IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Greenham Parish Council
Simon Kirby
post Jun 4 2014, 07:03 PM
Post #1


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,326
Joined: 20-July 10
From: Wash Common
Member No.: 1,011



On NewburyToday, news about a new visitor centre for the old Greenham Control Tower, a very big project for the relatively tiny Greenham Parish Council with questionable benefit to parishioners. So I had a bit of a look, and councillor attendance over the last year has been really rather poor. OK, there will inevitably be the odd absence, and sometimes quite a spell of absence if a councillor is unfortunate enough to be seriously unwell, but the average attendance across all councillors is something like two out of three meetings, and that's really pretty dismal. Arthur Johnson, who also sits on Newbury Town Council, managed to attend the last council meeting, but according to the minutes he'd missed the last five (with the minutes only recording apologies for one out of those five absences) and if that's true he'd have been disqualified from office if he hadn't turned up at the last one. At the December meeting there were so few of them in attendance that the meeting couldn't transact any business for an hour while they waited for someone else to turn up and create a quorum.

Lives change of course and people have competing priorities, but I just wonder that some of the Greenham councillors might be better standing down if they're struggling to find the time or commitment.


--------------------
Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cognosco
post Jun 7 2014, 09:00 AM
Post #2


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,452
Joined: 31-October 10
Member No.: 1,212



QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 4 2014, 08:03 PM) *
On NewburyToday, news about a new visitor centre for the old Greenham Control Tower, a very big project for the relatively tiny Greenham Parish Council with questionable benefit to parishioners. So I had a bit of a look, and councillor attendance over the last year has been really rather poor. OK, there will inevitably be the odd absence, and sometimes quite a spell of absence if a councillor is unfortunate enough to be seriously unwell, but the average attendance across all councillors is something like two out of three meetings, and that's really pretty dismal. Arthur Johnson, who also sits on Newbury Town Council, managed to attend the last council meeting, but according to the minutes he'd missed the last five (with the minutes only recording apologies for one out of those five absences) and if that's true he'd have been disqualified from office if he hadn't turned up at the last one. At the December meeting there were so few of them in attendance that the meeting couldn't transact any business for an hour while they waited for someone else to turn up and create a quorum.

Lives change of course and people have competing priorities, but I just wonder that some of the Greenham councillors might be better standing down if they're struggling to find the time or commitment.


I think after the next election we won't have to worry too much! The LibLiars have lost nine deposits so far in recent elections so providing this carries on and includes the local elections we should be rid of the majority of this moribund let eh? cool.gif

Worry is who will we get at replacements? unsure.gif


--------------------
Vexatious Candidate?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blackdog
post Jun 7 2014, 10:05 AM
Post #3


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,945
Joined: 5-June 09
Member No.: 130



QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 7 2014, 10:00 AM) *
I think after the next election we won't have to worry too much! The LibLiars have lost nine deposits so far in recent elections so providing this carries on and includes the local elections we should be rid of the majority of this moribund let eh? cool.gif

Worry is who will we get at replacements? unsure.gif

Most parishes have trouble finding enough people to stand, Greenham may be an exception, but I don't suppose there will be a huge contest.

The next local elections will be interesting - assuming UKIP field candidates. Otherwise it will be another Tory walkover at WBC and they should take control in Newbury (as they would have done last time if they'd fielded another candidate in St John's). But UKIP could hand the Lib Dems a lifeline. Since RG lost interest Labour have subsided into their customary soporific presence in West Berks, which also helps the Lib Dems - leaving their chances totally dependent on just how upset their traditional voters are at them for inflicting Tory government on the country.

If anyone wants to be a Newbury town councillor and doesn't care which party they represent I'd recommend joining the Conservatives - they couldn't find enough candidates last time, so it should be easier to get to stand for them than the Lib Dems, who seem to have more would-be councillors than the Tories.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Simon Kirby
post Jun 7 2014, 03:36 PM
Post #4


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,326
Joined: 20-July 10
From: Wash Common
Member No.: 1,011



QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 7 2014, 10:00 AM) *
I think after the next election we won't have to worry too much! The LibLiars have lost nine deposits so far in recent elections so providing this carries on and includes the local elections we should be rid of the majority of this moribund let eh? cool.gif

Worry is who will we get at replacements? unsure.gif

Not exactly on-topic, but I'd be interested to know quite why you find the Lib Dems so hateful. I'm particularly interested to understand if it's national failings, or local ones, and whether you find the Tories equally hateful, or less so, and whether you make any distinction between parish or district.


