Shirking from home, Where is everyone? Options

[Exhausted]

I do think you are being a little harsh. I only have anecdotal evidence from the media, but the teaching profession must be under a lot of stress between unruly pupils, human rights issues and the ever changing syllabus. It is easy to say get out and a great many teachers have done just that, but to others it is a vocation. I also have sympathy with the public facing employees at Council offices as I have often witnessed them being verbally abused. When you take that on a daily basis for say 15 years, I think I would feel a certain amount of stress. one of the highest public sector jobs suffering from stress is hospital surgeons; on a daily basis you have the responsibility for hundreds of lives and also have to contend with budgets and deadlines.

Maybe but you get the gain so be prepared to take the pain.

Don't start me on teachers, full Christmas holiday then first day back, no kids, inset day.

[Berkshirelad]

Health and Safety at Work Act 1986 to cooperate with the employer and the employer has a duty to assess the risks to the employee..

Two points.

1) it is the Health & Safety at Work Etc. Act 1974

2) Where do you draw the line between employer and employee in this debate - after all, a professional, trained and competent H&S Officer is still an employee. The line is not as black & white as youi all seem to think.

[Exhausted]

You are quite right in that you are more likely to have an accident at home. But, if you were expected to work from home on a computer for long/longish hours then a company could be held liable if they had not given you the information/training in how to work at your workstation 'healthily'. If you were provided with this information/training at work you would be expected to apply the same principles at home. If your job was home-based or required working from home it should show in your contract of employment and your contract of employment/terms and conditions of employment should state that you also have a duty of care to yourself and those around you.

Your employer should provide you with the tools (information) in order for you to work safely.

If you haven't got the brain power to organise yourself and your home environment what are you doing working at home without the constant supervision of the office. We spend all our time worrying about H&S, safe working environment etc that we lose site of the fact that we are grown ups and should be able to think for ourselves without our nanny to help us along. I am so fed up with all the political and work related correctness. Just get on and work and use your God given faculties.

[Exhausted]

Two points.

1) it is the Health & Safety at Work Etc. Act 1974

2) Where do you draw the line between employer and employee in this debate - after all, a professional, trained and competent H&S Officer is still an employee. The line is not as black & white as youi all seem to think.

That is because specialists, consultants and other people in the business of scaring us in the workplace have blurred the line by their incessant carping on about taking responsibility for stupid employees to make sure the tea is at the right temperature and the chair has a soft cushion.

Get rid of H&S officers and use common sense.

[Iommi]

Get rid of H&S officers and use common sense.

I'd rather we didn't; people can be quite stupid sometimes. In the vast majority of cases, health and safety directives are the application of common sense.

[Dodgys smarter b...]

people can be quite stupid sometimes.

Good. Darwinism writ large. The schoolkid who swallows all the marbles doesn't grow up to have kids of his own....what's wrong with that?

In order to protect one or two stupid people, H and S muck up the childhoods of millions.

Children have a right to fall over and graze their knees, they should have the right to climb trees (if they succeed they learn about themselves, and trees, if they fall they learn about gravity and pain) That's how it should be. We should all have the chance to learn and do daft things, sometimes you get a result, sometimes it's for others to learn from your mistakes. That's how we learn. That's the way it is. Anyone who has a career in H and S should hang their head in shame.

H and S hide behind the adage "if it saves just one life ....it's worth it." NO. IT. AINT. The buggering up of millions of normal childhoods (and learning curves) just to protect a few morons from themselves is never worth it.

[Iommi]

That is all very well, but these stupid people do stupid things that hurt the not so stupid as well! Like I said, H&S in the vast majority of cases is the application of common sense. Only an idiot wouldn't understand that! Besides, we were talking about H&S at work.

Not bad getting here from talking about people getting paid to look after their sick kid cause the missus doesn't get paid if she doesn't turn up, or if you have to be at home to receive the new freezer cause you've used all your holiday up!

[Dodgys smarter b...]

Besides, we were talking about H&S at work.

Think Brunel would have built the GWR if H and S had been involved?

People start working from home, and H and S will want to start carrying out risk assesments on their houses.

[Bloggo]

Think Brunel would have built the GWR if H and S had been involved?

People start working from home, and H and S will want to start carrying out risk assesments on their houses.

Yes, I agree with you in that it has all got out of hand but I think it is an employer's duty of care in law to risk assess an employees home work station in order to keep them safe from injury and illness.

[Chesapeake]

I'd rather we didn't; people can be quite stupid sometimes. In the vast majority of cases, health and safety directives are the application of common sense.

Quite agree Iommi. Sometimes people can be stupid. I would hope that the vast majority of people are capable of using their common sense but there is a minority who are not capable and therefore NEED extra guidance.

