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Newbury Today Forum _ Random Rants _ 29th March 2019

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 23 2018, 06:00 PM

Lets have a National holiday!

Posted by: newres Jun 23 2018, 08:22 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 23 2018, 07:00 PM) *
Lets have a National holiday!

Lilke Martin Luther King Day?

Incidentally, I thought youíd gone?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 23 2018, 08:45 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 23 2018, 09:22 PM) *
Lilke Martin Luther King Day?

Incidentally, I thought youíd gone?


I have. No more nasty me. Just popping in now and again to see the tumbleweed on your "right on" views. Marching today were we? I mean we need another vote....

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 24 2018, 09:14 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 23 2018, 09:45 PM) *
I have. No more nasty me. Just popping in now and again to see the tumbleweed on your "right on" views. Marching today were we? I mean we need another vote....

I think we do.

Posted by: SirWilliam Jun 24 2018, 01:43 PM

Let's keep marching and shouting till we not only get another vote but one that the minority wants. This democracy malarkey is not only bad for business but stands in the way of a half decent jolly to party with our French counterparts. It is now becoming a war of contrition between the vociferous 10% who want to remain and the 10% who want out. Like the fox hunting abolition bill, 80% of the public wish they would get on with it.

Posted by: newres Jun 24 2018, 02:29 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 24 2018, 02:43 PM) *
Let's keep marching and shouting till we not only get another vote but one that the minority wants. This democracy malarkey is not only bad for business but stands in the way of a half decent jolly to party with our French counterparts. It is now becoming a war of contrition between the vociferous 10% who want to remain and the 10% who want out. Like the fox hunting abolition bill, 80% of the public wish they would get on with it.

You may well have a point.

If we're out, we're out, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. That's what the hardliners want. I'd be happy to accept a result that protects industry and jobs. But leaving the single market is suicidal. If we have to continue to accept EU migration then so be it. For those that voted on the immigration issue, in the main it wasn't EU migrants that they were concerned about.

Posted by: x2lls Jun 24 2018, 03:10 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 03:29 PM) *
You may well have a point.

If we're out, we're out, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. That's what the hardliners want. I'd be happy to accept a result that protects industry and jobs. But leaving the single market is suicidal. If we have to continue to accept EU migration then so be it. For those that voted on the immigration issue, in the main it wasn't EU migrants that they were concerned about.



For crying out loud, "hardliners".

Posted by: newres Jun 24 2018, 04:14 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 24 2018, 04:10 PM) *
For crying out loud, "hardliners".

Well obviously not many of them will have been ďself radicalisedĒ like you.

Posted by: x2lls Jun 24 2018, 04:29 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:14 PM) *
Well obviously not many of them will have been ďself radicalisedĒ like you.


Silly silly.

Posted by: newres Jun 24 2018, 04:35 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 24 2018, 05:29 PM) *
Silly silly.

I think thatís the term used when someone sits in their bedrooms in their y fronts watching Britain First videos. laugh.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 24 2018, 05:15 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:35 PM) *
I think thatís the term used when someone sits in their bedrooms in their y fronts watching Britain First videos. laugh.gif

Anyone who doesn't follow the MSM cr@p that you fawn over is a racist scumbag.

Some people are not 🐑.

Posted by: newres Jun 24 2018, 05:23 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 24 2018, 06:15 PM) *
Anyone who doesn't follow the MSM cr@p that you fawn over is a racist scumbag.

Some people are not 🐑.

Following Britain First does though doesn't it?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 24 2018, 05:36 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 06:23 PM) *
Following Britain First does though doesn't it?


Does he / she? Evidence? Or are you seeing them through your "everyones a racist" tinted spectacles???

Posted by: newres Jun 24 2018, 05:43 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 24 2018, 06:36 PM) *
Does he / she? Evidence? Or are you seeing them through your "everyones a racist" tinted spectacles???

I donít have such spectacles. But I think itís pretty reasonable to state that Britain First would share many of the same sentiments as the BNP. Iím sure there are some followers who arenít racist but the majority will be. They do say they are anti immigration, but only an idiot would think we donít need immigrants.

Posted by: SirWilliam Jun 24 2018, 06:32 PM

Once again the Brexit division rekindles old hostilities amongst the great unwashed. Just because the media singled out a few "bovver boyze" to justify the immigration factor in the leave vote instead of actually asking those who were quite simply fed up with the creeping federalism being propagated by Berlin and it's sycophantic followers, we are now branded racist reactionaries by those "who know best".
Maybe we need European workers, ( least they work ), maybe not, but we are hardly going to shoot ourselves in the foot by putting a "no entry" sign at Dover while potatoes rot in the fields.
Is it too much to ask forum contributors to form a consensus on how best to leave as opposed to this silly name calling.

Posted by: newres Jun 24 2018, 07:07 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 24 2018, 07:32 PM) *
Once again the Brexit division rekindles old hostilities amongst the great unwashed. Just because the media singled out a few "bovver boyze" to justify the immigration factor in the leave vote instead of actually asking those who were quite simply fed up with the creeping federalism being propagated by Berlin and it's sycophantic followers, we are now branded racist reactionaries by those "who know best".
Maybe we need European workers, ( least they work ), maybe not, but we are hardly going to shoot ourselves in the foot by putting a "no entry" sign at Dover while potatoes rot in the fields.
Is it too much to ask forum contributors to form a consensus on how best to leave as opposed to this silly name calling.

The problem is that in order for it to be palatable for me, we have to stay in the single market. In order to do that it means we have to accept free movement and that makes it unpalatable to the racists, sorry Brexiteers.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 24 2018, 08:18 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 08:07 PM) *
The problem is that in order for it to be palatable for me, we have to stay in the single market. In order to do that it means we have to accept free movement and that makes it unpalatable to the racists, sorry Brexiteers.

