A new low for David Cameron's PMQs Options

[x2lls]

Commissar Corbyns party now SO toxic his front benches are bailing out! I suppose they wish to distance themselves from the debacle and try to retain some political credibility.

No-one has said they can't dream!

[On the edge]

Commissar Corbyns party now SO toxic his front benches are bailing out! I suppose they wish to distance themselves from the debacle and try to retain some political credibility.

Oh I don't know, at least they do it in opposition! The Conservatives have made a habit of doing it when in power; as Johnny Major found out. Don't fret, the Eurosceptics will show leopards don't change their spots.

[Turin Machine]

Lord! You can have the submarines but you have to take the warheads away! Oh, and the army can keep its guns but it can't have any bullets to fire. Just run around shouting "BANG" at the enemy when they hove into view. National defense policy by Dads Army.

[Simon Kirby]

Lord! You can have the submarines but you have to take the warheads away! Oh, and the army can keep its guns but it can't have any bullets to fire. Just run around shouting "BANG" at the enemy when they hove into view. National defense policy by Dads Army.

Trident is a weapons delivery system, not a warhead.

The UK bought the Trident rocket and MIRV delivery system from the Americans because it was easier for us to buy a working system than it was for us to develop our own, and we were free to do that because the delivery system is not subject to the Non-Proliferation Treaty.

The thermonuclear warheads that sit on that delivery system are however UK designed and built, and so too are the Vanguard submarines that deploy the Trident rockets, and this presents a challenge, because while Jeremy Corbyn and the majority of Labour Members are strongly opposed to nuclear arms, there are few of us who would happily trash an industry that provides an essential livelihood to thousands, particularly in Faslane on the Clyde and Barrow-in-Furness where alternative industry is scarce.

But within the space allowed you can stick more or less whatever warhead you like on top of a trident missile because it's just a delivery system in the same way that the UK has used its Vulcans bombers and Tomahawk cruise missiles to bomb with conventional munitions.

So the suggestion for discussion - and that's what this is - is that the submarines and Trident missiles could be retained as a conventional-arms delivery system, but the UK's nuclear weapons programme would end.

The suggestion has some merit, and if we're to abandon the UK nuclear weapons programme there absolutely needs to be a detailed plan for jobs in the affected areas - re-industrialisation in the heavy-engineering areas, and hi-tech engineering in West Berkshire.

I don't like the idea myself and for my money I'd abandon Trident altogether and look to invest the money instead in entirely peaceful civil engineering, education, and research, though that's a bit hand-wavey and I acknowledge the strength of Corbyn's concrete proposals.

[Turin Machine]

I think the point you are missing is that the Trident system is all about the nuc!ear warheads, its about having a nuclear deterrent 24 hours a day that can't be tracked. That's what makes it a deterrent. No nuclear warheads and what you end up with is a very costly and irrelevant conventional platform that merely fulfills a role that can be performed by surface vessels, aircraft or land based delivery platforms. All of which can be knocked out by a first strike. That's the whole point! The whole object is to demonstrate to the enemy that yes! We too have a big stick with a nail in it, but its somewhere you can't find it!

Anyone who would leave Britain potentially defenceless is little more than a dangerous, self deluded fantasist.

[Andy Capp]

Better dead than red?

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Quite frankly Corbyn is an irrelevance.
My concern is we have no effective opposition.

That's when the Tories go "loon"

I have a good idea... Let's deport all Muslims who can't speak English. We'd need a huge boat! And where exactly are we deporting them to? A lot have been here for decades and still don't speak a word... Surely that is the issue that should be looked into. Costs money though.

[Simon Kirby]

Anyone who would leave Britain potentially defenceless is little more than a dangerous, self deluded fantasist.

There is no objective evidence to support that view. Take a look around Europe and you'll see that virtually all of our continental neighbours are doing fine without the need for nuclear weapons, and the ad-hominem does nothing to support your argument.

[Turin Machine]

Oh dear, its that pesky old Dunning - Kruger effect at work, again.

[Andy Capp]

There is no objective evidence to support that view. Take a look around Europe and you'll see that virtually all of our continental neighbours are doing fine without the need for nuclear weapons, and the ad-hominem does nothing to support your argument.

