A question for Julian Swift-Hook Options

[Richard Garvie]

So now I'm JSH?

Lol.

But no denial??

[Andy Capp]

I'm uncomfortable with this outing idea. I am much more interested in the quality of the posts, than who is behind them.

[blackdog]

But no denial??

Would you believe one?

Anyway its far too much fun to think that there are people out there thinking I am the voice of NTC.

[Richard Garvie]

I'm uncomfortable with this outing idea. I am much more interested in the quality of the posts, than who is behind them.

Me too. I've known for a while now, I wouldn't have mentioned it but I was talking to someone yesterday and this thread is complete and utter BS as a result of that chat.

The lengths some people go to in order to deceive.

Come on Blackdog, I'd like you to deny it so that when everything is said and done, your true colours will be seen by everyone. I will also be looking at how many past posts you edit this week with interest ;-)

[blackdog]

Me too. I've known for a while now, I wouldn't have mentioned it but I was talking to someone yesterday and this thread is complete and utter BS as a result of that chat.

The lengths some people go to in order to deceive.

Come on Blackdog, I'd like you to deny it so that when everything is said and done, your true colours will be seen by everyone. I will also be looking at how many past posts you edit this week with interest ;-)

So, let me get this right - you wouldn't believe a denial - you just want me to deny it so you can expose me/JSH as a fraud?

And the incentive for me to deny it is?

Funny how this thread is drifting away from Labour's involvement in the de-democratisation of local government.

Still must be off now - 57 posts to edit before dawn.

[Richard Garvie]

So, let me get this right - you wouldn't believe a denial - you just want me to deny it so you can expose me/JSH as a fraud?

And the incentive for me to deny it is?

Funny how this thread is drifting away from Labour's involvement in the de-democratisation of local government.

Still must be off now - 57 posts to edit before dawn.

Is that a double contradiction??

What you are saying essentially is that you won't deny it because it's true??

Was this thread about Labour's de-democratisation of politics or asking yourself why the Lib Dems changed the way West Berks operates?? There was no mention of Labour until you answered your own question, so I'm guessing only you would have known that it would eventually be about Labour.

[blackdog]

What you are saying essentially is that you won't deny it because it's true??

No, I'm saying that I won't deny it because there's no point, have already intimated that you wouldn't believe me if I did and, let's face it, it's far more fun not to.

So what is your opinion of Labour's legislation that reduced local democracy?

[Richard Garvie]

No, I'm saying that I won't deny it because there's no point, have already intimated that you wouldn't believe me if I did and, let's face it, it's far more fun not to.

So what is your opinion of Labour's legislation that reduced local democracy?

I would put it to a referendum locally with all of the available options. I think committee is least effective and it can be a talking shop where little gets done. When Labour changed the available options, I believe the options available were the most effective ones. I'd remove the mayor and admin officer option though, and let choice be between:

Leader and cabinet (as current)
Directly elected Mayor and cabinet

Both are effective, the mayor model probably more so for a unitary.

[Andy Capp]

Committee is a form of PR isn't it?

[blackdog]

I would put it to a referendum locally with all of the available options. I think committee is least effective and it can be a talking shop where little gets done. When Labour changed the available options, I believe the options available were the most effective ones. I'd remove the mayor and admin officer option though, and let choice be between:

Leader and cabinet (as current)
Directly elected Mayor and cabinet

Both are effective, the mayor model probably more so for a unitary.

I thought you said that you had collected enough signatures to force a referendum on the mayor issue? If so why haven't we had one?

If there was to be a referendum could it include the committee system as an option?

[blackdog]

Committee is a form of PR isn't it?

In the same way the the House of Commons is a form of PR - ie not very.

The Executive system is as if the ConDem Cabinet was ruling without having to put their legislation to Parliament for approval. There is a 'scrutiny' system, which, in theory, will expose executive decisions to some form of more democratic oversight (cf Commons Select Committees) - but it really doesn't seem to work very well.

The Committee system is cumbersome, hence Labour's decision to abolish it, but it did expose the decision making process to scrutiny before the decision was made (not after). Most, if not all, councillors would serve on one or more committees and any decent councillor would get involved in the work of the committee (I'm not so naive as to think they would all bother). Obviously the majority party could still railroad through their pet projects, but open committee meetings exposes far more of the decision making to public scrutiny (a lot of council decisions these days go through on the Executive Member's signature with no public exposure whatsoever).

[Andy Capp]

And we can thank Labour for this?

[user23]

But no denial??

Aren't you getting a bit paranoid?

Would someone really start a thread to criticise themselves?

[Cognosco]

Aren't you getting a bit paranoid?

Would someone really start a thread to criticise themselves?

Yes if they were part of NTC they don't come more devious! Especially if it gives them the means to raise a debate to enable them to deflect some of the criticism to others

[Richard Garvie]

Aren't you getting a bit paranoid?

Would someone really start a thread to criticise themselves?

He only did it after I told one of his senior colleagues his alias on here. It's like he posted the thread to try and prove he wasn't blackdog, but ended up making himself look silly.

Is he criticising himself? As he pointed out, this thread is about Labour de-democratisation... something that everybody else only discovers when he makes that point. He started the thread, yet Labour wasn't even mentioned until he put out his "special newsletter". Did anyone actually get that newsletter??

[NWNREADER]

He only did it after I told one of his senior colleagues his alias on here. It's like he posted the thread to try and prove he wasn't blackdog, but ended up making himself look silly.

Is he criticising himself? As he pointed out, this thread is about Labour de-democratisation... something that everybody else only discovers when he makes that point. He started the thread, yet Labour wasn't even mentioned until he put out his "special newsletter". Did anyone actually get that newsletter??

Why? What proof did you have and what purpose did you seek?

[blackdog]

Why? What proof did you have and what purpose did you seek?

Good question. What proof do you have Richard?

[Richard Garvie]

Good question. What proof do you have Richard?

You know.

[blackdog]

You know.

Do I? News to me.

Why not share it so everyone can judge?

[Richard Garvie]

Why? What proof did you have and what purpose did you seek?

I was joking with one of his colleagues about the way he does business and how he writes something on here that sometimes varies from his party view and what he says publicly.