No need to be sorry fella. We voted out. Its called democracy. Even if you don't like it. We wouldn't be doing so well in the World Cup if we'd voted to stay.😂

Posted by: newres Jun 24 2018, 08:30 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 24 2018, 09:18 PM) *
No need to be sorry fella. We voted out. Its called democracy. Even if you don't like it. We wouldn't be doing so well in the World Cup if we'd voted to stay.😂

Doing so well in the World Cup? You really are deluded. Beating Panama and Tunisia? laugh.gif

Posted by: x2lls Jun 24 2018, 10:56 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:14 PM) *
Well obviously not many of them will have been ďself radicalisedĒ like you.




More than your lot.

Google the term and come back with the best description that most matches YOUR view of your accusation.

Posted by: x2lls Jun 25 2018, 12:53 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:35 PM) *
I think thatís the term used when someone sits in their bedrooms in their y fronts watching Britain First videos. laugh.gif


I suggest you stop thinking then if you haven't already.

The real definition is attached here for your delectation. Go ooon, you know you want to open it and see what's in the package.

[attachment=268:silly.jpg]

No wonder you are out of touch with reality Newres (BTW, how DID you come up with that nic?)

Best regards young fella wink.gif

Yer ol' mate

#FreeTommy

PS:- Banknotes all over the world are being signed, yes, worldwide!!

https://www.facebook.com/thetommyrobinson/photos/a.383524185116975.1073741828.381971441938916/1283601385109246/?type=3&comment_id=1284486198354098&notif_id=1529794398833673&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif



[attachment=269:Tommy_Ro...Free_Man.jpg]



Posted by: x2lls Jun 25 2018, 03:08 AM

You cannot deny this is global, the BBC don't count and neither do all the other MSMs the march went past. Career protecting victims.

https://www.facebook.com/thetommyrobinson/videos/1288392054630179/

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 25 2018, 08:02 AM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 25 2018, 04:08 AM) *
You cannot deny this is global, the BBC don't count and neither do all the other MSMs the march went past. Career protecting victims.

https://www.facebook.com/thetommyrobinson/videos/1288392054630179/

Eh?

Posted by: newres Jun 25 2018, 10:17 AM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 25 2018, 04:08 AM) *
You cannot deny this is global, the BBC don't count and neither do all the other MSMs the march went past. Career protecting victims.

https://www.facebook.com/thetommyrobinson/videos/1288392054630179/

How did they miss this global phenomena of two protests. laugh.gif

Posted by: Strafin Jun 25 2018, 11:13 AM

I gotta ask, what are MSM's? I assume mainstream media?

Posted by: SirWilliam Jun 25 2018, 02:07 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jun 25 2018, 12:13 PM) *
I gotta ask, what are MSM's? I assume mainstream media?


Just googled it https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/MSM

Must admit I find this one more fitting to certain contributors. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Strafin Jun 25 2018, 02:29 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 25 2018, 03:07 PM) *
Just googled it https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/MSM

Must admit I find this one more fitting to certain contributors. rolleyes.gif

Thats brilliant!

Works for me!

Posted by: newres Jun 25 2018, 05:22 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 25 2018, 03:07 PM) *
Just googled it https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/MSM

Must admit I find this one more fitting to certain contributors. rolleyes.gif

You think some members here are gay? Repressed homosexuality is quite common in right wing types so you may have a point.

Posted by: SirWilliam Jun 25 2018, 05:28 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 25 2018, 06:22 PM) *
You think some members here are gay? Repressed homosexuality is quite common in right wing types so you may have a point.


What my late father referred to as " the public school syndrome".

Mustn't stereotype though as I have no wish to alienate anyone.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 25 2018, 06:21 PM

ďThe whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Ē

Bertrand Russell

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 25 2018, 06:57 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 25 2018, 06:22 PM) *
You think some members here are gay? Repressed homosexuality is quite common in right wing types so you may have a point.

Nah.. I find lefty liberals more likely to be in that camp. But hey.. Its a free world and I certianly don't have a problem with gay people. Sounds like you do though which is surprising for such a tolerant right on fella.🌈

Posted by: On the edge Jun 26 2018, 06:01 AM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 24 2018, 07:32 PM) *
Once again the Brexit division rekindles old hostilities amongst the great unwashed. Just because the media singled out a few "bovver boyze" to justify the immigration factor in the leave vote instead of actually asking those who were quite simply fed up with the creeping federalism being propagated by Berlin and it's sycophantic followers, we are now branded racist reactionaries by those "who know best".
Maybe we need European workers, ( least they work ), maybe not, but we are hardly going to shoot ourselves in the foot by putting a "no entry" sign at Dover while potatoes rot in the fields.
Is it too much to ask forum contributors to form a consensus on how best to leave as opposed to this silly name calling.


How best we leave?

Up to now weíve been negotiating our exit like a civil contract. Talking to the EU on the basis as supplicant; let us know what you want to let us go. If we took the key EU imports to UK and did a Trump, and also suggested weíd liberalise our money markets considerably, the boot would be on the other foot. There is no nice way to negotiaye a big deal.

Posted by: SirWilliam Jun 26 2018, 09:49 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 26 2018, 07:01 AM) *
How best we leave?

Up to now weíve been negotiating our exit like a civil contract. Talking to the EU on the basis as supplicant; let us know what you want to let us go. If we took the key EU imports to UK and did a Trump, and also suggested weíd liberalise our money markets considerably, the boot would be on the other foot. There is no nice way to negotiaye a big deal.


That would be my stance, in as much that we are leaving and any border issues is for the EU to sort out not us. We are unlikely to get a trade deal per se but if the Germans want to sell us their cars they are going to have to be a little flexible in buying whatever it is we manufacture. ( Do we actually make anything? ).

Posted by: James_Trinder Jun 26 2018, 12:34 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 26 2018, 09:49 AM) *
Do we actually make anything?


Yes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_the_United_Kingdom

Posted by: On the edge Jun 26 2018, 02:29 PM

QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Jun 26 2018, 01:34 PM) *
Yes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_the_United_Kingdom


If only things were so straightforward!

