The Vision Options

[On the edge]

Exactly! WBC is simply too small to provide any significant capital projects. Bring back Berks CC!

Well, you've convinced me at least!

[dannyboy]

Local philanthropy is well and truly with us - especially philanthropic donations by WBC to developers.

Do you know something we don't?

[blackdog]

Do you know something we don't?

Only if you are unaware that WBC donated land in and off Park Way to SLI for £1 and are proposing to hand over a couple of acres worth £3.9m to the Market St 'urban village' developers for £0.

The point I was trying to make was that they could alternatively have held on to the freehold of this land by handing it over to the developers on a long lease at a peppercorn rent (eg £1 a year for 99 years) - which would have had the same effect of promoting development but would have maintained the public ownership of the land hence giving WBC and its successors much, much more power over future usage of this land in the centre of town.

At least WBC seem to be getting the message that giving land to developers is not popular with the electorate and are now talking about getting a satisfactory monetary return for the land they propose to hand over to developers in Faraday Road.

[dannyboy]

Only if you are unaware that WBC donated land in and off Park Way to SLI for £1 and are proposing to hand over a couple of acres worth £3.9m to the Market St 'urban village' developers for £0.

The point I was trying to make was that they could alternatively have held on to the freehold of this land by handing it over to the developers on a long lease at a peppercorn rent (eg £1 a year for 99 years) - which would have had the same effect of promoting development but would have maintained the public ownership of the land hence giving WBC and its successors much, much more power over future usage of this land in the centre of town.

At least WBC seem to be getting the message that giving land to developers is not popular with the electorate and are now talking about getting a satisfactory monetary return for the land they propose to hand over to developers in Faraday Road.

What developmer is going to spend £100s millions building something which they don' own? Would you buy a leasehold house?

WBC are using the value of the land as their investment in these projects.

[Ron]

What developmer is going to spend £100s millions building something which they don' own? Would you buy a leasehold house?

WBC are using the value of the land as their investment in these projects.

In some parts of the country lease hold is the only option.

[On the edge]

What developmer is going to spend £100s millions building something which they don' own? Would you buy a leasehold house?

WBC are using the value of the land as their investment in these projects.

Leasehold house? My brother lives in one, Mayfair to be specific; makes Newbury freehold prices look like loose change.

Interesting radio programme last week on Radio 4 about this very subject. WBC aren't alone and the 'giving away land' isn't a new or innovative idea. Several other authorities have already done so or are doing so at moment. Seemed like a good idea, but not working in practice; oh what a surprise! Ptrogramme concluded by saying this could work, but Local Authorities have lost the resource skills and expertise to manage and implement these projects successfully.

[dannyboy]

In some parts of the country lease hold is the only option.

That wasn't the question. Would you want one?

[dannyboy]

Leasehold house? My brother lives in one, Mayfair to be specific; makes Newbury freehold prices look like loose change.

Interesting radio programme last week on Radio 4 about this very subject. WBC aren't alone and the 'giving away land' isn't a new or innovative idea. Several other authorities have already done so or are doing so at moment. Seemed like a good idea, but not working in practice; oh what a surprise! Ptrogramme concluded by saying this could work, but Local Authorities have lost the resource skills and expertise to manage and implement these projects successfully.

LA don't need the resource skills. That is the developer's job.

[Andy Capp]

That wasn't the question. Would you want one?

An individuals needs are likely to be different to a corporate one, so it is an unfair question.

[Andy Capp]

My point is: what do we do when we have sold all the land, what then? Parkway seemingly demonstrates the power private landlords have over councils (cinema, parking charges, cracks), is that what we want and need more of?

[dannyboy]

My point is: what do we do when we have sold all the land, what then? Parkway seemingly demonstrates the power private landlords have over councils (cinema, parking charges, cracks), is that what we want and need more of?

I guess it depends on whether you want stuff now funded largely by private cash or whether you want stuff done only when the council can afford it paid for by taxation.

[On the edge]

LA don't need the resource skills. That is the developer's job.

Quite so, but the programme was making the point that LA staff (their resource) have NO suitable skills. Take WBC we've demonstrable evidence that contract management isn't best of breed and that's just one necessary skill.

[On the edge]

That wasn't the question. Would you want one?

Yes!

It's a pretty dumb question because the answer will depend on many other factors. Investing in things you don't own is often called 'commerce' - didn't you realise that most big firms don't actually own their equipment, vehicles and in many cases, premises.

I had a shop on a full repairing lease some years back. We paid for a new roof - still made a good return.

[dannyboy]

Yes!

It's a pretty dumb question because the answer will depend on many other factors. Investing in things you don't own is often called 'commerce' - didn't you realise that most big firms don't actually own their equipment, vehicles and in many cases, premises.

I had a shop on a full repairing lease some years back. We paid for a new roof - still made a good return.

I'll take that as a no you wouldnt'.

Companies which lease equipment are not investing in said equipment. They are leasing it. Normally beacuse they can't afford it upfront. It also gets you more for the same amount on the balance sheet.

A bit like getting a PFI firm to build you a hospital. You can build & run one for £300 million, or have Bovis/Laing/Uncle Tom Cobbley build you ten at £30 million pa.

Sounds better too - we have built 10 new hospitals this year alone......

[dannyboy]

I had a shop on a full repairing lease some years back. We paid for a new roof - still made a good return.

But just think if you'd been able to buy the shop instead.

[On the edge]

I'll take that as a no you wouldnt'.

Companies which lease equipment are not investing in said equipment. They are leasing it. Normally beacuse they can't afford it upfront. It also gets you more for the same amount on the balance sheet.

A bit like getting a PFI firm to build you a hospital. You can build & run one for £300 million, or have Bovis/Laing/Uncle Tom Cobbley build you ten at £30 million pa.

Sounds better too - we have built 10 new hospitals this year alone......

Of course, in the building my firm leases we don't pay £200 to get a light bulb changed. Then again we haven't signed a complex unenforceable contract dreamed up by a civil servant trying to be clever.

[On the edge]

But just think if you'd been able to buy the shop instead.

I made even more investing my meagre capital elsewhere! Did you realise most of the shops in Newbury are leasehold?

[dannyboy]

I made even more investing my meagre capital elsewhere! Did you realise most of the shops in Newbury are leasehold?

Err, yes.

[dannyboy]

Of course, in the building my firm leases we don't pay £200 to get a light bulb changed. Then again we haven't signed a complex unenforceable contract dreamed up by a civil servant trying to be clever.

I do hope you carry out a full risk assesment before doing any working at height maintenance.

[On the edge]

I do hope you carry out a full risk assesment before doing any working at height maintenance.

Of course, save we do that automatically on any job; old maxim 'measure twice, cut once' . Only real difference we don't see the need to write it down or have inspectors. We actually trust our staff to do jobs properly; they've not let us down yet.