Shirking from home, Where is everyone? Options

[Darren]

On the rare occasion I've worked from home, they have been some of my most productive days.

You work in a comfortable environment, a ready supply of food, drink and treats to keep you going. Most importantly, no numpties appearing at your shoulder asking you a question, that if they had actually read the document you sent then, they should already know the answer to!!!

<calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean>

[Bloggo]

Good management isn't about keep one's staff on a leash though, it's about getting the best out of them whilst keeping them accountable. If one has to check up on their staff every five minutes then one is not a very good manager.

Yes, I can't argue with that however one is also not agood manager if one ignores the fact that staff are "swinging the lead".
Aside from this shouldn't all those staff working from home have their working environment audited and approved by a Health and Safety representative to ensure they they work in a proper and safe environment. Isn't this a legal requirement? I wonder how many public sector staff "working from home" have this documented and recorded?

[Berkshirelad]

Yes, I can't argue with that however one is also not agood manager if one ignores the fact that staff are "swinging the lead".

This entirely depends on whether the role is task driven or time driven.

Aside from this shouldn't all those staff working from home have their working environment audited and approved by a Health and Safety representative to ensure they they work in a proper and safe environment. Isn't this a legal requirement? I wonder how many public sector staff "working from home" have this documented and recorded?

Risk assessments only need to be undertaken if working from home is a regular (or normal) situation. Otherwise, any temporary change of venue would require endless risk assessments.

Providing a safe working environment and practices is the legal duty. There is no legal requirement to do inspection; but it might later be hard to prove that provision was safe without some written evidence of risk assessment, etc.

[Bloggo]

This entirely depends on whether the role is task driven or time driven.

One could argue that if it is task driven then the public purse should only pay for that.

Risk assessments only need to be undertaken if working from home is a regular (or normal) situation. Otherwise, any temporary change of venue would require endless risk assessments.

The argument then is what constitutes a "regular" or normal situation. If a staff members working culture is changed by allowing them to work from home then this would be considered "normal" and if it is one day a week, every week then this is regular.

Providing a safe working environment and practices is the legal duty. There is no legal requirement to do inspection; but it might later be hard to prove that provision was safe without some written evidence of risk assessment, etc.

How would say WBC defend a position where they knowingly allowed a staff member to work from home and that staff member electrocuted himself and died because his/her work station was not safe. I would think that unless all staff working from home are properly assessed then WBC are libel for claims for injury and illness resulting in compensation claims and considering that money would come out of the public purse then I believe that WBC and any other public body should not be taking this risk.

[Chesapeake]

One could argue that if it is task driven then the public purse should only pay for that.

The argument then is what constitutes a "regular" or normal situation. If a staff members working culture is changed by allowing them to work from home then this would be considered "normal" and if it is one day a week, every week then this is regular.

How would say WBC defend a position where they knowingly allowed a staff member to work from home and that staff member electrocuted himself and died because his/her work station was not safe. I would think that unless all staff working from home are properly assessed then WBC are libel for claims for injury and illness resulting in compensation claims and considering that money would come out of the public purse then I believe that WBC and any other public body should not be taking this risk.

A simple on-line risk assessment module would cover the company in most cases as the memeber of staff would be required to complete and pass it before being allowed to work from home. This would create a record of the company's effort to take every reasonable, practicable steps to ensure it's duty of care to the employee.

[Bloggo]

A simple on-line risk assessment module would cover the company in most cases as the memeber of staff would be required to complete and pass it before being allowed to work from home. This would create a record of the company's effort to take every reasonable, practicable steps to ensure it's duty of care to the employee.

Yes that could work and such software exists but an employee could tick all the boxes just because he wanted to work from home. Shouldn't there be some independent verification of the work station? After all an employer has a duty of care and it should be demonstrated that this has been adhered to.

[Chesapeake]

Yes that could work and such software exists but an employee could tick all the boxes just because he wanted to work from home. Shouldn't there be some independent verification of the work station? After all an employer has a duty of care and it should be demonstrated that this has been adhered to.

There are loads of computer training programmes out there that take employess and companies through Health & Safety procedures, Manual Handling, Computer Workstations, Fire Safety, First Aid etc. etc.. In these days of difficult financial climates more and more companies are going for on-line training rather that in house trainers or bringing in an external trainer as they are much cheaper and have a much smaller impact on the daily running of a business. Please also remember that not only is it up to a company to have a legal duty of care to it's employees but it is also up to an employee to do everything that is reasonably praciticable to look after their own health and safety and those around them. It's a two way street, a company cannot force an employee to follow it's procedures or it's Health & Safety practices but can only do as much as it can to provide the resources needed to help it's employees to be as informed and safe as possible.