Posted by: SirWilliam Jun 26 2018, 05:44 PM

QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Jun 26 2018, 01:34 PM) *
Yes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_the_United_Kingdom


Agreed we bolt things together for multi-nationals and undoubtedly supply the bolts for some overseas manufacturers but it seems the only fully owned British transport manufacturer is a motor cycle factory in Coventry. Now worse case scenario and BMW move production from Cowley to some Bavarian barn, what is stopping us making a low production car that fits present, and future, needs?
Instead of wringing hands in the belief that the sky is going to fall in and we will be back in the stone age within 20 years it is time for the free thinkers to start grasping the nettle.

Posted by: newres Jun 27 2018, 05:19 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 26 2018, 07:01 AM) *
How best we leave?

Up to now weíve been negotiating our exit like a civil contract. Talking to the EU on the basis as supplicant; let us know what you want to let us go. If we took the key EU imports to UK and did a Trump, and also suggested weíd liberalise our money markets considerably, the boot would be on the other foot. There is no nice way to negotiaye a big deal.

But that isnít going well. On the first round Trumpís imposition of steel tariffs has resulted in counter measures. If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over. And there will be unintended consequences such as Harley Davidson shifting production away from the US. Negotiating in the real world isnít about pissing the other side off as the other side can simply walk away. Itís about being realistic. As hard as it is for the Brexiteers to accept, the UK has a weak hand. Weíve now got major world players telling it like it is. If we donít stay in the single market and customs union hundreds of thousands of jobs will go.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 27 2018, 06:28 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 06:19 AM) *
But that isnít going well. On the first round Trumpís imposition of steel tariffs has resulted in counter measures. If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over. And there will be unintended consequences such as Harley Davidson shifting production away from the US. Negotiating in the real world isnít about pissing the other side off as the other side can simply walk away. Itís about being realistic. As hard as it is for the Brexiteers to accept, the UK has a weak hand. Weíve now got major world players telling it like it is. If we donít stay in the single market and customs union hundreds of thousands of jobs will go.


Exactly, If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over, then we'd be negotiating for real. Remember, the first response isn't the closing outcome. Believe me, yes, people are worries about our leaving causing job losses; to my knowledge in Germany and Holland for sure. Competing in World markets is hard, always was, always will be. Ironically, this was and still is, a major EU Commission concern, the EU's own outlook for its place in the emerging World economy isn't looking good at all.

Posted by: newres Jun 27 2018, 07:23 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 07:28 AM) *
Exactly, If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over, then we'd be negotiating for real. Remember, the first response isn't the closing outcome. Believe me, yes, people are worries about our leaving causing job losses; to my knowledge in Germany and Holland for sure. Competing in World markets is hard, always was, always will be. Ironically, this was and still is, a major EU Commission concern, the EU's own outlook for its place in the emerging World economy isn't looking good at all.

That's not negotiating though. That's economic warfare. Have you ever negotiated in business? It's not hostile. You're confusing a messy divorce in which emotions rule with negotiation.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 27 2018, 08:03 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 08:23 AM) *
That's not negotiating though. That's economic warfare. Have you ever negotiated in business? It's not hostile. You're confusing a messy divorce in which emotions rule with negotiation.


Yes, what I did for many years. Sorry but very big contracts usually are, if they aren't then it's a roll over! To cope with this is one reason we teach kids games at school, any competitive sport, by definition, is 'hostile' because both sides want to win. If we take the EU, they are playing exactly by these rules, hence using the negotiators they've chosen. I'd argue that the way we are negotiating us akin to Manchester United playing Thatcham Town!

Posted by: newres Jun 27 2018, 11:11 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 09:03 AM) *
Yes, what I did for many years. Sorry but very big contracts usually are, if they aren't then it's a roll over! To cope with this is one reason we teach kids games at school, any competitive sport, by definition, is 'hostile' because both sides want to win. If we take the EU, they are playing exactly by these rules, hence using the negotiators they've chosen. I'd argue that the way we are negotiating us akin to Manchester United playing Thatcham Town!

Funny really. When the inevitable happens and we either obey the rules of the club or leave empty handed you and others will blame the negotiating rather than the reality that you canít be in a club without following the club rules. They arenít going to give us access unless we accept free movement and the other things. TM is in an impossible situation.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 27 2018, 12:24 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 12:11 PM) *
Funny really. When the inevitable happens and we either obey the rules of the club or leave empty handed you and others will blame the negotiating rather than the reality that you canít be in a club without following the club rules. They arenít going to give us access unless we accept free movement and the other things. TM is in an impossible situation.


No, it's not worth being in a club where the members don't play by the rules, for me, that's the reason we are coming out. The EU members simply don't.

Like Sir Austin Chamberlain, we've always played the game and we've always lost.

Just one small proof - London Electricity was purchased by the French nationalised electricity supplier (EdF) although there were several other private bids. Could a private UK utility take over EdF, er no, of course not. What did the EU do aboutthe that...........

Just like the imperialisim it sought to emulate, the EU has had its day.

Posted by: newres Jun 27 2018, 02:43 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 01:24 PM) *
No, it's not worth being in a club where the members don't play by the rules, for me, that's the reason we are coming out. The EU members simply don't.

Like Sir Austin Chamberlain, we've always played the game and we've always lost.

Just one small proof - London Electricity was purchased by the French nationalised electricity supplier (EdF) although there were several other private bids. Could a private UK utility take over EdF, er no, of course not. What did the EU do aboutthe that...........

Just like the imperialisim it sought to emulate, the EU has had its day.

