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Newbury Today Forum _ Newbury News _ Should our councillors/ politicians use forums more to connect with us?
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 05:06 PM
Do you think our local and national politicians engage with us as they should? Replying to a comment made about Richard Garvie got me thinking:-
QUOTE
That maybe true, but his name is already getting noticed whether he puts that information up or not. Unless you know otherwise we should take it at face value. How many other politicians or councillors do you know - of either party - to have gone to the trouble and try to be informative and write on this forum? They don't really care about our views. Hats of to Richard Garvie in trying to engage us.
I am not saying this because I support his politics (I don't), but it is nice to see somebody actually trying to reach out. Even if it is for his own ends at least he is doing more than the other numskulls we've got as councillors.
I am not saying this because I support his politics (I don't), but it is nice to see somebody actually trying to reach out. Even if it is for his own ends at least he is doing more than the other numskulls we've got as councillors.
We are in the 21st Century and technology is our future. Forums, like this one, are really the only way we can discuss certain topics with a wide range of people/ groups involved at one time. Richard Garvie often comes on here to give his views, but at the same time allows us to challenge him. What other Newbury councillor or politician allows us to intermingle this way? It is hard to speak to our local politician or councillor without an appointment. Apart from that you can see them when they want our vote or that they preach to the brainless converted. Occasionally we might get a letter in the local paper or a News TV interview; telling everybody the good deeds they have just done.
Why don't they come on here and allow the public to challenge them, speak to them? In a public meeting it is usually one at a time and you are restricted. Forums are the future, more democratic and of course assessable. Hats off to Richard Garvie for allowing us to have access to him in a most accessible way.
Or maybe I am missing the point; the job of politician or councillor is just that; a job. Beyond that they are not really interested. I have heard of other politicians/ councillors who actually go on forums to engage the public and their views (not in Newbury though). Maybe Richard Garvie is one of those rare breeds who enjoys mingling with the good, the bad and the ugly. The others just stick their fingers up to the unclean and want to get on doing what most politicians like doing best (what springs to mind is the expenses scandal, doing inappropriate things, feathering their own nests, having affairs etc).
What do you think?
Posted by: Bartholomew Nov 20 2011, 05:37 PM
QUOTE (GMR @ Nov 20 2011, 05:06 PM) 
Do you think our local and national politicians engage with us as they should? Replying to a comment made about Richard Garvie got me thinking:-
We are in the 21st Century and technology is our future. Forums, like this one, are really the only way we can discuss certain topics with a wide range of people/ groups involved at one time. Richard Garvie often comes on here to give his views, but at the same time allows us to challenge him. What other Newbury councillor or politician allows us to intermingle this way? It is hard to speak to our local politician or councillor without an appointment. Apart from that you can see them when they want our vote or that they preach to the brainless converted. Occasionally we might get a letter in the local paper or a News TV interview; telling everybody the good deeds they have just done.
Why don't they come on here and allow the public to challenge them, speak to them? In a public meeting it is usually one at a time and you are restricted. Forums are the future, more democratic and of course assessable. Hats off to Richard Garvie for allowing us to have access to him in a most accessible way.
Or maybe I am missing the point; the job of politician or councillor is just that; a job. Beyond that they are not really interested. I have heard of other politicians/ councillors who actually go on forums to engage the public and their views (not in Newbury though). Maybe Richard Garvie is one of those rare breeds who enjoys mingling with the good, the bad and the ugly. The others just stick their fingers up to the unclean and want to get on doing what most politicians like doing best (what springs to mind is the expenses scandal, doing inappropriate things, feathering their own nests, having affairs etc).
What do you think?
We are in the 21st Century and technology is our future. Forums, like this one, are really the only way we can discuss certain topics with a wide range of people/ groups involved at one time. Richard Garvie often comes on here to give his views, but at the same time allows us to challenge him. What other Newbury councillor or politician allows us to intermingle this way? It is hard to speak to our local politician or councillor without an appointment. Apart from that you can see them when they want our vote or that they preach to the brainless converted. Occasionally we might get a letter in the local paper or a News TV interview; telling everybody the good deeds they have just done.
Why don't they come on here and allow the public to challenge them, speak to them? In a public meeting it is usually one at a time and you are restricted. Forums are the future, more democratic and of course assessable. Hats off to Richard Garvie for allowing us to have access to him in a most accessible way.
