term in all my years, still amazed!!!!!

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:08 AM

That is why I question whether you are really a police officer. I've often heard both mentioned. And in case I was wrong...... and it has been known I did double check.

Posted by: Iommi Aug 28 2009, 11:09 AM

What was the purpose of the emboldened text above.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:10 AM

No purpose other than I mentioned it. If you want to make something of it you are free to do so.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 11:11 AM

Question what you like, check out what you like, I've never heard the 'epaulette' term ever and I've got a lot of years in and one of my colleagues has also confirmed this, has the bee got you confused?

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2009, 11:12 AM

but you can't prove it can you?

Posted by: Iommi Aug 28 2009, 11:12 AM

P*ss off GMR you are an Internet nuisance.

I did a Google for: "epaulette number" police UK. Barely any returns. Collar or shoulder number gets dozens of returns.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:21 AM

Your tone is not conducive with an intelligent debate. If that is all you can offer then you are actually that nuisance.

You can google what you want I still stand by what I said.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:21 AM

I am quite willing to prove it.

Posted by: Iommi Aug 28 2009, 11:23 AM

'intelligent debate'... It is clear you are building a body of people that find you a nuisance.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:26 AM

Well... I wouldn't say you knew what intelligent debate was... all you are interested in is baiting people.

People will find anybody a nuisance if they don't like the truth. And I don't hide behind names like some.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 11:26 AM

You may stand by it but it has no foundation in fact whatsoever.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 11:28 AM

I have to agree with Iommi here, starting to look like you are isolated on this one GMR

Posted by: user23 Aug 28 2009, 11:28 AM

Perhaps it's time to remind everyone of this thread regarding a http://forum.newburytoday.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=231? People might think more about what they write if they can only post a certain number of times a day.

I for one will think less of Glenn if I ever encounter him in real life that I otherwise would, after what I have read on the various forums he infests.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:30 AM

Why do you say 'drop it' and then continue it? Are you trying to bait me?

Just a matter of interest I was talking to a young office who is going through the police training and one of the things he learnt was what that was. I can only say what I've been told. You disagree; what am I supposed to do... capitulate because you have never heard it used before?

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:31 AM

And they think highly of you my friend? Don't forget you've upset a lot of people on all the forums you've been on.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:31 AM

And I am supposed to worried?

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 11:34 AM

Not baiting at all, you like your say and I like mine as do other users. Is this the same Officer you spoke to on the 'phone or another Police friend? Capitulation would be possible because I am not the only Officer who has never heard this term before, am I?

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 11:35 AM

Not worried, just aware.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:40 AM

I shall tell you how we can solve this problem; let us meet up and if I am wrong then I shall apologise....


As for you having your say; I welcome your say. It has been an interesting debate.

Posted by: Iommi Aug 28 2009, 11:41 AM

Do you really mean that? Honestly? As for baiting. I don't bait, I retaliate, just like I retaliated to, 'do you want to make something of it'. You knew why I asked; your statement I questioned was deliberately meant to sound threatening.


Yes, you don't mind everyone knowing who you are because your ego gets in the way. It also means as soon as one sees your name, there's metaphoric roll of the eyes across Newbury.

Anyway, say what you like. The majority of what you post is either unfunny or ill-informed and prejudiced guff. I have no time for you here on.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:42 AM

I have no problems being isolated, but I haven't been abusive... unlike like some towards me (and I am not talking about you). I've enjoyed our debate and even Ossys. It is a pity some have had to turn nasty.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:46 AM

It was never my intention to sound threatening and if it did sound like that then I apologise.



Actually that is not true; whatever I say I would say to your face... you hide behind different names.



Is that including other boards as well?

If you think I am ill informed then debate it, instead of running away.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 11:50 AM

I think we have debated the information which you are ill informed on enough on here

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 11:53 AM

I disagree... but I can see how you would like it to be seen that way.

Posted by: Iommi Aug 28 2009, 11:58 AM

That is good of you.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 12:03 PM

I didn't expect you to agree....but do you really want to labour the point, do you want to push a, quite obviously bad position?? You probably do as that probably makes you tick

Posted by: Strafin Aug 28 2009, 12:03 PM

I can't believe I missed all this last night! I can't put my thoughts on for all the posts as I don't want to drag it out too much, however as far as the two alledged police officers are concerned, I am not convinced either that they are on the force, I don't think it makes their contributions invalid, I do think it makes them questionable. GMR is only putting forth thoughts and opinions the same as the rest of you are, if he's in a minority then so what? It all depends who is on the forum at the time as to how various discussions will go, so if he said the same things tomorrow night he might be in a majority. I would have backed him up, but I wouldn't PM him my personal details on request.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 12:05 PM

I know.

