Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Adrian Hollister Mar 26 2012, 12:02 PM

In the news is Dodgy Dave who seems to be accepting back handers for access to him and his policies; so I think the government must declare all lobbying activities, any political funds associated and any personal funds that MP's may benefit from. This is something that I've asked Benyon about, but as usual I got the 'no real answer' letter back discussing the weather and how nice and thick parliamentary paper is .

I've also wondered why NWN never cover things like this? Dealing with corruption effects us all, so perhaps they are a little too caution to cover sensitive issues for those in 'power'.

So what do you lot think? Should we just allow the corruption to continue; or do we need reform?

Posted by: Jo Pepper Mar 26 2012, 12:10 PM

It is not just conservatives that have a problem, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8999267/Fugitive-Lib-Dem-donor-Michael-Brown-arrested.html.

Why are your surprised? This problem has followed the conservatives for years.

Posted by: Adrian Hollister Mar 26 2012, 12:29 PM

I hadn't spotted that, but it does seem that those in 'power' don't want change. Benyon here didn't even agree with an elected second house (House of Lords). Why on earth not? Just 'cos some people have inherited titles, should not entitle them to be in an unelected government.

Posted by: Vodabury Mar 26 2012, 12:35 PM

Unless there is state funding of political parties, this problem will continue. Labour are just as guilty - remember Lord Cashpoint and his scam? Not to mention peerages handed out to big party donors. The system encourages corrupt practice.

Posted by: blackdog Mar 26 2012, 12:38 PM

Hereditary entitlement went some years ago - a few selected Lords were allowed to stay on but they will go soon. The main political parties want reform of the Lords to give them control over its membership - they definitely don't trust the electorate to decide. It will be interesting to see of they can get rid of the Bishops.

What they should do (in my opinion) is elect the Lords by proportional representation based on the votes cast for MPs in each general election. There would be no need for any additional election, the political balance of the 'upper' house would reflect that of the country, and government would no longer be able to simply appoint a bunch of peers to ensure they have a majority.

Posted by: Ron Mar 26 2012, 04:13 PM

And what makes it so clear that any of the others, including your lot, are/would be any different?

Posted by: Strafin Mar 26 2012, 05:24 PM

What a daft question. If they covered everything that could affect us, they would just be a national newspaper.

Posted by: Squelchy Mar 26 2012, 06:26 PM

That makes it all ok then does it?

Posted by: Jo Pepper Mar 26 2012, 06:30 PM

Actually, I would quite like to know what our MP is saying on our behalf.

Posted by: Strafin Mar 26 2012, 07:42 PM

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

Posted by: Ron Mar 26 2012, 09:56 PM

No. But he was making a comment in such a way as if others were all better.

Posted by: Squelchy Mar 26 2012, 10:22 PM

Well, if it's wrong it's wrong. Saying "they're all the same" doesn't really help matters.

The Police were called in to investigate the Labour debacle. (no one was charged or prosecuted).

Cameron has set up an internal inquiry to be run by a chap that Cameron gave a knighthood to last year.

Bit of a difference I'd have thought.

Posted by: Adrian Hollister Mar 27 2012, 08:29 AM

It's not just what they are saying, but what they are getting to say it. If the PM is so willing to form a party system giving access for money, then the whole lobbying system must be accountable. Accountable and reportable. We need to know if our MP was lobbied by 3rd parties to understand the influence they bring (financial, political or personal).

If there is no problem here, why doesn't dodgy dave just open up the information? why doesn't Benyon lobby his PM for it? and why not limit and document sources of personal and political funding?

Posted by: Jayjay Mar 27 2012, 08:37 AM

The MP for Newbury votes with the party, (those whips must sting his soft hide) so to know what he is saying just look what Cameron is saying.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 27 2012, 08:42 AM

He is what's known as a tame MP; some might say lame!

Posted by: Vodabury Mar 27 2012, 04:25 PM

If Labour were to win a general election tomorrow, then not only would we have a governing party funded by unions, but also the fact that they would have chosen our Prime Minister as well!

If unions can fund political parties in return for favourable policy, then companies and individuals should be able to as well. All major party conferences are full of lobbyists trying to meet with influential people and shape policy.

Personally, I think it should be looked into to see if parties should be state-funded - I heard the figure today of £23 Million - a drop in the ocean in terms of public expenditure, and I am sure less than the cost of investigations /inquiries into the repeated scandals!

I can see the downside of state-funding, but it has to be better than what we have at present.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 27 2012, 06:00 PM

All that is required is transparency.

Posted by: GMR Mar 27 2012, 06:50 PM

What corruption? The Tories haven't done anything wrong. Labour took 80 million from the unions.

Posted by: GMR Mar 27 2012, 06:51 PM

Exactly; look at the 1 million donations from the racing car industry that labour got.

Posted by: GMR Mar 27 2012, 06:52 PM

Exactly; people forget that when attacking the Tories.

Posted by: Vodabury Mar 27 2012, 06:54 PM

And people have been saying that for at least 100 years, following Lloyd George being involved in the selling of peerages and the Marconi share scandal.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 27 2012, 06:55 PM

The Tories came in promising a new sort of politics, yet we seem to see the same practice from this lot too. I read somewhere on Sunday about expenses being kept secret as well

Posted by: Vodabury Mar 27 2012, 07:16 PM

Don't all parties promise that? There is nothing new or old about politics, it is just "politics". Stealth and deception predates scripture.

Posted by: GMR Mar 27 2012, 08:08 PM

you will never ever get no mistakes or corruption. What is the issue is when it does pop up how the parties deal with it. In the case of the Tories they acted quickly and swiftly. Shouldn't we be giving them credit? Under labour's donation scandals they dithered and didn't act straight away.

Posted by: Squelchy Mar 27 2012, 09:08 PM

Actually they (Labour) had to do nothing. The Police received three complaints and that meant they (the Police) had to act. They then found no evidence of wrong-doing.

So far Dave has refused to give a list, then he agreed to give a list, then only a list of the 17 who had given the largest sums. He's still refusing to name those who only gave slightly lesser amounts. Although I expect it will be dragged out of him eventually. Remember, the press has been waiting for a chance to give them all a good kicking ever since the Leverson and Police enqiuries into press conduct started.

You cannot expect Murdoch to keep seeing his staff being arrested and carted off to chokey on a regular basis and do nothing. Two of his journos have already attempted suicide. Sure enough, here comes The Sunday Times (prop R.Murdoch) to start the hatchet work.

Posted by: Jayjay Mar 27 2012, 11:08 PM

The Labour party was investigated by the Police, the Tories are being investigated by a Tory peer. How very cinvenient.

Posted by: GMR Mar 28 2012, 07:23 PM

They "found no evidence" doesn't mean they were honest. And there is no evidence that the Tories have done wrong.



No party is required to give over any list. The labour have been asked and they've declined and so have the LDs.


We also must remember that the Unions fund the labour party and actually elected Ed as leader; the Tory sponsors can't elect a Tory leader.



So we should feel sorry for Murdoch? And are you saying this was revenge on behalf of the Murdoch empire?

Posted by: GMR Mar 28 2012, 07:26 PM

Because the Labour party broke the law (allegedly) but no law was broken in the case of the Tories. All parties investigate themselves if there is such a problem. Cameron dealt with the problem immediately and now is holding an investigation.

Posted by: Cognosco Mar 28 2012, 07:48 PM

What's to investigate? Are you implying he did not know it was happening? Or are you implying he wants to invesitgate how it was exposed to the public?

Posted by: Jayjay Mar 28 2012, 08:44 PM

Obvious he didn't know it was happening as he 'forgot' to mention on the original list the three who gave £2M.

Posted by: GMR Mar 28 2012, 09:11 PM

The comments that were made against party policy; i.e. that is why he went.





Who? Cameron? Not what his financial man had said (without authorisation and actually got it wrong; i.e. it was all bluster).





No; what was said - and wasn't true - that will be investigated. Anything that was said without permission or against party policy has to be investigated; this happens in all parties.

Posted by: Squelchy Mar 28 2012, 09:34 PM

Really?

Who said this then? (2 YEARS AGO)

‘It’s an issue that crosses party lines and has tainted our politics for too long... an issue that exposes the far-too-cosy relationship between politics, government, business and money. I’m talking about lobbying — and we all know how it works. The lunches, the hospitality, the quiet word in your ear, the ex-ministers and ex-advisors for hire, helping big business find the right way to get its way. In this party, we believe in competition, not cronyism. We believe in market economics, not crony capitalism. So we must be the party that sorts all this out.’

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 28 2012, 10:12 PM

Gotcha !

Posted by: GMR Mar 28 2012, 10:44 PM

That quote was about lobbying; the dinner hadn't anything to do with lobbying. It was about donors meeting Cameron; which happens in all parties. If you are talking about changing donations then it will have to be taxed and there is no enthusiasm for that amongst the public.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 28 2012, 10:49 PM

In my view, this is even more insidious. Big business don't pay £250k to get a photo and an autograph from the PM.

Posted by: Sherlock Mar 28 2012, 10:57 PM

"We believe in market economics", "we believe in competition". That's the problem.

To my mind 'believing' is what you fall back on when you don't have any evidence. The religious 'believe' in whichever god their religion's founders decided should be their deity (Jehova, Allah, Thor, Zeus, whoever) because belief is all they have: it's not possible to prove the existence of any particular god using, you know, facts. If it was possible to prove categorically that a particular god existed we'd all accept him, her or it as our creator/redeemer/whatever because the facts would be indisputable, right?

Similarly, politicians tend to 'believe' in a specific route to salvation, usually represented by their versions of gods: economists.

Cameron believes in Adam Smith and Friedrich Hayek. He's about to transfer the whole of the NHS to the private sector based purely on his 'belief' that competition and markets will make it more efficient and effective. Seems a bit dangerous to me - I'd like to see some evidence, or at least well thought through arguments which go beyond the 'private sector good, public sector bad' chants of Cameron and his little helper Clegg.

Poor old Ed, on the other hand, has no idea what he believes. Right now I'd vote for a party which said 'You know what? We don't believe anything'.

Posted by: Sherlock Mar 28 2012, 11:20 PM

Good points GMR. What's your feeling about Clegg? I'm not a violent man but whenever I see him on the box these days I want to punch him in the face. Hard. Is that wrong?

Posted by: Squelchy Mar 29 2012, 08:01 AM

Really? They weren't lobbying on their own behalf then? These major players became heads of huge bank accounts by paying a quarter of a million pounds for just a picture of them with Sam 'n' Dave? Think on.

Posted by: Jo Pepper Mar 29 2012, 08:30 AM

Various papers are carrying stories of private health comapnies lobbying dodgy Dave to 'privatise' the NHS. No conflict of interests there then....

Russia Today carried the story as 'corruption' - you can't blame them. If the shoe was on the other foot for this issue, we would be describing the Russian state as riddled with corruption.

I can't see this as any different than countries who's power brokers give key contracts and assets to companies becuase they have been paid. It's just a 'western' version of corruption.

Posted by: GMR Mar 29 2012, 04:47 PM

They did with Brown and Blair.


Big Business has always communicated at top level. It is done throughout the world and by all parties.

Posted by: GMR Mar 29 2012, 04:48 PM

I think the LDs have too much power (considering they came third with reduced support). This a good example why PR isn't a good idea.

Posted by: GMR Mar 29 2012, 04:53 PM

What you are talking about happens with all parties. Why criticise Cameron when Blair and Brown did the same. And having a private dinner party isn't proof of lobbying. I can't see anything wrong with having dinner with the PM. If there was proof of having influence then at would be another matter. Even if they did have influence they would still have to get it through the Commons. Powerful parties are allowed to talk to governments; how they react - governments - is a different matter.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 29 2012, 05:54 PM

What do you think the government would have done if it were not in a coalition? What examples do you have of differences we might have seen?