For example think about the food warnings on packaging... one bizarre example is a packet of fish fingers. If you look on the warning section on the box it says "contains fish"!!I cannot quite comprehend why this warning is needed but someone at some point obviously didn't understand that fish fingers contain fish!

As has been said H&S is needed in order to protect those who do not have common sense and also to protect those around them. I also think though that this country has gone a little H&S mad especially where children having a little innocent fun is concerned. But, this is probably down to the pounds and pence factor relating to how litigious we have become and those wanting to cash in a on a quick buck.

[Iommi]

Equally, sometimes people need to be protected so they are healthy for their job. It is counter productive for the employer to thrash an excellent employee who eventually submits under the work load. There is more to Good H&S practice than those stories the media like to publish to wind people up.

H&S is for everyone's benefit and should be employed where risks need not exists, just for the sake of a little bit of considerate management.

Risk assessment is just that. It is not about finding a reason not to do something, it is about mitigating unnecessary risk and preparing for likely outcomes.

They failed to perform a proper risk assessment for the design of HMS Titanic which lead to tragic results.

[On the edge]

Equally, sometimes people need to be protected so they are healthy for their job. It is counter productive for the employer to thrash an excellent employee who eventually submits under the work load. There is more to Good H&S practice than those stories the media like to publish to wind people up.

H&S is for everyone's benefit and should be employed where risks need not exists, just for the sake of a little bit of considerate management.

Risk assessment is just that. It is not about finding a reason not to do something, it is about mitigating unnecessary risk and preparing for likely outcomes.

They failed to perform a proper risk assessment for the design of HMS Titanic which lead to tragic results.

Great post. Quite agree - after all risk assessment is simply 'think first'; common sense really!

[Iommi]

Great post. Quite agree - after all risk assessment is simply 'think first'; common sense really!

Exactly; if you want kids to explore and make mistakes that hurt, then it would be a part of a risk assessment to decide to have a nurse, or similar, equipped with first aid tools available at short notice. Not to stop kids hurting themselves in the first place.

I think people read the crap in the news and then form opinions from it, without necessarily understand the whole picture.

[Simon Kirby]

I think people read the crap in the news and then form opinions from it, without necessarily understand the whole picture.

Ain't that the truth. Commerce and Industry don't like health and safety because it affects their bottom line and the anti-H&S propoganda spread by the likes of the Daily Mail is not just casual hate-mongering.

Risk Assessment is not onerous and it only turns up stupid mitigation when it's done by stupid managers. Analyse the root cause of industrial injuries and it turns out that mostly the risk was pretty obvious but for a variety of reasons people chose to take the risk, and mostly that's because there's a get-the-job-done macho culture.

[Dodgys smarter b...]

Nelson: "Order the signal, Hardy."

Hardy: "Aye, aye sir."

Nelson: "Hold on, that's not what I dictated to Flags. What's the
meaning of this?"

Hardy: "Sorry sir?"

Nelson (reading aloud): "' England expects every person to do his or
her duty, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religious
persuasion or disability.' - What gobbledegook is this?"

Hardy: "Admiralty policy, I'm afraid, sir. We're an equal
opportunities employer now. We had the devil's own job getting '
England' past the censors, lest it be considered racist."

Nelson: "Gadzooks, Hardy. Hand me my pipe and tobacco."

Hardy: "Sorry sir. All naval vessels have now been designated
smoke-free working environments."

Nelson: "In that case, break open the rum ration. Let us splice the
mainbrace to steel the men before battle."

Hardy: "The rum ration has been abolished, Admiral. It's part of the
Government's policy on binge drinking."

Nelson: "Good heavens, Hardy. I suppose we'd better get on with it
............ full speed ahead."

Hardy: "I think you'll find that there's a 4 knot speed limit in this
stretch of water."

Nelson: "**** it man! We are on the eve of the greatest sea battle in
history. We must advance with all dispatch. Report from the crow's
nest please."

Hardy: "That won't be possible, sir."

Nelson: "What?"

Hardy: "Health and Safety have closed the crow's nest, sir. No
harness; and they said that rope ladders don't meet regulations. They
won't let anyone up there until a proper scaffolding can be erected."

Nelson: "Then get me the ship's carpenter without delay, Hardy."

Hardy: "He's busy knocking up a wheelchair access to the foredeck
Admiral."

Nelson: "Wheelchair access? I've never heard anything so absurd."

Hardy: "Health and safety again, sir. We have to provide a
barrier-free environment for the differently abled."

Nelson: "Differently abled? I've only one arm and one eye and I refuse
even to hear mention of the word. I didn't rise to the rank of admiral
by playing the disability card."

Hardy: "Actually, sir, you did. The Royal Navy is under represented in
the areas of visual impairment and limb deficiency."

