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> Next election, Just lie
je suis Charlie
post Jun 11 2017, 02:27 PM
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What's different here, today, is the growth of the oil economy. This has funded the rise of Daesh through weapons sales, transport, training and the inward infrastructure needed to become a global threat. As oil starts to run short more and more 'action' groups will scrabble over the wealth of the west. Global terrorism will proliferate and no one, anywhere will be safe. Its like Japanese knotweed, root it out at the source or it will bring the house down.


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newres
post Jun 11 2017, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 11 2017, 03:27 PM) *
What's different here, today, is the growth of the oil economy. This has funded the rise of Daesh through weapons sales, transport, training and the inward infrastructure needed to become a global threat. As oil starts to run short more and more 'action' groups will scrabble over the wealth of the west. Global terrorism will proliferate and no one, anywhere will be safe. Its like Japanese knotweed, root it out at the source or it will bring the house down.

Which didn't exist until Gulf War 2. The west is responsible for the chaos there.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 11 2017, 03:34 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 11 2017, 03:15 PM) *
So, the IRA terror attacks didn't happen, Baader Minehoff just an illusion, Communist Anarchists, Suffregettes etc.etc,etc. simply didn't occur?

Where have you been TDH?


Not starring in La La land. Like you. As I have said I want Corbyn to win the next GE. I will vote for him. Be fooking great being overseas watching. 😂
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 11 2017, 03:36 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 11 2017, 04:15 PM) *
Which didn't exist until Gulf War 2. The west is responsible for the chaos there.


You are quite right. The west is evil. Best off it ended and was replaced by something better or more "fundamental".
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Andy Capp
post Jun 11 2017, 04:21 PM
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What would have become of the UK in WW2 had it been full of people like TDH?
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 11 2017, 04:24 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 11 2017, 05:21 PM) *
What would have become of the UK in WW2 had it been full of people like TDH?



Fortunately we have lots of pacifists now.
The Corbynator will take you back to the 1970s.
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On the edge
post Jun 11 2017, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 11 2017, 04:34 PM) *
Not starring in La La land. Like you. As I have said I want Corbyn to win the next GE. I will vote for him. Be fooking great being overseas watching. 😂


Clearly not! Us townies don't get scared so easily that's why you see us as a bit blasé. Might be worth selling up right now; there's likely to be a migration whoever takes power, May with NI's finest means the several population segments will be thinking the same way.

For your own sake TDH, go, and go now. Don't look back, not that you'll have much time to do that what with searching for your Marmite! Canada seems best, but avoid the French bits, they get a bit restive at times and dare I say, violent and tend to speak their silly lingo.

Oh dear, ain't life hard when you are rich!


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 11 2017, 05:39 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 11 2017, 06:30 PM) *
Clearly not! Us townies don't get scared so easily that's why you see us as a bit blasé. Might be worth selling up right now; there's likely to be a migration whoever takes power, May with NI's finest means the several population segments will be thinking the same way.

For your own sake TDH, go, and go now. Don't look back, not that you'll have much time to do that what with searching for your Marmite! Canada seems best, but avoid the French bits, they get a bit restive at times and dare I say, violent and tend to speak their silly lingo.

Oh dear, ain't life hard when you are rich!


Even better. I can vote for the Corbynator from overseas. Canadas a bit cold. My mates in the Bahamas will show me the way. Enjoy your marxist paradise.😂 Already made a few quid by shorting the pound. Lifes great!!!
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On the edge
post Jun 11 2017, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 11 2017, 03:27 PM) *
What's different here, today, is the growth of the oil economy. This has funded the rise of Daesh through weapons sales, transport, training and the inward infrastructure needed to become a global threat. As oil starts to run short more and more 'action' groups will scrabble over the wealth of the west. Global terrorism will proliferate and no one, anywhere will be safe. Its like Japanese knotweed, root it out at the source or it will bring the house down.