--------------------
Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cognosco
post Jun 7 2014, 04:04 PM
Post #5


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,452
Joined: 31-October 10
Member No.: 1,212



QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 7 2014, 04:36 PM) *
Not exactly on-topic, but I'd be interested to know quite why you find the Lib Dems so hateful. I'm particularly interested to understand if it's national failings, or local ones, and whether you find the Tories equally hateful, or less so, and whether you make any distinction between parish or district.


I think it is both,national and local, like most politicians it would seem they will say and do whatever for a taste of the power. Why produce manifesto's when they have no intent of even trying to implement them? Regarding national. Yes I know they say they were in an exceptional circumstance but to just chuck away all that was promised for the chance of the droppings off the Tory high table was just too much for most I believe. As for local well I just refer you to the Forum posts over the last few years, to say you were not their most fervent supporter would be a slight underestimation, and for you to declare hope to change them from within is is like saying you are going to destroy Japanese knot weed by doing a bit of pruning. The only way to make changes is to have a complete clear out of the old guard, not only LibLiars but Tory as well. The country is crying out for change but there is no one listening is there, both nationally and locally, as I have stated before it's the same as the financial crisis, the NHS crisis, the looming pensions crisis, no one is prepared to even talk about it sensibly. All you get is tut tut this will not do then it's back to the same old ways as usual!
Just wish I was clever enough to know how to solve the problem! rolleyes.gif

I do however agree that it needs more ordinary people to get involved in politics, not by joining one of the three main parties mind as I think that is just propping up failed systems, but by querying and asking why it has to be this or that way and auditing what both national and local are doing?
In other words trying to be vexatious perhaps? rolleyes.gif


--------------------
Vexatious Candidate?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Simon Kirby
post Jun 7 2014, 04:36 PM
Post #6


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,326
Joined: 20-July 10
From: Wash Common
Member No.: 1,011



QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 7 2014, 05:04 PM) *
I think it is both,national and local, like most politicians it would seem they will say and do whatever for a taste of the power. Why produce manifesto's when they have no intent of even trying to implement them? Regarding national. Yes I know they say they were in an exceptional circumstance but to just chuck away all that was promised for the chance of the droppings off the Tory high table was just too much for most I believe. As for local well I just refer you to the Forum posts over the last few years, to say you were not their most fervent supporter would be a slight underestimation, and for you to declare hope to change them from within is is like saying you are going to destroy Japanese knot weed by doing a bit of pruning. The only way to make changes is to have a complete clear out of the old guard, not only LibLiars but Tory as well. The country is crying out for change but there is no one listening is there, both nationally and locally, as I have stated before it's the same as the financial crisis, the NHS crisis, the looming pensions crisis, no one is prepared to even talk about it sensibly. All you get is tut tut this will not do then it's back to the same old ways as usual!
Just wish I was clever enough to know how to solve the problem! rolleyes.gif

I do however agree that it needs more ordinary people to get involved in politics, not by joining one of the three main parties mind as I think that is just propping up failed systems, but by querying and asking why it has to be this or that way and auditing what both national and local are doing?
In other words trying to be vexatious perhaps? rolleyes.gif

What would good look like in local politics? I have some very clear ideas of that myself which I have tried to articulate here, but I'd like to know specifically what others think. My feeling is that other than a handful there's almost no one who has any interest or any idea how their local politics is failing them, and crucially, I don't think the local politicians themselves would recognise that they are failing us.

Someone needs to tell them in a way they can understand, and for me it's that failure to engage with that criticism that is the heart of the problem here, but it's the nature of the thing that the only people taking an interest and being vocal in their criticism are, if you'll forgive me, either embittered, or nut cases, or embittered nut cases - that's how it looks to our politicians anyways.