Nelson: "Whatever next? Give me full sail. The salt spray beckons."

Hardy: "A couple of problems there too, sir. Health and safety won't
let the crew up the rigging without hard hats. And they don't want
anyone breathing in too much salt - haven't you seen the adverts?"

Nelson: "I've never heard such infamy. Break out the cannon and tell
the men to stand by to engage the enemy."

Hardy: "The men are a bit worried about shooting at anyone, Admiral."

Nelson: "What? This is mutiny!"

Hardy: "It's not that, sir. It's just that they're afraid of being
charged with murder if they actually kill anyone. There's a couple of
legal-aid lawyers on board, watching everyone like hawks."

Nelson: "Then how are we to sink the Frenchies and the Spanish?"

Hardy: "Actually, sir, we're not."

Nelson: "We're not?"

Hardy: "No, sir. The French and the Spanish are our European partners
now. According to the Common Fisheries Policy, we shouldn't even be in
this stretch of water. We could get hit with a claim for
compensation."

Nelson: "But you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil."

Hardy: "I wouldn't let the ship's diversity co-ordinator hear you
saying that sir. You'll be up on disciplinary report."

Nelson: "You must consider every man an enemy, who speaks ill of your
King."

Hardy: "Not any more, sir. We must be inclusive in this multicultural
age. Now put on your Kevlar vest; it's the rules. It could save your
life"

Nelson: "Don't tell me - health and safety. Whatever happened to rum,
sodomy and the lash?"

Hardy: As I explained, sir, rum is off the menu! And there's a ban on
corporal punishment."

Nelson: "What about sodomy?"

Hardy: "I believe that is now legal, sir."

Nelson: "In that case............................... kiss me, Hardy.

[Chesapeake]

Nelson: "Order the signal, Hardy."

Hardy: "Aye, aye sir."

Nelson: "Hold on, that's not what I dictated to Flags. What's the
meaning of this?"

Hardy: "Sorry sir?"

Nelson (reading aloud): "' England expects every person to do his or
her duty, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religious
persuasion or disability.' - What gobbledegook is this?"

Hardy: "Admiralty policy, I'm afraid, sir. We're an equal
opportunities employer now. We had the devil's own job getting '
England' past the censors, lest it be considered racist."

Nelson: "Gadzooks, Hardy. Hand me my pipe and tobacco."

Hardy: "Sorry sir. All naval vessels have now been designated
smoke-free working environments."

Nelson: "In that case, break open the rum ration. Let us splice the
mainbrace to steel the men before battle."

Hardy: "The rum ration has been abolished, Admiral. It's part of the
Government's policy on binge drinking."

Nelson: "Good heavens, Hardy. I suppose we'd better get on with it
............ full speed ahead."

Hardy: "I think you'll find that there's a 4 knot speed limit in this
stretch of water."

Nelson: "**** it man! We are on the eve of the greatest sea battle in
history. We must advance with all dispatch. Report from the crow's
nest please."

Hardy: "That won't be possible, sir."

Nelson: "What?"

Hardy: "Health and Safety have closed the crow's nest, sir. No
harness; and they said that rope ladders don't meet regulations. They
won't let anyone up there until a proper scaffolding can be erected."

Nelson: "Then get me the ship's carpenter without delay, Hardy."

Hardy: "He's busy knocking up a wheelchair access to the foredeck
Admiral."

Nelson: "Wheelchair access? I've never heard anything so absurd."

Hardy: "Health and safety again, sir. We have to provide a
barrier-free environment for the differently abled."

Nelson: "Differently abled? I've only one arm and one eye and I refuse
even to hear mention of the word. I didn't rise to the rank of admiral
by playing the disability card."

Hardy: "Actually, sir, you did. The Royal Navy is under represented in
the areas of visual impairment and limb deficiency."

Nelson: "Whatever next? Give me full sail. The salt spray beckons."

Hardy: "A couple of problems there too, sir. Health and safety won't
let the crew up the rigging without hard hats. And they don't want
anyone breathing in too much salt - haven't you seen the adverts?"

Nelson: "I've never heard such infamy. Break out the cannon and tell
the men to stand by to engage the enemy."

Hardy: "The men are a bit worried about shooting at anyone, Admiral."

Nelson: "What? This is mutiny!"

Hardy: "It's not that, sir. It's just that they're afraid of being
charged with murder if they actually kill anyone. There's a couple of
legal-aid lawyers on board, watching everyone like hawks."

Nelson: "Then how are we to sink the Frenchies and the Spanish?"

Hardy: "Actually, sir, we're not."

Nelson: "We're not?"

Hardy: "No, sir. The French and the Spanish are our European partners
now. According to the Common Fisheries Policy, we shouldn't even be in
this stretch of water. We could get hit with a claim for
compensation."