[Bloggo]

There are loads of computer training programmes out there that take employess and companies through Health & Safety procedures, Manual Handling, Computer Workstations, Fire Safety, First Aid etc. etc.. In these days of difficult financial climates more and more companies are going for on-line training rather that in house trainers or bringing in an external trainer as they are much cheaper and have a much smaller impact on the daily running of a business. Please also remember that not only is it up to a company to have a legal duty of care to it's employees but it is also up to an employee to do everything that is reasonably praciticable to look after their own health and safety and those around them. It's a two way street, a company cannot force an employee to follow it's procedures or it's Health & Safety practices but can only do as much as it can to provide the resources needed to help it's employees to be as informed and safe as possible.

Yes, I do see your point but if an employee working from home has not had sufficient training of any kind to create and maintain a safe working environment at home and the employer has made no attempt to monitor and control that situation then I would suspect that the law would come down hard on the employer should an injury or illness come about from that situation.
I also would have thought that if an employee refuses to work in a safe environment then the employer could take proceedings to terminate the employment.
I wonder if there is any case law precedent that could be refered to?

[Chesapeake]

Yes, I do see your point but if an employee working from home has not had sufficient training of any kind to create and maintain a safe working environment at home and the employer has made no attempt to monitor and control that situation then I would suspect that the law would come down hard on the employer should an injury or illness come about from that situation.
I also would have thought that if an employee refuses to work in a safe environment then the employer could take proceedings to terminate the employment.
I wonder if there is any case law precedent that could be refered to?

Case law as to an employee refusing/failing to work in a safe manner for themselves and those around them or termination of employment for not complying with Health & Safety Regulations/employment contract working practices or the employer not taking their responsibility of duty of care to it's employees?

There are huge fines for an employer failing to put in place safe working practices for it's employees/customers every day. One that most in Newbury will be unfailingly aware of and that is the terrible accident that happened when a customer was crushed by a very large piece of machinery at the Newbury rubbish tip a couple of years ago. This sort of thing happens far too often, unfortunately and the worst culprits for employers or employees not taking their responsibilities seriously enough are building sites/sites that involve heavy machinery when people/companies try to cut corners!

How many people actually do a risk assessment every time for a job that they do day in day out?

[Bloggo]

Case law as to an employee refusing/failing to work in a safe manner for themselves and those around them or termination of employment for not complying with Health & Safety Regulations/employment contract working practices or the employer not taking their responsibility of duty of care to it's employees?

There are huge fines for an employer failing to put in place safe working practices for it's employees/customers every day. One that most in Newbury will be unfailingly aware of and that is the terrible accident that happened when a customer was crushed by a very large piece of machinery at the Newbury rubbish tip a couple of years ago. This sort of thing happens far too often, unfortunately and the worst culprits for employers or employees not taking their responsibilities seriously enough are building sites/sites that involve heavy machinery when people/companies try to cut corners!

How many people actually do a risk assessment every time for a job that they do day in day out?

If you have done the risk assessment before introducing a new work process then you don't have to do it again unless you modify or change the process.

[Exhausted]

You are all joking about risk assessment at home and health and safety being involved in home work. It's not exactly an iron foundry in the living room.

Just try and keep it in perspective, more likely to scald themselves when making a cup of tea. That would be laughed out of any compensation against the employer but perhaps the kettle was faulty. As the employer didn't buy it and wasn't involved in its' purchase......and so on...

Our whole world has just dropped down from common sense to looking to blame somebody if we are stupid enough to not take care and be responsible for our own actions. A direct result of the legal system ambulance chasing. It is also a good earner for sections within todays business, usually driven by the fireproof employees in the Human Resources department.

[user23]

How would say WBC defend a position where they knowingly allowed a staff member to work from home and that staff member electrocuted himself and died because his/her work station was not safe. I would think that unless all staff working from home are properly assessed then WBC are libel for claims for injury and illness resulting in compensation claims and considering that money would come out of the public purse then I believe that WBC and any other public body should not be taking this risk.

I suspect as with many private sector organisations, all employees working from home are required to complete a self-assessment of their working conditions and certify they are safe.

