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Newbury Today Forum _ Random Rants _ Animals don't feel pain.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 21 2017, 08:29 PM

http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/20/mps-vote-that-animals-cant-feel-pain-or-emotion-as-part-of-brexit-bill-7093881/

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 21 2017, 08:53 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 21 2017, 08:29 PM) *
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/20/mps-vote-that-animals-cant-feel-pain-or-emotion-as-part-of-brexit-bill-7093881/

That's ok, next time you run one over cos your going too fast to stop in time it won't feel it. Good news then.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 21 2017, 08:55 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 21 2017, 08:53 PM) *
That's ok, next time you run one over cos your going too fast to stop in time it won't feel it. Good news then.

I'd be speeding up! tongue.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 21 2017, 08:57 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 21 2017, 08:55 PM) *
I'd be speeding up! tongue.gif

True to form then.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 21 2017, 09:03 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 21 2017, 08:57 PM) *
True to form then.

Well, it is reported that the Tories think animals feel no pain and have no sentience, but I guess it takes one to know one.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 21 2017, 09:08 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 21 2017, 09:03 PM) *
Well, it is reported that the Tories think animals feel no pain and have no sentience, but I guess it takes one to know one.

What? Tory? Yup! Right on! Not just the Tories though, was it.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 21 2017, 09:14 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 21 2017, 09:08 PM) *
What? Tory? Yup! Right on! Not just the Tories though, was it.

No, but mainly Tories though. At least we can now free ourselves of unnecessary EU red tape.

Posted by: Gazzadp Nov 21 2017, 09:24 PM

and suprise, surprise Richard Benyon voted in favour of that bill.

https://www.facebook.com/yesterdaysshadows/posts/894611370687185

But then he also voted against EVERY bill that would force Landlords to improve safety measures, new building regs etc.

So he also has some the ashes of those that died in Grenfell on his BLOOD soaked hands!

He is your a typical tory, as long as he is OK, then to **** with everybody else beneath....

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 21 2017, 09:27 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 21 2017, 09:14 PM) *
No, but mainly Tories though. At least we can now free ourselves of unnecessary EU red tape.

Onwards, always onwards! Free yourselves from the will sapping inertia of the unelected bureaucrats standing on the necks of honest working people! Forwards to victory!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 21 2017, 09:51 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 21 2017, 09:27 PM) *
Onwards, always onwards! Free yourselves from the will sapping inertia of the unelected bureaucrats standing on the necks of honest working people! Forwards to victory!


Yes! And once we are free of the tyranny of the EU we can import Lions and Giraffes and Wildebeest and all manner of big game. Then issue passes to Americans to shoot them. Loadsamoney. I gather Zimbabwe's looking for a new business opportunity.😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 21 2017, 10:09 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 21 2017, 09:51 PM) *
Yes! And once we are free of the tyranny of the EU we can import Lions and Giraffes and Wildebeest and all manner of big game. Then issue passes to Americans to shoot them. Loadsamoney. I gather Zimbabwe's looking for a new business opportunity.😂

I've been looking for something to put in the orchard! New business venture on the horizon. Good one, I can run it alongside the ahem! 'landlords negotiation service' that is proving so popular at the moment.

Posted by: blackdog Nov 22 2017, 01:26 AM

Animals certainly don't feel pain like we do - one of my dogs has a tooth abcess - looks like the sort of thing that would have me screaming. He shows no sign of noticing it is there.


Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 22 2017, 01:36 AM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Nov 22 2017, 01:26 AM) *
Animals certainly don't feel pain like we do - one of my dogs has a tooth abcess - looks like the sort of thing that would have me screaming. He shows no sign of noticing it is there.

