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> You can't keep a "good"man quiet,......Unfortunately.
SirWilliam
post Jul 15 2017, 08:54 AM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40615119

Like a fox terrier with a much deceased rat, Tony Blair really can't stay out of the media limelight.
So now the re-moaners have some more ammunition to bore us senseless with.

We are leaving the EU period. History will show if this was a good idea, a bad idea or even no idea, but life goes on and the sooner politicians past and present get out of their pulpits the happier we all will be. angry.gif


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Andy Capp
post Jul 15 2017, 11:28 AM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jul 15 2017, 09:54 AM) *
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40615119

Like a fox terrier with a much deceased rat, Tony Blair really can't stay out of the media limelight.
So now the re-moaners have some more ammunition to bore us senseless with.

We are leaving the EU period. History will show if this was a good idea, a bad idea or even no idea, but life goes on and the sooner politicians past and present get out of their pulpits the happier we all will be. angry.gif

I doubt that.

More people voted to leave, but there is no legal basis why we must. I think it is incumbent on politicians to take into account the views and welfare of all, not just the significant minority of eligible voters who voted Brexit.
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On the edge
post Jul 15 2017, 12:21 PM
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I'm certainly no fan of Tony Blair, but in reality, he is only suggesting what Mr Cameron so miserably failed to achieve with Europe immediately before the referendum. Frankly, if it had been him as PM at the time he might just have pulled it off.

Although a leaver (albeit now wavering) I'd strongly suggest it's crucial to know what experienced politicians now think. Indeed, what I've picked up in Germany, the wider EU leadership is beginning to see that a more in concilliatory / humbled approach might pay dividends.

Be careful what you wish for!


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blackdog
post Jul 15 2017, 01:34 PM
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I voted remain and nothing that has happened since has been a surprise - leaving seems as crazy now as it did a year ago. But, as I see it, the situation is a binary one - in or totally out. The fudge that seems to be gaining ground - remaining in the single market and customs union as a non-member of the EU is utterly crazy. Why leave if you want to stay in? We would end up leaving the decision making body and little else - gaining nothing, losing massive influence and several vetoes.

If Blair is right and the EU is prepared to move their stance on free movement in a way that could satisfy Brexiteers then they should offer it as a change to our membership terms so that we can stay in (plenty of other member states would be happy with a similar adjustment).


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SirWilliam
post Jul 15 2017, 02:17 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Jul 15 2017, 02:34 PM) *
I voted remain and nothing that has happened since has been a surprise - leaving seems as crazy now as it did a year ago. But, as I see it, the situation is a binary one - in or totally out. The fudge that seems to be gaining ground - remaining in the single market and customs union as a non-member of the EU is utterly crazy. Why leave if you want to stay in? We would end up leaving the decision making body and little else - gaining nothing, losing massive influence and several vetoes.

If Blair is right and the EU is prepared to move their stance on free movement in a way that could satisfy Brexiteers then they should offer it as a change to our membership terms so that we can stay in (plenty of other member states would be happy with a similar adjustment).


Exactly ! Cameron showed what sort of buffoon he was to call for it in the first place, as Winston Churchill astutely commented: " The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter", and once he had f****d it up he packed his bag and retreated to the relative safety of Henley on Thames.
I still can't follow the argument regarding the free movement of labour. The " over 'ere takin' our jobs" appraisal doesn't hold water any more than stopping it will appease the very people who shout about it. Even before our membership, ( yes children there was such a time), seasonal workers would venture over here, do their bit, and go home. If you pulled the finger nails out of "yer average" dissenter, they would agree that it was a red herring and the real reason to vote NO was to kick the established bureaucrats of both sides of the channel in the bits that hurt the most.
Now we are between a rock ( read Trump) and a hard place ( a pissed off Europe) and running around like headless poultry in the forlorn hope that someone will wave a magic wand and everything in the garden will return to normality.

Leaders!!!! Couldn't lead a rat up a drainpipe. angry.gif


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On the edge
post Jul 15 2017, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jul 15 2017, 03:17 PM) *
Exactly ! Cameron showed what sort of buffoon he was to call for it in the first place, as Winston Churchill astutely commented: " The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter", and once he had f****d it up he packed his bag and retreated to the relative safety of Henley on Thames.
I still can't follow the argument regarding the free movement of labour. The " over 'ere takin' our jobs" appraisal doesn't hold water any more than stopping it will appease the very people who shout about it. Even before our membership, ( yes children there was such a time), seasonal workers would venture over here, do their bit, and go home. If you pulled the finger nails out of "yer average" dissenter, they would agree that it was a red herring and the real reason to vote NO was to kick the established bureaucrats of both sides of the channel in the bits that hurt the most.
Now we are between a rock ( read Trump) and a hard place ( a pissed off Europe) and running around like headless poultry in the forlorn hope that someone will wave a magic wand and everything in the garden will return to normality.

Leaders!!!! Couldn't lead a rat up a drainpipe. angry.gif


It's rather simplistic to say 'the common man' used immigration simply as a smokescreen. Actually, from what I've seen and heard at grass roots level across the Country is that they do care, quite passionately. Jobs are the least concern. What they are more concerned about is the disappearance and desecration of what they see as our 'way of life'. That is pandering to alien religions, official acceptance of foreign business ethics, the industrialisation of the equality business, as well as the demonstrable overload on our badly funded health, education and housing services. Outside London in particular, we are a conservative population, many not even welcoming an influx of people from the next tiwn, let alone another Country. Our claimed multicultural society was actually created by stealth, not common consent. It's this politicians are failing to deal with.


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