Because Cameron is the PM (Blair and Brown are not) and we got rid of Brown and Blair for these reasons (amongst others), yet he and his party seems not to have learned the lesson.

Posted by: GMR Mar 29 2012, 06:30 PM

The government could have carried out what was in their manifesto rather than bartering.







We didn't get rid of Blair; Brown and his people forced Blair out.



To your second point; I disagree. You will never get perfection with anything; therefore the question is how swift do they deal with any problems that come up and the Tories acted quickly.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 29 2012, 07:04 PM

Do you have an example of where the Tories had to give-in?


Blair and Brown was a euphemism for New Labour.


I don't see it a case of perfection; that isn't what we have here. We have rank stupidity in the Tory party. Did these highly paid professionals not think that it might look a bit dodgy if they allow a party sponsor to gain access to the lodger at No 10. Not only that, but to blurt it to any old soul in a candid interview that their money could be an investment.


"Meet the new boss ... same as the old boss" - P Townsend.

Posted by: GMR Mar 29 2012, 07:45 PM

One example is over inheritance tax. Another was that they wanted to reduce the 50p tax to 40p when they came into power.




And?



This is about one individual overstepping his mark, not the rank stupidity of the Tory party.


Party sponsors have always had access to high ranking ministers; in all parties. As for stupidity; that goes across all political parties.

Posted by: Jayjay Mar 29 2012, 08:21 PM

But this wasn't just having dinner with the PM was it? Peter Cruddas SOLD dinner with the PM. If any Pm wants advice we pay civil servants a vast amount of money to discover facts. On the published list there are bankers, oil companies, hedge fund managers, no sign of Pensioners Alliance, or any charities they couldn't afford the fee.

Posted by: gel Mar 29 2012, 08:27 PM

See in news that his papa was dishing out bread to the Parish paupers;
how quaint/reiteration of the Class status quo!!

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 29 2012, 08:33 PM

What profound effect has this had on the country that has made the coalition inept?


"And?" what? ... we didn't vote New Labour back for another term, and one reason was because of the 'cash for...' system.


I don't think it is. Even if it is, he was a part of the Tory Party and presumably was being 'managed'?


Including the present government. We were promised a 'new kind' of politics.

Posted by: GMR Mar 29 2012, 09:33 PM

Peter Cruddas acted beyond his authority and for that resigned.



This wasn't about the PM asking for advice but a private dinner; as I said a common practice within politics. The PM didn't do anything illegal or anything previous PMs hadn't practiced.

Posted by: GMR Mar 29 2012, 09:40 PM

That isn't what you asked.






We did when Blair was leader. As for "cash for..." all parties were involved and wasn't the reason why Labour didn't get back in (or just the reason).




"Presumably" isn't a fact; just your assumption. As for you "thinking"; with biased overtones which helps you draw your conclusions.

According to the Tories he wasn't managed; I am not defending them but saying you need more than just your prejudices to convict somebody.




No government or person can promise purity; what he meant by that is a quick and swift response to wrong doings; which the previous government failed to do.

Posted by: Adrian Hollister Mar 29 2012, 09:50 PM

Peter Cruddas was just caught out - if the PM and the Tories want to show that this is not just 'western style' corruption, he should open this up to independent review and openly declare lobbying, funding and direct/indirect personal gain.

Bet he won't though as IMHO he stands to loose too much....

Posted by: Ron Mar 29 2012, 10:50 PM

I wonder how much of this is envy?

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 29 2012, 10:53 PM

The question was to understand why you thought the Tories would have produced a better outcome if they had not been in a coalition.


I know, hence why I said one of the reasons.


He was either managed or not. If he was, it was poor management; if he wasn't, why not and he should have been. Either way, it doesn't show the Tories in good light.


I repeat; if he was, it was poor management; if he wasn't, why not and he should have been. Cameron made this a promise of government.


Cameron's first response was to refuse to release details. It was only after an avalanche of protest that he had to capitulate. He has since ducked and weaved on the subject.

A slippery slimy Tory.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 29 2012, 10:54 PM

I doubt it is much.

Posted by: Jayjay Mar 30 2012, 07:07 AM

Personally I have never been asked to a private dinner party and been asked to pay. Could it be Cameron didn't know what Peter Cruddas was doing? He didn't know where donation money was coming from? It was pure coincidence that the diners were hedge fund managers, bankers, property developers just when the 50p tax rate went down, planning law was changed in developers favour and bankers bonus' wasn't halted. It was pure coincidence that no charities, childrens grroups, pensioners groups were invited to dinner?

I quite agree this is normal practice for the Tory party, Neil Hamilton and Tim Smith did the same when John Major was in power.

Posted by: Squelchy Mar 30 2012, 08:07 AM

I think you'll find that what the hedge fund managers and investment bankers really wanted (and got) was Britains Veto in Europe last year.

The City was afraid that a Tobin Tax would cost them money.

Posted by: Dodgys smarter brother. Mar 30 2012, 09:02 AM

I doubt if Cameron is particularly envious, but maybe you're right. He could be. He's worth a little less than the others.

Posted by: GMR Mar 30 2012, 03:51 PM

Why should he when no other party will do the same? They all hold internal enquiries.

Posted by: GMR Mar 30 2012, 03:58 PM

No, that wasn't the question.




Excellent.




Some forces are outside ones controls. Not everything is in black and white. There won't be a party now or in the future (including the past) who won't have a rogue party member/ politician. It's life, even though not as us ordinary people know it.




I think you are being naive here. Read above. The problem with politicians (Blair being another good example) promise things that aren't realistic.





I agree he was slow but that doesn't mean he was "A slippery slimy Tory" putting it another way; he was no different than other politicians.

Posted by: GMR Mar 30 2012, 04:00 PM

You forgot to add that every Government before Cameron (Labour and Liberals) did the same. So it wasn't just normal practice of JUST the Tory party.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 30 2012, 05:38 PM

There should be policies regards this sort of thing. Was he working against policy?


So therefore, when it is spotted, none can be surprised when it is exposed. And none can be surprised that people resent them for doing it.


You said he was quick a while ago. Which is it?

Posted by: GMR Mar 30 2012, 07:52 PM

He was new to the job and he was probably trying to impress and overreached himself. A human failing. All politicians live on different worlds to us poor sods.




Agreed.





I can't remember what I said awhile back but I'll allow it to be whatever you want it to be.

Posted by: Cognosco Mar 30 2012, 08:25 PM

spoken like a true Blue at election time!

Posted by: Berkshirelad Mar 30 2012, 08:47 PM

The problem is that currently, the Commons has the right to produce legislation and can force it through against Lords opposition.

If the upper house were to be elected (by whatever method) then they could rightly claim that they too have a popular mandate and the primacy of the Commons would have to give; potentially causing a constitutional crisis

Posted by: GMR Mar 30 2012, 08:59 PM

I haven't voted for the Tories for at least 20 years and the wink ( ) at the end of my sentence should have been self explanatory. However, I do accept that humour passes some people by. Don't worry though as it probably is a genetic fault within some people.

Posted by: Squelchy Mar 31 2012, 08:36 AM

*sigh*




Labour leaders are voted for by party members, affiliated organisations, Labour M.P's and affiliated Trade Unions. As a union member you even have the right to opt-out of the political fund if you want. Seems far more democratic than the way Tory leaders just seem to emerge.




Cheer up, there are those who find the idea of voting for U.K.I.P quite comical. You continue to entertain.

Posted by: Cognosco Mar 31 2012, 10:43 AM

You sadly missed the point GMR.... I was implying that like a politician you were trying to infer that you would say or do anything to get a vote. Not a dig at your politics at all!

Posted by: blackdog Mar 31 2012, 04:23 PM

At least they would have a mandate - an appointed house is no more democratic than a hereditary one.

However, I don't see it as a problem - it would be easy enough to set up the 'upper' house to continue to be below the 'lower' house in the pecking order. As the 'Lords' would, if elected by PR, inevitably reflect the popular vote, it would rarely have a clear majority of any party - so it makes some sense for the lower house to be able to override it. Let's face it there must be some way for the Executive to get things done.

I also think that it would be good for the Executive to come primarily from the Lords - leaving the members of the commons to represent their constituents, rather than run government departments.

Posted by: Vodabury Mar 31 2012, 05:38 PM

Yes, and so some individuals get to vote several times!

Posted by: NWNREADER Mar 31 2012, 06:07 PM

Posted by: Squelchy Mar 31 2012, 06:23 PM

Individuals? SEVERAL times? Do go on.

Posted by: NWNREADER Mar 31 2012, 06:40 PM

I suspect that refers to a party member who is also a trade union member and maybe also a member of an affiliated organisation. Not really 3 votes, but the TU and associate block votes are based on the directions by the members to the relevant managing committees.

Posted by: Squelchy Mar 31 2012, 06:49 PM

You know it's not really three votes, as do I , but the statement was "individuals" "several times".

As opposed to a Tory, with a vote, who is also shareholder in a company which donates to a Tory Candidates Leadership expenses , with an M.P. on the board. (There are loads, let's face it). If that Tory also selects the local M.P. through the LCP then they get 'several' votes as well don't they?.

I don't think Vodabury has thought it through.

Posted by: Vodabury Mar 31 2012, 09:00 PM

OK, so just to clarify, you are sure it is "one person, one vote" in a Labour leadership election?

Posted by: Jayjay Mar 31 2012, 09:26 PM

It is possible to have multiple votes by joining the Labour party and different union bodies.

Posted by: Vodabury Mar 31 2012, 09:40 PM

Yes, and the voting patterns are available on The Labour Party website (links at the bottom of their home page). Not sure if <Squelchy> spotted this.

Posted by: Adrian Hollister Apr 1 2012, 09:51 AM

Michael Bishop donated £2k a year 2001-2010 on average to Conservatives. In 2010 he donated £730k. Within months he was given a peerage. Now as Lord Glendenbrook, he has only voted in the Lords 55% of the time and has never rebelled.

Tory democracy in action

Posted by: Ron Apr 1 2012, 11:00 AM

And as I said before, would your lot be any better?

Posted by: Cognosco Apr 1 2012, 02:05 PM

You have to speculate to accumulate you know! Not a bad return on his investment really?

Posted by: GMR Apr 1 2012, 04:38 PM

Actually I meant he acted quickly were the offender was concerned, but releasing the names of those that had dinner with him he was slow.






Yes, but it was the Unions that tiped the leadership in his favour otherwise his brother would have won.






I am cheered up thanks, however you seem to need a life if a few words on this forum entertains you. But then I suppose this forum serves some peoples needs (and life); so on that note I am glad I've done something to cheer up a dull existence.

Posted by: GMR Apr 1 2012, 04:41 PM

Sadly that is the same right across the board. Maybe it is because the voting public are so gullible. Maybe we should limit peoples voting ability to those that have the intelligence to comprehend what is in front of them.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 1 2012, 04:50 PM

Which are the actions of a slippery character.

Posted by: GMR Apr 1 2012, 05:45 PM

You say "slippery character" but I think it is unfair to single out Cameron when they are all the same; just look at Blair and Brown. Both far worse than Dave.

Another point. He didn't have to release anything as it was a private dinner that wasn't funded by the government/ tax payer. How could you call Cameron a slippery character when the others haven't released their private dinner engagements? I think this is more of a case of Tory bashing and being biased. If your comments were directed at all parties then I would say a fair point but your comments are directed as the Tories/ Cameron.

Posted by: Cognosco Apr 1 2012, 07:27 PM

Blair and Labour were in government a lot longer Dave has only been in a short time in comparison and if he keeps this Pace of gaffs up WBC & NTC could find they have some competition on there hands.

Did not Dave say before the election he wanted open and transparent government? Does it mean that if he pays for something out of his own pocket rather than the taxpayer then he does not have to be open and transparent? Anyway he did not pay for dinner did he? The tab was paid for by the investor who was paying contributions to ensure Dave carried out policies that were obviously in the investors favour. Otherwise why pay donations to a political party if you were not going to get anythng in return? That would be like not trying to avoid paying tax would it not?