Not feeling it like we do is not the same as not feeling it at all, just as a dog cannot be held as representitve of the entire animal kingdom.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 22 2017, 10:14 AM

The problem is that we , ( as a species ) , judge how the rest of the animal kingdom reacts to a situation by our own standards . The inference that other creatures do not feel pain is plain stupid as , if we take mammals as an example , we all have a similar nervous system . If a dog runs a thorn into it's foot it will lick it which allows the natural analgesic in the saliva to take effect ; if a human does the same they use their opposing thumb to good effect . The question is does an animal have the cognitive ability to understand why pain is present or does it accept it because it can not perceive it getting better ?
Everyone is damning the Government for not encompassing the EU directive on animal rights but remember this legislation was drawn up to protect the human element not the animal . It allowed the continuation of bull fighting , live transport across many borders and the ritual slaughter practice to name but a few . Yes we need our own laws to protect but a lot are already in place and I for one would like to see one which actually achieves it's objective .

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 22 2017, 07:11 PM

“In formulating and implementing the Union's agriculture, fisheries, transport, internal market, research and technological development and space policies, the Union and the Member States shall, since animals are sentient beings, pay full regard to the welfare requirements of animals, while respecting the legislative or administrative provisions and customs of the Member States relating in particular to religious rites, cultural traditions and regional heritage."

“That understanding has since informed more than 20 pieces of EU law on animal welfare, including the ban on sealskin imports, the ban on conventional battery cages and the ban on cosmetics testing on animals."

Posted by: Strafin Nov 22 2017, 07:29 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 21 2017, 09:08 PM) *
What? Tory? Yup! Right on! Not just the Tories though, was it.

Yes It was. Tories, DUP (outsourced tories) and 2 independents. The independents were elected as Tories but are currently suspended from the party.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 22 2017, 09:41 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Nov 22 2017, 07:29 PM) *
Yes It was. Tories, DUP (outsourced tories) and 2 independents. The independents were elected as Tories but are currently suspended from the party.

Fnarr!

Posted by: Jay Sands Nov 23 2017, 02:56 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 21 2017, 08:29 PM) *
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/20/mps-vote-that-animals-cant-feel-pain-or-emotion-as-part-of-brexit-bill-7093881/
- is fake news.

https://order-order.com/2017/11/23/viral-animal-sentience-fake-news-story-seen-by-2-million-people/


Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 23 2017, 03:36 PM

QUOTE (Jay Sands @ Nov 23 2017, 02:56 PM) *
- is fake news.

https://order-order.com/2017/11/23/viral-animal-sentience-fake-news-story-seen-by-2-million-people/

Thank you for that.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 23 2017, 03:37 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 21 2017, 08:29 PM) *
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/20/mps-vote-that-animals-cant-feel-pain-or-emotion-as-part-of-brexit-bill-7093881/

'Tard news.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 23 2017, 03:43 PM

QUOTE (Jay Sands @ Nov 23 2017, 02:56 PM) *
- is fake news.

https://order-order.com/2017/11/23/viral-animal-sentience-fake-news-story-seen-by-2-million-people/


When the "responsible" press is found wanting in it's reporting accuracy then we may as well give up . Maybe they concluded that the end justified the means or just guilty of a miss-placed syllable . Anyway the acid test will be when we have "finally" severed our umbilical cord with Brussels and can start to implement our own laws .

Posted by: dannyboy Nov 23 2017, 04:01 PM

QUOTE (Jay Sands @ Nov 23 2017, 02:56 PM) *
- is fake news.

https://order-order.com/2017/11/23/viral-animal-sentience-fake-news-story-seen-by-2-million-people/



err, no it isn't.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 23 2017, 05:00 PM

That law protects all animals that are ‘generally domesticated’ vertebrates, except for wild animals - which are covered under a different law.

Invertebrate animals are also covered by the law if the scientific consensus agrees that they can feel ‘pain and suffering’.

And the basis of the law is an acceptance that all of the above animals are able to experience suffering - and are therefore sentient.

Also, contrary to the petition’s text, the decision wasn’t taken by the government - it was a vote in parliament. And it doesn’t actually remove anything that has any practical effect in law.

The best argument being put forward by the Green Party and others is that including the statement that animals are sentient beings in law is a symbolic gesture.

It sends a message that we as a country are resolved that animals have the capacity to feel, and we protect them as such.

But in law, that’s mostly meaningless. It wouldn’t have any impact on how animal cruelty is prosecuted. And it’s possible it could introduce complications and philosophical arguments into legal actions in the future, which are neatly avoided by the Animal Welfare Act’s broad acceptance that all animals can feel suffering.