Or maybe I am missing the point; the job of politician or councillor is just that; a job. Beyond that they are not really interested. I have heard of other politicians/ councillors who actually go on forums to engage the public and their views (not in Newbury though). Maybe Richard Garvie is one of those rare breeds who enjoys mingling with the good, the bad and the ugly. The others just stick their fingers up to the unclean and want to get on doing what most politicians like doing best (what springs to mind is the expenses scandal, doing inappropriate things, feathering their own nests, having affairs etc).
What do you think?
yes
Posted by: Simon Kirby Nov 20 2011, 05:47 PM
Good points GMR. I too applaud RG for engaging where others fear to tread, he has my respect. David Allen was only too happy to post here on his own terms, but he didn't much like being challenged to account for the profit he made from the milage allowance as a Newbury Town Councillor and whether he declared it for tax - difficult to understand how that could be an awkward thing to ask unless he had some reason to avoid an honest answer. Of course the truth is that no one actually gives a stuff what our councils get up to, so why would they want to expose themselves here, there's just no up-side for them.
But you also kind of assume that councillors take their responsibilities seriously - but they don't. Most do it for the prestige and have little interest in what goes on. Go to any meeting and you'll see that most don't even contribute, and most of what is said is nothing more than a conditioned response that seeps out without any conscious mediation, doing nothing but pleasuring the speaker with the sound of their own voice. That just leaves the enthusiasts for whom politics itself is the hobby and the very last thing on their minds are the knuckle-dragging plebs who don't even know which council provides which service, so why would they want to expose themselves to the great unwashed.
Posted by: user23 Nov 20 2011, 05:53 PM
A nice idea in theory but the last Councillor to post on here was bullied, off topic about his personal tax return.
I imagine that this sort of behaviour is why we won't see him or any others return.
Posted by: Cognosco Nov 20 2011, 05:59 PM
QUOTE (Bartholomew @ Nov 20 2011, 05:37 PM)
yes
I assume all politicians are only there to look after their own, or their cliques, interests.
Unless they prove otherwise.
I have never been a Labour supporter, or any other party, but study the manifestos and make a decision.
After the last fiasco that has now proved pointless.
Richard comes along to the forum and educates some of us to what is going on in Newbury, yes, I know like any politician he puts his bit of spin on it, but just think back to all the local issues that he has enlightened us to that we would normally never get to hear of.
As stated I do not agree with a lot of his politics but I have to give credit where credit is due.
He comes on with enthusiam and he certainly takes a lot of knocks from some quarters but at least he is engaging with the local people.
If our councillors did the the same they may even find they earn some respect instead of being just a name on a ballot paper every once in a while. I would not even know my local councillor if he/she passed me by in the street.
But of course being a realist I know this is not going to come about any time soon . Councillors only want to be bothered with the electorate when there are elections on the horizon.
Posted by: Simon Kirby Nov 20 2011, 06:48 PM
Of course the Lib Dems started their own public forum last year which, apparently, was open to everyone. It would obviously be susceptible to political manipulation, but even on their own terms it would have been useful for the lib dems to engage publicly. Unfortunately as soon as a real voter turned up there they suspended the whole thing. All very cowardly.
Posted by: Cognosco Nov 20 2011, 06:57 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 05:53 PM)
A nice idea in theory but the last Councillor to post on here was bullied, off topic about his personal tax return.
I imagine that this sort of behaviour is why we won't see him or any others return.
I imagine that this sort of behaviour is why we won't see him or any others return.
Poor chap! Perhaps he should resign...if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen springs to mind?
Posted by: Richard Garvie Nov 20 2011, 07:20 PM
Just to add to the idea of people posting / engaging on forums, what about a quarterly "question time" style debate around the district with one person from each party and independents?
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 07:33 PM
QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Nov 20 2011, 07:20 PM)
Just to add to the idea of people posting / engaging on forums, what about a quarterly "question time" style debate around the district with one person from each party and independents?
you mean in person; face to face to so speak? You'll have the same problems as I have mentioned above. And only certain souls will get through and for a limited time. Forums give everybody a chance to voice their opinions and easy come backs. If you watch Question Time and local Question Times they have a chairman who controls what is said and can move on; to the annoyance of the questioner. With forums there is no hiding place.
