National Service Options

[Andy1]

I think the idea is to knock these lads into shape before it is too late. If they don't adjust their attitude then they can go to Colchester. A military prison is not quite like a Category C or Youth offenders institute....

National Service will not make a difference. I didn't make any difference back then and it won't now and please don't come back with it made a Man out of my Dad or Grandad, yes ofcourse it did for some because they wanted to do it

[TallDarkAndHands...]

National Service will not make a difference. I didn't make any difference back then and it won't now and please don't come back with it made a Man out of my Dad or Grandad, yes ofcourse it did for some because they wanted to do it

Ok then Andy1 - Do you have a better idea or should we just all give up and join the mass rabble on the streets. Do you realise that the entire direct taxation (PAYE) now only pays for the benefits system? In order for the NHS to be funded it has to come out of indirect taxation (like duty on petrol). So basically ALL my direct tax go's to fund the benefits system. I am happy to accomodate this where their is a genuine need but so many 'play' the system now that the system has entirely failed and a lot of the youth of today (like teenage girls making 'career' decisions to have as many babies as possible with as many fathers as possible) know this.

[GMR]

Ok then Andy1 - Do you have a better idea or should we just all give up and join the mass rabble on the streets. Do you realise that the entire direct taxation (PAYE) now only pays for the benefits system? In order for the NHS to be funded it has to come out of indirect taxation (like duty on petrol). So basically ALL my direct tax go's to fund the benefits system. I am happy to accomodate this where their is a genuine need but so many 'play' the system now that the system has entirely failed and a lot of the youth of today (like teenage girls making 'career' decisions to have as many babies as possible with as many fathers as possible) know this.

I have a better idea; wall, rifle, blindfold (optional), executor.

I bet somebody is going to bleat about the cost of the shells for the rifles and their human right etc.

[JeffG]

I bet somebody is going to bleat about the cost of the shells for the rifles and their human right etc.

In China, don't they charge the criminal's family for the bullet?

[Iommi]

Ok then Andy1 - Do you have a better idea or should we just all give up and join the mass rabble on the streets. Do you realise that the entire direct taxation (PAYE) now only pays for the benefits system? In order for the NHS to be funded it has to come out of indirect taxation (like duty on petrol). So basically ALL my direct tax go's to fund the benefits system. I am happy to accomodate this where their is a genuine need but so many 'play' the system now that the system has entirely failed and a lot of the youth of today (like teenage girls making 'career' decisions to have as many babies as possible with as many fathers as possible) know this.

As a society we have a number of issues, but my feelings are that conscription won't really work. It is a different world now, where I feel that Information Technology is assisting in the erosion of morality, be it perceived or real.

[GMR]

In China, don't they charge the criminal's family for the bullet?

so..... we can learn a lot from the Chinese then!

[Guest_Bill1_*]

so..... we can learn a lot from the Chinese then!

Not from I've been seeing on the news of late

[GMR]

Not from I've been seeing on the news of late

Only if they were winning you mean we could learn something?

[Guest_Newbury Expat_*]

Only if they were winning you mean we could learn something?

To add to the debate, maybe it's useful to see which other countries utilise conscription and whether you feel they benefit from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#...ilitary_service

As for the UK, my gut feel is that it could help. A lot of social problems stem from a lack of structure (at home due to 'don't care' parents, at school because they don't go, etc). Some form of national service would provide this and while it won't help those with definite social/behavioural problems, it would surely help some. Certainly more than giving them handouts - all that teaches is how to do the bare minimum.

Motivated young people don't need it but could still benefit from it.

[GMR]

To add to the debate, maybe it's useful to see which other countries utilise conscription and whether you feel they benefit from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#...ilitary_service

As for the UK, my gut feel is that it could help. A lot of social problems stem from a lack of structure (at home due to 'don't care' parents, at school because they don't go, etc). Some form of national service would provide this and while it won't help those with definite social/behavioural problems, it would surely help some. Certainly more than giving them handouts - all that teaches is how to do the bare minimum.

Motivated young people don't need it but could still benefit from it.

It might mean the young seeing the world from a different perspective; which wouldn't really hurt.

[Andy1]

Ok then Andy1 - Do you have a better idea or should we just all give up and join the mass rabble on the streets. Do you realise that the entire direct taxation (PAYE) now only pays for the benefits system? In order for the NHS to be funded it has to come out of indirect taxation (like duty on petrol). So basically ALL my direct tax go's to fund the benefits system. I am happy to accomodate this where their is a genuine need but so many 'play' the system now that the system has entirely failed and a lot of the youth of today (like teenage girls making 'career' decisions to have as many babies as possible with as many fathers as possible) know this.

