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European Union., In or Out? |
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Dec 14 2014, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 14 2014, 04:01 PM) Do you want to leave the European Union or stay in? If there was a referendum tomorrow and I was forced to choose one way or the other, I might well choose out because Europe is about as admin-heavy as it can get, and as a small-state laissez-faire liberal I don't like that. I think coming out would leave us both economically and socially isolated from Europe and I can't see that being a good thing, but I think the growing antipathy towards foreigners is probably a bigger social ill so I'm largely persuaded that the lesser of two evils is to secede. But TDH, it's pretty far down my list of political concerns.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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Dec 14 2014, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Dec 14 2014, 05:22 PM) I think the growing antipathy towards foreigners is probably a bigger social ill so I'm largely persuaded that the lesser of two evils is to secede. Interestingly I see it the other way - secession would (IMO) feed the growth of nationalistic xenophobia and serve only to ioslate and marignalise the UK. I'll be voting to stay in the EU if I ever get the chance.
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Dec 14 2014, 06:15 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Dec 14 2014, 05:44 PM) Interestingly I see it the other way - secession would (IMO) feed the growth of nationalistic xenophobia and serve only to ioslate and marignalise the UK. I'll be voting to stay in the EU if I ever get the chance. As an aside, I make a major distinction between nationalism in the positive sense of national pride and belonging, and xenophobia in the negative sense of hating and fearing foreigners and believing one's nationality superior, and it frustrates me that the two are frequently conflated. But it would appear that our concerns are at any rate the same, and it's not clear to me which of us has the better solution.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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Dec 15 2014, 09:11 AM
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QUOTE (r.bartlett @ Dec 14 2014, 10:11 PM) :-) And this is how you end your diatribe?
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Dec 15 2014, 01:06 PM
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QUOTE (JeffG @ Dec 15 2014, 09:11 AM) And this is how you end your diatribe? It was more a statement of fact which has no counter. The common market was currupt from the start with wine lakes and butter mountains. Nothing has changed. The auditors have criticised the accounts every year for the last 20 and the powers that be ignore them because they are untouchable.
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Dec 15 2014, 02:35 PM
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QUOTE (r.bartlett @ Dec 15 2014, 01:06 PM) It was more a statement of fact which has no counter. Use of words like "betrayal", "sell out", "fateful", "dispise" (sic), "stinking cesspit" etc. strikes me more as a statement of opinion than fact. A diatribe, in fact.
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Dec 15 2014, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE (JeffG @ Dec 15 2014, 02:35 PM) Use of words like "betrayal", "sell out", "fateful", "dispise" (sic), "stinking cesspit" etc. strikes me more as a statement of opinion than fact. A diatribe, in fact. Nonetheless, descriptive, and according to the media, fits the perception of many. What adjectives woukd you use to describe the EU, positive ones are permitted!! I'll have a go - laudable (it is a good idea in concept at least), corrupt (financial audits not signed off for several years), unaccountable (continuing silence from elected members, wasteful (costly unnecessary permanent admin swap between Brussels and France),
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Know your place!
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Dec 15 2014, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Dec 15 2014, 05:45 PM) Nonetheless, descriptive, and according to the media, fits the perception of many. What adjectives woukd you use to describe the EU, positive ones are permitted!!
I'll have a go - laudable (it is a good idea in concept at least), corrupt (financial audits not signed off for several years), unaccountable (continuing silence from elected members, wasteful (costly unnecessary permanent admin swap between Brussels and France), So, UKIP have got it right then!!
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There their, loose loser!
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Dec 15 2014, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE (x2lls @ Dec 15 2014, 06:46 PM) So, UKIP have got it right then!! It's hard to disagree and to be honest, I haven't heard a convincing case 'for' even from the most Europhile party.
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Know your place!
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Dec 15 2014, 07:16 PM
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QUOTE (x2lls @ Dec 15 2014, 06:46 PM) So, UKIP have got it right then!! I think they have got all of those things right that OtE listed, yes. I'm also impressed with some of the no-nonsense common sense that some in UKIP have brought to local government - remember the UKIP councillor who stood up to that awful harridan when the poor chap wanted to film the council meeting? I find this aspect of the party very appealing. I have no doubt that UKIP has attracted very many decent moderates who have had enough of the political gravy train just as I have, but I am worried about how much antipathy I'm seeing directed towards the social liberals such as myself.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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