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 07:41 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 05:53 PM)
A nice idea in theory but the last Councillor to post on here was bullied, off topic about his personal tax return.
I imagine that this sort of behaviour is why we won't see him or any others return.
I imagine that this sort of behaviour is why we won't see him or any others return.
Well; Richard Garvie has been hassled and always comes back. I can only suggest that the councillor you mentioned didn't have the ability or intelligence or both to come back (or was probably guilty). Which might suggest that he/ or she wasn't suited to their task.
As you well know people like AndyCap, Strafin, myself, and of course even your good self have all been hassled on here, but we all stood our ground. And we don't get paid for it; councillors do. If they can't take a bit of hassle then that exposes them as incompetent, weak and probably not up to the job. Councillors or politicians jobs are not for the faint hearted, or a job where you can hide away.
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 07:43 PM
QUOTE (Cognosco @ Nov 20 2011, 06:57 PM)
Poor chap! Perhaps he should resign...if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen springs to mind?
I replied to User 23 before i saw this post; but, yes, you are exactly right. He should have taken his head out of his a*se.
Posted by: user23 Nov 20 2011, 08:16 PM
QUOTE (GMR @ Nov 20 2011, 07:41 PM)
Well; Richard Garvie has been hassled and always comes back. I can only suggest that the councillor you mentioned didn't have the ability or intelligence or both to come back (or was probably guilty). Which might suggest that he/ or she wasn't suited to their task.
As you well know people like AndyCap, Strafin, myself, and of course even your good self have all been hassled on here, but we all stood our ground. And we don't get paid for it; councillors do. If they can't take a bit of hassle then that exposes them as incompetent, weak and probably not up to the job. Councillors or politicians jobs are not for the faint hearted, or a job where you can hide away.
Richard comes back because he needs the publicity.As you well know people like AndyCap, Strafin, myself, and of course even your good self have all been hassled on here, but we all stood our ground. And we don't get paid for it; councillors do. If they can't take a bit of hassle then that exposes them as incompetent, weak and probably not up to the job. Councillors or politicians jobs are not for the faint hearted, or a job where you can hide away.
As far as I know we've not been bullied, off topic by someone prying into our personal tax return.
If he was testing the water it certainly seems to have put the kibosh on any others joining us.
Like I said, nice idea but doesn't work here due the character of a few and the lack of moderation.
Posted by: Bartholomew Nov 20 2011, 08:23 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 08:16 PM)
Like I said, nice idea but doesn't work here due the character of a few and the lack of moderation.
Well, amazingly, I agree. You've done your best to intimidate many on this forum. That certainly hasn't helped.
Posted by: user23 Nov 20 2011, 08:25 PM
QUOTE (Bartholomew @ Nov 20 2011, 08:23 PM)
Well, amazingly, I agree. You've done your best to intimidate many on this forum. That certainly hasn't helped.
Intimidate many?
Posted by: Cognosco Nov 20 2011, 08:28 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 08:16 PM)
Richard comes back because he needs the publicity.
As far as I know we've not been bullied, off topic by someone prying into our personal tax return.
If he was testing the water it certainly seems to have put the kibosh on any others joining us.
Like I said, nice idea but doesn't work here due the character of a few and the lack of moderation.
As far as I know we've not been bullied, off topic by someone prying into our personal tax return.
If he was testing the water it certainly seems to have put the kibosh on any others joining us.
Like I said, nice idea but doesn't work here due the character of a few and the lack of moderation.
He could just do what the others do, inane grin, whilst stating what a great job he would do if elected?
He comes on here and takes all that you, and the other Supreme Leaders lackies, throw at him but just resiliently comes back for more. It is results that get you noticed and as stated earlier he has enlightened the forum on goings on that would never have reached the public domain without his input.
Whilst he continues to get inane responses from the likes of you then that is a sure sign he is doing something right.
If and when he does something wrong I will be one of the first to let him know...until then he has more of my respect than any of the other faceless unknown councillors.
Posted by: xjay1337 Nov 20 2011, 08:32 PM
This is a far too in depth conversation for a Sunday. Seriously don't people have anything better to do?
Posted by: Cognosco Nov 20 2011, 08:39 PM
QUOTE (xjay1337 @ Nov 20 2011, 08:32 PM)
This is a far too in depth conversation for a Sunday. Seriously don't people have anything better to do?