For somebody who said "I have no time for you here on" you seem to have a lot of time for me on here. Also Anon has said about 4 or 5 times that 'we should leave it' and then keeps coming back. Strange! Ozzy on the other hand has behaved honourable in all this. Maybe Ozzy is a police officer but I doubt very much Anon is. He has too much of a spiteful streak in him. And if he is a police officer then that is very disturbing.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 12:06 PM

But it is not me who is pushing it; on numrous occasions you've said 'we'll end it there' only for you to keep coming back at me. I find that strange.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 12:08 PM

At last an intelligent post. Thank you.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 12:13 PM

OK, we'll end it there, you have your info (mis informed and therefore incorrect) and I have mine (informed and backed up by various other posts which you seem to have either ignored or failed to comprehend). So that's the end of this one for me. I look forward to another debate.

Posted by: ossy1 Aug 28 2009, 12:17 PM

I suspect that anon2 has some years on me!! He is longer in th tooth and not so bothered as to what "those upstairs" will think about this.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 12:22 PM

Excuse me; which bit am I misinformed about? If it is the 'epaulettes' then I have said i would back up what I had said... irrespective of what a few have said on here to back you up (and why do you need backing up from nonpolice officers when you are a - or claim to be - a police officer?). Could you please tell me what else I am misinformed about please? Saying I am 'misinformed' and then refusing to back up your claims is a bit disingenuous.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 12:23 PM

Or he is not a police officer. Ossy, tell me as you seem an honest and fair person; do you know for a fact he is a police officer? Or are you just taking his word for it?

Posted by: ossy1 Aug 28 2009, 12:24 PM

Hold on you wanted anon2 to drop it, the complained when he didnt. Now he said drop it and you carry on.

JUST DROP IT....

This thread is supposed to be about trees..... start another one if you want to fight each other.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 12:30 PM

ALL PLEASE NOTE - I did say to end it there didn't I? This happens every time as GMR always seems to come back with something.

I don't need backing up as I know what I say on this matter is correct, simple. I was referring to your mis information regarding the 'epaulette' issue which started as you called my validity as a Police Officer into question. That matter has been flogged to death and all evidence points to me being correct on this issue. Back up your statement on this issue then with hard facts for ALL to see as, for now, all we have is you saying you have spoken to someone etc, something tangible please...I eagerly await this....

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 12:31 PM

I couldn't agree more

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 12:34 PM

First off all get your facts right; you are supposed to be a police officer and observant.

I haven’t said I wanted him to drop it, I quoted him saying he wanted to drop it.

He said awhile back that he would drop it and then kept on. In his last post he said he would ‘drop it’ and at the same time criticised/ attacked me. That is not a sign of somebody who wants it dropped. If he wanted it dropped he wouldn’t have made snide remarks. Would a real police officer behave in this manner?

I also asked you a question which I see you haven’t answered.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 12:35 PM

Now you are having a 'pop' at Ossy, this really is over, it's pointless now

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 12:36 PM

I'll back up what I've said, as i said to you before. Let us meet at the police station; what are you scared of? Then you can report back here with what you've found out.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 12:37 PM

I wouldn't call it a pop and twisting what I said doesn't make it so. All I did was ask her a question; as you asked me on.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 28 2009, 12:39 PM

I would imagine her reply would be that she cannot confirm I am a Police Officer, just as I couldn't confirm the reverse. Now where does that leave you....??? (that's rhetorical by the way)

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 12:40 PM

At least you answered something; thank you.

Posted by: ossy1 Aug 28 2009, 12:41 PM

Ive never been on a forum where the Moderators have allowed so much B****ing between posters.

No I'm just taking his word for it, reason being because when his posts relate to the thread then between the lines his use of words says he is. But I could be wrong...

Anyway this is boring i'm off to work.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 12:43 PM

The trouble with that is that a few people have read between yours and Anon's 'lines' and have drawn the conclusions you are not police officers.

