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> Sod it - I'm going to take action
Iommi
post Jun 28 2009, 08:37 AM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Jun 27 2009, 10:36 PM) *
The Thatcher government started off ok and brought some good laws in and they were tough on crime, however, when Thatcher run out of ideas she should have gone in 1987. Major was a hostage to fortune and was in a very weak position. However, no matter how bad they were they could never compare to the Blair/ Brown years, which were a total disaster.

Are not the children of the 80s now the parents of today? I don't know that there is any specific law change that has resulted in youths being 'permitted' to commit crime. It is claimed the Thatcher Government were tough on crime, if this worked, I wonder why subsequent Governments went 'soft' on crime.
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JeffG
post Jun 28 2009, 08:54 AM
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Thatcher created the "me first" ethos, which has a lot to do with the degeneration of society (which didn't exist, according to Thatcher).
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Iommi
post Jun 28 2009, 09:01 AM
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QUOTE (JeffG @ Jun 28 2009, 09:54 AM) *
Thatcher created the "me first" ethos, which has a lot to do with the degeneration of society (which didn't exist, according to Thatcher).

I'm not sure that is true, perhaps it would be better to describe the policy of paving the way for people to become more prosperous and by definition appear selfish. I'm not convinced about her contribution about the degeneration of society, I remember what it was like in the 70s and it wasn't that good then either.
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JeffG
post Jun 28 2009, 09:33 AM
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QUOTE (Iommi @ Jun 28 2009, 10:01 AM) *
I'm not sure that is true, perhaps it would be better to describe the policy of paving the way for people to become more prosperous and by definition appear selfish. I'm not convinced about her contribution about the degeneration of society, I remember what it was like in the 70s and it wasn't that good then either.

I don't agree that prosperous = selfish, which is what you seem to be saying. I am all for prosperity, and I like to think that the majority of people, prosperous or not, still have consideration for people other than themselves. Thatcher's statement that "there is no such thing as society" encouraged the opposite. I am firmly of the belief that things really started to go downhill around that time.

Yes, there were some good things, like curbing the power of the unions. Actually, I'm not sure who I dislike more: Thatcher or Arthur Scargill smile.gif
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Iommi
post Jun 28 2009, 10:07 AM
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QUOTE (JeffG @ Jun 28 2009, 10:33 AM) *
I don't agree that prosperous = selfish, which is what you seem to be saying.

What I said was prosperity can appear selfish. As you become prosperous, you get bigger houses, cars and one becomes more protective of their wealth. This could be demonstrated through people buying houses and then encapsulating themselves with what suits them best, regardless of their neighbour.

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jun 28 2009, 10:33 AM) *
I am all for prosperity, and I like to think that the majority of people, prosperous or not, still have consideration for people other than themselves.

I would as well, but often when people do things like vote, they are thinking of themselves first.

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jun 28 2009, 10:33 AM) *
Thatcher's statement that "there is no such thing as society" encouraged the opposite. I am firmly of the belief that things really started to go downhill around that time.

That phrase, I think, has been misinterpreted. The purpose of the passage was to explain that people need to take responsibility for them selves and stop expecting the the state (the state is created by society) to bail themselves out. It was never meant to say go and get everything you can.

Here's the section I mean...

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation." Margaret Thatcher, October 31 1987.

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jun 28 2009, 10:33 AM) *
Yes, there were some good things, like curbing the power of the unions. Actually, I'm not sure who I dislike more: Thatcher or Arthur Scargill smile.gif

I know what you mean.
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GMR
post Jun 28 2009, 10:36 AM
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QUOTE (JeffG @ Jun 28 2009, 09:54 AM) *
Thatcher created the "me first" ethos, which has a lot to do with the degeneration of society (which didn't exist, according to Thatcher).



Thatcher didn't create it, the people did themselves. She just gave people the opportunity... what they did with that opportunity was down to them.
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Guest_Bill1_*
post Jun 28 2009, 10:38 AM
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She was known as Milk Snatcher in the mid 70's when she stopped free school milk and that should have been enough to put everyone off!


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GMR
post Jun 28 2009, 10:47 AM
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QUOTE (Bill1 @ Jun 28 2009, 11:38 AM) *
She was known as Milk Snatcher in the mid 70's when she stopped free school milk and that should have been enough to put everyone off!



Yes, I remember that.... but it didn't put anybody off as she became the longest serving Prime Minister since Lord Liverpool in the 1800's. I wouldn't actually call that putting people off. The reason she was popular because people were pleased she was doing something that the previous governments only talked about.
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Guest_Bill1_*
post Jun 28 2009, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Jun 28 2009, 11:47 AM) *
Yes, I remember that.... but it didn't put anybody off as she became the longest serving Prime Minister since Lord Liverpool in the 1800's. I wouldn't actually call that putting people off. The reason she was popular because people were pleased she was doing something that the previous governments only talked about.



She put me off and many others I know.

Winning a war in 1982 helped. (Who knew of the Falklands before then?) "Rejoice Rejoice" Eh Maggie?

Then there was the Poll Tax angry.gif angry.gif angry.gif
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GMR
post Jun 28 2009, 01:31 PM
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QUOTE (Bill1 @ Jun 28 2009, 01:03 PM) *
She put me off and many others I know.

Winning a war in 1982 helped. (Who knew of the Falklands before then?) "Rejoice Rejoice" Eh Maggie?

Then there was the Poll Tax angry.gif angry.gif angry.gif



Winning the war helped, as you say, but also beating the unions also helped.

The poll tax and Europe was her down fall.
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