What could be more exciting that trying to tempt your local councillors to actually interact with the people who elect them? Shock horror it will never do; nothing good will come of this you know?
Posted by: Simon Kirby Nov 20 2011, 08:45 PM
QUOTE (Bartholomew @ Nov 20 2011, 08:23 PM)
Well, amazingly, I agree. You've done your best to intimidate many on this forum. That certainly hasn't helped.
Ooh, nice troll User, you snagged a big one. Reel him in slowly now.
Posted by: NWNREADER Nov 20 2011, 08:55 PM
I cannot imagine any Councillor engaging in policy discussions on an anonymous Forum, or even where names are given.
Does it happen anywhere?
Posted by: Strafin Nov 20 2011, 09:06 PM
Town councillors are basically volunteers are they not? I would not expect them to come on here they do enough. District councillors however get paid quite a large "allowance" and should earn it, so I believe it wouldn't hurt. Can't make them though.
Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 20 2011, 09:07 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 08:16 PM)
Richard comes back because he needs the publicity.
As far as I know we've not been bullied, off topic by someone prying into our personal tax return.
If he was testing the water it certainly seems to have put the kibosh on any others joining us.
Like I said, nice idea but doesn't work here due the character of a few and the lack of moderation.
As far as I know we've not been bullied, off topic by someone prying into our personal tax return.
If he was testing the water it certainly seems to have put the kibosh on any others joining us.
Like I said, nice idea but doesn't work here due the character of a few and the lack of moderation.
Rubbish. Allen, etc, legged it because they apparently had something to hide.
Posted by: Cognosco Nov 20 2011, 09:10 PM
QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Nov 20 2011, 08:55 PM)
I cannot imagine any Councillor engaging in policy discussions on an anonymous Forum, or even where names are given.
Does it happen anywhere?
Does it happen anywhere?
What difference does this make? If I or anyone sends a letter to a councillor does he not have a duty to reply? No matter what his name is or where he lives?
They can always do what they do now and ignore any questions they do not want to answer!
Only difference is it will expose how actually little they interact with the people they are supposed to be representing.
Posted by: Richard Garvie Nov 20 2011, 09:10 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 08:16 PM)
As far as I know we've not been bullied, off topic by someone prying into our personal tax return.
No tax investigation, but you have certainly did your best to slur me a couple of times...
If I say anything about an elected member, it is to do with their role on the council. All you do is look for ways to probe my personal / business life. I suggest you took a look ion the mirror before you bemoan lack of moderation.
Posted by: Simon Kirby Nov 20 2011, 09:13 PM
QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Nov 20 2011, 08:55 PM)
I cannot imagine any Councillor engaging in policy discussions on an anonymous Forum, or even where names are given.
Does it happen anywhere?
Does it happen anywhere?
Panda had some very close association with NTC and posted here until ordered not to, and I was followed onto my http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/ by a senior officer and Cllrs pumpkin43 and vegwise, the latter making a series of tiresome trolls.
Posted by: user23 Nov 20 2011, 09:16 PM
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 20 2011, 09:07 PM)
Rubbish. Allen, etc, legged it because they apparently had something to hide.
You should re-read the conversation.He left the forum after being harassed (despite answering all the questions) about his personal tax return.
The bickering in this thread is the best example of why I think councillors don't post here.
Posted by: spartacus Nov 20 2011, 09:19 PM
Whilst this forum is a means of passing the time sometimes, I'd suggest that any Councillor who posted on here and considered they were 'speaking to the masses' would be slightly deluded.... It's the same ten people who post. Hardly ranks as a mass readership....
Posted by: Simon Kirby Nov 20 2011, 09:19 PM
QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Nov 20 2011, 09:10 PM)
No tax investigation, but you have certainly did your best to slur me a couple of times...
Just a little experiment:
Richard Garvie, are you now or have you ever been a claimer of profitable mileage allowance at the public expense which you failed to declare to HMRC?
Now tell us honestly Richard, do you feel violated for me asking that? Are you so traumatized that you will never post again? Richard? Richard?
Posted by: Cognosco Nov 20 2011, 09:20 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 09:16 PM)
You should re-read the conversation.
He left the forum after being harassed (despite answering all the questions) about his personal tax return.
He left the forum after being harassed (despite answering all the questions) about his personal tax return.