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 1 2012, 08:33 PM

Fred West not being the only murderer ever, doesn't stop him being a murderer, nor does it excuse him.


My comments are directed at the prime minister. The lying Tory 'new sort of politics and no top down reorganised NHS' has been found out.

Posted by: GMR Apr 1 2012, 08:56 PM

Maybe you could tell me what gaffs? I wouldn't actually call this one a gaff; it was a dinner party.



Yes and he was talking about Lobbying. This wasn't lobbying but a dinner party. There is a distinction between the two.

Posted by: GMR Apr 1 2012, 08:59 PM

True, but we were only talking about a dinner party here, not lobbying.






That depends how you define lying? Also the NHS; depending on who you talk to depends on whether they agree on the changes or not. Many of the experts have said that the NHS will be made better.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 1 2012, 09:13 PM

Only a dinner party.


He announced no top down re-org of the NHS, but that is what we have.

Posted by: GMR Apr 1 2012, 11:31 PM

You've got it!




As the Tories couldn't win the election on their own the Manifesto's had to be renegotiated; for those that want PR then expect more such deals that aren't in the manifesto's.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 2 2012, 12:06 AM

That doesn't make sense. 'NHS top down reform' was in no manifesto. There's no mandate for it.

Posted by: Sherlock Apr 2 2012, 08:58 AM

Agreed. PR would definitely be disaster if it meant that members of a coalition could simply invent policies that none of them had trailed before an election.

If either the Libdems or Conservatives had told us that a wholesale sell-off of the NHS was on the cards, that they'd put in place legislation that paved the way for introducing across the board charges for services and would also by significantly reducing the Secretary of State's accountability and responsibility (all of which the Health and Social Care Act most certainly does - they wouldn't have been elected.

But as we now know, most of the movers and shakers they're not interested in what voters think just in making millions from their shares in healthcare firms and, no doubt, hugely lucrative consultancies when they're thrown out of office. The system's broke.

Posted by: Jo Pepper Apr 2 2012, 10:30 AM

I can't quite beleive that they are getting away with it. The Tories and their drones should be ashamed of themsleves. Blatent profiteering and not in our interests.

Posted by: Jayjay Apr 2 2012, 12:22 PM

Right, well lets start with Ken Clarke and his definition of rape, which he had to apologise for.

Then there is Liam Fox who stepped down for taking his friend on 18 'holidays'.

Move on to Oliver Letwin, who recycled constituents correspondence in park litter bins and of course Vince Cable who left his unshredded parliamentary papers in clear bags for recyling outside his hone.

Oliver Letwin yet again, who didn't want people from Sheffield going on cheap flights.

David Cameron and his 'looking two ways' insult to Pakistan, where he had to fly over and apologise, oh and he gave them quite a bit of money to say sorry - £600M.

David Cameron's claim more people were in work now under under Tories, when his own offices figures showed it was 26,000 less.

Posted by: Sherlock Apr 2 2012, 12:32 PM

Here's the Daily Telegraph spelling it out.

http://goo.gl/dnxzR

Repeat, the Daily Telegraph.

As the piece points out the only good news for Cameron and Clegg is that Labour are also in a complete mess.

Posted by: Dodgys smarter brother. Apr 2 2012, 12:48 PM

Just to help everybody:


Conservative Lords with Healthcare Connections:

1. Lord Ashcroft: Conservative benches and funder - Until 2010, held investments in two private healthcare groups.


2. Lord Ashton - Conservative - Shares in Marsh Inc insurance brokers and in Zurich Financial Services AG - In a review for the Department of Health of the NHS litigation Authority - written by Marsh Inc, it recommended involving opening up clinical negligence cover over to private insurers. Zurich Financial Insurers said they didn't have the expertise but the Marsh review envisaged opening up a dialogue which might eventually give them the information they needed. The DoH unsurprisingly accepted the large majority of Marsh's recommendations.
Lord Ashton also has shares in a private dental company called Smilepod Hygiene Ltd.


3. Lord Ballyedmond: Conservative - Chairman of pharmaceutical company Norbrook Laboratories.

4. Lord Bell: Conservative - Chairman of Chime Communications group, whose companies include Bell Pottinger, and whose lobbying clients include Southern Cross, BT Health and AstraZeneca. Tim Bell has a conviction for ‘wilfuly, openly and obscenely’ exposing himself ‘with intent to insult a female’ under Section 4 of the 1824 Vagrancy Act. For more on this delightful personality, which bears little relevance to the NHS but says so much about the character click here. If that isn't enough then please click here to see their attempts to work with the Ubekistan dictatorship.


5. Lord Blackwell: Conservatives - Chairman of Interserve, consultancy to NHS and private healthcare firms. Involved in PFI hospitals. Head of the Prime Minister's policy unit under John Major from 1995 to 1997 and was previously a member of Margaret Thatcher's policy unit. Was a partner with McKinsey and Company (involved in NHS bill - conflict of interest), between 1978 and 1994.
Quotes on bill: We are now 10 years further on from that and it is important that the changes are not lost in the voices that will always oppose changes that are necessary to reform the way that the NHS works. I hope that, while listening to those voices, the Minister can assure us that these essential reforms will be carried through and that the period of uncertainty for the NHS will not be any longer than it needs to be before we can get to the kind of reformed NHS that we all want to see.

6. Lord Blyth of Rowington: Conservative - Senior adviser to ­investment bankers Greenhill. Former Boots Chemists deputy chairman.
Tory Donor. Stands to gain from the break up and privatisation of the NHS wants and would surely like to buy the Walk in Centres at an agreed cut-price with Cameron.


7. Lord Boswell - Conservative - Has shares in Reckitt Benckiser which produces drugs for the NHS amongst other health institutions. NHS is currently suing Reckitt Benckiser for £90 million following an investigation that ruled the company had abused its dominant position in the heartburn market. The company has just paid a fine for £10.2 million in 2010 following a ruling by the Office of Fair Trading which found them guilty of illegal anti-compative behaviour relating to their heartburn product Gaviscon. Lord Boswell's shares have in brackets household part of the company, but in the end it is the same company. He also has shares in GlaxoSmithKline PLC pharmaceuticals.

8. Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone: Conservative - The former Conservative Health Secretary Virginia Bottomley is a Director of BUPA, the health insurance, private hospital and care group.
Quotes on bill: 'I give this Bill an unequivocal and extraordinarily warm welcome.'
'It is romantic poppycock to think that the Secretary of State should be personally involved ...'
9. Lord Brittan - Conservative - Advisor to Teijin who are a conglomerate of global companies. One part of the business is the medical and pharmaceutical business group. Teijin Home Healthcare Limited supply products to the NHS and Teijin Pharma Ltd provides pharmaceuticals to the NHS.


10. Baroness Byford - Conservative - has shares in Reckitt Benckiser (personal care). which produces drugs for the NHS amongst other health institutions. NHS is currently suing Reckitt Benckiser for £90 million following an investigation that ruled the company had abused its dominant position in the heartburn market. The company has just paid a fine for £10.2 million in 2010 following a ruling by the Office of Fair Trading which found them guilty of illegal anti-compative behaviour relating to their heartburn product Gaviscon.
Shares in GlaxoSmithKline pharmaceuticals which supply the NHS. Shares in Uniliver plc (domestic products) Unilever whose European venture capital arm Unilever Ventures joined with a company called Vectura to form a pharma arm to their company. Shares in Croda International plc which has a health division which products and has extensive links with the NHS.


11. Lord Carrington - Conservative - has shares in GlaxoSmithKline pharmaceuticals, suppliers to the NHS. shares in Unilever plc. Unilever has a European venture capital arm Unilever Ventures joined with a company called Vectura to form a pharma arm to their company. Although Lord Carrington's shares are stated as being in household products, in the end it is the same pot.


12. Lord Chadlington: Conservative - Chief executive of Huntsworth communications group with several lobbying firms. Huntsworth Health chaired a meeting on commissioning on behalf of Healthcare Communications Association, a group whose members consist of PR agencies and pharmaceutical companies. Members set to make increasing profits from the Health and Social care bill.


13. Lord Coe: Conservative - In February 2011 became Director of AMT-Sybex Group, IT supplier to the NHS. Same company that paid for a trip of former MP Robert Keys.

14. Baroness Cumberlege of Newick: Conservative - Former Tory health minister, runs Cumberlege Connections, a political networking firm that works "extensively" with the pharmaceutical industry. Used to be non-excutive director of PR firm for healthcare huntsworth PLC, of which Lord Chadlington is Chief Executive. Former executive director of healthcare consulting firm MJM healthcare solutions.
Quotes on bill: 'I applaud the flexibility of the Bill.'

15. Lord Dixon-Smith - Conservative - has shares in Vodaphone group plc - Vodaphone produced a report by themselves, which showed how they can help drive efficiency in healthcare costs promoting the use of SMS texts which go via them and other mobile phone companies. South-Central ambulance service NHS trust have appointed Vodaphone UK as its communications partner.

16. Baroness Eccles - Conservative - Has shares in GlaxoSmithKline (Healthcare) - GlaxoSmith Kline. GSK is the UK's leading supplier of COPD medicines.
Quote on the bill. 'My Lords, I am delighted to support this bill.' 'I hope that this bill will initiate a sea change in the way that we approach the nation's health...'


17. Lord Edmiston - Conservative - Shareholdings in Bupa Finance plc - a Bupa director is Baroness Bottomley - Bupa provides health insurance, private hospital and care group in direct competition with the NHS. Shares in Fidelity International Ltd, which acquired Telehealth Solutions Ltd in 2011 - Telehealth have partners in the NHS and private healthcare - and has several contracts with the NHS. Has won award for work in the NHS and telehealthcare is promoted by Andrew Lansley.


18. Lord Feldman of Elstree - Conservative - Shares in BTG pharmaceuticals - BGT are a UK company that manages commercialisation activity in pharmaceuticals. BTG acquired Biocompatiibles in 2010. Biocompatibles supplies medical devices.


19. Lord Feldman - Conservative - Shares in Inverness Medical, now Alere, a global healthcare company who work with many PCTs including the 'healthcheck programme.'


20. Lord Fink - Conservative - Director of multiple companies including: The Global PR network Ltd, which covers the health and medical sector, in which he has shares. Chairman and Director of Zenith hygiene Group plc, an approved NHS supplier. Shares run independently by Lombard Odier the company in charge of his share portfolio include: Abbott Laboratories ltd (pharmaceuticals), Allianz SE, which offers medical insurance, Prudential plc, which offers private health insurance, Siemens AG, which supplies medical equipment to the NHS, Vodaphone group.


21. Lord Forsyth of Drumlean: Conservative - Sits on the board of the Centre for policy studies. Included in his biography interests are 'privatisation' and 'healthcare'. Senior adviser to ­Evercore, bank involved in huge healthcare deals. Newly appointed Senior Managing Director of Evercore Mr Maisonrouge said: 'Evercore has advised on some of the most noteworthy healthcare transactions.'


22. Lord Freeman: Conservative - The ex-health minister is chairman of the Advisory Board of ­PricewaterhouseCoopers, which claims to have “been at the heart of shaping ­[healthcare] reforms and working with clients to respond to the opportunities they present”. Director of Parity Group plc - Parity group plc won a contract with NHS direct to develop and support a new Health Information Search Portal for £1.4 million. Lord Freeman became non-executive chairman in 2007.


23. Lord Garel-Jones: Conservative - MD of UBS bank, whose healthcare division earned the firm over $1billion since 2005.