And to clarify the situation the guardian reports thus;

“The prime minister has made clear that we will strengthen our animal welfare rules,” he said in in a written statement to MPs. “This government will ensure that any necessary changes required to UK law are made in a rigorous and comprehensive way to ensure animal sentience is recognised after we leave the EU.

“The withdrawal bill is not the right place to address this; however, we are considering the right legislative vehicle.”

Gove also hinted that the UK could pursue tougher animal welfare rules after Brexit, including a ban on live animal exports and crackdown on puppy smuggling. He claimed EU rules currently prevented the government from imposing such restrictions.

So it was a storm in a Libtard teacup anyway.

Posted by: newres Nov 23 2017, 05:45 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 23 2017, 05:00 PM) *
That law protects all animals that are ‘generally domesticated’ vertebrates, except for wild animals - which are covered under a different law.

Invertebrate animals are also covered by the law if the scientific consensus agrees that they can feel ‘pain and suffering’.

And the basis of the law is an acceptance that all of the above animals are able to experience suffering - and are therefore sentient.

Also, contrary to the petition’s text, the decision wasn’t taken by the government - it was a vote in parliament. And it doesn’t actually remove anything that has any practical effect in law.

The best argument being put forward by the Green Party and others is that including the statement that animals are sentient beings in law is a symbolic gesture.

It sends a message that we as a country are resolved that animals have the capacity to feel, and we protect them as such.

But in law, that’s mostly meaningless. It wouldn’t have any impact on how animal cruelty is prosecuted. And it’s possible it could introduce complications and philosophical arguments into legal actions in the future, which are neatly avoided by the Animal Welfare Act’s broad acceptance that all animals can feel suffering.

And to clarify the situation the guardian reports thus;

“The prime minister has made clear that we will strengthen our animal welfare rules,” he said in in a written statement to MPs. “This government will ensure that any necessary changes required to UK law are made in a rigorous and comprehensive way to ensure animal sentience is recognised after we leave the EU.

“The withdrawal bill is not the right place to address this; however, we are considering the right legislative vehicle.”

Gove also hinted that the UK could pursue tougher animal welfare rules after Brexit, including a ban on live animal exports and crackdown on puppy smuggling. He claimed EU rules currently prevented the government from imposing such restrictions.

So it was a storm in a Libtard teacup anyway.

I think only an idiot would take something Gove hints at as a promise. This clearly demonstrates one of the strongest arguments for the EU. Protection from our own government.

The point is that by accepting in law that animal are sentient beings it means that all other laws have to be informed by that acceptance and no laws can be passed that ignore their suffering. It’s a governing principle therefore and not meaningless.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 23 2017, 05:56 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 23 2017, 05:45 PM) *
I think only an idiot would take something Gove hints at as a promise. This clearly demonstrates one of the strongest arguments for the EU. Protection from our own government.

The point is that by accepting in law that animal are sentient beings it means that all other laws have to be informed by that acceptance and no laws can be passed that ignore their suffering. It’s a governing principle therefore and not meaningless.

You either didn't read my post or, as seems more like, you didn't understand it.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 23 2017, 06:43 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 23 2017, 05:00 PM) *
That law protects all animals that are ‘generally domesticated’ vertebrates, except for wild animals - which are covered under a different law.

Invertebrate animals are also covered by the law if the scientific consensus agrees that they can feel ‘pain and suffering’.

And the basis of the law is an acceptance that all of the above animals are able to experience suffering - and are therefore sentient.

Also, contrary to the petition’s text, the decision wasn’t taken by the government - it was a vote in parliament. And it doesn’t actually remove anything that has any practical effect in law.

The best argument being put forward by the Green Party and others is that including the statement that animals are sentient beings in law is a symbolic gesture.

It sends a message that we as a country are resolved that animals have the capacity to feel, and we protect them as such.

But in law, that’s mostly meaningless. It wouldn’t have any impact on how animal cruelty is prosecuted. And it’s possible it could introduce complications and philosophical arguments into legal actions in the future, which are neatly avoided by the Animal Welfare Act’s broad acceptance that all animals can feel suffering.