If you can tell me where EU rules were breached by the French I'll join you in condemning it. I don't have that kind of knowledge. My own experience is that often it's our implementation of the EU rules that handicaps us. Normally our interpretation is as free market as possible because that's our general ethos (well our government's). The French tend to protect their economy and farmers and even small traders. As long as it's withing the rules it's all cool in the kaftan.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 27 2018, 05:37 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 03:43 PM) *
If you can tell me where EU rules were breached by the French I'll join you in condemning it. I don't have that kind of knowledge. My own experience is that often it's our implementation of the EU rules that handicaps us. Normally our interpretation is as free market as possible because that's our general ethos (well our government's). The French tend to protect their economy and farmers and even small traders. As long as it's withing the rules it's all cool in the kaftan.


Yes, that's exactly right. The French and ironically the Germans are well versed in interpreting the prolix and onerous rules to protect their nation state interests, often to the detriment of free market. In the case I mentioned, the 'rules' comprise several fine print volumes.

I'd agree the difficulty is our Civil Service who interpret 'to the letter', in other words following English common law principles which is based on Mosaic law. The EU nation state legal systems tend to be based on Roman law, which is far more codified and open to interpretation. So, it's a bit like two teams trying to play hockey, with one team playing by the rules of lawn tennis on the basis that both games use bats and balls.

We've had nigh on 40 years to get the rules changed and make things better, but we haven't managed to do that. Again, Germany, France, Italy still have mass motor manufacturers whereas we don't.

In business terms at least, we have more of a chance of success with the emerging major economies in Asia / China / Inda on our own than with the EU, which is now too large to be as agile as new markets need.

I also agree that the decade plus it will take us to get up to speed will be economically difficult and possibly quite painful, but the end result will be a brighter long term future. First world dominance is sinking - we are safer in our own uncomfortable lifeboat.

Posted by: newres Jun 27 2018, 06:16 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 06:37 PM) *
Yes, that's exactly right. The French and ironically the Germans are well versed in interpreting the prolix and onerous rules to protect their nation state interests, often to the detriment of free market. In the case I mentioned, the 'rules' comprise several fine print volumes.

I'd agree the difficulty is our Civil Service who interpret 'to the letter', in other words following English common law principles which is based on Mosaic law. The EU nation state legal systems tend to be based on Roman law, which is far more codified and open to interpretation. So, it's a bit like two teams trying to play hockey, with one team playing by the rules of lawn tennis on the basis that both games use bats and balls.

We've had nigh on 40 years to get the rules changed and make things better, but we haven't managed to do that. Again, Germany, France, Italy still have mass motor manufacturers whereas we don't.

In business terms at least, we have more of a chance of success with the emerging major economies in Asia / China / Inda on our own than with the EU, which is now too large to be as agile as new markets need.


I also agree that the decade plus it will take us to get up to speed will be economically difficult and possibly quite painful, but the end result will be a brighter long term future. First world dominance is sinking - we are safer in our own uncomfortable lifeboat.

The bit in red doesn't make sense. We trade independently of the EU. The EU negotiates tariffs and so on, but we trade at company level not national or continent level. I think broad claims like that are just rhetoric.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 27 2018, 06:32 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 07:16 PM) *
The bit in red doesn't make sense. We trade independently of the EU. The EU negotiates tariffs and so on, but we trade at company level not national or continent level. I think broad claims like that are just rhetoric.


I don't. People voted in general on a sovereignty and anti immigration ticket. You may not like the outcome but if they reneged on the referendum you wouldn't have 100000 Marching in London, you'd have millions. The geney is out of the bottle and no matter how much you want to put the stopper back in, it ain't gonna happen. So either accept it and make the best of what you perceive to be a bad situation or think seriously about relocating to the EU. For your own sanity. You can help Jean Claude with his bar bill.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 27 2018, 07:46 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 03:43 PM) *
If you can tell me where EU rules were breached by the French I'll join you in condemning it. I don't have that kind of knowledge. My own experience is that often it's our implementation of the EU rules that handicaps us. Normally our interpretation is as free market as possible because that's our general ethos (well our government's). The French tend to protect their economy and farmers and even small traders. As long as it's withing the rules it's all cool in the kaftan.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-merkel-germany-breaks-more-eu-rules-worst-bottom-class-a8198271.html

Posted by: newres Jun 28 2018, 05:20 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 27 2018, 07:32 PM) *
I don't. People voted in general on a sovereignty and anti immigration ticket. You may not like the outcome but if they reneged on the referendum you wouldn't have 100000 Marching in London, you'd have millions. The geney is out of the bottle and no matter how much you want to put the stopper back in, it ain't gonna happen. So either accept it and make the best of what you perceive to be a bad situation or think seriously about relocating to the EU. For your own sanity. You can help Jean Claude with his bar bill.

We are leaving the EU, but what was not in the referendum was the detail. The government isn't going to let the country crash. The outcome will be compromise. Not between the EU and UK, but between factions of the Tory party. The so called red lines will have to move.

People voted on sovereignty only. There was no vote on immigration.

Posted by: newres Jun 28 2018, 05:53 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 27 2018, 08:46 PM) *
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-merkel-germany-breaks-more-eu-rules-worst-bottom-class-a8198271.html

As long as the rules are enforced when seen to be broken. That's why the ECJ exists.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 28 2018, 06:00 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 07:16 PM) *
The bit in red doesn't make sense. We trade independently of the EU. The EU negotiates tariffs and so on, but we trade at company level not national or continent level. I think broad claims like that are just rhetoric.


Yes we do trade at company level, but for many years subject to government rules. For instance, in some cases, such as arms, our government even dictates to whom we can sell to. The reality of the EU is that at best it simply adds an extra layer of rules which necessarily adds cost and complexity. For some continental nations, trading is easier because they have adopted a common currency but as we have seen, that brings many other problems. Similarly, cross boarder customs checks can be reduced, but we shouldn't run away with the idea that they don't exist. Back in the early 70's when we joined, our international trading customs and currency arrangements all worked well. Our biggest issue back then was internal - poor productivity; arguably the symptom of bad management.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 28 2018, 06:04 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 06:53 AM) *
As long as the rules are enforced when seen to be broken. That's why the ECJ exists.

The ECJ???

