Victoria Park development Options

[blackdog]

I'm amazed this topic has not appeared already!

Mind you the NWN seems to be burying the story by piling in an abnormal number of stories on the website today.

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article...articleID=11499

Better quality pictures and a map http://www.newbury.net/forum/m-1257379199/


Who wants it? Who hates it?

[Iommi]

I think it is disgusting. A rape of precious open land. An over-powering and offensive building and I'm shocked NGPT paid £50,000.00 for this! Without putting the project out to tender, this project has the stench of something unsavoury.

[Exhausted]

I think it is disgusting. A rape of precious open land. An over-powering and offensive building and I'm shocked NGPT paid £50,000.00 for this! Without putting the project out to tender, this project has the stench of something unsavoury.

Newbury's favourite architect, for this job funded by the Greenham Trust but look for similarities with the library and Camp Hopsons.

[blackdog]

Newbury's favourite architect, for this job funded by the Greenham Trust but look for similarities with the library and Camp Hopsons.

Not this time - check out the pictures at the URLs in my first post. Patrick Griffin may own the company but it was an employee, Ian Blake, who seems to have come up with this monstrosity.

[Iommi]

Not this time - check out the pictures at the URLs in my first post. Patrick Griffin may own the company but it was an employee, Ian Blake, who seems to have come up with this monstrosity.

Which amounts to the same thing. Who is the cheque made out to?

[Jacklets]

I'm amazed this topic has not appeared already!

The topic has already appeared - but under random rants but probably better it's here now.

Now that all is revealed it's now clearer how big the proposed building is and that there will be a much wider impact to the park as a whole. If that building is given planning permission, then surely there's a danger that other buildings could sneak in there.

I haven't looked at the plans in detail yet, but would be interested to know where there will be vehicle access to it, if the existing cafe building will disappear and if it's been revealed where the waterside centre fits into it all?

Victoria Park is an open space that should be enjoyed by all and not dominated by a building that size, if this development goes ahead then it will never be the same again. So those that feel the same should take an interest, write letters and respond to the consultation, rather than keep quiet, let it go through, and then complain about the mess and disruption when the diggers move in.

[TheObserver]

I think it looks quite nice, and will create a better buzz around the park.. I would rather look at this well designed building than the dual carrage way... The redesign and modernisation of the boating pond is also a step forward for Victoria Park.

When ever something like this is put forward you will always have the doubters, but I really think that this could get more people using this (currently) under used area.

[Guest_Nelly_*]

"where does the waterside centre fit into it all? "

As I understand it the Waterside centre does not fit into it at all. The decision was made years ago that the waterside centre be demolished and flats put in its place. (Worth more to WBC) I bet if they had not let this once great facility be virtually run into the ground it would not cost anywhere near the 6-7 million being quoted to build this new pavilion. I am also curious as to where this additional "building in the centre of the park" will go, surely if showers etc are required a better building could be placed where the current public facilities are - where it would not take up valuable open space?

I will certainly be popping down to have a look at the plans, the NWN article refers to moving the pond and does not show the current children’s play area etc. (Great thinking if the current play area stays where it is - gate gets left open and children run straight into the new pond!) It is only the top corner of the park that WBC did not sell on to Newbury DC so surely they cannot just decide to move the park around to suit their proposed building?

Although it would be nice to see some areas of the park upgraded I don't think anyone can justify the amounts of money being quoted when so much else could be done with it across the district.

[blackdog]

"where does the waterside centre fit into it all? "

As I understand it the Waterside centre does not fit into it at all. The decision was made years ago that the waterside centre be demolished and flats put in its place. (Worth more to WBC) I bet if they had not let this once great facility be virtually run into the ground it would not cost anywhere near the 6-7 million being quoted to build this new pavilion. I am also curious as to where this additional "building in the centre of the park" will go, surely if showers etc are required a better building could be placed where the current public facilities are - where it would not take up valuable open space?

All this information is on the map/plan of the park (see the newbury.net link in my opening post). Some facitilties that will be lost from the Waterside are located at the north of the new building on the first floor. Others will be shared with the arts crowd.

The changing rooms are planned to sit between the MUGA (currently the tennis courts) and the sculpture park (the old putting green). However, the curent pavillion planning will be for the build of the pavillion, nothing else apart from the new footbridge. The scheme promises a lot but should be treated with suspicion, anything apart from the pavillion is totally conceptual.

I will certainly be popping down to have a look at the plans, the NWN article refers to moving the pond and does not show the current children’s play area etc. (Great thinking if the current play area stays where it is - gate gets left open and children run straight into the new pond!) It is only the top corner of the park that WBC did not sell on to Newbury DC so surely they cannot just decide to move the park around to suit their proposed building?

Although it would be nice to see some areas of the park upgraded I don't think anyone can justify the amounts of money being quoted when so much else could be done with it across the district.

The plans at the library show a play area to the north of the pavillion (under trees) and a skateboarding area beyond. Yes the play area is pretty close to the new pond.

WBC have not sold any of the park to anyone, they hold the freehold of the lot (inherited from Newbury Borough when it was abolished in 1974). What they should do is hand back the old Borough freeholds to NTC, the obvious successors to the old Borough. Newbury residents were really shafted in '74 when the powers that were decided not to create a town council to inherit the Borough properties.