And to clarify the situation the guardian reports thus;

“The prime minister has made clear that we will strengthen our animal welfare rules,” he said in in a written statement to MPs. “This government will ensure that any necessary changes required to UK law are made in a rigorous and comprehensive way to ensure animal sentience is recognised after we leave the EU.

“The withdrawal bill is not the right place to address this; however, we are considering the right legislative vehicle.”

Gove also hinted that the UK could pursue tougher animal welfare rules after Brexit, including a ban on live animal exports and crackdown on puppy smuggling. He claimed EU rules currently prevented the government from imposing such restrictions.

So it was a storm in a Libtard teacup anyway.

The headline is sensationalist, but not groundless. Stolen from the same 'left-wing' source as you:

"The Humane Society broadly welcomed Gove’s statement, but Director Claire Bass added: “Acknowledging that animals have the capacity to suffer and feel pain is absolutely fundamental to protecting them from harm, and we need a binding imperative enshrined in UK law that will hold government to account, ensuring that animal welfare is fully taken into account in all UK law and policy-making.

"We can’t afford for this guiding principle to be thrown out with the Brussels bathwater and so look forward to hearing the government’s legislative plans in the very near future.”

The RSPCA aren’t convinced at all, and insist the Animal Welfare Act only applies to ‘companion’ animals - pets. They’re issuing a statement later today.

And the Green Party are expected to move another amendment to the Brexit bill when it gets to the House of Lords.

Green Party leader Caroline Lucas said: "The Government's refusal to accept this amendment is simply absurd - and their continued insistence that sentience is covered in Animal Welfare legislation is wrong. Britain been forward thinking animal welfare over the years, which is why ditching this provision would be such a backwards step.

"The UK Government led on introducing this EU protocol in the first place, and it's only an obsession with refusing changes to the EU Withdrawal Bill that's stopping Ministers adopting this amendment now.

"The animal sentience protocol is important because it is an instruction to future governments when creating legislation - and it should be the basis of future lawmaking on animal welfare in Britain.""


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/no-mps-not-pass-vote-11572216

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 23 2017, 06:55 PM

And the basis of the law is an acceptance that all of the above animals are able to experience suffering - and are therefore sentient.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 23 2017, 07:36 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 23 2017, 06:55 PM) *
And the basis of the law is an acceptance that all of the above animals are able to experience suffering - and are therefore sentient.

The concern isn’t that there is no existing provision for sentient beings, it’s that existing legislation lacks scope.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 23 2017, 07:37 PM

In what way?

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 23 2017, 07:41 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 23 2017, 07:37 PM) *
In what way?

A concern it doesn’t cover all creatures that are sentient.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 23 2017, 07:43 PM

Which ones?

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 23 2017, 08:01 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 23 2017, 07:43 PM) *
Which ones?

I’ve been trying to find out, but it ia not clear. There isn’t a yes or no list. The 2006 act is somewhat vague.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 23 2017, 08:10 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 23 2017, 08:01 PM) *
I’ve been trying to find out, but it ia not clear. There isn’t a yes or no list. The 2006 act is somewhat vague.

Well, when you are clear, let me know.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 23 2017, 08:19 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 23 2017, 08:10 PM) *
Well, when you are clear, let me know.

I doubt that will happen as the act is not clear, unless you know better of course?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 23 2017, 09:31 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 23 2017, 08:19 PM) *
I doubt that will happen as the act is not clear, unless you know better of course?

So, you raised the topic, you say you have concerns but are unclear as to what they are and you want me to do your research. Interesting. Personally, the legislation is adequate and in place, what is lacking is the willingness to adequately police the existing legislation. I find amusing that the usual suspects are up in arms about this but seem quite at ease to allow animals to be hung from their hind legs and have their throats sliced open without any effort made to stun them. Cultrool differences innit.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 23 2017, 09:45 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 23 2017, 09:31 PM) *
So, you raised the topic, you say you have concerns but are unclear as to what they are and you want me to do your research. Interesting.

I reported that a large percentage of MPs voted to remove a section of legislation, which is true and clear.