As for moderating; I presume because you and Anon keep responding instead of letting it go.

Posted by: Sarah Aug 28 2009, 12:53 PM

Kettle and pot spring to mind GMR.

Posted by: GMR Aug 28 2009, 12:53 PM

It does, doesn't it

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2009, 12:59 PM

I think they are one & the same person.

Posted by: Sarah Aug 28 2009, 01:00 PM

Yes and so does rhino hide.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Aug 28 2009, 01:02 PM

Enjoy the debate......

Thats what is states on the board.

This is not a debate but a baiting contest.

Grow up - The lot of you.

Posted by: Sarah Aug 28 2009, 01:03 PM

I think maybe you have misunderstood my post, I was pointing out that GMR was accusing Ossy and Anon of doing what he was doing (in my opinion).

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2009, 01:07 PM

yes - he can't halp it because they are the same person! [ GMR & Anon ]

Posted by: Iommi Aug 28 2009, 05:16 PM

Look at the mess round here! I hope someone's going to tidy all this up before Mum and Dad gets home!

Posted by: user23 Aug 28 2009, 05:19 PM

If a lot people are upset with views on certain things they don't agree with on a public chat board perhaps they are in the wrong place. I'm not sure how you are qualified to speak on their behalf though or indeed if what you say is true, I suspect not.

All I'm saying is, and I do it to try and help you stop, you are very publicly making a fool of yourself in a lot of people's eyes. You've actually blitzed this thread so much in some places you've posted three replied in a row. If everyone had a post limit per day their words would be worth more.

Posted by: Chesapeake Aug 29 2009, 10:43 AM

Posted by: GMR Aug 29 2009, 10:50 AM

I am pleased that they have replanted the trees.... but they've got to make sure it doesn't happen again. Maybe set up some sort surveillance to catch the culprits or at least deter them. But good news.

Where I live the vandals have tried to pull down the freshly planted trees. Houses overlook the trees but nobody 'sees' anything.

Posted by: Chesapeake Aug 29 2009, 11:10 AM

Don't you think you've had enough Glenn? Give it a rest!

There ARE some wonderful things that happen in this world. I think you need to go for a walk in your locallity and make a concerted effort to look for the beauty that surrounds you. Take a little time out of your doom and gloom life and appreciate the amazing things and people that DO surround you every minute of every day. Don't keep looking for the bad after you have found the good.

Remember, for every negative there IS a positive.

Hugs and kisses my DEAR friend and wishing you all that is good.

Posted by: GMR Aug 29 2009, 11:20 AM

Give what a rest? I’ve answered you about the trees and mentioned about where I live and the problems we’ve had with trees.... I am confused... what have I done wrong?

People keep going on about keeping the topic on track and this is exactly what I've been doing; the beginning of this thread Bloggo talks about mindless vandals who have destroyed trees. My post – which you say I should give ‘it arrest' – reflects that. I kept to the topic. So what have I done wrong? We are here to debate and that is exactly what I've been doing.



I have no doom and gloom in my life but good. I always look about and see beauty and appreciate it.



I am glad you think so and I hope you concentrate on my positive instead of looking at the negative.



And the same to you my DEAR FRIEND.

Posted by: JeffG Aug 29 2009, 12:38 PM

For once, I come to Glenn's defence. He didn't deserve that response to his post.

Posted by: GMR Aug 29 2009, 01:52 PM

Thank you Jeff for being honest and fair. Maybe there are times where I can be criticised – in fact we all can be at one time or another – but on this case it is totally unfair and out of order.

Below this the original post to this thread.



Below are my comments which Chesapeake took offence to. As you will see it is in line with the original topic. I did do nothing wrong. I did not attack anybody but just made constructive comments in how to deal with this problem.



As far as I was concerned everybody had their say and we should have moved on... I’ve taken onboard everybody’s comment and I accept some of the remarks that were said. I hope now we can let the matter rest and move on.


Regards,

Glenn

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 29 2009, 02:31 PM

I note your comments. Just wondering what resources, both monetary and/or manpower would be needed for such an operation to take place? (rhetorical) I expect there would be plenty for people to write about on here and elsewhere if street crime, for example, rose and there were not enough resources to deal with it due to 'tree watching'.