Quite, so

Coal was never just for burning and we are surrounded by windy seas. Although we could quite quickly massively substantially reduce our reliance on oil. We've sold our infrastructures to French nationalised and German protected monopolies who aren't going to put in any fresh investment. Even new sustainable capacities are rejected by NIMBY protesters; as so well demonstrated in educated West Berkshire.

Energy and chemical feed stock independence is possible and is rather more than just climate change.



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Biker1
post Jun 11 2017, 06:31 PM
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An interesting editorial on the renationalisation of the railways as proposed by Corbyn........

"Under privatisation there have been many success stories with record investment levels that have grown passenger numbers to new highs, so what has actually been achieved is a very long way from failure.

Contrary to what some would have you believe, trains today are not unreliable and dirty, and the level of service is far in excess of what BR offered. Yes, with the benefit of hindsight, Privatisation could have been done better and with greater levels of competition and there are still further steps to take, certainly to reduce overcrowding, for example.

It’s no secret that Labour has said if the party wins the election, then renationalisation will be on the cards. However, it’s easy to state intent, but the execution of such a plan could be as complex as ongoing Brexit negotiations!

All of the current franchises are due to come to a natural end between October this year and March 2030, and could revert to state control as they expire.

Playing devil’s advocate for a moment and assuming renationalisation did take place, what happens if, at the next election, (which will be no later than 2022), the pendulum swings back to the Conservatives who inherit a part private/part nationalised railway system? It could result in a right mess.

The prospect of renationalising raises many unanswered questions, such as whether the rolling stock, (which is owned by a number of leasing companies and finance houses and costed over a 30-year asset life) will be bought outright by a Labour government, or would it be a merely selective or partial nationalisation with stock still leased?

With Network Rail already under Government control and the Department for Transport having a major say in how each franchise is run, it is virtually nationalised anyway, so it is questionable where any benefits will come from a fully nationalised railway.

If, for example, rail fares are frozen – or even cut as has been hinted at – will staff salaries be frozen too?

What is not being said is how much a full renationalisation of the railway would cost. There won’t be many who would accurately know the cost, but the value of the 5,500 vehicles on order published in the May issue is around £12bn, so extrapolate that and rail renationalisation could easily cost upwards of £40bn to £50bn, maybe more. And to achieve what? (see Lord Berkeley page 12).

Surely that kind of money would be more wisely invested in our NHS, schools and social care systems, all of which are desperately underfunded and in crisis.

What we don’t want is a halfway house that could create even bigger problems years down the line, but should renationalisation take place, at least when things go wrong we’ll know who to blame. The politicians!"


Perhaps be careful what you wish for!! huh.gif
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 11 2017, 06:51 PM
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You have it all wrong biker. Trains will be clean punctual and free. Its all wonderful. And all the Unions will be against striking and everyone gets to travel 1st class. Its all gravy under the messiah. Vote JC!!!!
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On the edge
post Jun 11 2017, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 11 2017, 07:51 PM) *
You have it all wrong biker. Trains will be clean punctual and free. Its all wonderful. And all the Unions will be against striking and everyone gets to travel 1st class. Its all gravy under the messiah. Vote JC!!!!


Glad you like it TDH, but then as even the Daily Mail support this one, I'm not surprised.

Biker is right, but he's got Nu Labour jitters - the same that scared Byers and Prescott from nationalising the track when they had the opportunity. Could have done it for nix as the firm then responsible were essentially bankrupt.

Yes, under the present legislation it would be difficult. However, it's worth remembering that the railways were in private hands before nationalisation the first time and there wasn't a sizmic breakdown when that happened. Similarly when the grouping happened in 1923. That involved many many companies, each with its several separate Acts of Parliament.

Where there's a will, there's away!


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 11 2017, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 11 2017, 09:13 PM) *
Glad you like it TDH, but then as even the Daily Mail support this one, I'm not surprised.

Biker is right, but he's got Nu Labour jitters - the same that scared Byers and Prescott from nationalising the track when they had the opportunity. Could have done it for nix as the firm then responsible were essentially bankrupt.