24. Lord Glendonbrook - Conservative - Has shares in Ansell Ltd NPV (healthcare), Abbott Laboratories, supplies NHS with Lab equipment, reagents. Shares in Astrazeneca biopharaceuticals - The NHS is the primary customer for Astrazeneca medicines in the UK. Shares in GlaxoSmithKline Ord 25p (healthcare), GlaxoSmithKline (healthcare), Johnson & Johnson, which supplies the NHS. Shares in Novartis who threatened to pull out of the UK becaue the NHS safety trial rules. Shares in Novo Nordisk (pharmaceuticals) supplies NHS, shares in Pfizer Inc (pharmaceuticals) supplies NHS. Shares in Serco group, which has multiple contracts with NHS including PFI hospitals. Shares in Siemens AG, which supplies medical equipment to the NHS. Shares in Smith & Nephew, hip-replacement and bandaging group. Unilver plc, whose European venture capital arm Unilever Ventures joined with a company called Vectura to form a pharma arm to their company.

25. Viscount Goschen - Conservative - is paid by though it doesn't say in which capacity by Korn/Ferry International - is an international executive search firm - they run healthcare services - Among the diverse range of healthcare organisations they have secured and developed top healthcare executives for are in hospital systems, multi-specialty physician practices, pharmacy benefit management companies, long-term care/assisted-living companies, home health companies, healthcare associations, and other service delivery companies.

Vanni Treves who is a director elect of Homerton Hospital NHS Trust, is also chair of Korn/Ferry International and Intertek Group Plc.

In 1993 when Virginia Bottomley was health secretary, Korn Ferry made the news when it was revealed Oxford Regional Health Authority forked out £30,000 to Korn Ferry to find its new £80,000-a-year chief executive; Oxford District Health Authority spent pounds £60,000 to get its new chief executive and director of finance; and Oxford Family Health Services Authority paid £30,000 for a replacement chief executive.

The worst thing about this particular case is that, for one of the posts, the company did little more than place an advert in newspapers and draw up a short list.' No doubt Koln Ferry will be recruiting for the new NHS.


26. Lord Griffiths of Fforestfach: Conservative - Director of Goldman Sachs bank, provider of services to healthcare firms. Chief executive of Circle Ali Parsa was an Executive Director of Goldman Sachs.

27. Lord Hamilton of Epsom - Conservative: Has a directorship with MSB Ltd (managing consultancy), who have NHS, Bupa and CareUK listed as their clients. Care UK chairman John Nash funded Andrew Lansley's office.

Quotes: 'My Lords, surely one of the problems of the National Health Service is the wall of money that was thrown at a totally unreformed NHS by the last Government? Do we not need management consultants now to show us the way forward on the savings that need to be wrung out of the NHS so that it can survive into the future?' Hansard source (Citation: HL Deb, 13 February 2012, c556)

Earl Howe responded - Yes, we do, my Lords. Part of the benefit of the modernisation programme will be to streamline the architecture of the NHS.



28. Lord Hayhoe - Conservative - shares in Abbott Laboratories ltd (pharmaceuticals, and medical products) supplies NHS.

29. Baron Higgins of Worthing: Conservative - Holds in excess of £50,000 of shares in Lansdowne UK Equity Fund, backers of private hospital group Circle Holdings. Voted loyally.

30. Lord Hill - Conservative - Shares in Huntsworth plc - company funded the Conservative party - the founder and chairman is Lord Chadlington. Huntsworth gave £15,500 to the Conservative party in August last year and has given money every year since 2008. Following the exposure, Huntsworth were forced to admit they had given money stating the money was given by buying tickets for ‘Conservative events’, a classic way for lobbying to take place. Furthermore, Lord Chadlington, and his wife have personally given more than £20,000 to the local party since 2007, including a sum of £10,000 for his leadership campaign.


31. Baroness Hooper: Conservative - Until July 11, chairman of Advisory Committee of Barclays Infrastructure Funds, one of the most experienced investors in hospital PFI deals.

32. Lord Howard of Lympne: Conservative - Senior adviser to ­Hawkpoint Partners, a corporate finance firm. Provide staff to NHS and Private Healthcare providers. Lord Howard replaced Douglas Hurd in early 2011, thus keeping the connection of influence in parliament. Andrew Lansley met Hawkpoint partners for dinner on 30th June 2011. What was said?

33. Lord Hunt of Wirral: Conservative - Partner in Beachcroft, a law firm that offers incisive analysis on the full range of government, parliamentary and regulatory matters in the health sector.

34. Baroness James - Conservative - has shares in AstraZeneca (pharmaceuticals). The NHS is the primary customer for Astrazeneca medicines in the UK. GlaxoSmithKline plc (healthcare) supplies the NHS. Shares in Reckitt Benckiser Group plc, which produces drugs for the NHS amongst other health institutions. NHS is currently suing Reckitt Benckiser for £90 million following an investigation that ruled the company had abused its dominant position in the heartburn market. Serco Group (business services), which has multiple contracts with NHS including PFI hospitals. Smith and Nephew (healthcare) supplies hip replacement and bandaging to the NHS. Shares in Vodafone Group (communications) - Vodaphone produced a report by themselves, which showed how they can help drive efficiency in healthcare costs promoting the use of SMS texts which go via them and other mobile phone companies. South-Central ambulance service NHS trust have appointed Vodaphone UK as its communications partner.

35. Lord Lang of Monkton: Conservative - Director of Marsh & McLennan Companies that "help hospitals, insurers, pharmaceutical companies and industry associations understand the implications of changing policy environments".
36. Lord Lawson - Conservative - Chairman of Oxford Investment Partners whose investment management team 'has more than 50 years of investment experience with a dedicated focus on communications, healthcare and sustainability. Lawson once said 'the NHS was the closest thing the English had to a religion'. Perhaps the closet thing the Lords have to a religion is money? Oxford Capital Partners invested £550,000 in Oxitec Ltd led investments in a number of science and technology companies including several spin outs from UK universities. Our current investment portfolio includes 8 university spin outs of which four are from the University of Oxford: Avidex (drug discovery); g-Nostics (pharmacogenetics); Oxonica (nanotechnology)

37. Lord Lloyd-Webber - Conservative - Shares in Catlin Group Limited, began writing Healthcare Professional Liability insurance in London in 1994. They offer extensive knowledge of medical, healthcare and pharmaceutical markets. Shares in Smiths Group plc, which produces medical equipment. Shares in AstraZeneca (pharmaceuticals). The NHS is the primary customer for Astrazeneca medicines in the UK. Shares in Gilead Sciences, a research-based pharmaceutical company, which supplies the NHS. hares in GlaxoSmithKline (pharmaceuticals), and Johnson & Johnson (pharmaceuticals), which both supply to the NHS. Standad life, which supply Private Medical Insurance plans to both corporate and individual customers and have an extensive range of healthcare products. Raffles medical group - operates a network of 74 multi-disciplinary clinics across Singapore. Shares in Stryker Corporation orthopedic market and is one of the world’s largest medical device companies. Has voted in 1.49% of votes in this House with this affiliation — well below average amongst Lords. (From Public Whip). Voted in the Health and Social care bill on commissioning.


38. Lord Macfarlane: Conservative - Has shares in Prudential plc, which offers private health insurance. Shares in Aviva plc, which offers private health care. Shares in Smith & Nephew (Pharmaceuticals) hip-replacement and bandaging group.Has voted in 6.25% of votes in this House with this affiliation — well below average amongst Lords. (From Public Whip). Voted on the Health and Social Care bill.


39. Lord Magan of Castletown: Conservative - Director of the SISK Group of healthcare companies. Member of the advisory board on Axa Private equity, which invests heavily in healthcare.


40. Lord Maple - Shares in Berkshire Hathaway Inc the company run by Warren Buffet - the conglomerate invests heavily in private healthcare companies - 6 out of their 41 stocks are in healthcare. Voted loyally on the Health and Social Care bill.


41. Lord Marland - Shares in Tristel Ltd plc - a leading provider of infection control products into the NHS. Shares in Jardine Lloyd Thompson plc - their website states 'the placing and serving of healthcare insurance...is a specialist field in which we excel.' Their insurance covers hospitals, Physician cover, Clinics, Long-term care, allied health professionals and more. Voted loyally on the Health and Social Care bill.


42. Lord McColl - Conservative - was a paid a fee as a consultant to a new private healthcare company that provides a fee-paying rival to the National Health Service’s family doctor service.

Endeavour Health, which was set up by two hedge fund advisers, claims to be Britain’s first comprehensive GP network, offering access to the best doctors and the opportunity to beat NHS queues and have appointments at any time they want. Endeavour Health was founded last year by two financial advisers, Briton Yadin Shemmer and American Jonathan Weiss, to compete with the NHS. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8209292.stm has since claimed no ties with the company.


43. Lord Moore: Conservative - Shares in Johnson & Johnson, which supplies the NHS. Merck & Co inc (pharmaceuticals, Novartis AG (pharmaceuticals), which supplies the NHS. Shares in BT group, which is one of the largest suppliers of communications to the NHS. BT was involved in the failed NHS computer system overhaul. Shares in Vodaphone group: Vodaphone produced a report by themselves, which showed how they can help drive efficiency in healthcare costs promoting the use of SMS texts which go via them and other mobile phone companies. South-Central ambulance service NHS trust have appointed Vodaphone UK as its communications partner. Has voted in only 14.53% of votes below average, but managed to vote on all the Health and Social Care ones.


44. Lord Naseby: Conservative - Was until October 2011 Chairman of and a share-holder in Invesco Perpetual Recovery Trust. Trust voluntarily wound down on October 27th 2011 - One fifth of their investments were in pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies.
Quotes on bill: 'I want to make it clear that I support the Bill. More importantly, I support the need for the Bill.'

'Finally, competition is good for any industry...Competition gives people pride and responsibility.'

45. Baron Newton of Braintree: Conservative - Advisor to Oasis Healthcare on dentistry and general healthcare matters.


46. Baroness Noakes - Conservative - Shares in BT Group (communications), which is one of the largest suppliers of communications to the NHS. BT was involved in the failed NHS computer system overhaul. Shares in Astrazeneca (Pharmaceuticals) - The NHS is the primary customer for Astrazeneca medicines in the UK. GlaxoSmithKline (pharmaceuticals) supplies the NHS. Vodaphone Group plc, Vodaphone produced a report by themselves, which showed how they can help drive efficiency in healthcare costs promoting the use of SMS texts which go via them and other mobile phone companies. South-Central ambulance service NHS trust have appointed Vodaphone UK as its communications partner.
Quotes on the bill: I hope that other noble Lords will not encourage the Government to keep any limits which constrain the NHS from maximising its assets for the purposes of the NHS.'

47. Lord Patten - Conservative - Senior Advisor for Charterhouse Development Capital Ltd - who purchased Tunstall for £510 Million in 2008. Tunstall are a Telecare provider. Tunstall provides services that allow the elderly to be able to be monitored remotely. Chief executive of Tunstall supported Andrew Lansley's bill. Following the takeover in 2008, Tunstall were awarded a three-year contract for services to NHS North Yorkshire and North. Tunstall have also been given a framework agreement to provide telecare, telehealth and telecoaching to NHS services, which forms part of Andrew Lansley's vision for developing telecare across the UK. The framework agreement began on 16th of August 2010. Has voted on 27.52% of votes in the Lords, below average amongst Lords. Voted on the Health and Social Care bill.


49. Lord Popat - Conservative - Founder of TLC group Ltd who run private care homes. Lord Popat gave David Cameron a donation as a gift for £25,000 a week after the Conservatives' unveiled their health 'reforms'. David Cameron made businessman a peer shortly after getting into ten Downing street. Voted on the Health and Social Care bill loyally.

50. Lord Ribeiro: Conservative - Adviser on hospital reorganisation to PricewaterhouseCoopers (PWC). PWC is heavily involved in consultancy services to the NHS and gets paid for setting up contracts amongst many other services.