I thought it existed to give married men in dresses a pension at 60.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44612117

Get your pension 5 years early. Start wearing a dress at 59. Quite appealing in this weather!!!😂

Posted by: newres Jun 28 2018, 06:08 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 28 2018, 07:04 AM) *
The ECJ???

I thought it existed to give married men in dresses a pension at 60.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44612117

Get your pension 5 years early. Start wearing a dress at 59. Quite appealing in this weather!!!😂

Does your list of phobias know no limits?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 28 2018, 06:45 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 07:08 AM) *
Does your list of phobias know no limits?

😂

Posted by: On the edge Jun 28 2018, 06:53 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 27 2018, 08:46 PM) *
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-merkel-germany-breaks-more-eu-rules-worst-bottom-class-a8198271.html


That's interesting, I've often thought that Germany is exceptionally good at avoiding. They generally do it like the Starbucks / Amazon tax avoidance, all strictly legal, but not right. The French are more open, just say no!

Frankly, it's hardly surprising that the EU regulations are so easy to avoid. Anyone who has been involved in trying to deliver a major project to multiple customers will fully understand the difficulties of working with say five different 'owners' let alone twenty plus, all with different languages and cultures.

Posted by: Biker1 Jun 28 2018, 07:10 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 07:08 AM) *
Does your list of phobias know no limits?

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/phobias/
"A phobia is an overwhelming and debilitating fear of an object, place, situation, feeling or animal."
Another English word that is regularly misused.

Posted by: newres Jun 28 2018, 12:27 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jun 28 2018, 08:10 AM) *
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/phobias/
"A phobia is an overwhelming and debilitating fear of an object, place, situation, feeling or animal."
Another English word that is regularly misused.

Sorry, I didn't invent the terms Islamophobia, transphobia, homophobia, xenophobia and so on... laugh.gif

Posted by: dannyboy Jun 28 2018, 04:52 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 27 2018, 07:32 PM) *
People voted in general on a sovereignty and anti immigration ticket.



UK sovereignty was never under threat from the EU & the UK will, post Brexit, still need workers from overseas who will come here & work. Trebles all round.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 28 2018, 06:10 PM

QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 28 2018, 05:52 PM) *
UK sovereignty was never under threat from the EU & the UK will, post Brexit, still need workers from overseas who will come here & work. Trebles all round.


Depends what you define as Sovereignty. We have a Sovereign and look at the huge powers she has laugh.gif

The EU made no bones about it, 'ever closer union' was and still is the ultimate aim. When that happens doubtless we'll have a ceremonial Westminister with as much power as the County of Berkshire!

We've always had workers from overseas, even before we joined the EU. Don't think very many thought we'd not need overseasj workers when we come out. That flys in the face of past history. For instance, an MP called Powell I think, arranged for large numbers to come to help run our Health service back in the 60s.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 28 2018, 07:08 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 01:27 PM) *
Sorry, I didn't invent the terms Islamophobia, transphobia, homophobia, xenophobia and so on... laugh.gif

I have newresophobia

The fear of someone who wants to live in a basket case of a country.

Posted by: newres Jun 28 2018, 09:01 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 28 2018, 08:08 PM) *
I have newresophobia

The fear of someone who wants to live in a basket case of a country.

Oh the irony.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 28 2018, 09:42 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 10:01 PM) *
Oh the irony.

Opinions fella. We all have them. We may not see eye to eye but I respect your will to write the gibberish you spout.👍

Posted by: newres Jun 29 2018, 04:20 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 28 2018, 10:42 PM) *
Opinions fella. We all have them. We may not see eye to eye but I respect your will to write the gibberish you spout.👍

However the Brexit leaderís view on business is ďF U C K businessĒ. Now I assume by ďbasket caseĒ you mean economically. Business is pretty much unanimously telling us that we will lose jobs if we donít stay in the single market. Itís kind of obvious really. In my opinion nothing is more important than us being economically sound as a nation because that means we can provide healthcare, security, welfare and so on. A notion of ďtaking back control ď is just a ďnotionĒ. There wonít even be less immigration as long as we need workers and the Syrian refugee crisis wonít be affected as we are an island and not in Schengen. Although obviously weíre gonna need less workers if we leave.

All thatís really left is a misconception that weíre ruled by Brussels and a dislike of foreigners.

Posted by: Biker1 Jun 29 2018, 04:58 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 01:27 PM) *
Sorry, I didn't invent the terms Islamophobia, transphobia, homophobia, xenophobia and so on... laugh.gif

No, but many people, maybe including yourself, use them erroneously! tongue.gif
Not liking or agreeing with something is not an irrational fear! rolleyes.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 29 2018, 06:10 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 05:20 AM) *
However the Brexit leaderís view on business is ďF U C K businessĒ. Now I assume by ďbasket caseĒ you mean economically. Business is pretty much unanimously telling us that we will lose jobs if we donít stay in the single market. Itís kind of obvious really. In my opinion nothing is more important than us being economically sound as a nation because that means we can provide healthcare, security, welfare and so on. A notion of ďtaking back control ď is just a ďnotionĒ. There wonít even be less immigration as long as we need workers and the Syrian refugee crisis wonít be affected as we are an island and not in Schengen. Although obviously weíre gonna need less workers if we leave.

All thatís really left is a misconception that weíre ruled by Brussels and a dislike of foreigners.


Schengens on its last legs...most countries are just ignoring it now and Merkels position is weak. Macron has a lower approval rating than Trump and nationalist parties are on the rise. Seems like a good tine to leave....

Posted by: SirWilliam Jun 29 2018, 08:47 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 28 2018, 07:10 PM) *
Depends what you define as Sovereignty. We have a Sovereign and look at the huge powers she has laugh.gif

The EU made no bones about it, 'ever closer union' was and still is the ultimate aim. When that happens doubtless we'll have a ceremonial Westminister with as much power as the County of Berkshire!

