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'Insured' motors, Will the police PLEASE take some action? |
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Aug 27 2009, 11:18 AM
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Advanced Member
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QUOTE (Darren @ Aug 27 2009, 11:32 AM) Perhaps they should scrap the whole welfare system. No state pensions, no benefits etc. Just be careful you don't suddenly find yourself in a position where you need them. Being hoisted by ones own petard can be rather painful. No, I don't think that the welfare system should be scrapped. it is a fundamental corner stone of our society and it is extremely important to us all. If you contribute to the system financially you should be able to benefit from it. If you are unable to contribute because of disablement or illness you should still be able to benefit. If you are denied being able to work and contribute then you should benefit. Those that don't contribute because they don't want to work or are drunks, drug addicts, overseas heath tourists etc etc should not be able to benefit. I know that this is an over simplification but you get my drift.
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Bloggo
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Aug 27 2009, 11:51 AM
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From: Newbury, Berkshire.
Member No.: 33
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QUOTE (Darren @ Aug 27 2009, 11:32 AM) Perhaps they should scrap the whole welfare system. No state pensions, no benefits etc. Just be careful you don't suddenly find yourself in a position where you need them. Being hoisted by ones own petard can be rather painful. Scrapping the welfare system would create more problems; just look at America. Millions of their citizens have no access to health care. Welfare payments are cut off after 5 years - that is 5 years in total over a life time- therefore crime is the only option. America is a capitalist society where wealth is rewarded and people at the poorer end are shunned.
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Aug 27 2009, 12:57 PM
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From: Bouvetøya
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 27 2009, 12:51 PM) Scrapping the welfare system would create more problems; just look at America. Millions of their citizens have no access to health care. Welfare payments are cut off after 5 years - that is 5 years in total over a life time- therefore crime is the only option. America is a capitalist society where wealth is rewarded and people at the poorer end are shunned. According to you punishment in the answer to crime, not state hand outs.
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Aug 27 2009, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (Darren @ Aug 27 2009, 10:53 AM) How about a 10% increase in taxation to cover it? How about a 10% increase in crimes solved and convictions handed out, and I'll think about it?
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Aug 27 2009, 04:38 PM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 27 2009, 04:20 PM) How about a 10% increase in crimes solved and convictions handed out, and I'll think about it? You want the 10% increase before you pay for it, on credit? It seems that some still haven't learnt from the Credit Crunch.
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Aug 27 2009, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Aug 27 2009, 01:57 PM) According to you punishment in the answer to crime, not state hand outs. Sorry Dannyboy I missed this.... I will answer now. Correct on both accounts. Punish criminals.... but since when are people who reply on the welfare state criminals? Are you saying we can't have both? They are two different things with two different answers.
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Aug 27 2009, 07:46 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 27 2009, 07:46 PM) Sorry Dannyboy I missed this.... I will answer now.
Correct on both accounts. Punish criminals.... but since when are people who reply on the welfare state criminals? Are you saying we can't have both? They are two different things with two different answers. You said that a lack of a welfare state in the USA was the reason for the high crime there. so, using reverse logic I assumed that you were in favour of handing out cash to folk to stop them, as a last resort, turning to crime. This, rather compasionate viewpoint, seems at odd with your normal answer of 'lock 'em up'. Pulling folk out of the poverty trap will only benefit society as a whole. It is a win-win situation.
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Aug 27 2009, 08:02 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 27 2009, 05:38 PM) You want the 10% increase before you pay for it, on credit?
It seems that some still haven't learnt from the Credit Crunch. No, I want to see proof of them doing the job in hand that I am paying for already before I start handing out bonuses. I am still skint from paying all the WBC staff to sit round doing nothing effective all day.
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Aug 27 2009, 08:51 PM
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Advanced Member
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From: Newbury, Berkshire.
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QUOTE You said that a lack of a welfare state in the USA was the reason for the high crime there. so, using reverse logic I assumed that you were in favour of handing out cash to folk to stop them, as a last resort, turning to crime. This, rather compasionate viewpoint, seems at odd with your normal answer of 'lock 'em up'. What you say doesn’t make sense; it is true – in some cases – that a lack of welfare does force people to do anything to survive. If you were in a country where they were killing people because of your religion you would kill to survive... ordinary people trying to survive by any means possible. If I couldn’t get a job and I had no money I probably would turn to crime, as you would. That is totally different from people committing crime for the sake of it. Your argument is illogical. QUOTE Pulling folk out of the poverty trap will only benefit society as a whole. It is a win-win situation. I agree... but cutting the welfare state won’t achieve that.
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Aug 27 2009, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 27 2009, 09:02 PM) No, I want to see proof of them doing the job in hand that I am paying for already before I start handing out bonuses. I am still skint from paying all the WBC staff to sit round doing nothing effective all day. You clearly stated you want them to produce 10% more results with the same resources before you'll give them any more money and now you've mentioned WBC for no reason at all. This seems to be the totally unrealistic something for nothing attitude we see so often in today's society.
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Aug 28 2009, 08:32 AM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 27 2009, 10:46 PM) You clearly stated you want them to produce 10% more results with the same resources before you'll give them any more money and now you've mentioned WBC for no reason at all.
This seems to be the totally unrealistic something for nothing attitude we see so often in today's society. I read Strafin's post differently. In fact he is asking for the money we spend now to be used effectively before agreeing to pay more. Not unreasonable I think.
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Bloggo
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Aug 28 2009, 08:43 AM
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Aug 28 2009, 09:32 AM) I read Strafin's post differently. In fact he is asking for the money we spend now to be used effectively before agreeing to pay more. Not unreasonable I think. Yes, that's the way I read it too, seems like common sense to me.
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Aug 28 2009, 08:58 AM
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QUOTE (Sarah @ Aug 28 2009, 09:43 AM) Yes, that's the way I read it too, seems like common sense to me. Seems that User 23 didn't understand? Also the shot at the Council staff isn't entirely without grounds. There a lot of staff there that do a good job however there are those that are lazy and workshy and are abusing their positions. I think the "working from home" culture is wasting tax payers money.
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Bloggo
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Aug 28 2009, 09:18 AM
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QUOTE (Iommi @ Aug 28 2009, 10:15 AM) Edited for accuracy! Yes, something on those lines.
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Bloggo
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Aug 28 2009, 09:24 AM
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I think my council tax is very reasonable and excellent value for money that is well spent. I would willingly pay more - they only have to ask! Oh, hold on, they do that already.
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