--------------------
Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cognosco
post Jun 7 2014, 04:43 PM
Post #7


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,452
Joined: 31-October 10
Member No.: 1,212



QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 7 2014, 05:36 PM) *
What would good look like in local politics? I have some very clear ideas of that myself which I have tried to articulate here, but I'd like to know specifically what others think. My feeling is that other than a handful there's almost no one who has any interest or any idea how their local politics is failing them, and crucially, I don't think the local politicians themselves would recognise that they are failing us.

Someone needs to tell them in a way they can understand, and for me it's that failure to engage with that criticism that is the heart of the problem here, but it's the nature of the thing that the only people taking an interest and being vocal in their criticism are, if you'll forgive me, either embittered, or nut cases, or embittered nut cases - that's how it looks to our politicians anyways.


So are you really going to ask the local electorate to vote for an embittered nut case? rolleyes.gif


--------------------
Vexatious Candidate?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Simon Kirby
post Jun 7 2014, 05:07 PM
Post #8


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,326
Joined: 20-July 10
From: Wash Common
Member No.: 1,011



QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 7 2014, 05:43 PM) *
So are you really going to ask the local electorate to vote for an embittered nut case? rolleyes.gif

There's your problem.

My personal politics is very close to Lib Dems values, and Lib Dem values do not include the kind of local government we have, so I figure my best approach is to join the local Lib Dems and live the values.

If you have a better way of cracking the nut, then crack-on, but I'd be pleased to have your support.


--------------------
Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cognosco
post Jun 7 2014, 05:16 PM
Post #9


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,452
Joined: 31-October 10
Member No.: 1,212



QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 7 2014, 06:07 PM) *
There's your problem.

My personal politics is very close to Lib Dems values, and Lib Dem values do not include the kind of local government we have, so I figure my best approach is to join the local Lib Dems and live the values.

If you have a better way of cracking the nut, then crack-on, but I'd be pleased to have your support.


But just what is Lib Dem values at the moment??? Lib Dems will only have the values that the majority party has after no outright winner surely? rolleyes.gif


--------------------
Vexatious Candidate?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Simon Kirby
post Jun 7 2014, 05:36 PM
Post #10


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,326
Joined: 20-July 10
From: Wash Common
Member No.: 1,011



QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 7 2014, 06:16 PM) *
But just what is Lib Dem values at the moment??? Lib Dems will only have the values that the majority party has after no outright winner surely? rolleyes.gif

I'm not looking at it like that. I want a political platform for my values, and I should hope it's plain now that I believe in honest, open and accountable local politics that respects and supports civil rights, empowers communities in all their colour and diversity, delivers value for money, is open to criticism and confident enough to challenge the establishment and make mistakes, and eschews pomp and anything else that gets in the way of delivering those values.

That's not what we currently have and I'm not for a minute suggesting that it is, but it is Liberal Democracy and I hope to find some support for that agenda in the local party.

Of course, you could always vote Tory if you prefer.


--------------------
Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Turin Machine
post Jun 7 2014, 05:47 PM
Post #11


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,676
Joined: 23-September 10
From: In the lower 40
Member No.: 1,104



Or be a swivel eyed loon? "Come in, the waters lovely"!


--------------------
Gammon. And proud!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Simon Kirby
post Jun 7 2014, 06:00 PM
Post #12


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,326
Joined: 20-July 10
From: Wash Common
Member No.: 1,011



QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 7 2014, 06:47 PM) *
Or be a swivel eyed loon? "Come in, the waters lovely"!

Seriously, you want me? I'm a bleeding-heart liberal, I can't see my politics having much of a home in UKIP.


--------------------
Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NWNREADER
post Jun 7 2014, 08:03 PM
Post #13


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 3,414
Joined: 20-November 10
Member No.: 1,265



Simon...

Pardon my cynicism but with your 'history' (justified or not) I have a feeling your chances of being allowed to join the Liberal Democrats, let alone getting selected to run for any elected role in the immediate future would be slightly less than mine. (Me having no intention of joining any party and thereby losing the right to free speech.)