51. Lord Saatchi - A partner and shares in M&C Saatchi plc - a marketing company. Involved in multiple campaign projects for the governement including the Change4Life project aimed at promoting healthier living to tackle obesity. M&C Saatchi also worked for PPP healthcare, AXA insurance. Saatchi have multiple pharmaceutical clients, including; Astrazeneca, Pfizer and Merck. There website says: 'We transform raw data about life-changing brands into real meaning for healthcare professionals.' Has voted in 15.33% of votes in the house - well below average. Voted on key parts of the Health and Social Care bill.


52. Earl of Selborne: Shares in Prudential, which offers private health insurance.


53. Lord Sheikh: Chairman and director of Macmillan Sheikh plc - insurance and financial services which offers private health insurance - voted loyally on Health and Social care bill.


54. Lord Sheppard - Has shares in Diageo, a drinks company who have been awarded money to teach midwives in England and Wales on the dangers of alcohol. No, you can't make it up. Lansley used to hold a directorship at Profero who had Diageo as one of their clients.


55. Lord Swinfen - Unpaid director of Swinfen Charitable Trust who have American Telemedicine Association as their partners for global crisis work using telehealth technology. Lord Swinfen is also an unpaid director of The American Telemedicine Association, which has multiple members who supply the NHS and private health care. The members according to the website: 'Play a special role in shaping the future of the telemedicine industry. The American Telemedicine Association has written a new legislative proposal to the American congress to expand the use of telemedicine. Voted loyally on Health and Social Care bill. Telecare is expanding throughout the NHS as a way of treating people from home. These companies that are part of the American Telemedicine Association are set to benefit.

56. Lord Tugendhat - Conservative: Shares in MetLife, which is America's largest life insurance company also operates in the UK. It offers accident protection for clinical health care workers, to cover specified infectious illnesses contracted at work for those who work in the UK health care industry.It also offers health insurance. Set to benefit from the Health and Social Care bill. Has voted in 25.43% of votes in this House with this affiliation — below average amongst Lords. (From Public Whip) - Voted loyally for the Health and Social Care bill. Supported large chunks of the bill, but spoke out against the top-down re-organisation.
Quotes on the bill: 'The Government's mistake was to introduce a Bill that sought to impose a massive programme of management and structural change on top of an ambitious cost-cutting programme.' Declared his interest as chairman of the Imperial College healthcare trust, but not of his shareholdings in MetLife.

Adviser to Trilantic Capital Partners, a private equity firm “active” in healthcare.

57. Lord Wade - Director, unpaid of RisingStars Growth Fund Ltd an early stage venture capital company - The fund prefers to invest in amongst other sectors, healthcare. Rising Stars Growth Fund invests in multiple healthcare companies that supply the NHS. Has voted in 28.33% of votes in this House with this affiliation — below average amongst Lords. (From Public Whip)

58. Lord Wakeham: Conservative - Advisor to L.E.K. Consulting, which specialises in helping private healthcare companies identify "growth and new business development" and "opportunities with the government".

59. Lord Waldegrave - Tory Adviser, UBS Investment Bank UBS bank, whose healthcare division earned the firm over $1billion since 2005. Fellow Tory peer Lord Garel-Jones is MD of UBS bank. Has voted in 7.88% of votes in this House with this affiliation — well below average amongst Lords. (From Public Whip) - Voted in key votes on the Health and Social care bill. Director of Biotech Growth Trust plc - which is managed by Orbimed. OrbiMed is the world's largest healthcare-dedicated investment firm, with approximately $5 billion in assets under management.

60. Lord Wasserman - Conservative - Shares in Diageo plc an alcohol drinks company who have been awarded money to teach midwives in England and Wales on the dangers of alcohol. No, you can't make it up. Lansley used to hold a directorship at Profero who had Diageo as one of their clients. Shares in Johnson & Johnson Inc, which supplies the NHS. Shares in Procter & Gamble Co, which supplies the NHS. Walgreen Company - American pharmaceutical company. For more on Walgreens. The bill will give pharmaceuticals even more diverse healthcare providers to build relationships with. Voted loyally on the Health and Social Care bill.

61. Baroness Wheatcroft: Conservative: Business Consultant, DLA Piper (legal services) a global law firm providing lobbying services to “clients in the health and social care sectors”. DLA Piper, which advised ministers on the failed £12 billion IT project for the NHS. Member of the Advisory Board, Pelham Bell Pottinger (financial and corporate communications) - Bell Pottinger whose lobbying clients include Southern Cross, BT Health and AstraZeneca. For more on Pottinger see Lord Pottinger. Voted loyally on the Health and Social Care bill.

62. Lord Wolfson - Conservative - Shares in Cable & Wireless plc - Cable & Wireless solutions for the Health Sector are 'intended to meet all the communications requirements of the health service, from the largest Trusts to the smallest GP surgeries. Some offer special features, and the service levels are available exclusively to NHS customers.' The services have already been selected through the NHS procurement procedure

Liberal Democrat Lords with Healthcare Connections

63. Lord Alliance: Shares in Huntsworth plc - a company whose CEO is Lord Chadlington - which £15,500 to the party in August last year and has given money every year since 2008. Denied it at first but Electoral Commission found them out. The same company that had Baroness Cumberledge as one of their non-executive directors. Heavily involved in lobbying and PR.


64. Lord Clement-Jones: Partner in DLA Piper, a global law firm providing lobbying services to “clients in the health and social care sectors”. DLA Piper counts Southern Cross amongst its clients. Lord Clement-Jones nominated Lord Hameed for his peerage, a nomination supported by Lord Dholakia. Lord Hameed sits on the board of Alpha hospitals, part of the Alpha Healthcare (C&C Alpha/C&C business solutions) group. The Alpha group has made significant donations to the Liberal Democrat party. In 2008, Lord Clement-Jones was the party treasurer. The Times exposed Lord Clement-Jones as being the man who nominated Lord Hameed, after the peer had originally said he had 'no idea.' Ownership of Alpha is usually assigned to Bhanu Dhruv Choudhrie who were accused of brokering an israeli arms deal.


65. Lord Lee: Shares in United Drug plc (Pharmaceuticals) - Provide home-based pharmacy care for patients covered by the NHS as a joint venture from 2009 with Medco Health Solutions.

66. Lord Lester: Has shares in Investor AB an investment company that invests in healthcare companies amongst other sectors. One company is Gambro, a global medical technology company, which sells its products to the NHS. Voted loyally with the bill amendments.

67. Lord Rennard: Director, British Healthcare Trades Association (BHTA) - Voted loyally on the Health and Social Care bill - The BHTA's purpose, as a trade association, is to ensure that the market for healthcare and assistive technologies is competitive, profitable and well-regulated. They work in partnership with industry, government, and other stakeholders. Set up a communications company with his wife called Rennard & McTegart Ltd. through this company provides public affairs advice to the British Healthcare Trade Association. Rennard & McTegart Ltd provide management, campaign, communications and fund raising consultancy.

68. Lord Sharman: Is the chairman of Aviva, has directorship and Shareholdings in Aviva plc - his being chairman is not registered in the register of interests - Aviva sells health insurance and will likely benefit from any increase in privatisation - they promote how you don't have to have waiting times if you take out insurance with them. Dr Doug Wright, principal clinical consultant at Aviva Health UK, said "I think we could start to see waiting lists increase again, especially for some of the elective procedures that are within the traditional medical insurance territory," Dr Wright said. Earlier this month, a spokesman for the Association of British Insurers noted that health insurance could be a "very useful product" for many people in the UK to take advantage of.
69. Lord steel: Non-executive Director, General Mediterranean Holding SA is a Business group with activities in amongst other sectors Trading & Pharmaceuticals. The http://www.gmhsa.com/images/spacer.gifIndustrial, Trading & Pharmaceuticals part is split into two companies of interest. Meditech UK Ltd has software currently installed at ten medical facilities in the UK including the NHS. MEDITECH is the leading supplier of healthcare information systems in North America. The other company is Crescent Pharma Ltd which directly and indirectly supplies a wide range of major distributors and customers within the UK, including the NHS.

70. Lord Taverne: Chairman of private health insurer Axa Sun Life’s monitoring board. Shares in Unilever whose European venture capital arm Unilever Ventures joined with a company called Vectura to form a pharma arm to their company. Shares in GlaxoSmithKline, who provide products to the NHS. Has shares in a company called Informa which provides authoritative research and analysis and up-to-the-minute business news, comment and events for all sectors of the healthcare, medical and life sciences communities. They present their findings to clients who then invest based on their reports. Has shares in Legal and General, which provides healthcare insurance.

71. Lord Vallance: Member, International Advisory Board, Allianz SE (insurance) - company offers medical insurance. Also Member, Supervisory Board, Siemens AG - which supplies medical equipment to the NHS. Voted loyally - and against Lord Rea's proposal of declining to give the bill a second reading.

72. Lord Watson: Chairman, Havas Media UK - MPG Media Contacts is an integrated agency, 100% owned by Havas Media. In April 2011 - MPG Media Contacts won the integrated media planning and buying account for Circle Health, the healthcare partnership that runs and builds hospitals.The account is worth just under £1m, according to MPG Media Contacts, and the scope of the work covers offline and online channels in the UK.

Circle, which became the first private UK firm to run an NHS hospital last year when it won the tender to run Hinchingbrooke Hospital, plans to build a network of 30 hospitals across the UK in the coming years.

Paul Frampton, managing director, MPG Media Contacts, said: "We're proud to be working with Circle, which does an excellent job in the Healthcare sector.

"Our primary aim will be to deliver them an integrated media strategy that will bring them real value this year."

Labour Lords

73. Baroness Billingham: Regular contributions to Cumberlege Connections a training company for training NHS personnel and is a political networking firm that works "extensively" with the pharmaceutical industry.

74. Lord Carter: The head of the increasingly influential Competition and Cooperation Panel, is an adviser to Warburg Pincus International Ltd, a private equity firm with significant investments in the healthcare industry. Chairman Patrick Carter, or Lord Carter of Coles to give him his full title, was the founder of Westminster Health Care, a leading private nursing home company. He is also the Chair of McKesson Information Solutions Ltd, which delivers IT to “virtually every NHS organisation”, the chair of Primary Group Ltd, a Bermudan based private equity company, and a substantial shareholder in, among other companies, B-Plan Information Systems Ltd, which has also benefited from the increased need for large scale IT systems that the introduction of an internal market to the NHS has brought with it (see the interview with Frank Wood, of King’s foundation trust, where B-Plan has worked, in the last news update). Carter’s register of interests in the House of Lords also lists him as an adviser to Warburg Pincus International Ltd, a private equity firm, which has significant investments in the healthcare industry. It even rescued United Healthcare from financial ruin in 1987 and helped it to become one of the largest healthcare companies in the world. He can now help it to become one of the biggest beneficiaries of the government’s reforms. - http://www.corporatewatch.org/?lid=3934

75. Viscount Chandos: Director of investment management company Sand Eire limited - who invest amongst other sectors, in Healthcare.

76. Lord Darzi: Labour - Former surgeon drafted into government as a health minister by Gordon Brown when he was PM. Now an adviser to medical technology firm GE Healthcare.
Quotes on bill: he would find it 'difficult at this stage' to vote for blocking the Bill...'I am speaking as a surgeon, not a politician.'


77. Lord Davies of Abersoch: A non-executive Director of Diageo. Lansley used to hold a directorship at Profero who had Diageo as one of their clients. Diageo plc are an alcohol drinks company who have been awarded money to teach midwives in England and Wales on the dangers of alcohol. Vice Chairman and partner in Corsair Capital llc, who have amongst others Axis Capital holdings in their portfolio, providers of healthcare insurance products. Shares in HSBC who are heavily involved in PFI hospitals.

78. Lord Eatwell: Economic Adviser at Warburg Pincus & Co International Ltd, a private equity firm with significant investments in the healthcare industry. Economic advisor to Palamon Capital Partners LLP, who also heavily invest in private healthcare.