Eh? I certainly missed that one then?
Poor little councillor could not cope unless it was all rehearsed first eh? Just like a council meeting me thinks!
Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 20 2011, 09:20 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 09:16 PM)
You should re-read the conversation.
He left the forum after being harassed (despite answering all the questions) about his personal tax return.
The bickering in this thread is the best example of why I think councillors don't post here.
He left the forum after being harassed (despite answering all the questions) about his personal tax return.
The bickering in this thread is the best example of why I think councillors don't post here.
He legged it after promising to answer; like all the other gutless councillors we have.
Posted by: user23 Nov 20 2011, 09:37 PM
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 20 2011, 09:20 PM)
He legged it after promising to answer; like all the other gutless councillors we have.
That'll get 'em posting on here.
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 10:08 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 08:16 PM)
Richard comes back because he needs the publicity.
As far as I know we've not been bullied, off topic by someone prying into our personal tax return.
If he was testing the water it certainly seems to have put the kibosh on any others joining us.
Like I said, nice idea but doesn't work here due the character of a few and the lack of moderation.
As far as I know we've not been bullied, off topic by someone prying into our personal tax return.
If he was testing the water it certainly seems to have put the kibosh on any others joining us.
Like I said, nice idea but doesn't work here due the character of a few and the lack of moderation.
I disagree. But I can understand your concerns working for WBC. But you must remember that councillors and politicians are open to scrutiny. The person you were talking about obviously didn't like us exposing something that should have been kept hidden. Honesty never has any concerns or problems; only those that have something to hide.
The truth of the matter is councillors and politicians don't want to lay their souls bare in case we see the skeletons hidden in the closet.
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 10:09 PM
QUOTE (xjay1337 @ Nov 20 2011, 08:32 PM)
This is a far too in depth conversation for a Sunday. Seriously don't people have anything better to do?
No
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 10:13 PM
QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Nov 20 2011, 08:55 PM)
I cannot imagine any Councillor engaging in policy discussions on an anonymous Forum, or even where names are given.
Does it happen anywhere?
Does it happen anywhere?
Why? Anonymous or not councillor are or should be answerable to the public who employ them. Out in the open do councillors or politicians really know who they are dealing with? Do they do police checks to see if they can talk to the person who is writing to them?
A councillor won't engage with us because he would be put under scrutiny; and that is what frightens them the post. Being exposed as a fraud and a cheat, and if not those things then at least incompetent.
Posted by: user23 Nov 20 2011, 10:15 PM
QUOTE (GMR @ Nov 20 2011, 10:08 PM)
I disagree. But I can understand your concerns working for WBC. But you must remember that councillors and politicians are open to scrutiny. The person you were talking about obviously didn't like us exposing something that should have been kept hidden. Honesty never has any concerns or problems; only those that have something to hide.
Really? How much do you earn? What's the PIN to your most used bank card? What's your mother's maiden name?
Of course I don't expect you to answer these questions, they're about your personal finances. Not answering them doesn't mean you're dishonest though, does it?
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 10:16 PM
QUOTE (Strafin @ Nov 20 2011, 09:06 PM)
Town councillors are basically volunteers are they not? I would not expect them to come on here they do enough. District councillors however get paid quite a large "allowance" and should earn it, so I believe it wouldn't hurt. Can't make them though.
They may be 'volunteers' but they volunteer to serve the public. And if that is the case then they should be answerable in whatever forum or form the public chooses.
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 10:16 PM
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 20 2011, 09:07 PM)
Rubbish. Allen, etc, legged it because they apparently had something to hide.
Exactly, my point.
Posted by: user23 Nov 20 2011, 10:17 PM
QUOTE (GMR @ Nov 20 2011, 10:16 PM)
They may be 'volunteers' but they volunteer to serve the public. And if that is the case then they should be answerable in whatever forum or form the public chooses.
Define "the public".Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 10:18 PM
QUOTE (Cognosco @ Nov 20 2011, 09:10 PM)
What difference does this make? If I or anyone sends a letter to a councillor does he not have a duty to reply? No matter what his name is or where he lives?
They can always do what they do now and ignore any questions they do not want to answer!
Only difference is it will expose how actually little they interact with the people they are supposed to be representing.
They can always do what they do now and ignore any questions they do not want to answer!