I am concerned about the vote, but I am not alone in there. That is true and clear.

The lack of clarity is the problem. A vagueness that wouldn’t exist if the legislation had been left intact, it seems.

I did not ask you to do any research, but your line of questioning implied you ‘knew better’. I therefore asked if you did.

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 23 2017, 09:31 PM) *
Personally, the legislation is adequate and in place, what is lacking is the willingness to adequately police the existing legislation. I find amusing that the usual suspects are up in arms about this but seem quite at ease to allow animals to be hung from their hind legs and have their throats sliced open without any effort made to stun them.

Who are are you referring to?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 23 2017, 10:18 PM

The Government argued animals are already classed as sentient beings in existing legislation and that including the proposed clause in the EU Withdrawal Bill would lead to "legal uncertainty". Its a failure to recognise this fact for whatever reason that you are working on. I repeat, the legislation is in place and is strong enough. We have some of the most stringent animal protection law in the world while countries unlike countries like France who believe that drowning small songbirds in brandy somehow enhances the flavour, or Spain who throw donkeys off towers for 'religious' ceremonies or honk it great fun to put a bull against men armed with swords and Lance's or Italy where animals are raised in conditions that would horrify you. What about foie gras? I could go on, but the point is that the EU and it's members aren't leading lights in animal welfare.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 23 2017, 11:28 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 23 2017, 10:18 PM) *
The Government argued animals are already classed as sentient beings in existing legislation and that including the proposed clause in the EU Withdrawal Bill would lead to "legal uncertainty".

What is the uncertainty?

The Government said something, but other groups said otherwise.

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 23 2017, 10:18 PM) *
Its a failure to recognise this fact for whatever reason that you are working on.

I heard what the Government said, but I remain cynical of their motives.

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 23 2017, 10:18 PM) *
I repeat, the legislation is in place and is strong enough. We have some of the most stringent animal protection law in the world while countries unlike countries like France who believe that drowning small songbirds in brandy somehow enhances the flavour, or Spain who throw donkeys off towers for 'religious' ceremonies or honk it great fun to put a bull against men armed with swords and Lance's or Italy where animals are raised in conditions that would horrify you. What about foie gras? I could go on, but the point is that the EU and it's members aren't leading lights in animal welfare.

I would feel more pursuaded if animal welfare groups had agreed with the Government’s stance.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 23 2017, 11:45 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41281570

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 24 2017, 08:06 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 23 2017, 11:45 PM) *
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41281570

How is this relevant to the topic? This seems to be about the failure of the EU to police its laws, not whether we should adopt an EU law.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 24 2017, 11:08 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 24 2017, 08:06 AM) *
How is this relevant to the topic? This seems to be about the failure of the EU to police its laws, not whether we should adopt an EU law.


Exactly . One may argue that it is illegal to murder your neighbour but that doesn't prevent it happening . Unless we are prepared to police any legislation we introduce then what is the point of having it ? In order to actually prevent animal cruelty we need to have the will to prosecute all those who commit it . Then of course one man's perception of cruelty is different to the next . Which is worse , transporting a lamb 70 miles for over an hour in a cramped lorry to the slaughterhouse , or being strung up by it's hind leg and having it's throat cut in a process that make take only 2 minutes ? One may well argue that both cause unnecessary suffering but one is committed in the name of religious tolerance and the other because of our obsession with food "safety" . On the position of BSE , ( which lead to the closure of local abattoirs ) , this was a genuine case of politicians losing the plot . Quite happy to import meat from an "unregulated" European market but obsessed with forcing our own producers into an over regulated quagmire .
I doubt we will ever please all of the people but it would be nice to think that all interested parties can formulate a common consensus .

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 25 2017, 12:01 PM

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/animal-sentience-brexit-vote-caroline-lucas-michael-gove-truth-fact-argument-a8072071.html

So now it has been admitted by the Independent that their article was misleading and therefore inaccurate . We rely on the supposed "responsible dailys" to report the facts and leave the histrionics to the tabloids , but now we have the social media element that has no intention of letting accuracy stand in the way of a good story and I wonder how much professional journalism is being eroded by the availability of internet fodder ? On the other side of the fence we have a Parliament that is so out of touch with it's people that it didn't even cross it's diminutive minds that the great unwashed would be not a little upset by it's perceived stance .
Maybe Trump is not so far off his allegations of "fake news" hovering round every corner, but the only way to prevent us descending into a glorified free for all is for those who make the news to also ensure that their actions are completely transparent .