Who funds the Armed Services. You'd be paying for 'them' either way whether on the streets or in a uniform. If you can prove that National Service made a difference then great bring it back but I'd suggest that those who didn't want to do it would have found a way. If Teenage Girls as you put it are making 'career' decisions to have as many babies as possible, then surely forcing NS on them would make them more likely to get pregnant to avoid it. The problem you describe goes back generations, it didn't happen over night nor since Labour took over.

The problem with a lot of the youth of today is that they are just lablled as you have done above, even if they trying better themselves. If they want to go the Uni then they'll be paying for it for years after. If they want an apprentership, they'll be lucky to find them. If they are not academic then a low paid job is all they'll have to look forward to. I don't have the solutions but improving the future for generations to come so they're are less likely to follow the road you suggest above

[GMR]

Who funds the Armed Services. You'd be paying for 'them' either way whether on the streets or in a uniform. If you can prove that National Service made a difference then great bring it back but I'd suggest that those who didn't want to do it would have found a way. If Teenage Girls as you put it are making 'career' decisions to have as many babies as possible, then surely forcing NS on them would make them more likely to get pregnant to avoid it. The problem you describe goes back generations, it didn't happen over night nor since Labour took over.

The problem with a lot of the youth of today is that they are just lablled as you have done above, even if they trying better themselves. If they want to go the Uni then they'll be paying for it for years after. If they want an apprentership, they'll be lucky to find them. If they are not academic then a low paid job is all they'll have to look forward to. I don't have the solutions but improving the future for generations to come so they're are less likely to follow the road you suggest above

I agree with a lot of what you say; that a lot of the youth are fairly put on. However, we are not talking about those ones, but those that wish to cause trouble. The national service might not be an ideal solution, but it is better than nothing. Yes, girls might get pregnant so that they don’t have to do national service; but what is the alternative? Allow them on their merry way? Maybe you have a better solution? Dingo nothing is not an option. Also saying that this problem has been going on for years is not a good excuse either. Wars have been going on for years; should we then stop protesting/ finding solutions to end wars and let them get on with it?


As for funds; one way or another tax money is going to be needed to sort this problem out. National service is a good away as any.

[Bloggo]

I agree with a lot of what you say; that a lot of the youth are fairly put on. However, we are not talking about those ones, but those that wish to cause trouble. The national service might not be an ideal solution, but it is better than nothing. Yes, girls might get pregnant so that they don’t have to do national service; but what is the alternative? Allow them on their merry way? Maybe you have a better solution? Dingo nothing is not an option. Also saying that this problem has been going on for years is not a good excuse either. Wars have been going on for years; should we then stop protesting/ finding solutions to end wars and let them get on with it?


As for funds; one way or another tax money is going to be needed to sort this problem out. National service is a good away as any.

Yep, I agree with that but first the Goverment has to come to the conclusion that there is a problem and they won't do that as it proves that the policies they have supported for the last 10 years haven't worked.
Have you ever heard any member of this Governent say "sorry, I got it wrong"?

[GMR]

Yep, I agree with that but first the Goverment has to come to the conclusion that there is a problem and they won't do that as it proves that the policies they have supported for the last 10 years haven't worked.
Have you ever heard any member of this Governent say "sorry, I got it wrong"?

No, I haven't and I agree.

The Asbos they also issue is also a con. Many thugs wear them has a mark or pride (an achievement). There is only one language they will understand; strong discipline.

[Bloggo]

No, I haven't and I agree.

The Asbos they also issue is also a con. Many thugs wear them has a mark or pride (an achievement). There is only one language they will understand; strong discipline.

Amen to that!!!!

[Road User]

The idea of National Service is a good one for several reasons. One you could tell all the benefit louts no more benefits unless you do national service. This works for men and women as the military services need all sorts with recruitment down.

I am not saying send them to the front line but there is plenty of non combat jobs that need doing here on the military bases. Look at the accommodation they provide for the serving soldiers and their families. It’s appalling in some areas! This will teach them a trade, be it plumbing, decorating or mechanics. Then when they leave the national service they will have a real skill they can use to stay off benefits.

When it comes to yobs there are two levels really, the hard core criminals and the hangers on who just follow them around like sheep because no one has ever pointed them in a different direction. I know it wouldn’t work for all of them but if you managed to get through to a few of these hangers on then it would be worth it. It might also catch on that it was worth while option.

Last night I watched the documentary about the real James Bond villain Goldfinger and how MI5 was started with the help of the criminal element. Many of the petty criminals who burgle and hack into computers could be recruited into the intelligence services. They already have many of the skills they need and they might find working for the military a more attractive option to an over crowded jail. It would save the government millions and provide valuable talent.

But I am sure it would be in court in a heart beat because it's their human rights to be lazy and on benefits.......

[GMR]

A good point; their "Human Rights" would put an end to any attempt by the government in using national service as a means of discipline.