An electric car club for Newbury and Thatcham Options

[Sherlock]

Our car spends at least 95% of the time* sitting on our drive depreciating. I'd dearly love to get rid of it, and probably could, but there are two or three local trips every week that we need it for and the occasional longer drive for which it's not essential but which it's nice to have.

I'd very much like to be able to use an by the hour' electric car at least for the local trips and the occasional foray to Reading, Basingstoke and Oxford (all of which are well within the range of modern electric cars) and to rent a conventional vehicle for longer journeys and holidays.

Electric car clubs like this http://www.e-carclub.org/ are a possible way of achieving this but are currently only available in larger towns. I assume there's no obvious reason why they shouldn't also be viable in Newbury/Thatcham (combined population about 60,000) if sufficient numbers signed up. Or is there?

*update: it's actually driven for about 45 minutes in a typical week (ie one in which we don't travel to exotic Basingstoke , Reading etc) less than .5% of the 10080 available minutes.

[Biker1]

Trouble is that electric cars are currently expensive compared with an internal combustion equivalent.
The Nissan Leaf, for example, is over £16,000.
How about something like this!

[JeffG]

Trouble is that electric cars are currently expensive compared with an internal combustion equivalent.
The Nissan Leaf, for example, is over £16,000.

Expensive compared with what? That seems about the low end of the normal price range for cars. A Ford Fiesta is over £17,00 as is a low-end Nissan Qashqai with a 1.2l engine. (1.2? I'd have thought that was barely enough to get a Qashqai moving )

[On the edge]

Err lads, I think Sherlock might well have the answer to the cost issue. Do most of us really need to physically own our car. I'd certainly go with the rent it on demand concept. Done properly it would give us much more freedom, no maintenance, tax, capital depreciation etc. Of course, the secret is 'done properly', so there would need to be high availability, etc.

Good idea Sherlock!

[dannyboy]

Err lads, I think Sherlock might well have the answer to the cost issue. Do most of us really need to physically own our car. I'd certainly go with the rent it on demand concept. Done properly it would give us much more freedom, no maintenance, tax, capital depreciation etc. Of course, the secret is 'done properly', so there would need to be high availability, etc.

Good idea Sherlock!

I need to go to manchester next week - can I borrow your car?

[On the edge]

I need to go to manchester next week - can I borrow your car?

I'm not sure it would get you there, but yes, I don't have any issue with that. Do you ever hire vehicles on foreign holidays?

[dannyboy]

I'm not sure it would get you there, but yes, I don't have any issue with that. Do you ever hire vehicles on foreign holidays?

occasionally.

[MontyPython]

The problem comes down to cost - many people wanting this short term fix will want it at the same time (the weekend) - the weekday business market being for longer journeys and therefore fossil fuel vehicles.

I believe some hire car firms are doing cheaper weekend deals but at even £15 a day would it really save you much? It also wouldn't provide a great return for the hirer especially if you want the car delivered to your doorstep.

So whilst the principle may be sound the practicality probably isn't!

[On the edge]

Good points. It would very much depend on market dynamics. Take me, I'm not really interested in owning a car, and the one I have gets occasional use only. I much prefer to use alternatives locally, such as foot or bike. Distance wise, train isn't unacceptable. Now I can get it delivered, the 'weekly shop' isn't a car journey either. Perhaps this came from living too long in central London; where I could even hire a bike for short periods.

I can understand the reluctance of some; round here local public transport is frankly abysmal and local services are designed only for car drivers, so car ownership for many seems a necessity.

Nonetheless, for the market segment which includes me, a reasonably efficient hire scheme would be more than acceptable.

[Sherlock]

Thanks for all the thoughts, folks.

Obviously shared cars schemes don't have to be based on electric vehicles - here's a company which runs a similar scheme for conventional cars http://www.citycarclub.co.uk/ but again only offers vehicles for cities - I'm just attracted to the idea and it seems to me they're only really a possibility for most people at present with shared ownership.

There are clearly lots of practical problems - not least the fact that car share schemes of any kind don't appear to be viable in towns of the size of Newbury/Thatcham - but for those of us who are lucky enough not to have to use a car for work and who make few long distance car journeys it seems like a good solution.

(Incidentally, didn't the town council run a survey on car share schemes a while back? Maybe they were thinking of shared lifts to work.)

[Biker1]

Expensive compared with what?

Ford KA £8295.

[MontyPython]

Trouble is that electric cars are currently expensive compared with an internal combustion equivalent.
The Nissan Leaf, for example, is over £16,000.

Isn't "Battery Hire" an additional annual cost too? I am sure I have seen that on the "small print" on some of the TV Ads.