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 25 2017, 12:50 PM

From what I have read, the headlines were misleading - they often are - but the reporting of the argument was accurate. The government has failed to effectively explain why they didn’t support the motion. The proposers argue the current legislation is not empathic.

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 25 2017, 01:14 PM

And I see a whole bunch of luvvies now deleting tweets and apologizing.

Posted by: newres Nov 25 2017, 05:32 PM

The government voted against accepting EU legislation recognising animals are sentient beings. Where's the falsehood?

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 25 2017, 07:15 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 25 2017, 05:32 PM) *
The government voted against accepting EU legislation recognising animals are sentient beings. Where's the falsehood?

Exactly.

Posted by: x2lls Nov 28 2017, 02:42 PM

Here is a rather entertaining view of matters in hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vmh9oJ7G9c&feature=youtu.be

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 28 2017, 04:16 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Nov 28 2017, 02:42 PM) *
Here is a rather entertaining view of matters in hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vmh9oJ7G9c&feature=youtu.be

Hilarious! However, arguing with liberals is like trying to play chess with pigeons, they start by knocking all the pieces over, ****ting on the board and then strutting around like they've won something.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 28 2017, 04:23 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 28 2017, 04:16 PM) *
Hilarious! However, arguing with liberals is like trying to play chess with pigeons, they start by knocking all the pieces over, ****ting on the board and then strutting around like they've won something.


But they make the ingredients of a good pie . To the victor the spoils . wink.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 28 2017, 09:00 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Nov 28 2017, 02:42 PM) *
Here is a rather entertaining view of matters in hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vmh9oJ7G9c&feature=youtu.be

Funny, but a lot of cobblers too.

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 28 2017, 10:15 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 28 2017, 09:00 PM) *
Funny, but a lot of cobblers too.

As per post #48.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 29 2017, 06:56 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 28 2017, 10:15 PM) *
As per post #48.

The singling out of ‘liberals’ makes that post less effective too. Replace it with ‘people with entrenched views’, then that would be better.

Most things I read were seemingly accurate; only the headline was misleading, but headlines are often misleading and are really designed to draw you in. Making an argument based around the principle that because some people are selective with their objections makes their view less worthy isn’t a good argument in my view.

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 29 2017, 09:13 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 29 2017, 06:56 AM) *
The singling out of ‘liberals’ makes that post less effective too. Replace it with ‘people with entrenched views’, then that would be better.

Most things I read were seemingly accurate; only the headline was misleading, but headlines are often misleading and are really designed to draw you in. Making an argument based around the principle that because some people are selective with their objections makes their view less worthy isn’t a good argument in my view.

#48.

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 29 2017, 11:30 AM

And, where's JSC gorn? And newres? Think they've run away together? A fairytale ending? At Christmas? Awww rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 29 2017, 12:27 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 29 2017, 09:13 AM) *
#48.

QED

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 29 2017, 01:28 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 29 2017, 11:30 AM) *
And, where's JSC gorn? And newres? Think they've run away together? A fairytale ending? At Christmas? Awww rolleyes.gif

Mum and dad have confiscated their mobiles!

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 29 2017, 01:46 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 29 2017, 01:28 PM) *
Mum and dad have confiscated their mobiles!

laugh.gif Squabbling? Again? Lil agitators! laugh.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 29 2017, 04:09 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 29 2017, 11:30 AM) *
And, where's JSC gorn? And newres? Think they've run away together? A fairytale ending? At Christmas? Awww rolleyes.gif


"All I want for xmas is to remain in Europe , tra la la etc ".
I wonder if we turned round and said we want to re-join how much Michel Barnier and his cronies would ask for ?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 30 2017, 07:59 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 29 2017, 01:28 PM) *
Mum and dad have confiscated their mobiles!

