New Labour abandoned nationalisation; not Clause 4.

...but it worked for Mrs Thatcher who in 1979 delivered the 1945 Conservative manifesto!

Public ownership isn't nationalisation or centralisation it's simply another way of delivering service particularly where there is no realistic chance of creating a market. No, it isn't idealism either. Several other nation states successfully use various forms of public ownership models, most of the Continental railways are in public ownership, as is energy distribution. Similarly, in that bastion of capitalism, the United States. Even more ironic, the public ownership model in this Country was given life by the Conservatives, with BBC, LPTB, CEB. C & W etc. all arguably quite successful!

Resurrected again in 2015.

Sniffs of public ownership to me (albeit another country). And how much has the 'public' had to shell-out to the banks to prop that industry up?

Yes, but not when Corbyn is in charge and they move to centre ground.

I should have said they revised clause 4.

It wasn't exactly the same and the voters would rather move to the right than the left.

Oops, post error!

Well, with a bit of luck they WILL have him as leader. And if as you say they will get nowhere, that will suit me just fine. We haven't yet got the economy in the right state to enable them to throw it all away again!

It is not healthy for a government not feel threatened.

I like the idea. I think the government and opposition should be different not both trying to be popularist. The Labour Party should be the Labour Party, regardless of whether they think they can get elected or not. Work on the policy, and then promote it. They' e got 5 years after all!

I think that's quite right. In fact, the biggest issue with politics today is that all parties are saying and selling the same thing. There is no choice; so in effect, the winner is the party which had the most physically attractive leader. It's been quite interesting to hear the really quite vapid comments coming from the main stream Labour leadership contenders - no argument, just negative put downs. Exactly the way all three main parties spin along right now. The market forces model they all slavishly follow today is just as much ideology as Clause 4! A real opposition can only be a good thing; proposals properly tested for once.

Exactly, and by allowing Corbyn to become leader they won't be threatened for sometime. This will make them arrogant and that will damage the country.

Yes, but what is the Labour Party in the 21st century? A throwback to the past or a modern working party that deals with today's issues? Blair was right to change the Labour party. He become toxic and hollow. That shouldn't mean that Labour throws the baby out with the bathwater (which they are now doing). The working man has all but gone, now most regard themselves as middleclass. Corbyn and Milliband were/ are just interested in attacking the rich. Nobody gets very far by attacking the rich, what they should have done is concentrate on those that needed help and try to make their lot a bit better. Just offering help to one group, while attacking another only destroyed them and put them out of power for another five years.

That is the trouble with the Labour party at the present; they've got nobody outstanding. Corbyn won't achieve anything worthwhile for the Labour party, in fact he will send it backwards. The same could be said about the other 3 challengers. Nothing is 100%, but I am pretty certain that the Tories will win in 2020. And don't forgot by then they will have a new leader, while Labour with just have one of their dull faces in charge.

Don't write them off completely, they haven't abandoned all their 'Neu Labour' principles. We'll be seeing the next generation soon; the likes of Stephen Kinnock, the Benn sires, Daivd Prescott and even the Blairletts. We are still an aristocracy, and even the people's party know that.

I think the future is coalition, or at very least ministerial secondment. Running a country is homogenising I feel.

Remember the old adage: elections are not won; they are lost. It just needs the Tory sleaze to come back, or the economy to slip. Good governance also relies on a lot of luck. Labour were unlucky with regards the banking crash (and the Tories lucky it didn't land on their watch). I think Alistair Darling was heading in the right direction before the Monster Raving Tories were handed a go.



Talking of Monster Raving Tories; Petra and the Blue Rinsers have been quiet for a while? Good drying weather?

They are having some recuperation time...........not too much flack heading our two local authorities way at the moment..............they are awaiting the next major gaff, not too long to wait I suspect though? 😉

I suppose that as we already have a coalition of political aims and aspirations a permanent de facto coalition is the next step. Arguably, with our present managerial mode of government, this is probably seen as the best way. All the mainstream parties and politicians are so far from the electorate anyway voting in an election is as productive and useful as voting as a little shareholder in a public company. No point in trying to fight it.