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> Anti Voter Identity Fraud Trials., Why would anyone oppose it?
x2lls
post Apr 23 2018, 09:38 PM
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Headline from the Mirror

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tori...checks-12406659

Tories blasted for election identity checks which could prevent black and ethnic minority people voting

The move, which forces people to prove their identity, is being trialled in several ares for the local elections on 3 May in a bid to combat voter fraud.
The Tories have been blasted for voter identity checks which the equality watchdog has warned risks stopping black and ethnic minority people from being able to vote.


Why? Don't black and ethnic people have ID? Or is Labour just worried about losing it's 'extra' votes?


Government Press release:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/voter-id...local-elections

Voter ID pilot to launch in local elections

First British voters required to show ID before casting their ballots in crackdown on fraud.

And then the BBC view.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43865371

Local elections voter ID trial 'like picking up parcel'

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would object, I think it is a very good idea. If you have to provide ID for anything to do with money, purchases, employment, working with the vulnerable, then surely, a vote should also be subject to such rules.



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TallDarkAndHands...
post Apr 23 2018, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE (x2lls @ Apr 23 2018, 10:38 PM) *
Headline from the Mirror

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tori...checks-12406659

Tories blasted for election identity checks which could prevent black and ethnic minority people voting

The move, which forces people to prove their identity, is being trialled in several ares for the local elections on 3 May in a bid to combat voter fraud.
The Tories have been blasted for voter identity checks which the equality watchdog has warned risks stopping black and ethnic minority people from being able to vote.


Why? Don't black and ethnic people have ID? Or is Labour just worried about losing it's 'extra' votes?


Government Press release:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/voter-id...local-elections

Voter ID pilot to launch in local elections

First British voters required to show ID before casting their ballots in crackdown on fraud.

And then the BBC view.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43865371

Local elections voter ID trial 'like picking up parcel'

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would object, I think it is a very good idea. If you have to provide ID for anything to do with money, purchases, employment, working with the vulnerable, then surely, a vote should also be subject to such rules.


Its racist. Innit. How else can you vote multiple times?
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newres
post Apr 24 2018, 05:20 AM
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QUOTE (x2lls @ Apr 23 2018, 10:38 PM) *
Headline from the Mirror

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tori...checks-12406659

Tories blasted for election identity checks which could prevent black and ethnic minority people voting

The move, which forces people to prove their identity, is being trialled in several ares for the local elections on 3 May in a bid to combat voter fraud.
The Tories have been blasted for voter identity checks which the equality watchdog has warned risks stopping black and ethnic minority people from being able to vote.


Why? Don't black and ethnic people have ID? Or is Labour just worried about losing it's 'extra' votes?


Government Press release:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/voter-id...local-elections

Voter ID pilot to launch in local elections

First British voters required to show ID before casting their ballots in crackdown on fraud.

And then the BBC view.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43865371

Local elections voter ID trial 'like picking up parcel'

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would object, I think it is a very good idea. If you have to provide ID for anything to do with money, purchases, employment, working with the vulnerable, then surely, a vote should also be subject to such rules.

It seems to put a barrier in front of voting. If we carried ID cards well fair enough, but I canít see the need for it. It interferes with the democratic process. What next, youíre not allowed to give people a lift?

Not everyone has a passport or a driving licence.
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On the edge
post Apr 24 2018, 06:45 AM
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Frankly, in West Berkshire, I don't know why anyone is concerned. There was no public upset when our local authority seriously damaged the count at the last big election. For anyone with a serious concern for democracy, the conclusions of the Electoral Commission investigation were quite damming. Of course, this being West Berkshire, nothing has been published since.

So, let's not worry ourselves about changing what the voters do until we've sorted the basic administration. If you can't count the vote, very little point in doing much else!


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Strafin
post Apr 24 2018, 10:09 AM
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I, like X2, don't understand the objections. It seems like a sensible and logical move, I have always wondered why it wasn't a bit more secure anyway. So long as they follow the Post Office model and allow simple non photo ID, and ask people to confirm, rather than prove their identity.
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On the edge
post Apr 25 2018, 01:20 PM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Apr 24 2018, 11:09 AM) *
I, like X2, don't understand the objections. It seems like a sensible and logical move, I have always wondered why it wasn't a bit more secure anyway. So long as they follow the Post Office model and allow simple non photo ID, and ask people to confirm, rather than prove their identity.