We've always had workers from overseas, even before we joined the EU. Don't think very many thought we'd not need overseasj workers when we come out. That flys in the face of past history. For instance, an MP called Powell I think, arranged for large numbers to come to help run our Health service back in the 60s.


Interesting point as to whether protection of sovereignty means the continuation of a monarchy or maintaining a legislate independent of outside influence? When one looks at the last 2,000 years of European history it seems to be one of continual slaughter so any bringing together has to be of some benefit. The problem is that those human attributes that contributed to conflict are still prevalent and anyone who thinks we are immune from war is sadly deluded. A King/Queen will not prevent one anymore than a border post, but a "united" Europe is a formidable force in the face of adversity. On the other side of the pendulum is the collective proletariat who quite honestly don't give a Jean-Claude Juncker who is in charge providing they don't impose their will unduly, but the ugly face of nationalism will inevitably surface when they do, which in essence is what happened when Cameron in his infinite wisdom decided to test the status quo with a plebiscite of unparalleled naivety. It was not so much the EU that people objected to as the arrogant politicians on either side of the English Channel who, in escence, asked the electorate for a vote of confidence and got their answer.
Monarchy,sovereignty,independence are words banded around by those who would make mischief and it will be interesting to see where we are in 10 years.
Probably still sorting out brexit. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: dannyboy Jun 29 2018, 09:47 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 28 2018, 07:10 PM) *
We've always had workers from overseas, even before we joined the EU. Don't think very many thought we'd not need overseasj workers when we come out. That flys in the face of past history. For instance, an MP called Powell I think, arranged for large numbers to come to help run our Health service back in the 60s.



which makes TDH's comment about immigration being the main reason people voted to leave all the more ironic.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 29 2018, 11:23 AM

QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 29 2018, 10:47 AM) *
which makes TDH's comment about immigration being the main reason people voted to leave all the more ironic.


Yes, that's the sort of trouble you get into when mainstream politicians start trading misinformation and fake data. It means people with other agendas can manipulate the situation for their own ends. Happens all round. For instance Nigel Farage publicity about funding NHS condemned by the Chancellor only to be adopted 'now the time is right' as official policy!

I've just been talking to people in the UKs rust belt in the Midlands. Looking forward to a return of manufacture, foodstuffs drinks et all in the UK, rather than being tanked from Holland or France. When asked who is going to work the factories as we haven't got enough labour, there was a simple answer. The secret is in the word controlled, the door isn't simply wide open, you just have to knock.

Certainly makes you think. Why aren't the bosses twittering about Brexit starting to think of investing in the UK for once?

Posted by: newres Jun 29 2018, 01:01 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 29 2018, 12:23 PM) *
Yes, that's the sort of trouble you get into when mainstream politicians start trading misinformation and fake data. It means people with other agendas can manipulate the situation for their own ends. Happens all round. For instance Nigel Farage publicity about funding NHS condemned by the Chancellor only to be adopted 'now the time is right' as official policy!

I've just been talking to people in the UKs rust belt in the Midlands. Looking forward to a return of manufacture, foodstuffs drinks et all in the UK, rather than being tanked from Holland or France. When asked who is going to work the factories as we haven't got enough labour, there was a simple answer. The secret is in the word controlled, the door isn't simply wide open, you just have to knock.

Certainly makes you think. Why aren't the bosses twittering about Brexit starting to think of investing in the UK for once?

Because they want to be able to trade tariff free into Europe perchance?

Posted by: On the edge Jun 29 2018, 01:04 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 29 2018, 09:47 AM) *
Interesting point as to whether protection of sovereignty means the continuation of a monarchy or maintaining a legislate independent of outside influence? When one looks at the last 2,000 years of European history it seems to be one of continual slaughter so any bringing together has to be of some benefit. The problem is that those human attributes that contributed to conflict are still prevalent and anyone who thinks we are immune from war is sadly deluded. A King/Queen will not prevent one anymore than a border post, but a "united" Europe is a formidable force in the face of adversity. On the other side of the pendulum is the collective proletariat who quite honestly don't give a Jean-Claude Juncker who is in charge providing they don't impose their will unduly, but the ugly face of nationalism will inevitably surface when they do, which in essence is what happened when Cameron in his infinite wisdom decided to test the status quo with a plebiscite of unparalleled naivety. It was not so much the EU that people objected to as the arrogant politicians on either side of the English Channel who, in escence, asked the electorate for a vote of confidence and got their answer.
Monarchy,sovereignty,independence are words banded around by those who would make mischief and it will be interesting to see where we are in 10 years.
Probably still sorting out brexit. rolleyes.gif


I'm far from convinced that the 'collective proletariat' don't care who rules. Indeed, even recently there has been some murmuring about the return of the White Horse to a traditional Berkshire. Then, there are the nationalist movements which are pretty sizeable in Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. Plus we have the Cornish half joking about their nation. The English seem to like it too, hence hanging on to illogical Counties which don't exist and the romantic attachment to Royalty - in spite of Rupert Murdoch's best endeavours. The only reason overt displays if 'Englishness' are derided is because it's emblem and flag have been adopted by extreme right wing supporters, who by their own admission, were groomed out of thuggish commercial footballing support. Try telling a Cbannel Islander or a Manxman, it doesn't matter who governs him!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 29 2018, 02:19 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 02:01 PM) *
Because they want to be able to trade tariff free into Europe perchance?

Not all traders biggest matket is the EU. The way you bang on anyone would think we export to them more than we import. Its a two way street. I dont think German car manufactuters are going to be keen on punishing us. You really are Mr project fear. Anyways we are out. No turning back. 👍☀😂🍻🍺🍸

Posted by: dannyboy Jun 29 2018, 02:42 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03:19 PM) *
Not all traders biggest matket is the EU. The way you bang on anyone would think we export to them more than we import. Its a two way street. I dont think German car manufactuters are going to be keen on punishing us. You really are Mr project fear. Anyways we are out. No turning back. 👍☀😂🍻🍺🍸



85% of cars made in the UK go abroad. When that stops the Germans will be busy taking up the slack.

