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> Who owns West Berkshire?, 30 Landowners account for some 44%
gel
post Oct 4 2018, 10:03 AM
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Not a new article, but interesting never the less.
Mr Benyon at the top; there's a surprise.
https://whoownsengland.org/2017/04/17/the-t...-half-a-county/
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spartacus
post Oct 6 2018, 01:52 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 5 2018, 08:59 AM) *
Given the fact that white people invaded, stole the land, then subjugated and enslaved the indigenous population, it doesn’t seem unreasonable to take the land back. As long as it isn’t violently (unless necessary) and whatever the consequences for production. It se m ironic that rabid Brexiteers would not see this. You couldn’t make it up.
...except the 'enslaved and subjugated' bit wasn't entirely a white preserve. The Bantu tribes were invading, slaughtering and enslaving the Hottentots, Khoi & San people (bushmen) for centuries before the European settlers turned up.

The Voortrekkers (Dutch settlers) were generally pretty religious and along with British missionaries gave aid and medicine to local tribes people while they got down to converting the heathen rather than killing them.and converting the virgin bush to fertile farmland

The pattern for the nomadic tribes on the other hand was that they were constantly warring with each other, raiding for cattle & slaves. Around each tribal village there would be a network of small gardens where basic grain & vegetables were grown, but after a number of years most villages would have exhausted the game in the area and taken all the goodness from the soil in the gardens, polluted water souces and would be forced to find & move to another site. That was the pattern of Sub Saharan African life for millennia.

Certain tribes like the Zulu in SA, the Matabele in S. Rhodesia & the Lozi in N. Rhodesia, under strong leadership, became dominant in their areas and ruled huge areas of land extracting tribute from other tribes in exchange for not attacking/killing/enslaving them, if they were lucky.

The population density was minute so vast areas of land appeared to be uninhabited. Often local chiefs would sell/give permission for Europeans to settle land in exchange for trinkets such as cloth, beads, steel knives & occasionally old muskets. This was scrubland and virgin bush that was changed to fertile land over time by a combination of crop rotation, fertilisation, irrigation and hard work.

A century or more later these areas of fertile farms and vineyards are now being viewed with jealous eyes. Is there a need to take these farms back by force? There's plenty of scrubland and virgin bush left which could instead be converted just like these farms were. Two problems with that line of thought are that those huge swathes of unused and undeveloped land are owned by the ANC and that it would involve hard graft. It's easier to nick what's already working to wipe your **** with it.
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newres
post Oct 6 2018, 04:05 AM
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QUOTE (spartacus @ Oct 6 2018, 02:52 AM) *
...except the 'enslaved and subjugated' bit wasn't entirely a white preserve. The Bantu tribes were invading, slaughtering and enslaving the Hottentots, Khoi & San people (bushmen) for centuries before the European settlers turned up.

The Voortrekkers (Dutch settlers) were generally pretty religious and along with British missionaries gave aid and medicine to local tribes people while they got down to converting the heathen rather than killing them.and converting the virgin bush to fertile farmland

The pattern for the nomadic tribes on the other hand was that they were constantly warring with each other, raiding for cattle & slaves. Around each tribal village there would be a network of small gardens where basic grain & vegetables were grown, but after a number of years most villages would have exhausted the game in the area and taken all the goodness from the soil in the gardens, polluted water souces and would be forced to find & move to another site. That was the pattern of Sub Saharan African life for millennia.

Certain tribes like the Zulu in SA, the Matabele in S. Rhodesia & the Lozi in N. Rhodesia, under strong leadership, became dominant in their areas and ruled huge areas of land extracting tribute from other tribes in exchange for not attacking/killing/enslaving them, if they were lucky.

The population density was minute so vast areas of land appeared to be uninhabited. Often local chiefs would sell/give permission for Europeans to settle land in exchange for trinkets such as cloth, beads, steel knives & occasionally old muskets. This was scrubland and virgin bush that was changed to fertile land over time by a combination of crop rotation, fertilisation, irrigation and hard work.

A century or more later these areas of fertile farms and vineyards are now being viewed with jealous eyes. Is there a need to take these farms back by force? There's plenty of scrubland and virgin bush left which could instead be converted just like these farms were. Two problems with that line of thought are that those huge swathes of unused and undeveloped land are owned by the ANC and that it would involve hard graft. It's easier to nick what's already working to wipe your **** with it.

I freely admit I know virtually nothing about what’s going on and whilst I do have a good deal of sympathy for those being dispossessed, the fact of the matter is that whatever the politics involving the various tribes, I didn’t just imagine apartheid. It did happen until very recently. And many of those farmers I’m quite certain benefited from that system, so whilst I have some sympathy on an individual level, it doesn’t strike me as one of the greatest injustices. The greater surprise is the overall tolerance shown by the blacks to the whites following apartheid and that it didn’t happen sooner.