Nelson: "But you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil."

Hardy: "I wouldn't let the ship's diversity co-ordinator hear you
saying that sir. You'll be up on disciplinary report."

Nelson: "You must consider every man an enemy, who speaks ill of your
King."

Hardy: "Not any more, sir. We must be inclusive in this multicultural
age. Now put on your Kevlar vest; it's the rules. It could save your
life"

Nelson: "Don't tell me - health and safety. Whatever happened to rum,
sodomy and the lash?"

Hardy: As I explained, sir, rum is off the menu! And there's a ban on
corporal punishment."

Nelson: "What about sodomy?"

Hardy: "I believe that is now legal, sir."

Nelson: "In that case............................... kiss me, Hardy.

This is THE funniest thing I have read for ages

Where is it from?

[Chesapeake]

This also made me chuckle Think he should have done a risk assessment first!!

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20101209/tod-bl...wn-870a197.html

[Exhausted]

Yes, I agree with you in that it has all got out of hand but I think it is an employer's duty of care in law to risk assess an employees home work station in order to keep them safe from injury and illness.

You are joking of course. How can a work station in some persons house have a risk attached to it. Nodding off and falling out of the chair perhaps. What about falling downstairs when he gets up to make a cup of tea. Should that also be examined by the employer or their H&S department.
No need for any third party to be involved, no need for these risk assessments that are so time wasting. A short email to the employer from the worker saying "I am working safely at home thank you" is more than enough.

If their are hard and fast rules, then I would bet that they are set by jobsworth's who are making a career from it, are non productive, cost a fortune and set back business by light years. Now's a good time to get rid of them all and the paranoia that goes with them.

[Iommi]

You are joking of course. How can a work station in some persons house have a risk attached to it. Nodding off and falling out of the chair perhaps. What about falling downstairs when he gets up to make a cup of tea. Should that also be examined by the employer or their H&S department.
No need for any third party to be involved, no need for these risk assessments that are so time wasting. A short email to the employer from the worker saying "I am working safely at home thank you" is more than enough.

If their are hard and fast rules, then I would bet that they are set by jobsworth's who are making a career from it, are non productive, cost a fortune and set back business by light years. Now's a good time to get rid of them all and the paranoia that goes with them.

Unlucky...

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg226.pdf

"Under the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999, employers are required to do a risk assessment of the work activities carried out by homeworkers. Completing a risk assessment involves identifying the hazards relating to the homeworkers’ work activities and deciding whether enough steps have been taken to prevent harm to them or to anyone else who may be affected by their work. A risk is the chance, great or small, that someone will be harmed by a hazard. A hazard is anything that may cause harm."

"If homeworkers use electrical equipment provided by the employer as part of their work, the employer is responsible for its maintenance. Employers are only responsible for the equipment they supply. Electrical sockets and other parts of the homeworkers’ domestic electrical system are their own responsibility. Listed below are simple steps that employers can take to prevent harm or injury to homeworkers, or other people, when homeworkers use electrical equipment in the home."

"The use of VDUs is covered by the Health and Safety (Display Screen Equipment) Regulations 1992 as amended by the Health and Safety (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2002. Employers have a duty to make sure that the display screen equipment used by homeworkers is safe and does not affect the user’s health."

"New legislation required to implement the European Directive on Pregnant Workers was introduced in 1994 and is covered by the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999. When assessing risks to the homeworker, the new legislation requires the employer to pay attention to homeworkers who are new and expectant mothers. Risks include those to the unborn child or to the child of a woman who is still breast feeding - not just risks to the mother herself. A new or expectant mother means a worker who is pregnant, who has given birth within the previous six months, or who is breast feeding. ‘Given birth’ is defined in the new Regulations as ‘delivered a living child or, after 24 weeks of pregnancy, a stillborn child’."

"HSE Inspectors enforce the HSWA and the Regulations made under the HSWA, that apply to homeworking. Inspectors visit employers and also have the right to visit homeworkers, to ensure that risks from work and working at home are properly managed. They also investigate and help settle complaints about working conditions that could affect the health, safety or welfare of employees, including homeworkers."

[Darren]

Having done a formal Risk Assessment course, what is taught is mostly common sense.

In the UK there is very little H&S legislation and what does exist is targeted at high risk environments such as mining, railways and the nuclear industry. In 2009 there was 151 fatalities across all industries plus 393 members of the public going about their daily business. In anyone's books, that is an unacceptably high level of deaths, never mind all the serious injuries.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/fatalinjuries.htm

Far too many people hid behind H&S when they want to stop something. The HSE now refute the stories when they come along.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/record.htm

For working at home, the most that is needed is for the employee to do a Display Screen Equipment survey, which is aimed at reducing RSI injuries and ensuring people take proper breaks.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/msd/dse/