Posted by: dannyboy Jun 29 2018, 02:44 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 29 2018, 12:23 PM) *
Yes, that's the sort of trouble you get into when mainstream politicians start trading misinformation and fake data. It means people with other agendas can manipulate the situation for their own ends. Happens all round. For instance Nigel Farage publicity about funding NHS condemned by the Chancellor only to be adopted 'now the time is right' as official policy!

I've just been talking to people in the UKs rust belt in the Midlands. Looking forward to a return of manufacture, foodstuffs drinks et all in the UK, rather than being tanked from Holland or France. When asked who is going to work the factories as we haven't got enough labour, there was a simple answer. The secret is in the word controlled, the door isn't simply wide open, you just have to knock.

Certainly makes you think. Why aren't the bosses twittering about Brexit starting to think of investing in the UK for once?



Personally I prefer French wine...Cote Du Walsall & Pays de Kidderminster? No thanks...

Posted by: On the edge Jun 29 2018, 02:45 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03:19 PM) *
Not all traders biggest matket is the EU. The way you bang on anyone would think we export to them more than we import. Its a two way street. I dont think German car manufactuters are going to be keen on punishing us. You really are Mr project fear. Anyways we are out. No turning back. ��☀��������


We really ought to be promoting UK business; particularly manufacturing.

No reason why we shouldn't see HP sauce, confectionery, dairy products, beer etc.etc.etc. produced here. Just how much diesel fuel that would save. Apparently the Irish are getting a tad worried that their lorry route to our east coast ports is at risk.

Some big sea carriers have been constructed, so far less 'cross UK' lorry movements; good news for our emissions targets.

Then Mr Trump is apparently threatening Harley Davidson with some massive taxes because it's been slagging him off about his imposition of tariffs against the EU. Bring it on, let's hear it for Triumph; still going strong.

Talking of bikes, anyone heard of a couple of lightweight machines - MUTT? 125cc and 250cc imported engines, but put together in English frames in Brum!

We'll get there if only we stop trying to go back to the past - the EU is now in terminal decline.

Posted by: newres Jun 29 2018, 02:48 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03:19 PM) *
Not all traders biggest matket is the EU. The way you bang on anyone would think we export to them more than we import. Its a two way street. I dont think German car manufactuters are going to be keen on punishing us. You really are Mr project fear. Anyways we are out. No turning back. 👍☀😂🍻🍺🍸

No, but whereís the advantage for those that trade outside of Europe? They face just as much uncertainty as those that trade into Europe. There just is no upside economically. We are hardly going to be able to gain better trading deals on our own than we did as part of the largest trading bloc on the planet. If you can actually state one benefit from day one to our economy then Iím all ears.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 29 2018, 02:52 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 29 2018, 03:45 PM) *
We really ought to be promoting UK business; particularly manufacturing.

No reason why we shouldn't see HP sauce, confectionery, dairy products, beer etc.etc.etc. produced here. Just how much diesel fuel that would save. Apparently the Irish are getting a tad worried that their lorry route to our east coast ports is at risk.

Some big sea carriers have been constructed, so far less 'cross UK' lorry movements; good news for our emissions targets.

Then Mr Trump is apparently threatening Harley Davidson with some massive taxes because it's been slagging him off about his imposition of tariffs against the EU. Bring it on, let's hear it for Triumph; still going strong.

Talking of bikes, anyone heard of a couple of lightweight machines - MUTT? 125cc and 250cc imported engines, but put together in English frames in Brum!

We'll get there if only we stop trying to go back to the past - the EU is now in terminal decline.


To a lot in here the EU is some sort of deity rather than a corrupt unaudited bloated parady of the original common market that we joined. It just needs a reset and us leaving may precipitate that. I think it has already started a conversation amongst the other EU stalwarts. Being anti EU is not being xenophobic or anti Europe.

Posted by: newres Jun 29 2018, 03:25 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03:52 PM) *
Being anti EU is not being xenophobic or anti Europe.

True, but every xenophobe IS anti EU. And it's rare during online "debates" that those that are anti-EU don't bring immigration into it. Immigration levels will only change if job levels change.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 29 2018, 06:19 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 04:25 PM) *
True, but every xenophobe IS anti EU. And it's rare during online "debates" that those that are anti-EU don't bring immigration into it. Immigration levels will only change if job levels change.

And every liberal wants open borders as long as they dont have to put immigrants up in there own homes. Talk the talk. Walk the walk.

Posted by: newres Jun 29 2018, 06:22 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 07:19 PM) *
And every liberal wants open borders as long as they dont have to put immigrants up in there own homes. Talk the talk. Walk the walk.

But I wouldn't want you in my home either! Silly argument.

Posted by: dannyboy Jun 29 2018, 06:38 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 07:19 PM) *
And every liberal wants open borders as long as they dont have to put immigrants up in there own homes. Talk the talk. Walk the walk.



We had an Afghan refugee stay with us for 5 months. Nice lad.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 29 2018, 06:59 PM

QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 29 2018, 07:38 PM) *
We had an Afghan refugee stay with us for 5 months. Nice lad.

Good for you...How did that come about?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 29 2018, 07:01 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 07:22 PM) *
But I wouldn't want you in my home either! Silly argument.

No its not. If you feel that strongly about it and have spare rooms, you could easily help as it appears dannyboy has done.

Posted by: x2lls Jun 30 2018, 12:55 AM

QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 29 2018, 03:44 PM) *
Personally I prefer French wine...Cote Du Walsall & Pays de Kidderminster? No thanks...



Which implies you don't consider the quality, simply from where it doth ferment.
That's a great example of doing us down.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 30 2018, 02:33 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 08:01 PM) *
No its not. If you feel that strongly about it and have spare rooms, you could easily help as it appears dannyboy has done.