Random patrols (by their very nature unpredictable), community liason by Police and other agencies and the community making an effort to improve their areas by getting involved are some of the best ways to stop this kind of thing and cases of community action doing just this are well documented.

I think it is a shame that you experience an 'I didn't see anything' attitude in your and many other communities.

As an addition, I didn't read ches's post as her taking offence,nor that she has an ulterior motive, but that's the problem with forums, posts can be read with the wrong intonation.

Anyway, like you said, let's let the matter rest

Posted by: GMR Aug 29 2009, 02:43 PM

I accept what you say, however, you also must accept that if we don’t do anything then those kids – whoever caused the trouble – will grow in strength. Basically what you are saying is that you’ve got other more important issues and there is nothing much you can do about it, other than observe where you can.



Again I accept what you say; however, random patrols didn’t stop this latest vandalism.



I agree. But me personally I’ve reported everything I’ve seen.



She said “Don't you think you've had enough Glenn? Give it a rest!”. Give what a rest? You didn’t see it that way, Jeff and I did. Maybe you could tell me how you interpreted it.

Posted by: Iommi Aug 29 2009, 02:58 PM

Perhaps Anon2 you won't tell GMR how you interpreted it and we might all therefore be able to focus on the topic instead...please!!!

This type of vulgar vandalism is regrettably a feature of British society. Fortunately, this is the actions of barely a handful of people. I'm sure there are better uses for police money than a row of small trees...sadly. Perhaps not planting anything would be a better idea, either that or exploding trees!

Posted by: GMR Aug 29 2009, 03:01 PM

Why? He said he interpreted it differently and I just wished to know how he interpreted it. What is wrong with that?

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 29 2009, 03:03 PM

[quote name='GMR' date='Aug 29 2009, 03:43 PM' post='7346']
I accept what you say, however, you also must accept that if we don’t do anything then those kids – whoever caused the trouble – will grow in strength. Basically what you are saying is that we’ve got other more important issues and there is nothing much you can do about it, other than observe where you can.

I didn't say for us not to do anything. The people committing this kind of crime are very much a minority and they can be beaten by positive community action. There are other issues to deal with, which is exactly my point re resources and community action etc

Again I accept what you say; however, random patrols didn’t stop this latest vandalism.

You cannot have 100% security all the time, impossible. Are you aware of the geographical area to be covered by the Police/PCSO'S? Most people would be horrified to hear of that area and then hear the amount of resources generally available to cover it. No-one can be everywhere, no matter how much we would like to

I agree. But me personally I’ve reported everything I’ve seen.

Good for you, but obviously more is needed from others. An example of how community action does work - A while back there was an issue which was dealt with regarding drug dealing from a house in a local estate (which will remain nameless). The initial caller was spoken to and the Officer involved told that there were other people in the area who would also give evidence re the property. A meeting in the caller's house was attended and statements were taken from three separate individuals, then presented to the Magistrate's who consequently issued a search warrant for the address. The warrant was executed soon after with many of the resources available to TVP at the time and the offender arrested (I will leave the rest of the investigation there, but suffice to say that a conviction was successfully brought). And, guess what? The dealing has not returned and the area is now much more peaceful - Community spirit in action. This happens more often than you think but, as illustrated, it needs more than one in some cases

She said “Don't you think you've had enough Glenn? Give it a rest!”. Give what a rest? You didn’t see it that way, Jeff and I did. Maybe you could tell me how you interpreted it.

I think she was mentioning the negative in the post, it is a free world after all

Posted by: GMR Aug 29 2009, 03:12 PM

I wish you would use quotes as it confuses people.

Again I agree with you; the trouble is most ‘community’s’ don’t get involved and, I suppose, things will stay the same.



Nice to hear some good news. I do know it happens as I do get to hear it... at least in our area.



So she is against the ‘negative’ posts then? So, I presume , she was referring to everybody instead of just me. Please to hear it.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 29 2009, 03:17 PM

Posted by: GMR Aug 29 2009, 03:21 PM

I won't argue with you.

Posted by: Anon2 Aug 29 2009, 03:22 PM

Good to hear

Posted by: Chesapeake Aug 30 2009, 04:40 PM

I really thought that this would bring everything on to a more even keel and make people do a nice "ahhhhhh" not a horrible "ahhhhh" but, it obviously did not turn out that way. I did not log in again until yesterday and wanted to say something then but I got busy with my family. So here is my response.....