79. Lord Elder: Advisor to pharmaceutical company Daval International Ltd

80. Lord Evans of Watford: Labour - Director of ­healthcare property firm Care Capital.

81. Lord Filkin: Labour - Adviser to outsourcing giant Serco, heavily involved in NHS services.

82. Baroness Ford: Chairman of private healthcare company, Barchester Healthcare Ltd. Part of the NHS Partners Network. Chairman of Grove Ltd, a holding company for for Barchester Health.

83. Lord Gavron: Has shares in Serco, Smith & Nephew plc, Diageo, Unilever, Astrazeneca, GlaxoSmithKline, Rhoen-Klinikum AG (private healthcare), Roche Holdings AG, Fresenius Medical Care AG, Sanofi-Aventis, Vodaphone Group plc, Prudential Life.

84. Lord Goldsmith: Partner in International law firm Debevoise & Plimpton LLP, whose clients include: Bayer; Bristol Myers Squibb; Forest Laboratories; Galderma; GlaxoSmithKline; Hisamitsu; Johnson & Johnson; Merck; Nestlé; Novartis; L’Oréal; Pfizer; Schering-Plough; and Tenet Healthcare, among others.'85. Lord Grocott: Trainer at Cumberlege Connections Ltd: (See Baroness Cumberlege).

86. Lord Harris of Haringey: Senior adviser to business services giant KPMG, who are heavily involved in implementing changes in the NHS and its commissioning groups Wyeth Pharmaceuticals 2001. Remunerated by Cumberlege Connections Ltd for occasional participation in training events. See Baroness Cumberlege.

87. Lord Hollick: Has shares in multiple companies involved in healthcare, which include: Diageo, Ambea, HCA, Capsugel.

88. Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: Consultant and Trainer at Cumberlege Connections Ltd: See Baroness Cumberlege.

89. Lord Hutton of Furness: Ex-health minister is an adviser to law firm Eversheds. Clients include care homes and private hospitals.
90. Baroness Jay: Occasional participation in seminars for Cumberlege Connections. Company that is a training company NHS personnel and a political networking firm that works "extensively" with the pharmaceutical industry.

91. Lord Kestenbaum: Member of the board of directors of marketing agency Profero. Andrew Lansley was a director of Profero until the end of 2009. Diageo an alcohol company was one of their clients which went onto to be awarded a contract to talk about alcohol to midwives so that they can advise Mothers. Profero have contributed to the NHS Change4Life campaign to get more people to exercise.

92. Baroness Kingsmill: Non exec director of Korn/Ferry International, an executive recruitment firm. Among the diverse range of healthcare organisations they have secured and developed top healthcare executives for are in hospital systems, multi-specialty physician practices, pharmacy benefit management companies, long-term care/assisted-living companies, home health companies, healthcare associations, and other service delivery companies. Two other peers work for them. Deputy Chairman of PricewaterhouseCoopers, which claims to have “been at the heart of shaping ­[healthcare] reforms and working with clients to respond to the opportunities they present”.

93. Lord Leitch: Bupa chairman. Non Exec director of Bupa.
94. Baroness Liddell: Associate member of Bupa.

95. Lord McConnellof Glenscorrodale: Member of the advisory board to accountants and auditors PricewaterhouseCoopers. See Baroness Kingsmill.

96. Baroness McDonagh: Non Executive Director of Standard Life plc, which offers private health insurance.

97. Baroness Mallalieu: Has shares in Diageo (See Andrew Lansley), and pharmaceutical giant Reckitt Benckiser. Shares in Oryx International a closed-end investment company incorporated in Guernsey, which invests in healthcare.

98. Lord Malloch-Brown: Chairman of FTI Global Affairs an advisory firm, which helps companies in the healthcare sector amongst others. On his appointment in 2010 he said: "Lord Malloch-Brown said, "The global economy has reached a tipping point, with Western companies under great pressure to shift their footprint towards emerging markets."

99. Lord Mandelson: Senior Advisor at Lazard Ltd, an international advisory investment bank, which includes the area of healthcare.

100. Lord Moonie: Advisor for Edinburgh-based healthcare and biosecurity company Americum. Former senior advisor to pharmaceutical company Pharmathene Ltd. Lord Moonie, previously accused in cash for influence scandal.

101. Baroness Morgan of Huyton: Ex-director of failed care home firm Southern Cross. Member of the advisory Committee board for Virgin Group Holdings Ltd.


102. Lord Myners: Non-Executive Director of RIT Capital partners plc, who according to their annual report invest extensively in healthcare. Also has shares in company.

103. Lord Noon: Director of Nutrahealth plc is a holding company which is 100% owned subsidiary of Elder Pharmaceuticals Ltd, an Indian based healthcare company since November 2010. The businesses operated in the UK are Biocare, Brunel Health and Totally Nourish. Shares in Casualty Plus Ltd - private walk-in clinic.

104. Lord Puttnam: Director of Huntsworth communications group. global public relations and integrated healthcare communications group. Did not stand for the board this year (2012). Deputy chair of Profero (See Andrew Lansley). Senior Non-executive director of Promethean World plc a technological hardware company, which according to its annual reports a new division was created, which amongst other sectors included healthcare.
105. Lord Sainsbury of Turville: Has shares in multiple companies involved in private healthcare including: Becton Dickinson, Hospira Inc, Vodafone plc (See Baroness James), JP Morgan (See Lord Renwick), Quest Diagnostics Inc, Johnson & Johnson.

106. Lord Sawyer: Chair of Norlife, part of a government led initiative called LIFT, set up as partnership project in the county of Norfolk creating PFI projects, which include

107. Lord Simpson: Shares in multiple healthcare companies including Reckitt Benckiser, Standard Chartered Bank plc, GlaxoSmithKline, Vodafone plc.

108. Baroness Symans of Vernham Dean: International consultant for legal firm DLA Piper a global law firm providing lobbying services to “clients in the health and social care sectors”. DLA Piper counts Southern Cross amongst its clients and advised on the failed £12 billion NHS I.T. project.

109. Lord Warner: Labour - Former adviser to Apax Partners, one of the leading global investors in the healthcare sector. Current director of Sage Advice Ltd. Works as an adviser to Xansa, a technology firm, and Byotrol, an antimicrobial company, which both sell services or products to the NHS” and was “paid by DLA Piper, which advised ministers on the £12 billion IT project for the NHS” projects that he was responsible for when he was a government minister. Lord Warner explains his role here.

Crossbench Peers

110. Lord Adebowale: Non-executive director and shares in St Vincent's healthcare consulting company that offers consultancy to the healthcare market. Their partners include: BT Health, IOCOM and AXSys.
111. Lord Boyce: Non-executive director of global engineering and design company WS Atkins - who are involved in multiple PFI projects and NHS building projects including, Tayside Murray Royal Hospital, Ayrshire & Arran Community Health Trust, Cummock Community hospital, and Doncaster & South Humber healthcare.


Chairman of D Group advisory board. D Group is a business development and networking group, which according to its website is 'dedicated to generating revenues and promoting the objectives of its members.' They have over 70 members consisting of UK and International leading business, though they are not listed. However in their testimonial page one company is mentioned BT group plc, which is one of the largest suppliers of communications to the NHS. BT was involved in the failed NHS computer system overhaul. The testimonial of BT group PLC says 'The D Group provides effective and discreet access to influential thinkers and policy makers on important topics.'

112. Lord Chorley: Shares in Pharmaceutical giant Astrazeneca, private health insurance providers Prudential and Legal and General and banking group Standard Chartered, which invests in healthcare companies and offers health insurance. Shares in Reckitt Benckiser, in Unilever, and IBM, the latter supply software to the NHS.


113. Lord Currie of Marylebone: Chairman of Semperian, an investment vehicle, which owns a portfolio of mature Public Private Partnership investments, including hospitals.

114. Lord Elystan: Has bonds held in HSBC-controlled companies - According to a Times report in 2008, HSBC made almost £100 million from managing NHS hospitals where where contractors charge taxpayers inflated bills for simple tasks, such as £210 to fit an electrical socket. HSBC has a controlling stake of several hospitals, including outright ownership of three NHS hospitals, located in Barnet, Central Middlesex, and West Middlesex. HSBC used a legal loophole to handle the profits from PFI schemes to a tax haven in Guernsey. HSBC offer health insurance. Lord Elystan also hold shares in Santander which offers health insurance and funds heavily in healthcare projects and companies.

115. Earl of Errol: Chair on the Advisory board of software intelligence company Flexeye Ltd. The company develop security applications and platforms, which supplies the NHS. The Company's healthcare website says: 'Flexeye's Health Information Tool (HIP) is a communication tool designed especially for the healthcare system.' Paid by Nihilent Technologies PVT Ltd in unspecified capacity, an IT, consulting and outsourcing company. Worked on multiple healthcare projects in multiple countries.

116. Baroness Grey-Thompson: 'Advisory' work for official Olympic sponsors and pharmaceutical giant GlaxoSmithKline. The role is contractual to give internal talks to staff and PR regarding their activation programme. The programme involves, a partnership with NHS London to inspire people with a variety of long-term conditions to to understand the benefits of an active lifestyle. Has given two speaking engagements paid for by Proctor and Gamble, paid on an ad hoc basis and not contractual.
117. Lord Guthrie of Craigiebank: Member of the advisory board of Cannacord Genuity a global capital markets division of Cannacord financial Inc. Their website states: 'Cannacord Genuity focusses on public and private healthcare companies, at all stages of development.'
118. Lord Hameed: Chair of private secure mental health hospital group Alpha Hospitals, which is investing in a new acute private hospital in central London. Alpha hospitals. part of the Alpha Healthcare (C&C Alpha/C&C business solutions) group. The Alpha group has made significant donations to the Liberal Democrat party. In 2008, Lord Clement-Jones was the party treasurer. Lord Clement-Jones nominated Lord Hameed to become a peer.
119. Lord Hannay: Advisor to Frontier Strategy Group, who provide economic consulting based on emerging markets. They list multiple pharmaceutical and healthcare companies as their clients. Has shares in Lionheart Investment Fund who offer individual or group healthcare coverage.
120. Lord Hastings: Global head of Citizenship and Diversity for global tax, Audit, and advisory firm KPMG. The firm is heavily involved in the new NHS structural changes, including GP commissioning groups. KPMG's head of Global Health and advisor to Cameron famously said the NHS would be shown 'no mercy'.

121. Baroness Hayman: Has shares in Standard Chartered plc, which offers healthcare through Aviva for its customers, and general health insurance.

122. Baroness Hogg of Kettlethorpe: Chair of Frontier Economics, a consultancy that advises private sector clients on the impact of healthcare reforms and how "to shape regulatory environments".

123. Lord Jones of Birmingham: Chairman of software solutions company Neutrinos Concepts Ltd, which has run a couple of trials in NHS trust hospitals. He also has shares in the company. Senior advisor for HSBC plc and Chairman on the International Business Advisory board for the same bank. (See Crossbench Lord Elystan for more on HSBC). A senior advisor executive recruitment agency Harvey Nash Group plc. The Harvey NAsh 'Healthcare Practice' part of the site states: We support leading healthcare organisations in securing the right Executive...' Is an unpaid associate of Bupa.

124. Lord Kerr of Kinlochard: Member of the Investment advisory board of investment fund for Edinburgh Partners. A report by the group reveals healthcare as their main sector of interest representing 22.7% of their allocation.

125. Lord Kilclooney: Shares in Vodaphone - Vodaphone produced a report by themselves, which showed how they can help drive efficiency in healthcare costs promoting the use of SMS texts which go via them and other mobile phone companies. South-Central ambulance service NHS trust have appointed Vodaphone UK as its communications partner.