Yes it is because I wouldnít want any stranger in my home either; being an immigrant isnít the issue. Having said that, Iím not sure open boarders are a good idea. Road to **** paved with good intentions, etc.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 30 2018, 02:34 AM

Amused by this: https://youtu.be/EqGYGPEUbrI.

Posted by: newres Jun 30 2018, 05:23 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 30 2018, 03:33 AM) *
Yes it is because I wouldnít want any stranger in my home either; being an immigrant isnít the issue. Having said that, Iím not sure open boarders are a good idea. Road to **** paved with good intentions, etc.

And I donít think completely open borders are either. But then the UK has never had that and when I go to France I have to show my passport.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 30 2018, 05:55 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 30 2018, 03:33 AM) *
Yes it is because I wouldnít want any stranger in my home either; being an immigrant isnít the issue. Having said that, Iím not sure open boarders are a good idea. Road to **** paved with good intentions, etc.


Quite so, even if you are someone who likes casual visitors and invite them in, you don't leave the front door unlocked!

Posted by: dannyboy Jun 30 2018, 02:53 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 07:59 PM) *
Good for you...How did that come about?



We were asked if we'd house the lad after he was beaten up in Reading on more than one occasion. Social services thought Newbury would be better for him.

Posted by: dannyboy Jun 30 2018, 02:54 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 30 2018, 01:55 AM) *
Which implies you don't consider the quality, simply from where it doth ferment.
That's a great example of doing us down.



Have you tasted English wine?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 30 2018, 02:57 PM

QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 30 2018, 03:54 PM) *
Have you tasted English wine?

Quite. Won many awards recently and great vine weather at the moment. An upside to global warming... For once...

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 30 2018, 03:14 PM

QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 30 2018, 03:53 PM) *
We were asked if we'd house the lad after he was beaten up in Reading on more than one occasion. Social services thought Newbury would be better for him.

👍 Actions speak louder than words. Applause sir. Courage of your convictions. Others should take note.

Posted by: newres Jul 1 2018, 11:07 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 30 2018, 04:14 PM) *
👍 Actions speak louder than words. Applause sir. Courage of your convictions. Others should take note.

Prat.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 1 2018, 11:47 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jul 1 2018, 12:07 PM) *
Prat.

Eh! huh.gif

Posted by: newres Jul 1 2018, 12:18 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jul 1 2018, 12:47 PM) *
Eh! huh.gif

You donít think itís a prattish argument to say if you havenít personally taken in a refugee your opinion isnít valid?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 1 2018, 01:27 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jul 1 2018, 01:18 PM) *
You donít think itís a prattish argument to say if you havenít personally taken in a refugee your opinion isnít valid?

No. It shows some care and walk the walk and others like to pretend they care.😂You remind me of Lily Allen.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 1 2018, 03:58 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jul 1 2018, 01:18 PM) *
You donít think itís a prattish argument to say if you havenít personally taken in a refugee your opinion isnít valid?

Where are the refugees supposed to live? Detention centre? Hotel? Or perhaps you think they should be put at the top of the housing lists....If people that want mass immigration volunteered spare rooms I'd have more sympathy for these opinions. NIMBY.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 5 2018, 08:55 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jul 1 2018, 04:58 PM) *
Where are the refugees supposed to live? Detention centre? Hotel? Or perhaps you think they should be put at the top of the housing lists....If people that want mass immigration volunteered spare rooms I'd have more sympathy for these opinions. NIMBY.


Interesting point; but it's a departure from the traditional high Tory view of things. Dear old Norman Tebbitt got into to trouble for enunciating it in plain language. When he was out of work, Tebbitt senior got on his bike and looked for it. Good job his travels didn't bring him to this neck of the woods - response would have been 'unless someone puts you up, p1ss off back up North'!

Posted by: Strafin Jul 5 2018, 10:17 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jul 1 2018, 04:58 PM) *
Where are the refugees supposed to live? Detention centre? Hotel? Or perhaps you think they should be put at the top of the housing lists....If people that want mass immigration volunteered spare rooms I'd have more sympathy for these opinions. NIMBY.

Maybe those people didn't want to go and bomb the cr4p out them in the first place leaving them in need of a place to go!

Posted by: On the edge Jul 5 2018, 10:33 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jul 5 2018, 11:17 AM) *
Maybe those people didn't want to go and bomb the cr4p out them in the first place leaving them in need of a place to go!


Perhaps I'm getting old, but I seem to remember when we had hordes of young men from a poor foreign country making a short sea crossing, notionally to work on our motorways etc.etc.etc. All quite legit and legal back then. Seem to remember some of them wanted to and actually did bomb the cr4p out of us. Lest we forget.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 5 2018, 07:03 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jul 5 2018, 11:17 AM) *
Maybe those people didn't want to go and bomb the cr4p out them in the first place leaving them in need of a place to go!

You are talking about refugees. Thats a whole different kettle of fish. Most of the migrants are economic and not from war torn countries. But if they are young and brown or black a lot or people "choose" to see them as refugees. And it doesn't answer my question. Where are they supposed to live if the people that want this type of immigration dont actually want to help with accomodation. Perhaps we should have a "voluntary" income tax so that those that want to help can?

Posted by: dannyboy Jul 5 2018, 08:53 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jul 5 2018, 08:03 PM) *
You are talking about refugees. Thats a whole different kettle of fish. Most of the migrants are economic and not from war torn countries. But if they are young and brown or black a lot or people "choose" to see them as refugees. And it doesn't answer my question. Where are they supposed to live if the people that want this type of immigration dont actually want to help with accomodation. Perhaps we should have a "voluntary" income tax so that those that want to help can?



It doesn't matter what people 'choose' to see them as - the Govt is pretty strict & most immigrants are sent back. The lad we gave a roof to, once he passed his '18th' Birthday was on the first plane back to Kabul.

If a person can prove they will be in danger if sent back, they are granted refugee status. Danger is not simply living in a war torn country.

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