Delighted to be proven wrong
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Simon Kirby
post Jun 7 2014, 09:33 PM
Post #14


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,326
Joined: 20-July 10
From: Wash Common
Member No.: 1,011



QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jun 7 2014, 09:03 PM) *
Simon...

Pardon my cynicism but with your 'history' (justified or not) I have a feeling your chances of being allowed to join the Liberal Democrats, let alone getting selected to run for any elected role in the immediate future would be slightly less than mine. (Me having no intention of joining any party and thereby losing the right to free speech.)

Delighted to be proven wrong

The values of Liberal Democracy are good for people. People want to be free to engage with local politics, they want honesty and openness in their politicians and administration and are thoroughly fed up with the arrogance and unaccountability that they see all the time in their politicians, they are frustrated with being fobbed-off by petty jobsworth administrators, they want their local politics to serve and respect them and defend their rights, and they want to be involved in their vibrant distinct communities and responsible for themselves.

Those are basic human values, and if the party hasn't already chosen to live those values then the electorate is going to kick it to death in the elections and it won't matter a jot if I'm a member or not.


--------------------
Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Turin Machine
post Jun 7 2014, 11:51 PM
Post #15


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,676
Joined: 23-September 10
From: In the lower 40
Member No.: 1,104



Never know, might get lucky, after all the lib dems did manage to poll more votes than the monster raving loony party at Newark.


--------------------
Gammon. And proud!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NWNREADER
post Jun 8 2014, 09:26 AM
Post #16


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 3,414
Joined: 20-November 10
Member No.: 1,265



QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 7 2014, 10:33 PM) *
The values of Liberal Democracy are good for people. People want to be free to engage with local politics, they want honesty and openness in their politicians and administration and are thoroughly fed up with the arrogance and unaccountability that they see all the time in their politicians, they are frustrated with being fobbed-off by petty jobsworth administrators, they want their local politics to serve and respect them and defend their rights, and they want to be involved in their vibrant distinct communities and responsible for themselves.

Those are basic human values, and if the party hasn't already chosen to live those values then the electorate is going to kick it to death in the elections and it won't matter a jot if I'm a member or not.


I do not disagree with you, but nearly every one of those 'wants' is something you have highlighted as absent from the local LibDeb administrators.....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Turin Machine
post Jun 8 2014, 09:58 AM
Post #17


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,676
Joined: 23-September 10
From: In the lower 40
Member No.: 1,104



So maybe he can change that? Would be worth doing if it was achievable. My fear is that we would end up with an animal farm scenario.


--------------------
Gammon. And proud!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andy Capp
post Jun 8 2014, 10:43 AM
Post #18


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 11,902
Joined: 3-September 09
Member No.: 317



Simon, what values do Lib Dems have that the Tories don't?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Exhausted
post Jun 8 2014, 11:00 AM
Post #19


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,722
Joined: 4-September 09
Member No.: 320



QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 8 2014, 11:43 AM) *
Simon, what values do Lib Dems have that the Tories don't?


This is where it all goes wrong in local politics. What the Newbury LibDems or the Newbury Conservatives should be applying to their local parish council efforts is not what do my mates want me to do but what should I be doing for Newbury and how can I get my personal message across to the electorate without the ridiculous name tag and not asking which crappy local party I should join so that I can get my feet under the table.

I believe it might be fair for prospective candidates to declare what their politics are about but why do we need this party division at that level. A good example of the way it hinders is to just look at the recent playground bickering over who should be mayor.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blackdog
post Jun 8 2014, 12:24 PM
Post #20


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,945
Joined: 5-June 09
Member No.: 130



QUOTE (Exhausted @ Jun 8 2014, 12:00 PM) *
... why do we need this party division at that level. ...


We don't - but that doesn't get rid of it. Over the years political parties have played the system and established themselves - there is no way to overturn this unless the electorate can be persuaded to vote them out - I can see little chance of this ever happening.

So the only practical, short term, method of implementing change in the way Newbury is run is from inside one of the parties.


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th January 2022 - 08:53 PM