126. Lord Levene: Holds shares in pharmaceutical giant GlaxoSmithKline, Goldman Sachs, which is heavily involved in the healthcare sector.

127. Baroness Manningham-Buller: Has given speaking engagements for KPMG, Artemis, Merck, and Standard Chartered Bank all involved in private healthcare.

128: Lord Marshall of Knightsbridge - Chairman of Nomura International plc. Nomura code, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Nomura Europe Holdings plc, who Lord Marshall is also a chairman is a leading European investment bank specialising in healthcare.

129: Lord Millett - Has shares in Diageo - (See Lord Wasserman). Shares in GlaxoSmithKline.

130. Duke of Norfolk - Shares in Cardionetics who sell ECG monitors. The heart monitor hardware is supplied to the NHS. Shares in Helperby Therapeutics plc, which is developing a new antibiotic processes.

131. Lord Owen - Shares in Abbot Laboratories global healthcare company - supplies NHS with Lab equipment, reagents.

132. Lord Palmer - Shares in pharmaceutical giant GlaxoSmithKline

133. Lord Patten of Barnes: Adviser to private equity firm Bridgepoint.

134. Lord Powell of Bayswater: Chairman of the advisory board of Bowmark Capital who invest in healthcare amongst other sectors. Member of the International Advisory board for health insurance providers ACE insurance.

135. Lord Quirk: Has shares in pharmaceutical giants GlaxoSmithKline and Astrazeneca and Walgreen. For more on Walgreens. Shares in Standard chartered who offer health insurance.

136. Lord Renwick of Clifton: Vice Chairman of global Investment giants JP Morgan. his chairmanships is of both JP Morgan Cazenove and JP Morgan Europe investment banking. JP Morgan are major players in healthcare. According to their website they serve: 1,100 hospitals, 10 of the top 10 health insurers, thousands of physicians groups, top five pharmacy benefit managers, six of the top eight pharmacy retailers. Also has shares in JP Morgan.

137. Lord St John: Non-executive Director of PharmaSys Ltd, a web-based pharmacy management system. Non-Executive Director of Albion Ventures VCT - which has multiple healthcare companies on its portfolio. Consultant for 2e2 Group plc, an IT solution provider, which has multiple contracts across the healthcare spectrum, including the NHS.

138. Lord Skidelsky: Shares in fund managers Janus Capital Group, who invest in the healthcare sector amongst other areas. Wrote in the Spectator in 2000, on an article titled: 'Let's go private.' In there he promotes the idea of encouraging users to get a tax-incentive to go private.

139. Lord Sutherland: Non-executive chairman of Scottish Care - now represents the largest group of Health and Social Care independent providers across Scotland, delivering residential care, day care, care at home, and housing support.
140. Lord Turnball: Non-Executive Director of Prudential plc, who offer private health insurance. Non-executive Director of Frontier Economics, a consultancy that advises private sector clients on the impact of healthcare reforms and how "to shape regulatory environments". Has shares in Prudential plc.

Tory M.P's with Healthcare connections:

David Cameron - Nursing and care home tycoon Dolar Popat has given the Conservatives £209,000. The Ugandan-born dad-of-three has amassed an estimated £42million fortune as founder and chief of TLC Group, which provides services for the elderly. Mr Cameron made the businessman a peer shortly after entering No10 in May 2010, and Lord Popat’s donations include a £25,000 gift registered a week after the Tories’ health reforms were unveiled last July.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2011/01/19/nhs-reform-leaves-tory-backers-with-links-to-private-healthcare-firms-set-for-bonanza-115875-22859373/


Andrew Lansley - Conservative - John Nash, the chairman of Care UK, gave £21,000 to fund Andrew Lansley’s personal office in November 2009. In a recent interview, a senior director of the firm said that 96 per cent of Care UK’s business, which amounted to more than £400 million last year, came from the NHS. - Hedge fund boss John Nash is one of the major Conservative donors with close ties to the healthcare industry.

He and wife Caroline gave £203,500 to the party over the past five years.
The “hedgie” is also a founder of City firm Sovereign Capital, which runs a string of private healthcare firms. Fellow founder Ryan Robson is another major Tory donor who has given the party £252,429.45.
His donations included £50,000 to be a member of the party’s “Leader’s Group”, a secretive cash-for-access club. The would-be MP, who tried but failed to get selected as the election candidate in Bracknell, is managing partner at Sovereign Capital. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2011/01/19/nhs-reform-leaves-tory-backers-with-links-to-private-healthcare-firms-set-for-bonanza-115875-22859373/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/6989408/Andrew-Lansley-bankrolled-by-private-healthcare-provider.html

Andrew Lansley’s wife, Sally Low, is founder and managing director of Low Associates (“We make the link between the public and private sectors”). A Daily Telegraph report in February records that the Low Associates website lists pharmaceuticals companies SmithKline Beecham, Unilever and P&G among its clients. It also records Ms Low’s assertion that the company “does not work with any client who has interests in the health sector”. The website currently contains no reference to the drug firms listed above. http://www.channel4.com/news/andrew-lansleys-nhs-plans-still-in-good-health

Circle the ambitious private healthcare firm run and owned by clinicians, has recruited a former aide to health secretary Andrew Lansley as head of communications. Christina Lineen spent two years working for Lansley, who became health secretary after the general election. The company’s income is derived from private patients, either on insurance schemes or paying for themselves, but it also treats NHS patients. - http://www.publicaffairsnews.com/no_cache/home/uk-news/news-detail/newsarticle/private-healthcare-firm-circle-recruits-ex-lansley-aide-to-head-comms/2/?tx_ttnews


Lansley was a paid director of the marketing agency Profero, who had Diageo Guiness as one of their clients. He gave up the director ship in 2009. In 2008, a senior NHS executive appearing in a commons committee, accused Daigeo of flouting voluntary agreements on responsible drinking labelling. In 2010 Lansley invited fast food companies and Diageo in for discussions on how to tackle obseity, and binge drinking. In 2011 Diageo were given responsibility to pay for training to offer advice on the dangers of alcohol. No, you couldn't make it up.


Harriet Baldwin: Conservative MP for West Worcestershire. Former managing director of JP Morgan Asset Management. JP Morgan are major players in healthcare. According to their website they serve: 1,100 hospitals, 10 of the top 10 health insurers, thousands of physicians groups, top five pharmacy benefit managers, six of the top eight pharmacy retailers.



Simon Burns Conservative - Chelmsford MP - attended an oncology conference paid for by Aventis Pharma - a five-day trip to the US funded by a leading drug firm.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2011/01/28/tory-party-links-to-private-healthcare-companies-115875-22880670/

Nick de Bois, Conservative MP for Enfield North - De Bois is the majority shareholder in Rapier Design Group, an events management company heavily involved with the private medical and pharmaceutical industries, and whose clients include leading names such as AstraZeneca. The company was established by the Tory MP in 1998. Last year it had a turnover of £13m. Last April, Rapier Design purchased Hampton Medical Conferences to “strengthen the company’s position in the medical sector”. It is involved in running conferences and other events for private-sector clients, and for NHS hospitals.

A number of the company’s clients are “partners” of the National Association of Primary Care (NAPC), a lobby group supporting the health secretary’s plans. Rapier Design Group’s biggest clients stand to profit when the NHS is opened up to wider private-sector involvement. The GP commissioning consortium for south-west Kent, covering 49 GP practices and known as Salveo, has already signed a contract with the pharmaceuticals giant AstraZeneca aimed at improving diagnosis of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/29/lansley-ally-shareholding-lobby-firm


Jonathan Djanogly – Conservative MP - His office received payment of £1,900 on 01/11/2001 and declared it on 30/01/2002 from Huntleigh Healthcare Ltd, 310-312 Dallow Road, Luton. The company manufactures medical, orthopaedic equipment and instruments for measuring and is part of Huntleigh International Holdings Limited of the same address. They are a member of the Getinge Group, a Swedish based group of companies who are split between Healthcare and Life sciences. The acquisition of Huntleigh by Getinge took place in 2007.


Michael Fallon – Conservative MP for Sevenoaks – Director of Attendo AB since 2008 – a Swedish private health company offering care and social care. The register of interests show, he receives an annual fee of £13,954.88 net, for approximately 20hrs work. Bridgepoint the private equity firm which acquired Care UK, whose chairman John Nash bankrolled Andrew Lansley’s office just prior to the takeover, has also invested in Attendo AB. Will they get contracts in the UK if the bill? Judging by this list of scandals, lets hope not.


George Freeman - His own business: http://www.4d-biomedical.com/ which is a specialist adviser on Healthcare markets, Technology development, Business strategy & Venture financing, working with NHS trusts. Speaking in Parliament on 11 November 2010 during the Policy For Growth debate he said, "The third is the national health service. I know from my own experience that we are sitting on billions of pounds-worth of patient data. Let us think about how we can unlock the value of those data around the world." See Hansard at http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm101111/debtext/101111-0003.htm



Stephen O’Brien Eddisbury MP - Conservative - Stephen O’Brien’s office received three payments totalling £40,000 from Julian Schild. Mr Schild’s family made £184million in 2006 by selling hospital bed-makers Huntleigh Technology. Mr O’Brien was moved to International Development after the election.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2011/01/19/nhs-reform-leaves-tory-backers-with-links-to-private-healthcare-firms-set-for-bonanza-115875-22859373/

Mark Simmonds, Conservative as a shadow health minister, accepted a trip to the United States to look at hospitals there from Bupa UK. Mr Simmonds missed out on a ministerial job in the government. Mark Simmonds, who was a minister when the controversial reforms were drawn up, is paid £50,000 a year to work just 10 hours a month as “strategic adviser” to Circle Health, the first firm to win control of an NHS hospital: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2011/10/26/tory-mp-cashing-in-on-nhs-break-up-with-second-job-at-health-firm-115875-23515038/#ixzz1dJFD7uKw - Mark Simmonds accepted a US trip to Boston worth £4,982 from private health provider BUPA.

Chris Skidmore, Conservative MP for Kingswood who sits on the Health Select Committee received a payment of £3,500 for 4 hours work - giving speeches to STAC Consultancy http://www.stac-consultancy.com/ which specialises in the launch of pharmaceutical products, strategic branding and medical education.

Chris Skidmore's family also owns a company called Skidmore Medical http://www.skidmoremedical.com/, which appears to be solely selling a physiologic Vascular testing equipment. The company made a donation to him of £7,500 in June 2010 which also appears on register of members interests.

David Willetts - Conservative MP for Havant and the Minister of State for Universities and Science. Has shares in in Sensortec a company that owns Vantix which is working on a contract for a new product that can quickly detect MRSI. The contract is a SBRI contract which provides opportunities for innovative companies to engage witht he public sector for specific problems. in 1993 when Baroness Bottomley as Secretary for Health wanted to privatise wards and hospitals. Willetts supported the move, saying: 'private companies will want to change NHS labour practices, and not want to negotiate with Labour practices.

Rob Wilson - Conservative - MP for Reading East, registered shares in Vital Imaging, a private screening company. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2011/01/19/nhs-reform-leaves-tory-backers-with-links-to-private-healthcare-firms-set-for-bonanza-115875-22859373/

Not a full list, but you get the idea...

Posted by: GMR Apr 2 2012, 04:07 PM

Actually it does.


Manifesto's give you a broad outline but that doesn't mean they can't add additional policies when in Government. All governments do this.

Posted by: GMR Apr 2 2012, 04:10 PM

I wouldn't call them gaffs, more like stupidity. I don't think there is government in history who hasn't had stupid ministers; it goes with the territory.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 2 2012, 04:40 PM

Manifestos are pledges. That is more than a broad outline as you put it.

Stating no top down re-org is more than a last minute minor change. This is a profound change that has nothing to do with PR. He pledged not to do it, I doubt the Lib Dems persuaded him to do it. It is lying by omission. Tory deception.

Few people want this other than his rich friends.

