Allotments on the One Show, Greenwich allotmenteers fight 200% rent hike Options

[Simon Kirby]

My feeling is that there is a wider issue than whether panda will ever agree with Simon. The personalisation of the debate devalues it and diverts attention from what I think are the core issues.
As best I can tell, each allotment site has a 'society'. I doubt Simon set them all up? Are they all run by tyrants? Is it a mechanism for the plot holders to communicate with NTC? How did Was Common 'talk' to NTC before there was a society? How was the WC society set up?
I'd very much like for someone other than Simon or panda to respond, as otherwise we will only be told the answers are false....

Allotmenteers have never been consulted. The Council opposed the Wash Common society from the off principally because it does not want the allotmenteers involving themselves in the management and administration of the service. The notional interface between the sites and the council is the site steward, an individual appointed by the council to represent the council's interests on site. The Council meets the stewards quarterly and the stewards put forward recommendations for changes, but there is no mechanism for the stewards to consult the allotmenteers other than their ad-hoc conversations with their friends.

The Council instituted annual site meetings last year, and miserable affairs they are. Notionally they give the allotmenteers an opportunity to raise issues but there is no democratic mandate, and the issues raised at the meetings go no further - there has been no debate on any issue raised at a Community Services Committee.

NWNREADER, I post here in my own name and so a personal attack affects my standing and reputation, so even if panda's comments are the gibberings of a loon I need to refute the substantive accusations. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of designating panda a Vexatious Complainant and just ignoring her, and she just might post something that sheds some light on the issues. It won't have escaped you that my contention is that the Town Council has not acted even handedly in this matter, and if those issues are not resolved there will be no self-management, though the council will lead us all a merry dance for some years until that's obvious.

[panda]

My feeling is that there is a wider issue than whether panda will ever agree with Simon. The personalisation of the debate devalues it and diverts attention from what I think are the core issues.
As best I can tell, each allotment site has a 'society'. I doubt Simon set them all up? Are they all run by tyrants? Is it a mechanism for the plot holders to communicate with NTC? How did Was Common 'talk' to NTC before there was a society? How was the WC society set up?
I'd very much like for someone other than Simon or panda to respond, as otherwise we will only be told the answers are false....

There are three allotment society's. Two out of three are run very well

[Richard Garvie]

from his one and only mate

A few days ago, you were saying that it the Richard and Simon club, so make your mind up ;-)

[Cognosco]

There are three allotment society's. Two out of three are run very well

Ah facts at last!

What are these Society's called and where are they? Can you explain why they are run very well and how they are run? What is their constitution? Why is the third Society not run very well? What Society is it? Why is it not run very well?

Please confine yourself to giving facts and we shall progress this debate sensibly with a bit of luck?

[Richard Garvie]

There were no votes cast, there was no democratic method for him to get elected. I have never said i am against self management. On the other hand i dont want to cut grass, fix fences, pay extra for water and do general maintenance around the site. I want to work my plot and that is all. I dont believe Simon's figures and that is what they are, his figures. On other posts he has dfferent figures, savings from £75.000 to £300.000. The savings go up all the time so no they dont add up.

Wrong. Simon has posted various figures, but anyone with a brain can see what each figure relates to. I believe the figure of £300k related to certain other services being handed over to community responsibility?

[panda]

A few days ago, you were saying that it the Richard and Simon club, so make your mind up ;-)

Sorry i forgot about you. But i expect many people do

[panda]

Ah facts at last!

What are these Society's called and where are they? Can you explain why they are run very well and how they are run? What is their constitution? Why is the third Society not run very well? What Society is it? Why is it not run very well?

Please confine yourself to giving facts and we shall progress this debate sensibly with a bit of luck?

West mills allotment society and southby's allotment society. Southby's has been going for a number of years and West Mills for about a year

[Cognosco]

Sorry i forgot about you. But i expect many people do

Panda you have failed yet again why will you not learn? Facts only please???

[panda]

Panda you have failed yet again why will you not learn? Facts only please???

i have given you facts

[panda]

West mills allotment society and southby's allotment society. Southby's has been going for a number of years and West Mills for about a year

[panda]

Sorry i forgot about you. But i expect many people do

that was meant to be for amusement only

[Cognosco]

West mills allotment society and southby's allotment society. Southby's has been going for a number of years and West Mills for about a year

OK now? What is their constitution and why do you think they are run OK? How do they communicate with the council? What say do tenants have? How many meetings do they have per year? Just give us all the details? Which Society is not run very well and give us the facts of why you think this is?

[Richard Garvie]

that was meant to be for amusement only

How very grown up!!! Do you treat everyone who questions you or the council in that way?

[panda]

How very grown up!!! Do you treat everyone who questions you or the council in that way?

have you lost your sense of humour

[Cognosco]

have you lost your sense of humour

No but trying to get any sense from you is making me lose the will to live.

If your are anything to do with the council it would explain why they are such an inept authority?

[panda]

No but trying to get any sense from you is making me lose the will to live.

If your are anything to do with the council it would explain why they are such an inept authority?

I was answering Richard

[panda]

No but trying to get any sense from you is making me lose the will to live.

If your are anything to do with the council it would explain why they are such an inept authority?

I was answering Richard

[NWNREADER]

I was answering Richard

I think we heard you the first time, but you could start a fight in an empty room. Hardly surprising if someone queries your attempts at humour whoever it was targeted at...

[Andy Capp]

You've hit the nail on the head there, I suspect. There's a good chance these savings are made by getting you, the holder of the allotment to do the maintenance and administration the council now carries out.

When I've challenged on here and asked to see a SLA and detail of who would be required to do I've had no response.

Of course if you didn't want to join in and cut grass, fix fences, etc, you'd probably be in breach of your new terms from the self-managed allotment society and would be kicked out.

Well done you for standing up to a tinpot tyrant and, if what you say is correct, his bully boy tactics.

So slagging down Simon Kirkby at every opportunity is your definition of standing up to a tinpot dictator is it? As for SLA; that is yet to be decided by all parties but could be based on the current arrangement. As for who would be required to do it, that could be by several methods, the one I'd advocate is that people who volunteer, would get their plot at a discount. Self management is only one option, another is that allotmenteers simply pay their way.

[Cognosco]

So slagging down Simon Kirkby at every opportunity is your definition of standing up to a tinpot dictator is it? As for SLA; that is yet to be decided by all parties but could be based on the current arangement. As for who would be required to do it, that could be by several methods, the one I'd advocate is that people who volunteer, would get their plot at a discount. Self management is only one option, another is that allotmenteers simply pay their way.

I don't have an allotment but if I did I would seriously look at self management.
It would appear that it would save taxpayers and tenants money and would give more democratic freedom to make decisions as a Society.

I would still like to hear serious arguments, if any, of why self management would be detrimental to tenants?