[Guest_Nelly_*]

Well I have just been to the library to look at the display and was pleased to see a lot of people there looking at the proposals. Whilst there I did not hear anyone saying they thought the plans were suitable. This “pavilion” is only a small part of proposed redevelopment of the area (including the wharf) all of which apparently the residents of Newbury want?! Or at least this was the conclusion was of the Vision 2025 questionnaires that were completed in 2007. Up until this morning I had yet to meet one person who had actually seen one of these questionnaires, and guess what that one person I finally found worked for the architect - Griffins!

Most of the proposed facilities already exist within the town centre either at the Waterside Centre or at places such as the Corn Exchange and this should not be called a pavilion an arts centre or community centre is closer to the mark. A much smaller building sensitively placed that contained showers/toilets, café etc is all the park needs in the way of buildings, and a wacky idea I know but how about extending the current playground (which if proposals go ahead will cover less ground than the “pavilion”) as this is where the majority of this mornings park users were.

I would urge anyone, supporter or otherwise to visit the WBC page below where you can view the plans and give your feedback until 23rd November 2009.

http://www.westberks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=18467

[Guest_Nelly_*]

And if you do feel strongly against these plans why not sign up to the facebook page "Save Victoria Park Newbury from development" - it worked for the St Barts Luker proposal.

[JeffG]

Up until this morning I had yet to meet one person who had actually seen one of these questionnaires, and guess what that one person I finally found worked for the architect - Griffins!

Which confirms my cynical view that the Vision people send their questionnaires to a select list of people who they know will give them the answers they want.

In the past I have been round, and thoroughly enjoyed, the National Gallery, the Louvre, the Rijksmuseum and many other similar institutions, but I am afraid I am one of the tiny minority of Newbury residents who could quite happily survive without an arts centre at all.

I say tiny minority, otherwise this would not be happening at all, would it?

(Mind you, I have just seen that Stewart Francis is appearing there tonight, but that could just as well have been at the Corn Exchange - we don't need two similar venues).

[blackdog]

I say tiny minority, otherwise this would not be happening at all, would it?

Good point.

..., but that could just as well have been at the Corn Exchange - we don't need two similar venues).

To be fair the auditorium in the proposed Pavillion is more a replacement venue for amatuer dramatic groups than competition for the Corn Exchange (which such groups cannot afford).

But there is absolutely no reason to locate such a facility in the park - unlike the auditorium proposed in the 2007 scheme - it has no interaction with the external space. New Greenham Trust have recently bought and revamped the RAFA Hall for similar use, I fail to see why we/they need another such space.

[Iommi]

I suspect it has to contain an arts element, to attract funding from the appropriate art council.

[Thirtover]

I think the building of the pavilion will be seen to be a waste of money and a loss of important open space.

Does this consultation have any standing on the decisions. According to the WBC portfolio holder it doesn't as quoted in the NWN 30th Oct.

Having said that everyone make your views known

[blackdog]

I think the building of the pavilion will be seen to be a waste of money and a loss of important open space.

Does this consultation have any standing on the decisions. According to the WBC portfolio holder it doesn't as quoted in the NWN 30th Oct.

Having said that everyone make your views known

To make your opinions known you need to write to your councillors and, when the planning application is being considered write to them again, and to the planning authorities.

Posting on forums and writing to the NWN is a great way of making your views known, but a way that the planners can conveniently ignore!

[user23]

To make your opinions known you need to write to your councillors and, when the planning application is being considered write to them again, and to the planning authorities.

Posting on forums and writing to the NWN is a great way of making your views known, but a way that the planners can conveniently ignore!

They're not conveniently ignored by planners or anyone else for that matter just they can't be taken as a sample of public opinion.

I certainly wouldn't base my view of what people in Newbury thought on what I read here.

[blackdog]

They're not conveniently ignored by planners or anyone else for that matter just they can't be taken as a sample of public opinion.

I certainly wouldn't base my view of what people in Newbury thought on what I read here.

Well done - a perfect demonstration of the thought process that allows planners to ignore the opinions expressed in this and other forums.

Whereas it is painfully obvious to any normal person that opinions expresses here are: a) opinions and b ) from members of the public. Or to put it concisely - a sample of public opinion.

[Iommi]

I certainly wouldn't base my view of what people in Newbury thought on what I read here.

That is fair, but I would say that the majority of people in Newbury will just go with whatever, or at least won't try hard to make their voice heard.

It is often left to the ayes and nays to fight it out.

[user23]

Well done - a perfect demonstration of the thought process that allows planners to ignore the opinions expressed in this and other forums.

Whereas it is painfully obvious to any normal person that opinions expresses here are: a) opinions and b ) from members of the public. Or to put it concisely - a sample of public opinion.

It's not a valid, unbiased sample of local residents though is it?

It's generally miserable people posting under pseudonyms, with an axe to grind complaining about something despite living in one of the most affluent areas in the World.

How many threads do you see started "Well done to..." compared to how good we actually have it here

That is fair, but I would say that the majority of people in Newbury will just go with whatever, or at least won't try hard to make their voice heard.

It is often left to the ayes and nays to fight it out.

True, except the ayes are less likely to speak up.

Remember all those complaints about Veolia when they first started round here. See any now?

No that's because they seem to be providing a decent service and people don't generally speak up when things are going to their satisfaction.