I felt, wrongly or rightly, Glen that you were not letting the whole thing drop and were still 'harping on' about how things were bad for YOU. Your first sentence also reminded me of my Mother-in-Law who can never say a completely positive comment i.e. when I have slaved away over a meal for her visit or bought something new she will always say "Yes, it's very nice but.................". When I said "Don't you think you've had enough Glenn?" I meant because of the vehement opposition that you were seeming to have from everybody about your views on this particular subject, in other words "Do you really want more?". I do however think that I could have chosen better wording when I said "Give it a rest". Maybe it was the thought of my Mother-in-Law that made me lose concentration! She always has to have the last word as well!



The rest of the post was meant to come across in a non-condescending way but it obviously didn't. It REALLY was meant with the best of thoughts in my heart and I really DID mean "DEAR" in a non-sarcastic way.

Anyway, because of all this and other things that have happened on this forum, that have made very uncomfortable reading, such as the treatment that Bill1 received, I don't want to be part of it any more. I used to enjoy reading the debates on here. They sometimes got a little heated but not malicious and they often made me laugh and I thoroughly enjoyed the very clever, very often witty replies. I wanted to be a part of that. I do not want to be a part of the way this forum has been lately.

Peoples professions have been questioned and slated (council-worker, policeman/woman, traffic wardens) and they have been attacked on a personal level. Then if someone looks as if they are trying to defend themselves and their jobs, a large number of you dive in like a pack of wolves diving in for the kill with vindictive and venomous comments. Not nice, not clever and not an acceptable way for intelligent adults to behave.

Anyway the trees have been replaced and that IS a good thing. Whether you all want to be doom and gloom as to whether they will last or not was not my point. They have been replaced.

Posted by: Strafin Aug 30 2009, 08:09 PM

To be fair the people who got slated are the ones who came on and told everyone what they did after reaing other peoples posts about those positions. I think that everyone should stay anonymous for that reason. If everyone tries to remember that a forum is used as a soundong board, a release or an outlet for anger sometimes, and don't take things either personally or for real then there won't be a problem. I agree that lately the boards have seemed more agressive than ever before, and I am involved in that too, but that's what happens when you are given the opportunity to have a go at council workers, the police or boy racers for example. If everyone had remained anonymmous it wouldn't have happened.

Posted by: Strafin Aug 30 2009, 08:10 PM

And I am pleased about the trees too, I don't necessarily think it was kids either - there's a pub opposite...

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 31 2009, 12:36 AM

Too many posters can't help getting a little personal. Because they can't win the argument, or someone has a differing opinion, they resort to scoring cheap personal points.

Posted by: user23 Aug 31 2009, 11:27 AM

Very true. If one doesn't like reading views that they disagree with then perhaps an Internet chat board is not for them.

Posted by: Iommi Aug 31 2009, 11:57 AM

What about people that like reading views that they disagree with and posting as they see fit! Indeed, the quoted post of yours has a certain self fulfilling irony. Would you have made the post if it were not for reading posts that concern you?

But you and I are guilty of perpetuating the ruination of this thread's topic and it is becoming increasingly clear that there needs to be some moderation on this forum to preventing it becoming a tedious chattering shop.


I wonder if the trees could be better protected by higher, or bigger railings? Preferably barbed at the top.

Posted by: Strafin Aug 31 2009, 12:10 PM

I think the threads get on topic again pretty quickly when people ignore the chatter and get back to the point, like you just have. I think the barbs are a great idea. When Thatcham put the skate ramp in on Dunstan Green, they had a similar problem with treea, so they put in gorse bushes which nobody touched, maybe they could border the trees to stop people getting to them?

Posted by: lordtup Aug 31 2009, 03:34 PM

It's somewhat poignant that more people have subscribed to this thread than any other .
Yet by the virtue of averages someone involved in this mindless mayhem will be known or even related to one of the contributors .

These little thugs are "our" children who have gone off the rails through lack of parental guidance . Yes I know a good 6 of the best would do no harm and even show them the light , but those who have produced them without any thought to the responsibilities of parenting should be the ones who are really punished .