Only difference is it will expose how actually little they interact with the people they are supposed to be representing.
It is easy to hide in a letter, a lot more difficult when others are reading what you've just replied to.
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 10:20 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 09:16 PM)
You should re-read the conversation.
He left the forum after being harassed (despite answering all the questions) about his personal tax return.
The bickering in this thread is the best example of why I think councillors don't post here.
He left the forum after being harassed (despite answering all the questions) about his personal tax return.
The bickering in this thread is the best example of why I think councillors don't post here.
He was a councillor; he should have been above such questioning (or harassment as you call it). It is more likely that things were getting too hot for him and he decided to run.
How do you know anyway? Are you his confidant? I know you work for the council so I might just have answered my own question.
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 10:21 PM
QUOTE (Cognosco @ Nov 20 2011, 09:20 PM)
Eh? I certainly missed that one then?
Poor little councillor could not cope unless it was all rehearsed first eh? Just like a council meeting me thinks!
Poor little councillor could not cope unless it was all rehearsed first eh? Just like a council meeting me thinks!
Excellent reply and good point.
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 10:22 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 09:37 PM)
That'll get 'em posting on here.
No; confrontation, the truth and true exposure will make them dig deeper to hide from prying eyes.
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 10:27 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 10:15 PM)
Really?
Yes.
QUOTE
How much do you earn?
A legitimate question to a councillor or a politician.
QUOTE
What's the PIN to your most used bank card? What's your mother's maiden name?
If those questions were asked then they probably asked in jest. You always get certain rude questions. you either shrug your shoulders or smile. Was this person a weak kneed chap? If so then maybe he shouldn't be doing his job.
QUOTE
Of course I don't expect you to answer these questions, they're about your personal finances. Not answering them doesn't mean you're dishonest though, does it?
Actually; if I was a councillor or a politicians some questions should be answered, foolish ones are just ignored. As this is an open forum others can judge the validity of the questions. I am sure they get far worse in private.
Posted by: user23 Nov 20 2011, 10:29 PM
QUOTE (GMR @ Nov 20 2011, 10:22 PM)
No; confrontation, the truth and true exposure will make them dig deeper to hide from prying eyes.
Call me old fashioned but referring to someone you want to talk with you as gutless is never a good move.You didn't answer my questions by the way. "Honesty never has any concerns or problems; only those that have something to hide" apparently, so let's get them answers up here please.
Posted by: GMR Nov 20 2011, 10:34 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 10:29 PM)
Call me old fashioned but referring to someone you want to talk with you as gutless is never a good move.
I agree partly with what you say; but then again certain name calling is part and parcel of political or council life. Is this person that fragile and weak and easily intimidated? If so he shouldn't be doing his job.
QUOTE
You didn't answer my questions by the way.
Then I apologise as I always like to answer questions; I've looked back and can't see which question you are on about; could you please repeat it here?
Posted by: user23 Nov 20 2011, 10:44 PM
QUOTE (GMR @ Nov 20 2011, 10:34 PM)
I agree partly with what you say; but then again certain name calling is part and parcel of political or council life. Is this person that fragile and weak and easily intimidated? If so he shouldn't be doing his job.
This isn't part and parcel of political or council life, it's forum run by the local newspaper.Insulting a group of people then expecting them to talk to you, whoever they are, probably isn't going to work.
Posted by: Richard Garvie Nov 20 2011, 10:47 PM
Without taking sides, Simon asked questions about a publicly paid for trip. Nothing wrong with that in my book, and whilst some may question his method of asking the question, is it not a question that any public servant should be comfortable with answering? If anyone is going to claim expenses, they should be able to show they are genuine. I'm not saying they weren't in this case, but I would have liked the person in question to get past any personal conflict and / or issue and show that there was nothing to hide. By refusing to answer, you just bring more scrutiny and suspicion.
Posted by: user23 Nov 20 2011, 10:55 PM
QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Nov 20 2011, 10:47 PM)
Without taking sides, Simon asked questions about a publicly paid for trip. Nothing wrong with that in my book, and whilst some may question his method of asking the question, is it not a question that any public servant should be comfortable with answering? If anyone is going to claim expenses, they should be able to show they are genuine. I'm not saying they weren't in this case, but I would have liked the person in question to get past any personal conflict and / or issue and show that there was nothing to hide. By refusing to answer, you just bring more scrutiny and suspicion.