Japan? Would America had dropped the big one if Japan had a nuclear weapon system? As for Europe, they've ponced their nuclear defence from NATO.

[je suis Charlie]

Do you suppose Hitler would have held off if he had the bomb? No!, What about the Japanese? Why did Russia finally pull away from missiles in Cuba? Perhaps if USA hadn't got the bomb they wouldn't have that's for **** sure! If IS get a bomb will the use it? **** right they will! Trouble with lefty liberals,they think they can always get away with Trotskyite cant and platitudes. Weak, wishy washy heads in the clouds. I feel a lot safer knowing we're protected. Reminds me of those women at Greenham, "if they try and deploy the missiles I'll just lay down in the road" said one, hah! See how that works out with ten tons of rubber and steel rolling over you!

[je suis Charlie]

Anyone who would leave Britain potentially defenceless is little more than a dangerous, self deluded fantasist.

Quite right, man's a security liability.

[On the edge]

Do you suppose Hitler would have held off if he had the bomb? No!, What about the Japanese? Why did Russia finally pull away from missiles in Cuba? Perhaps if USA hadn't got the bomb they wouldn't have that's for **** sure! If IS get a bomb will the use it? **** right they will! Trouble with lefty liberals,they think they can always get away with Trotskyite cant and platitudes. Weak, wishy washy heads in the clouds. I feel a lot safer knowing we're protected. Reminds me of those women at Greenham, "if they try and deploy the missiles I'll just lay down in the road" said one, hah! See how that works out with ten tons of rubber and steel rolling over you!

Night terrors back are they mate?

[Simon Kirby]

Japan? Would America had dropped the big one if Japan had a nuclear weapon system? As for Europe, they've ponced their nuclear defence from NATO.

And yet despite the threat from thieir neighbours Russia, China, and Korea, with whom the Japanese have had significant disputes in the past, the Japanese have eshewed nuclear weapons, having lived first-hand with that unspeakable inhumanity.

I want peace in the world, and I choose to believe that there will come a time when people are sufficiently civilised that killing those they disagree with will no longer be an acceptable choice, at least at the national level. It's unlikely that every semi-evolved simian with a sharpened pencil and a fear of spiders will reject murder on a personal level, but I choose to believe that we - the peoples of the world - will at least one day stop venerating these despots and tyrants and will instead choose the peaceful civilised approach.

[Mr Brown]

Jeremy Corbyn's proposal is pretty clever, because it covers another more serious national deficiency. The UK no longer has the skills needed to support a nuclear capability; military or civil. The only real choice we have is via NATO or the Americans.

[Andy Capp]

Do you suppose Hitler would have held off if he had the bomb? No!, What about the Japanese? Why did Russia finally pull away from missiles in Cuba? Perhaps if USA hadn't got the bomb they wouldn't have that's for **** sure! If IS get a bomb will the use it? **** right they will! Trouble with lefty liberals,they think they can always get away with Trotskyite cant and platitudes. Weak, wishy washy heads in the clouds. I feel a lot safer knowing we're protected. Reminds me of those women at Greenham, "if they try and deploy the missiles I'll just lay down in the road" said one, hah! See how that works out with ten tons of rubber and steel rolling over you!

That argument is fine if you believe the world 'controlled' by America is a better one than one controlled by others.

[je suis Charlie]

Japan? Would America had dropped the big one if Japan had a nuclear weapon system? As for Europe, they've ponced their nuclear defence from NATO.

And Commissar Corbyn wants us out of NATO as well. He wants us defenceless so Putin's goons can just walk in. The Crimea of western Europe, that's how he sees us.

[On the edge]

And Commissar Corbyn wants us out of NATO as well. He wants us defenceless so Putin's goons can just walk in. The Crimea of western Europe, that's how he sees us.

Umm. I think even that awful prospect would be preferable to the place Osbo. is taking us, the new Moldova of Europe!

[The Hatter]

The Scandinavian countries don't have such big military forces or nuclear weapons. They seem to survive OK, what's wrong with following them?

[je suis Charlie]

They have NATO. Anyway, look what happened to them in the last war.