Its Ok chaps. Newres has had to retire to his "safe space" after JSC bullied him. Shame on you. And JSC is now under caution from plod for this heinous crime.

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 30 2017, 09:49 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 30 2017, 07:59 AM) *
Its Ok chaps. Newres has had to retire to his "safe space" after JSC bullied him. Shame on you. And JSC is now under caution from plod for this heinous crime.

Tell us more?

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 30 2017, 12:41 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 30 2017, 07:59 AM) *
Its Ok chaps. Newres has had to retire to his "safe space" after JSC bullied him. Shame on you. And JSC is now under caution from plod for this heinous crime.


Just to keep this on thread , is newres a sentient being ? If yes then why are we treating him so badly ? If it is proven that he does not feel pain or experience empathy then surely we have an ethical obligation to respect his position in the food chain ?
The use of "dumb" animals for our blood lust pleasure is one of the reasons we are leaving the European club .

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 30 2017, 04:16 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 30 2017, 12:41 PM) *
Just to keep this on thread , is newres a sentient being ? If yes then why are we treating him so badly ? If it is proven that he does not feel pain or experience empathy then surely we have an ethical obligation to respect his position in the food chain ?
The use of "dumb" animals for our blood lust pleasure is one of the reasons we are leaving the European club .

Are potatoes sentient? Good question, maybe science can help us.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 30 2017, 05:01 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 30 2017, 04:16 PM) *
Are potatoes sentient? Good question, maybe science can help us.

I think in calling newres a potato you are doing them a disservice. Potatoes are useful.

Posted by: newres Nov 30 2017, 05:20 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 30 2017, 05:01 PM) *
I think in calling newres a potato you are doing them a disservice. Potatoes are useful.

They are edible. Not sure that they are useful.

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 30 2017, 06:38 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 30 2017, 05:20 PM) *
They are edible. Not sure that they are useful.

They give liberals something to talk to.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 30 2017, 06:49 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 30 2017, 05:20 PM) *
They are edible. Not sure that they are useful.


Look at their positive attributes . 1. They are small enough to not take up more than half the pavement like their human contemporaries .
2. They do not treat other vegetables as a lesser species . 3. They do not object to being eaten by " johnny foreigner " and they don't blindly follow a political doctrine even when the cause is hopeless .
Yes I like the humble potato , shame others don't share my view . rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine Dec 1 2017, 12:27 AM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 30 2017, 06:49 PM) *
Look at their positive attributes . 1. They are small enough to not take up more than half the parliament, unlike their Tory contemporaries .
2. They do not treat other vegetables as a lesser species . 3. They do not object to being browbeaten by " johnny foreigner " and they blindly follow a political doctrine even when the cause is hopeless .
Yes I like the humble Liberal , shame others don't share my view . rolleyes.gif

Fixxored. laugh.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Dec 1 2017, 09:04 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Dec 1 2017, 12:27 AM) *
Fixxored. laugh.gif


Wish I had thought of that . laugh.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 3 2017, 09:09 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 29 2017, 01:28 PM) *
Mum and dad have confiscated their mobiles!

Hi honey! I'm home! What a week that's been! Phew!

Posted by: Turin Machine Dec 4 2017, 04:14 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Dec 3 2017, 09:09 PM) *
Hi honey! I'm home! What a week that's been! Phew!

Jail? Holiday ? Work? Slave trading?

Posted by: SirWilliam Dec 4 2017, 06:01 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Dec 4 2017, 04:14 PM) *
Jail? Holiday ? Work? Slave trading?


Probably all 3 . laugh.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Dec 4 2017, 06:02 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Dec 4 2017, 06:01 PM) *
Probably all 3 . laugh.gif


I know there are 4 but I discounted holiday .

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 4 2017, 07:37 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Dec 4 2017, 04:14 PM) *
Jail? Holiday ? Work? Slave trading?


He was representing Britain at the EU talks...

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 4 2017, 09:19 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 4 2017, 07:37 PM) *
He was representing Britain at the EU talks...