It should also be added that the woolly minded liberals who forced us to adopt such a laize faire approach to child discipline should also share the burden of guilt

Posted by: GMR Aug 31 2009, 07:14 PM

I agree that one of the ways to protect the trees - young trees - if they had a high protected fence around it.

http://img27.imageshack.us/i/s4200080.jpg/

http://img27.imageshack.us/i/s4200081.jpg/

Posted by: Biker1 Sep 1 2009, 07:35 PM

I see in the poll this week on the home page "Does West Berkshire have a problem with anti-social behaviour?" some people are clicking "NO".

I'd love to hear from some of these people on this site and for them to explain why they can possible think this is the case.

Or is it just that :-

a. they are being antagonistic

or

b. their mouse slipped!

Posted by: dannyboy Sep 1 2009, 07:40 PM

err, I think it is more a case of where you live. If you live in a nice big house in the country, have your shopping delivered and have a jolly time with your chums, then you'd most likely not think there was a problem with ASB.

Posted by: GMR Sep 1 2009, 07:41 PM

I just had a look. 80% says yes, 9% says no and 11% says it is the same as anywhere else.

The 9% is made up of judges, police, council, people who live on another planet and the very well off

Posted by: Chesapeake Sep 1 2009, 08:31 PM

I cannot believe that you have made this comment GMR!

It just goes to show how little you know about the world and life in general or are you just being a deliberately antagonistic, sad, old man? Or am I totally wrong and you know something that we don't. Please let us in on the statistics that are not published for the general public to read but to which only you has access.

Out of all the people who know what anti-social behaviour is like then surely judges, police and the council are the first in line that have to deal with its consequences.

People who read my post may think that I am being far too personal but please understand and remember my husband works for the council, some of my very best friends are members of the Police Service and I ACTUALLY DO owe my life to a couple of Judges. Because of this every time that GMR slates those particular Public Services I feel badly wounded by his comments. He really should change the record unless he can substantiate and provide proof of his claims.

Posted by: GMR Sep 1 2009, 08:35 PM

It was a joke... that is why I put a smilie behind it. We are allowed humour on here? Look at other replies... they also use humour. That is what smilies are for. To show one is joking. Jesus!!!

I think other members would have got it.... even if you sadly didn't.

It is obvious that I haven't got a clue who the 9% are.... nobody does, so people would know I was joking.... by using their intelligence.

Posted by: Biker1 Sep 1 2009, 08:50 PM

Police yes - judges & the council I'm not so sure.

I work in a job where I am exposed to the sort of behaviour that we are talking about here and I am sure that if those 9% were to do my job for a day they would change their minds.

Again I ask if any of that 9% have access to this forum then I would dearly like to hear their views.

Posted by: Chesapeake Sep 1 2009, 08:51 PM

So, on the same note then Glenn you couldn't/wouldn't see the nice that I put at the bottom of my post on this thread on Aug 29 2009, 12:10 PM.

Or have you got your own "Smilie Face Rule" that applies only when it suits you.

To reiterate, you seem to be, once again, harping on in a negative fashion about the same ol stuff (joke or no joke). You are then surprised that these professionals do not take you seriously. Perhaps you should try out a little self analysis and work out where you are going wrong? You say you are interested in psychology? Only joking

Posted by: GMR Sep 1 2009, 08:59 PM

These are forums; most posts/ threads are negative. I am not the only one. In fact you'd be hard pushed to find anything postive on here. That is forum life. I remember being on a forum many years ago and all it was, was positive; it eventually died a death. Put something up about the police, Sovereign, council, anti-social behaviour etc and people will answer you. Puts something up positive and the chances are people will ignore you. Whether that is right or wrong, it is life. Read a paper or watch the news and 99% is bad.... maybe 1% is positive.

Anyway, glad to see you are joking

Posted by: Chesapeake Sep 1 2009, 09:02 PM

By the way, I don't think the council have replaced all the trees.

Posted by: GMR Sep 1 2009, 09:10 PM

Did you see my good positive deed? After reading your post I went up to the Green and took some photos. Granted my good deed for the day might have been overshadowed with my humorous... or attempted humorous posts on the 9 percenters today. But then you win some and then you lose some

I am sure with your guidance I'll eventually get there

Posted by: JeffG Sep 1 2009, 09:42 PM

Actually, either you had the wrong pair of glasses on, or you caught the poll very early on. (I'm guessing the latter ).