[Simon Kirby]

Yes, I do see your point but if an employee working from home has not had sufficient training of any kind to create and maintain a safe working environment at home and the employer has made no attempt to monitor and control that situation then I would suspect that the law would come down hard on the employer should an injury or illness come about from that situation.
I also would have thought that if an employee refuses to work in a safe environment then the employer could take proceedings to terminate the employment.
I wonder if there is any case law precedent that could be refered to?

Yes on both points. The employee has a duty under the Health and Safety at Work Act 1986 to cooperate with the employer and the employer has a duty to assess the risks to the employee.

One risk from working from home is that the employee actually doesn't take sufficient breaks, or doesn't adequately seperate work from home. It's not too difficult to end up working all the hours in the day and burning out. Stress is as much an industrial injury as falling from a scaffold and it is rarely adequately managed.

Employers can also be pretty rubbish at assessing the long term risks for people working at computers, especially if they're at home slouched in an easy chair - it's how I used to work. Back and neck problems creep up on you very slowly, but they're serious industrial injuries just the same.

[Simon Kirby]

I suspect as with many private sector organisations, all employees working from home are required to complete a self-assessment of their working conditions and certify they are safe.

It wouldn't surprise me, but the management of health and safety at work is a management function and it can't be delegated.

[Iommi]

It wouldn't surprise me, but the management of health and safety at work is a management function and it can't be delegated.

I disagree, employees are obliged to conduct themselves in a safe way and bring to the employer's attention any health and safety concerns while at work.

[Exhausted]

Stress is as much an industrial injury as falling from a scaffold and it is rarely adequately managed.

Yes, that's another modern syndrome. If they can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen and go and get a job where they can cope with the day to day workload. House painting is fairly stress free. If they can't do the job then terminate their employment rather than costing, in the case of public service employees, us the taxpayers for a year at home with a damp cloth over their eyes.

[Chesapeake]

You are all joking about risk assessment at home and health and safety being involved in home work. It's not exactly an iron foundry in the living room.

Just try and keep it in perspective, more likely to scald themselves when making a cup of tea. That would be laughed out of any compensation against the employer but perhaps the kettle was faulty. As the employer didn't buy it and wasn't involved in its' purchase......and so on...

Our whole world has just dropped down from common sense to looking to blame somebody if we are stupid enough to not take care and be responsible for our own actions. A direct result of the legal system ambulance chasing. It is also a good earner for sections within todays business, usually driven by the fireproof employees in the Human Resources department.

You are quite right in that you are more likely to have an accident at home. But, if you were expected to work from home on a computer for long/longish hours then a company could be held liable if they had not given you the information/training in how to work at your workstation 'healthily'. If you were provided with this information/training at work you would be expected to apply the same principles at home. If your job was home-based or required working from home it should show in your contract of employment and your contract of employment/terms and conditions of employment should state that you also have a duty of care to yourself and those around you.

Your employer should provide you with the tools (information) in order for you to work safely.

[Simon Kirby]

I disagree, employees are obliged to conduct themselves in a safe way and bring to the employer's attention any health and safety concerns while at work.

That's all quite true, but the employer has a legal duty under the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999 to assess and mitigate the risks, and that assessment is a management function which can't be delegated to the employee.

[Simon Kirby]

Yes, that's another modern syndrome. If they can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen and go and get a job where they can cope with the day to day workload. House painting is fairly stress free. If they can't do the job then terminate their employment rather than costing, in the case of public service employees, us the taxpayers for a year at home with a damp cloth over their eyes.

Employers certainly used to see their employees as expendable, and the trade union movement grew out of just that attitude. Mental health issues still have more of a stigma than physical health issues and it's a sad indictment of commercial morality that it takes legislation to protect employees. No one should need to suffer ill health and injury as a consequence of their work, and that's as true in the private sector as in the public sector.

[Jayjay]

Yes, that's another modern syndrome. If they can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen and go and get a job where they can cope with the day to day workload. House painting is fairly stress free. If they can't do the job then terminate their employment rather than costing, in the case of public service employees, us the taxpayers for a year at home with a damp cloth over their eyes.

I do think you are being a little harsh. I only have anecdotal evidence from the media, but the teaching profession must be under a lot of stress between unruly pupils, human rights issues and the ever changing syllabus. It is easy to say get out and a great many teachers have done just that, but to others it is a vocation. I also have sympathy with the public facing employees at Council offices as I have often witnessed them being verbally abused. When you take that on a daily basis for say 15 years, I think I would feel a certain amount of stress. one of the highest public sector jobs suffering from stress is hospital surgeons; on a daily basis you have the responsibility for hundreds of lives and also have to contend with budgets and deadlines.