Yes, under the present legislation it would be difficult. However, it's worth remembering that the railways were in private hands before nationalisation the first time and there wasn't a sizmic breakdown when that happened. Similarly when the grouping happened in 1923. That involved many many companies, each with its several separate Acts of Parliament.

Where there's a will, there's away!


Yes. I've seen the light. All hail JC. Jeremy has the answers. He is a god amongst men.
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On the edge
post Jun 11 2017, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 11 2017, 09:29 PM) *
Yes. I've seen the light. All hail JC. Jeremy has the answers. He is a god amongst men.


Just to be awkward, no he isn't, he wouldn't claim to be either. He's simply the leader of the party and Labour's democratic approach means he doesn't need to wholeheartedly agree with everything the party says. It's a hard concept, but it means actually listening to its members. We used to have a democracy once in the UK but we let it get away.


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 11 2017, 08:50 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 11 2017, 09:43 PM) *
Just to be awkward, no he isn't, he wouldn't claim to be either. He's simply the leader of the party and Labour's democratic approach means he doesn't need to wholeheartedly agree with everything the party says. It's a hard concept, but it means actually listening to its members. We used to have a democracy once in the UK but we let it get away.


Democracy? Like Brexit? Democracy only works if you like the outcome.... Why not just get everyone on line. We could have a Democratic vote everyday. And as a bonus the old wouldn't vote. Not many silver surfers. Yay the young rule!!!
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Biker1
post Jun 12 2017, 05:16 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 11 2017, 09:13 PM) *
Glad you like it TDH, but then as even the Daily Mail support this one, I'm not surprised.

Biker is right, but he's got Nu Labour jitters - the same that scared Byers and Prescott from nationalising the track when they had the opportunity. Could have done it for nix as the firm then responsible were essentially bankrupt.

Yes, under the present legislation it would be difficult. However, it's worth remembering that the railways were in private hands before nationalisation the first time and there wasn't a sizmic breakdown when that happened. Similarly when the grouping happened in 1923. That involved many many companies, each with its several separate Acts of Parliament.

Where there's a will, there's away!

The 1923 grouping was done to alleviate the mishmash of over 100 separate companies running similar services in the same place. It was a follow on from the government control of the railways during WW1.
It was done under 1 act of 6 parts.
The 1948 nationalisation was done by taking the "Big Four" into government control (BR). the Big Four owned the lot, track, infrastructure, stations, and rolling stock.
The current system is entirely different and, because of this, entails the major issues of further nationalisation as described above.
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On the edge
post Jun 12 2017, 06:07 AM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jun 12 2017, 06:16 AM) *
The 1923 grouping was done to alleviate the mishmash of over 100 separate companies running similar services in the same place. It was a follow on from the government control of the railways during WW1.
It was done under 1 act of 6 parts.
The 1948 nationalisation was done by taking the "Big Four" into government control (BR). the Big Four owned the lot, track, infrastructure, stations, and rolling stock.
The current system is entirely different and, because of this, entails the major issues of further nationalisation as described above.


I wholly agree with you that the present arrangements mean that nationalising the railways, by restoring the old model would be hideously difficult and practically unaffordable. In fact, that was the key argument put forward by the Policy Studies Institute for the seemingly inane way privatisation was delivered - to prevent a reversal back to public ownership.

Nevertheless, there are many other ways to skin a cat so to speak, and nationalisation does not necessarily mean re-creating British Rail. In reality, what is needed is public control and accountability. As Ken Livingstone once alluded, to control something, you don't necessarily need to own it. So whilst legislation may need to be complex, bringing the railways back into public control is feasible. For instance, appointing real Regulators with real powers would be a start.

A good example is the original London Transport privatisation. Lord Ashfield an ardent capitalist eventually wanted the government to take over the Underground as it was the only way he could see it could continue. One of our first wave of nationalisations, ironically under a Tory government.

You are spot on, it will be complex and we won't see BR again. However, as those first wave 'nationalisations' demonstrated (BBC, London Transport, Cable and Wireless etc) public ownership / control can give operations we can be proud of again. The only people with anything to fear about public ownership are those presently on the take.


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