Let's face it, no reason why we all couldn't be issued with a photo NI card. Produce that for voting.


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newres
post Apr 25 2018, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Apr 25 2018, 02:20 PM) *
Let's face it, no reason why we all couldn't be issued with a photo NI card. Produce that for voting.

Because it smacks of Nazism and being required to have papers. I donít see why we canít be required to take our polling cards and for them to be retained after voting. Surely thatís all thatís needed? I can see nothing wrong with that.
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On the edge
post Apr 25 2018, 08:42 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Apr 25 2018, 09:01 PM) *
Because it smacks of Nazism and being required to have papers. I donít see why we canít be required to take our polling cards and for them to be retained after voting. Surely thatís all thatís needed? I can see nothing wrong with that.


True and using polling cards would cost nothing. Trouble is, you can't be sure that the person named on the card is the person presenting it. I suppose that it's no worse a problem than postal votes, which are arguably even less secure.


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je suis Charlie
post Apr 25 2018, 10:04 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Apr 25 2018, 09:01 PM) *
Because it smacks of Nazism and being required to have papers. I donít see why we canít be required to take our polling cards and for them to be retained after voting. Surely thatís all thatís needed? I can see nothing wrong with that.

If that was the case, what about when your abroad? For instance;

"Even if you don't need a passport for border checks within the Schengen area , it is still always highly recommended to take a passport or ID card with you, so you can prove your identity if needed (if stopped by police, boarding a plane, etc.). Schengen EU countries have the possibility of adopting national rules obliging you to hold or carry papers and documents when you are present on their territory."

And what about our much vaunted ID cards? And how about when you want to hire something here? Say, a carpet cleaner? When asked for two forms of identification do you storm out muttering 'Nazi' under your breath? Nothing wrong AT ALL with people being required to prove who they are.


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Apr 25 2018, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Apr 25 2018, 11:04 PM) *
If that was the case, what about when your abroad? For instance;

"Even if you don't need a passport for border checks within the Schengen area , it is still always highly recommended to take a passport or ID card with you, so you can prove your identity if needed (if stopped by police, boarding a plane, etc.). Schengen EU countries have the possibility of adopting national rules obliging you to hold or carry papers and documents when you are present on their territory."

And what about our much vaunted ID cards? And how about when you want to hire something here? Say, a carpet cleaner? When asked for two forms of identification do you storm out muttering 'Nazi' under your breath? Nothing wrong AT ALL with people being required to prove who they are.


Yes there is. How else can vote rigging take place? Its basically an attack on Labour.
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newres
post Apr 26 2018, 04:40 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 25 2018, 11:09 PM) *
Yes there is. How else can vote rigging take place? Its basically an attack on Labour.

You could spend more than allowed and spread targeted disinformation and lies on Facebook. Oh wait, thatís been done.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Apr 26 2018, 06:19 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Apr 26 2018, 05:40 AM) *
You could spend more than allowed and spread targeted disinformation and lies on Facebook. Oh wait, thatís been done.


Like this you mean?

https://www.ft.com/content/2f91721d-9512-3c...0f-4453897183c8

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On the edge
post Apr 26 2018, 08:47 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 26 2018, 07:19 AM) *


Gosh, and there was me thinking the FT was defunct. So, Brendan Bracken's Financial 'Telegraph' has moved to the digital age.


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je suis Charlie
post Apr 26 2018, 08:55 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 26 2018, 07:19 AM) *

Well, there's this,

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/labou...wn-voter-fraud/

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/je...d-a3684296.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/o...ng-for-ed-stone

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/822...-vote-electoral

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/a...localgovernment


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On the edge
post Apr 26 2018, 11:55 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Apr 26 2018, 09:55 AM) *


Quite so, it my view it simply confirms what Tony Benn used to say 'if voting changed anything they'd abolish it'. We still live in an aristocracy and we've been World class in managing to keep this form of government for centuries.

So long as there is a safety valve where a few run down districts can return their Socialist brothers and a few remote sleepy areas their deep thinking Libbies all is well. Us in West Berks have no worries at all. Up the ruling classes!


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