That would have been fun!! No, I have been on a whistle stop tour of boatyards, chandlers and ports in search of my next boat, finally got the OK from 'She who must be passified' to replace our somewhat aging boat. Annoyingly, the one I really want is currently under offer. So I may need to look again in the new year.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 4 2017, 09:46 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Dec 4 2017, 09:19 PM) *
That would have been fun!! No, I have been on a whistle stop tour of boatyards, chandlers and ports in search of my next boat, finally got the OK from 'She who must be passified' to replace our somewhat aging boat. Annoyingly, the one I really want is currently under offer. So I may need to look again in the new year.



Presume its a Superyacht?

https://www.sporttechie.com/watch-interdimensional-portal-soccer-match-opened-arkit/

Worth a look for anyone interested in the future of entertainment / VR

Will have a lot of uses.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 5 2017, 04:25 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 4 2017, 09:46 PM) *
a Superyacht?

Will have a lot of uses.

Ha! I wonder if Sir Philip's is still on the market? No, something more modest, a Princess 40 or 42 for preference. Lots of space, good sea keeping, comfortable but not so big it can't be handled by one man.

Posted by: SirWilliam Dec 7 2017, 11:29 AM

https://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/home/23032/benyon-blasts-fake-news-in-animal-rights-row.html

So the slagging continues despite Benyon and most of his party explaining in words of one syllable their stance on the matter . This certainly shows that the Green Party has moved from an environmental position to a political one which must send a few shivers through the animal kingdom . Even the good old RSPCA who are quite happy to endorse an excessive dog breeding programme seem to think that throwing a donkey off a church roof in the name of the tooth fairy is quite acceptable but question the government on not encompassing it into UK legislation ? angry.gif
Still it fills a few column inches in the NWN which may pacify those who have an issue with said paper in another posting .

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 7 2017, 11:46 AM

Some of these people make bacteria look like Einstein.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 7 2017, 07:42 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Dec 7 2017, 11:29 AM) *
https://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/home/23032/benyon-blasts-fake-news-in-animal-rights-row.html

So the slagging continues despite Benyon and most of his party explaining in words of one syllable their stance on the matter . This certainly shows that the Green Party has moved from an environmental position to a political one which must send a few shivers through the animal kingdom . Even the good old RSPCA who are quite happy to endorse an excessive dog breeding programme seem to think that throwing a donkey off a church roof in the name of the tooth fairy is quite acceptable but question the government on not encompassing it into UK legislation ? angry.gif
Still it fills a few column inches in the NWN which may pacify those who have an issue with said paper in another posting .

I disagree, panic early, panic often. I see nothing wrong with making sure we let them know we are keeping an eye on their activities. After all, evidently the PM’s word carries little credibility.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 7 2017, 07:47 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 7 2017, 07:42 PM) *
I disagree, panic early, panic often. I see nothing wrong with making sure we let them know we are keeping an eye on their activities. After all, evidently the PM’s word carries little credibility.

See post #78

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 7 2017, 08:29 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Dec 7 2017, 07:47 PM) *
See post #78

Your post is a simple ‘customary’ insult, where as mine is evidence based.

Posted by: Turin Machine Dec 7 2017, 11:35 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 7 2017, 08:29 PM) *
Your post is a simple ‘customary’ insult, where as mine is evidence based.

I think JSC's is as well.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 8 2017, 05:18 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Dec 7 2017, 11:35 PM) *
I think JSC's is as well.

Perhaps JSC has a point.

Posted by: newres Dec 8 2017, 07:32 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 8 2017, 05:18 AM) *
Perhaps JSC has a point.


laugh.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 8 2017, 08:06 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 7 2017, 08:29 PM) *
Your post is a simple ‘customary’ insult, where as mine is evidence based.

Oh Andy, Andy Andy, as the late great Tom Petty would say "A rebel without a clue".

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 8 2017, 09:09 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Dec 8 2017, 08:06 AM) *
Oh Andy, Andy Andy, as the late great Tom Petty would say "A rebel without a clue".

I know enough to distrust anything a politician says and the Tories are no exception. In this instance, the headline was false and misleading, but the story wasn’t. I also think the Tories failed to explain their position. Just saying this isn’t the right place for this legislation doesn’t cut it.

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