He didn't refuse to answer though, he answered and also pointed out Simon's calculations were incorrect.When Simon realised he wasn't going to wind up David about his expenses (as David answered all the questions), he let rip about everything and anything he could think of including Christmas Lights, market costs, mileage allowance, allotment self-management and David's personal Income Tax return all in one post.
http://forum.newburytoday.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1055&st=40&p=31403
Posted by: GMR Nov 21 2011, 12:00 AM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 10:44 PM)
This isn't part and parcel of political or council life, it's forum run by the local newspaper.
it doesn't matter who runs the forum; it is a place to debate and talk about Newbury. We are in the 21st Century so it should be "part and parcel of political or council life". Other councils or political constituencies use modern means to engage their voting public. Maybe Newbury councillors and politicians should get their head out where the sun don't shine and start living in the 21st Century.
QUOTE
Insulting a group of people then expecting them to talk to you, whoever they are, probably isn't going to work.
That depends what you mean by 'insulting'? Political life is rough and isn't an easy ride; to think otherwise is a sign of naivety and somebody not fit for such robust life.
I wasn't a councillor or a politician but I was a vice chairman on a local committee, including being a member of NAG. I took the rough with the smooth; including on forums. I was never afraid to answer questions, or give as good as I got. I knew exactly what it meant when I took the job on. Your friend seems to have lived in a fantasy world where everybody just patted him on the back and tickled his testicles.
Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 21 2011, 10:48 AM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 10:55 PM)
He didn't refuse to answer though, he answered and also pointed out Simon's calculations were incorrect.
When Simon realised he wasn't going to wind up David about his expenses (as David answered all the questions), he let rip about everything and anything he could think of including Christmas Lights, market costs, mileage allowance, allotment self-management and David's personal Income Tax return all in one post.
http://forum.newburytoday.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1055&st=40&p=31403
When Simon realised he wasn't going to wind up David about his expenses (as David answered all the questions), he let rip about everything and anything he could think of including Christmas Lights, market costs, mileage allowance, allotment self-management and David's personal Income Tax return all in one post.
http://forum.newburytoday.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1055&st=40&p=31403
On that thread, this was the last thing he posted:
QUOTE (David Allen @ Jan 14 2011, 10:41 AM)
Watch this space. It may take a day or two to compile some interesting facts and figures for you to digest but I will make an effort to supply them for early next week. Regards
Posted by: Simon Kirby Nov 21 2011, 12:56 PM
Assuming for a moment that, as User contends, David Allen left the forum because he felt bullied and humiliated by what he described as my vexatious questions about the council budget, and in particular the 20p per mile clear profit he makes on the mileage allowance and whether he declared it to HMRC: do you think that David Allen and his fellow councillors would be mindful of that painful experience when, four weeks later, the Council resolved to serve me with a notice to quit my allotment?
Posted by: Cognosco Nov 21 2011, 05:41 PM
QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Nov 21 2011, 12:56 PM)
Assuming for a moment that, as User contends, David Allen left the forum because he felt bullied and humiliated by what he described as my vexatious questions about the council budget, and in particular the 20p per mile clear profit he makes on the mileage allowance and whether he declared it to HMRC: do you think that David Allen and his fellow councillors would be mindful of that painful experience when, four weeks later, the Council resolved to serve me with a notice to quit my allotment?
Did I hear someone mention conspiracy? Surely not?
Posted by: Cognosco Nov 21 2011, 06:07 PM
QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 20 2011, 10:55 PM)
He didn't refuse to answer though, he answered and also pointed out Simon's calculations were incorrect.
When Simon realised he wasn't going to wind up David about his expenses (as David answered all the questions), he let rip about everything and anything he could think of including Christmas Lights, market costs, mileage allowance, allotment self-management and David's personal Income Tax return all in one post.
http://forum.newburytoday.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1055&st=40&p=31403
When Simon realised he wasn't going to wind up David about his expenses (as David answered all the questions), he let rip about everything and anything he could think of including Christmas Lights, market costs, mileage allowance, allotment self-management and David's personal Income Tax return all in one post.
http://forum.newburytoday.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1055&st=40&p=31403
And we are still waiting for David to find the answers he promised that he would come back with in his last post?
Must be one heck of a filing system at the council to take this long?
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