[motormad]

MP - Yup you're right I've seen that too..


I've done about 17k since May last year and I have cut my mileage down a lot since I got my GTI.

So no, electric cars are not suitable for me. I hate electric cars. They're a step back.

I couldn't think of a club I'd much rather less be a member of.

[Biker1]

I couldn't think of a club I'd much rather less be a member of.

Really?

[motormad]

I'd rather be a member of that.

[MontyPython]

So no, electric cars are not suitable for me. I hate electric cars. They're a step back.

They are not there yet! Hopefully one day they will be as I am for the principle of electric cars.

[Andy Capp]

Really?

Careful Biker1!

[Sherlock]

I hate electric cars. They're a step back.

Bizarre! Do you think he realises Top Gear isn't supposed to be taken seriously?

[motormad]

Bizarre! Do you think he realises Top Gear isn't supposed to be taken seriously?

Umm... no?


Currently I can drive as far as I want.
To refuel I pull into one of the thousands of stations, spend 10 minutes tops and be on my way.

I don't drive up to a fixed distance (average of about 70 miles across most electric cars) and then wait 12 hours before I've recharged to 80% and can go another 50.

F*** that. How is that progress?

Hydrogen fuel cell technology is the only current solution to the future of our vehicles and freedom of movement. It would emulate our current needs and requirements in terms of how we are able to maintain our freedom of movement.
It also has already been proven by Honda to be a working, usable and reliable alternative to the regular engines we have today. They can be made and adapted to work in existing vehicle platforms without much effort and in effect are electric vehicles except they create engine using hydrogen stored in a tank just like we use petrol and diesel in todays engines.


The only current issue is how to store hydrogen long term.
But the infrastructure for filling stations is already there (we have them in the form of the petrol stations we use today) and we are not that far off storing hydrogen.

Battery powered vehicles are ultimately old technology, it's expensive and batteries are toxic, heavy and not easily disposed of. Find out what Cadmium or Nickel does to the environment.

If you break down you are STUCK with no power, no ability to have hazard lights, no ability to charge your dead phone to call for help. Electric cars are not a TRUE solution long term, they're the bandwagon the Government and a few stupid vehicle manufacturers have jumped on to appease the morons who believe they are actually a good thing.

Anything battery powered is always sh*t, laptops, camcorders, phones, always dying when you need them most, always having batteries that don't hold charge, i can name at least 10 things in my house that i use regularly but currently have flat batteries. they're stupid, hateful things, maybe OK for an ipod not so great for a car.

If you think an electric car is good or is a step forward or "the future" then I'm only thankful you have no real say in the future of it as come the time that's one thing i will be campaigning for.

i can see the principle of electric cars.
one would be great for me to get to and from work, 2 miles that i average 18mpg at.
but two problems

1) burning petrol makes me feel happy.
2) knowing that the summers will be nicer for my children thanks to my turbocharger.
3) all electric cars are hideous to look at and numbing to drive and to me a car enthusiast do absolutely nothing for me. (the Tesla is cool but again it has a stupidly short range and long recharge time)
4) they are also really expensive to buy and maintain, it costs more than it does to keep a really expensive massage therapist on retainer.
(i would rather spend the money on the massage girl personally)


if you don't use your car and find it "sits on the driveway depreciating" then sell it and buy a bus pass. or buy a car more suited to your needs.
bus passes must appreciate in value because often you pay for 5 days and you get 2 free. maybe you can park that pride and center of your driveway instead.

actions speak louder than words.

[On the edge]

At the moment, as you say, the electric car market is very immature. However it's developing. Battery / recharge is an issue right now, but again, there are solutions emerging. For instance, and yes like any other new technology, it would require investment, drop and swap may be a way of quickly 'refuelling' electric vehicles, even with today's battery types. In effect, simply drive in and the machine extracts your old battery, pushes in the new and the control software calculates the energy difference you pay for. As it's not inflammable fuels, this could probably be done automatically.

Hydrogen may well play a very big part as a prime mover. Particularly as its extraction could offer a useful load to help balance electricity supply demand/production intermittancy. Again, the market is immature, and is taking some time to develop.

As for design, yes, I think electric cars don't always look good. There are exceptions, for instance a BMW electric motorbike looks quite acceptable! But then, it's a matter of taste, I think most modern cars are bland and uninspiring - difficult to tell one from the other. An easier one to fix, after all the 'look' is simply the shape, so in reality a marketing issue.

There's also nothing wrong with being an internal combustion engine lover. Arguably, there will be a fair few and the next generation of steam engine enthusiasts. You'll know you are there when a small group of them get together to build a Triumph Herald from scratch, just to see if it can still be done!

It just means you are getting older MM!