With more votes cast, at the moment it says Yes 14%, No 3% and Same as Anywhere Else 83%

(Actually I doubt that 83% have knowledge of the levels of ASB everywhere else - I don't.)

Posted by: GMR Sep 1 2009, 09:52 PM

That is weird.... because i wrote it down before writing on here. I also did it the same time as the post was sent.

Posted by: GMR Sep 1 2009, 09:59 PM

If you check it every few minutes it gives you different readings.


http://img193.imageshack.us/i/voteo.jpg/

Posted by: dannyboy Sep 1 2009, 11:16 PM

you forgot your Disraeli quote........

Posted by: GMR Sep 1 2009, 11:24 PM

Within an hour and 20 minutes it has gone up by 21%; the yes have it.

http://img268.imageshack.us/i/antigqh.jpg/


Just for you: 'There are lies, damn lies and statistics."

Posted by: Iommi Sep 1 2009, 11:40 PM

It would seem...after 2 minutes work!

Posted by: GMR Sep 1 2009, 11:46 PM

It seems it is changing quite a bit.

Posted by: Strafin Sep 2 2009, 08:20 AM

Is that because people are taking part and thus changing the current status?

Posted by: GMR Sep 2 2009, 09:00 AM

I agree, but it changes quite a bit and within such a short time frame.

Posted by: Iommi Sep 2 2009, 09:44 AM

Well I managed to 'vote' about 40 times, so it should be treated with a pinch o' salt.

Posted by: GMR Sep 2 2009, 09:55 AM

Are you saying that you can get whatever result you desire? If that is the case then the whole exercise seems pointless. I would have thought that they had the ability to make sure that you only voted once (i.e. because of the cookies).

Thanks for that.

Posted by: user23 Sep 2 2009, 12:09 PM

Did the result change as a consequence of your voting though?

All of these things should be taken with a pinch of salt, however the current approximate 1/3rd of people saying yes (I'm assuming 1/3rd of people voting never go anywhere), and 2/3rds saying no worse than anywhere else sounds about right.

Posted by: Iommi Sep 2 2009, 01:02 PM

Yes, I added 4% to no different.

Posted by: GrumblingAgain Sep 2 2009, 01:36 PM

I've just added another 6% Looks like Newbury's "The glass is half empty" lot will have to go and find something else to moan about now

Posted by: Biker1 Sep 2 2009, 02:29 PM

Gone up to 14% now!

Who are these people ?

Do they stay in bed all day?

Or is it just as a result of this thread!!

Walk along Northbrook Street a couple of times on a Saturday afternoon and you'll see what I mean!

(Don't try the evening it's not advisable!)

Posted by: Chesapeake Sep 2 2009, 03:14 PM

Uuumm, HELLO, this post is supposed to be about the Stroud Green Trees!

I know that things on forums can quite quickly and all that but this does seem to be a little infantile if I may say.

"Little things please little minds". Have your lives got so boring that you are all finding this entertaining?

I'm sure GMR could find you something else to do......

Posted by: Biker1 Sep 2 2009, 03:17 PM

HELLLOOOO!!! this thread was instigated by ASB on Stroud Green resulting in the breaking of saplings.

It has EVERYTHING to do with this thread.

And if you think ASB is a "little thing" then you must be one of those who stays in bed all day!

Posted by: Chesapeake Sep 2 2009, 03:24 PM

Uuuuummmm HELLOOOOOO!!!! This thread was inspired by a particular piece of anti-social behaviour which was the breaking of trees on Stroud Green. Your playing around with what surely should be a totally new thread i.e. "Wwho can make the Anti-Social Behaviour Statistics Poll change the most"

Posted by: Biker1 Sep 2 2009, 03:29 PM

I had nothing to do with the experiment to change the poll statistics.
I merely asked those who were voting "NO" to come on here and discuss their reasons fo doing so.
This was because I find it hard to believe that anyone can think we do not have a problem in this day and age and was interested to know their thoughts on this.

I used this thread rather than start a new one because it seemed appropriate to discuss ASB here. (Which, as I said, was the cause of the trees being vandalised.)

I can assure you was not instigating or participating in any childish games.

I leave that to others.

Posted by: Chesapeake Sep 2 2009, 03:48 PM

New Thread especially for you and others is now set up.

Posted by: Biker1 Sep 2 2009, 03:51 PM

Oh! You shouldn't have.