Posted by: Vodabury Apr 2 2012, 04:45 PM

To be fair, he apologised for his choice of words only, perhaps what he was trying to do was to start a mature debate in order to try and address the issues of the very low conviction rate for the offence of rape and costly contested trials, which are so distressing for a victim.

If it is to be insisted that all rape is the same (as opposed to there being gradations such as in assaults) then a low conviction rate will remain.

I am not saying what is right and what is wrong, just that the hysterical reaction was unfair.

Posted by: Squelchy Apr 2 2012, 05:01 PM

What?...or as the young say wtf?

Are you saying that there should be 'serious rapes', 'not-so-serious rapes' and 'hardly worth bothering about rapes'? You are suggesting graduations of rape?

When a woman says 'no' that's it. No means No.

What planet are you on? Rape is rape. To suggest otherwise is bizarre and dangerous.

Posted by: Cognosco Apr 2 2012, 05:09 PM

Lansley has been planning this for the last seven years so it is not a last minute change. The Lib Liars will never be forgiven for not stopping it. Such a major change should never be carried out without it being in a manifesto and have a mandate for it approved. Of course they would not do that as they knew very well the would be unable to get that mandate. So like privatisation of the NHS they brought it in throught the back door.

Posted by: Cognosco Apr 2 2012, 05:18 PM

I think that has been well answered by others so will not add to your misery!

The name of the meeting is irrelevant it is the fact that those with money are able to buy the ear of the Prime Minister that is the problem.
If someone is paying in the region of £250000 as has been reported then it would be beneficial for the Prime Minister to say I don't have to disclose it as it was a private dinner. Sorry GMR it does not work does it? Not only should it be sleaze free it must be seen to be sleaze free!

Posted by: Vodabury Apr 2 2012, 05:30 PM

The planet I am on is one where there could perhaps be a calm and mature debate to try to solve an issue such as a very low conviction rate for a certain type of crime. Please read my last post in full (especially the final line).

Posted by: Jayjay Apr 2 2012, 05:32 PM

But that is what a gaff is. Opening mouth without thinking, putting your foot it, making a silly mistake. It is not liying or misleading. It is not a malicious act. Or, in my case, the gaff was pressing the post button twice.

Posted by: Vodabury Apr 2 2012, 05:40 PM

I think the government has "gaffed" and been made to look silly over recent events. For me, the bigger story was "Gorgeous George".

Posted by: Strafin Apr 2 2012, 05:55 PM

That is quite some list everyone seems to be ignoring! Well done DSB, interesting reading.

Posted by: GMR Apr 2 2012, 06:17 PM

First of all I meant that if PR was put into practice then manifesto's would become increasingly irrelevant (or just a broad outline). As for the rest; I stick by what I said; that governments constantly add or change manifesto's. The problem isn't that they were added but whether what they had added was a good idea or not. And it is; depending on who you ask, that is.

Posted by: GMR Apr 2 2012, 06:18 PM

Whether you believe or not depends on what side of the fence you are on. As for not adding; what about proof?

Posted by: GMR Apr 2 2012, 06:19 PM

Yes I know.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 2 2012, 06:58 PM

No it isn't. It is about a promise of a new politics and no top down re-org of the NHS.

Posted by: GMR Apr 2 2012, 07:23 PM

You are very naive if you believe what politicians say. It is about getting into power; and that means saying what the general public want to hear.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 2 2012, 08:25 PM

In other words, he lied, which is what I said in the first place.

Posted by: GMR Apr 2 2012, 09:23 PM

He would be an unusual politician if he didn't.

Concerning my point; you fingered Cameron as if he was unusual, which he isn't. Politicians have one objective and that is to get into a position of power and they can only do that with the support of the gullible or the adherent.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 2 2012, 10:09 PM

Nope. I made a comment about our current Prime Minister. I never voted for him or his chum, but I was hoping he and his party might learn some lessons. They haven't.


or the apathetic.

Posted by: blackdog Apr 3 2012, 01:06 PM

Of course there are gradations of rape. Statutory rape, for instance, can happen with the woman saying yes. And there are gradations there too - stautory rape by a 14 year old boyfried is surely less criminal than by a 30 year old uncle.

Clarke was merely suggesting that a single mandatory sentence for rape would not make sense. The circumstances of the rape must be taken into consideration. For instance someone breaking into a woman's bedroom in the small hours, threatening her with a knife and raping her is not the same as a drunken lout forcing himself on a drunken female at a party. Both are heinous crimes deserving of custodial sentences, but the same sentence?

Posted by: x2lls Apr 3 2012, 01:15 PM

Absolutely yes, you need to ask?

Posted by: jaycakes Apr 3 2012, 02:28 PM

I think the same sentence would not make sense.
Because let's face it, a 14 or 15 year old these days is more than aware enough to decide if she wants a little something-something so to penalise for that with the same punishment of a "wait behind a bush and then kidnap" type is stupid and wrong.

Likewise the drunken party scenario, how often does "oh yessssfshhhh *dribble*" one night turn into "I SAID NO" the next morning?
The circumstances are everything and it's not like a beanie hat from Wyvdale, one size doesn't fit all..

Although I never manage to get comfortable in those one size fit all hats...they may fit everyone else but they don't fit me.

Posted by: Squelchy Apr 3 2012, 03:58 PM

Yes. If a woman says, and means, 'No', then it doesn't matter what age the person who rapes her is. Neither do the surroundings.

No means No and rape is rape.

Unless you're saying that "I was a bit drunk" is some kind of mitigation.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/19/kenneth-clarke-rape-sentencing-law

Posted by: GMR Apr 3 2012, 04:38 PM

Did you really believe that politicians would learn from past mistakes? Politicians are not perfect and thus will make mistakes and will continue making mistakes or saying things that will get them into power.

It was PT Barnum who said that "there was a sucker born every minute".

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 3 2012, 05:02 PM

No. And I didn't say, nor imply that either.


I know, hence my point of view all those posts ago. David Cameron is a slippery untrustworthy Prime Minister.

Posted by: Cognosco Apr 3 2012, 05:57 PM

Then you have manged to persuaded me that we need a complete rethink regarding our politicians!
We have laws to protect the public from unscruplous salesmen etc. We have laws regarding unfair contracts.
Yet a politician can appear and say and promise whatever they like and is not held to account if they do not even attempt to carry out their promises made before the election. Like Dave "We have no plans to organise the NHS from the top down" yet the plans had been on the drawing board for at least the last seven years.

The only thing that needs "Organising from the top down is our poitical system" but of course we will not hold our breaths!

Posted by: GMR Apr 3 2012, 06:00 PM

You gave the impression that the Tories were more so.






David Cameron is just doing what all politicians do. The problem is the system and the gullibility of the voting public. I wouldn't single Cameron out but tar them all with the same brush. Saying that; he is the best out of a bad bunch. Just look at Blair and Brown.

Posted by: GMR Apr 3 2012, 06:02 PM

Yes, we have laws but who makes those laws? Turkey's don't vote for Christmas.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 3 2012, 07:05 PM

They might be, but I have no evidence for that.


Blair and Brown are in the past; Cameron is now and he is demonstrably slippery.

Posted by: GMR Apr 3 2012, 09:06 PM

Prejudices help give some the evidence.




That sounds like bias talking rather than an intelligence assessment. If you think of it what did he do wrong? Some of the criticism levelled at him was beyond his control; i.e. government ministers acting inappropriately. As for the dinner parties; he was entitled to hold them - as all governments have done - and is outside government regulations; i.e. the taxman didn't pay. Of course you could say that you don't believe it, but then again one would only use that view if one was hostile towards the Conservatives. There was no proof that he acted inappropriately and there isn't isn't.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 3 2012, 09:29 PM

No bias; it is a fact. The Tories are in government and David Cameron is the Prime Minister; the issues we are discussing are of Tory origin.


He's the boss, he carries the can. He clearly chose the 'see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil' method. Plausible dependability is another way of putting it. Just because any one politician did not set a precedent, doesn't make that person immune from criticism for their conduct. If that were the case, then we should have let all the politicians off for the expenses scandal.

Posted by: Adrian Hollister Apr 3 2012, 10:00 PM

The political system needs an overhaul, but those that some elected into power don't want it to change as they have the most to loose. Not all politicians are the same though and not all are interested in power for power's sake.

Posted by: Ron Apr 3 2012, 10:06 PM

With my old age it might be synical but I don't belive it!

Posted by: Turin Machine Apr 3 2012, 10:10 PM

'till they get awhiff of power and get their snouts buried in the gold plated trough then it all changes. I must admit to being very dissapointed with Daves crew but honestly, who else is there ? Milliband ? I mean come on, seriously ? Anyway, never change dopes in the middle of a fix, thats my motto.

Posted by: GMR Apr 4 2012, 04:44 PM

That doesn't mean bias isn't there; anti Tory sentiment.




He maybe the boss but no person can 100% vouch for their underlings. It has never happened in history and it won't happen in the future.

Of course he has seen "evil" and has acted on it. But the problem here is not about him acting upon it but how he should act upon it and that will depend on what side of the fence one is on when applying their criteria.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 4 2012, 05:06 PM

Any bias that might exist has developed during his tenure, not before.


Of course not, but there are KPIs that need to be adhered to, and in my view he has failed some of them.


I don't know what you mean.

Posted by: NORTHENDER Apr 4 2012, 05:40 PM

QUOTE (GMR @ Apr 4 2012, 05:44 PM)
Of course he has seen "evil" and has acted on it. But the problem here is not about him acting upon it but how he should act upon it and that will depend on what side of the fence one is on when applying their criteria.

Did Rumsfelt write that?

Posted by: GMR Apr 4 2012, 06:59 PM

Well, I can't argue with that. But bias nevertheless.




In your view!






Convenient.

Posted by: GMR Apr 4 2012, 06:59 PM

Well, I can't argue with that. But bias nevertheless.




In your view!






Convenient.

Posted by: GMR Apr 4 2012, 07:04 PM

He wouldn't have as it was I who taught him how to confuse issues. A good man in a tight situation, but you wouldn't want him as a friend or an ally; he'd confuse the **** out of you. OK when confusing the enemy though.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 4 2012, 07:05 PM

I've notice constant sniping. Is this just point scoring or a debate?

Posted by: GMR Apr 4 2012, 07:58 PM

Stop points scoring then and let us have a debate then. You must also learn to stop this sniping; as I respond likewise, which doesn't help matters on.

Posted by: Vodabury Apr 4 2012, 08:04 PM

I may not agree with everything GMR says, but he is allowed to make his point.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 4 2012, 09:23 PM

Perhaps you would show me where I have, so I may learn something.

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 4 2012, 09:25 PM

I agree, and I haven't suggested otherwise.

It is said: never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. Your comment seems to prove that adage correct.

Posted by: GMR Apr 4 2012, 11:06 PM

Are you then suggesting that I shouldn't argue with you?Wouldn't that be discrimination against fools? Please don't be too hard on yourself Mr Capp. I for one enjoy your company.


Happy Easter to you.

Posted by: GMR Apr 4 2012, 11:10 PM

If you haven't learn by now then I doubt my pointing out to you will do any good. Nevertheless, I am a fair person so will try to make things easier for you in future rounds.

Posted by: Vodabury Apr 5 2012, 07:06 AM

Perhaps this thread has run its course. You are just being abusive now.

Posted by: Cognosco Apr 5 2012, 09:06 AM

Who was it said "when logical arguments fail then resort to abuse"?

Any one who fails to see the logic that Dave, backed up with the insipid Clegg, has deceived the electorate then they obviously need to be abused!

Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 5 2012, 09:13 AM

Quite, but you seem to be more forgiving of your 'boyfriend's' unprovoked abuse.

Posted by: admin Apr 5 2012, 03:16 PM

I'm not sure this thread is going anywhere now. Let's move on to something else.