Anyway, I’ve never met a nice South African.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Oct 6 2018, 06:54 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 6 2018, 05:05 AM) *
I freely admit I know virtually nothing about what’s going on and whilst I do have a good deal of sympathy for those being dispossessed, the fact of the matter is that whatever the politics involving the various tribes, I didn’t just imagine apartheid. It did happen until very recently. And many of those farmers I’m quite certain benefited from that system, so whilst I have some sympathy on an individual level, it doesn’t strike me as one of the greatest injustices. The greater surprise is the overall tolerance shown by the blacks to the whites following apartheid and that it didn’t happen sooner.

Anyway, I’ve never met a nice South African.

You dont actually know much about anything.😂
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Posts in this topic
- gel   Who owns West Berkshire?   Oct 4 2018, 10:03 AM
- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (gel @ Oct 4 2018, 11:03 AM) Not a ...   Oct 4 2018, 12:11 PM
- - spartacus   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 4 2018, 01:11 PM)...   Oct 4 2018, 04:56 PM
|- - x2lls   QUOTE (spartacus @ Oct 4 2018, 05:56 PM) ...   Oct 4 2018, 05:20 PM
||- - newres   QUOTE (x2lls @ Oct 4 2018, 06:20 PM) They...   Oct 4 2018, 05:28 PM
||- - Strafin   QUOTE (x2lls @ Oct 4 2018, 06:20 PM) They...   Oct 5 2018, 10:11 AM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (spartacus @ Oct 4 2018, 05:56 PM) ...   Oct 4 2018, 07:49 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 4 2018, 08:49 PM)...   Oct 5 2018, 07:59 AM
|- - Strafin   QUOTE (newres @ Oct 5 2018, 08:59 AM) Giv...   Oct 5 2018, 10:11 AM
|- - je suis Charlie   QUOTE (newres @ Oct 5 2018, 08:59 AM) Giv...   Oct 5 2018, 01:03 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 5 2018, 02:0...   Oct 5 2018, 03:37 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 5 2018, 04...   Oct 5 2018, 05:34 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Oct 5 2018, 06:34 PM) The...   Oct 5 2018, 05:45 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 5 2018, 06...   Oct 5 2018, 06:02 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Oct 5 2018, 07:02 PM) I...   Oct 5 2018, 06:08 PM
- - spartacus   I have a close friend in RSA who owns a reasonably...   Oct 4 2018, 06:09 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (spartacus @ Oct 4 2018, 07:09 PM) ...   Oct 4 2018, 07:14 PM
|- - x2lls   QUOTE (spartacus @ Oct 4 2018, 07:09 PM) ...   Oct 5 2018, 07:50 PM
- - je suis Charlie   But there's an feeling that we need to give th...   Oct 4 2018, 11:46 PM
- - Strafin   I'll have long starved to death by the time th...   Oct 5 2018, 05:04 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (Strafin @ Oct 5 2018, 06:04 PM) I...   Oct 5 2018, 05:48 PM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 5 2018, 06...   Oct 5 2018, 06:18 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 5 2018, 07:18 PM)...   Oct 5 2018, 06:21 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 5 2018, 07...   Oct 5 2018, 06:24 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Oct 5 2018, 07:24 PM) At ...   Oct 5 2018, 06:30 PM
- - x2lls   Newres, no thanks. Strafin, no chance. When bein...   Oct 5 2018, 07:48 PM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (newres @ Oct 6 2018, 05:05 AM) I f...   Oct 6 2018, 08:22 AM
|- - x2lls   QUOTE (newres @ Oct 6 2018, 05:05 AM) I f...   Oct 6 2018, 08:54 AM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (x2lls @ Oct 6 2018, 09:54 AM) You ...   Oct 6 2018, 10:49 AM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 6 2018, 11...   Oct 6 2018, 12:16 PM
- - Mr Brown   Reggie Dyer was right; eh lads?   Oct 6 2018, 08:44 AM
- - newres   What a bunch of snowflakes.   Oct 6 2018, 12:50 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Oct 6 2018, 01:50 PM) Wha...   Oct 6 2018, 07:34 PM
|- - Biker1   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 6 2018, 08...   Oct 7 2018, 07:55 AM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (Biker1 @ Oct 7 2018, 08:55 AM) Don...   Oct 7 2018, 11:46 AM
|- - x2lls   QUOTE (Biker1 @ Oct 7 2018, 08:55 AM) Don...   Oct 7 2018, 01:06 PM
- - spartacus   QUOTE (newres @ Oct 6 2018, 05:05 AM) Any...   Oct 8 2018, 07:46 AM
|- - newres   QUOTE (spartacus @ Oct 8 2018, 08:46 AM) ...   Oct 11 2018, 07:55 AM
|- - je suis Charlie   QUOTE (newres @ Oct 11 2018, 08:55 AM) In...   Oct 11 2018, 05:05 PM
|- - x2lls   QUOTE (newres @ Oct 11 2018, 08:55 AM) In...   Oct 15 2018, 11:22 PM
- - Strafin   Spartacus certainly has shed a lot of light on som...   Oct 8 2018, 07:56 AM
- - The Hatter   QUOTE (Strafin @ Oct 8 2018, 08:56 AM) Sp...   Oct 10 2018, 08:30 PM


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