Question: how does WBC save money gritting primary roads? Options

[Andy Capp]

Declassify primary roads of course!

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/home/19...his-winter.html

[spartacus]

The article mentions 'Another change to the winter service plan is the transfer of responsibility of some salt bins to town and parish councils'. That 'news' must be about three years old isn't it? Talk about regurgitating old news to make it sound worse than it actually is.

Personally I think it's about bloody time that Councils all across the country really slashed their gritting (or more accurately salting) programmes as the environmental impact is enormous and their action plans are brought into effect at such a low threshold when there is very little hazard from cold weather. Drivers in countries such as a Holland, Germany and Belgium I'm sure are amazed at the amount of effort and cost that goes into clearing our roads when more of the responsibility for changing driver behaviour in poor weather conditions should be on the shoulders of drivers behind the wheel. No wonder the country grinds to a halt with the first few flecks of snow...people are never forced to change their behaviour as they always expect there to be clear roads.

In Germany you should have winter tyres fitted if you are driving in bad winter conditions. They don't grit or salt their roads to the levels we do and so you do see a change in driving patterns when winter takes a grip. Here you get people rattling about in winter at the same speeds as they do in summer, with the same bald tyres, who act surprised when they lose grip. Do the same in Germany and your insurance company will hold you responsible, not the council.

[spartacus]

Declassify primary roads of course!

Charnham Park in Hungerford and Station Road in Speen are hardly what I would call 'Primary Roads' imho ...

[Andy Capp]

Charnham Park in Hungerford and Station Road in Speen are hardly what I would call 'Primary Roads' imho ...

Then why are they on the list in the first place?

What is the criteria for primary road status?

[Andy Capp]

The article mentions 'Another change to the winter service plan is the transfer of responsibility of some salt bins to town and parish councils'. That 'news' must be about three years old isn't it? Talk about regurgitating old news to make it sound worse than it actually is.

Its was recently debated in council, even if it is old news.

Personally I think it's about bloody time that Councils all across the country really slashed their gritting (or more accurately salting) programmes as the environmental impact is enormous and their action plans are brought into effect at such a low threshold when there is very little hazard from cold weather. Drivers in countries such as a Holland, Germany and Belgium I'm sure are amazed at the amount of effort and cost that goes into clearing our roads when more of the responsibility for changing driver behaviour in poor weather conditions should be on the shoulders of drivers behind the wheel. No wonder the country grinds to a halt with the first few flecks of snow...people are never forced to change their behaviour as they always expect there to be clear roads.

In Germany you should have winter tyres fitted if you are driving in bad winter conditions. They don't grit or salt their roads to the levels we do and so you do see a change in driving patterns when winter takes a grip. Here you get people rattling about in winter at the same speeds as they do in summer, with the same bald tyres, who act surprised when they lose grip. Do the same in Germany and your insurance company will hold you responsible, not the council.

What is the environmental impact of everyone having two sets of tyres, one pair which offers poorer fuel economy?

[je suis Charlie]

Its was recently debated in council, even if it is old news.


What is the environmental impact of everyone having two sets of tyres, one pair which offers poorer fuel economy?

And what cost all the salting? And what about losses to the economy due to drivers not being able to complete journeys? And what about the reduction in accidents? And, in snow or bad weather which is more efficient, a care that's grips, or one that spins its wheels all the time?. Winter tyres. Way to go, no doubt.

[On the edge]

Its was recently debated in council, even if it is old news.


What is the environmental impact of everyone having two sets of tyres, one pair which offers poorer fuel economy?

Good questions, and like this particular solution illustrates what's wrong with our local governance, ready, fire, aim. Personally, I agree with what Spartacus and you are saying; we do need rather more analysis. Again, demonstrating that we would be better off having services managed and delivered by much larger professional agencies.

[Biker1]

The article mentions 'Another change to the winter service plan is the transfer of responsibility of some salt bins to town and parish councils'. That 'news' must be about three years old isn't it? Talk about regurgitating old news to make it sound worse than it actually is.

Personally I think it's about bloody time that Councils all across the country really slashed their gritting (or more accurately salting) programmes as the environmental impact is enormous and their action plans are brought into effect at such a low threshold when there is very little hazard from cold weather. Drivers in countries such as a Holland, Germany and Belgium I'm sure are amazed at the amount of effort and cost that goes into clearing our roads when more of the responsibility for changing driver behaviour in poor weather conditions should be on the shoulders of drivers behind the wheel. No wonder the country grinds to a halt with the first few flecks of snow...people are never forced to change their behaviour as they always expect there to be clear roads.

In Germany you should have winter tyres fitted if you are driving in bad winter conditions. They don't grit or salt their roads to the levels we do and so you do see a change in driving patterns when winter takes a grip. Here you get people rattling about in winter at the same speeds as they do in summer, with the same bald tyres, who act surprised when they lose grip. Do the same in Germany and your insurance company will hold you responsible, not the council.

Absolutely.
Couldn't have put it better myself!

[Andy Capp]

All this is fine, but the original point was why a route was a primary route, then it is not. It also seems to me foolish to remove services that have a safety aspect before legislation has been changed. I understand we don't have as harsh winters as places like Germany and winter tyres loose grip when it gets warmer, not to mention less fuel efficient.

[user23]

All this is fine, but the original point was why a route was a primary route, then it is not. It also seems to me foolish to remove services that have a safety aspect before legislation has been changed.

You don't need legislation to enable you to do this.

Looks like at least one supplier in Newbury offers them.

[Turin Machine]

And who wouldn't wish to be safer on winter roads by doing so?

[On the edge]

All this is fine, but the original point was why a route was a primary route, then it is not. It also seems to me foolish to remove services that have a safety aspect before legislation has been changed. I understand we don't have as harsh winters as places like Germany and winter tyres loose grip when it gets warmer, not to mention less fuel efficient.

Yes, that's quite right. Yet again, we've just jumped in and cut back the service and yes, the roads will be more dangerous when it freezes. Right now, in our Councillors view we cannot afford to do anything else. Choices have to be made; let's just be honest about it. Of course, we ought to have been looking at better solutions well before this, but we haven't. Of course, if we are wealthy enough we can buy some winter tyres etc. So, right now, it comes down to which essentials can be trimmed instead; surely Mayor making, extra flag poles, splash pads and dump passes are rather more critical to our well being.

[Andy Capp]

You don't need legislation to enable you to do this.

Looks like at least one supplier in Newbury offers them.

I don't need legislation, but the berk who drives into the back of me might! At the end of the day, a route is primary or not. If it isn't then perhaps the enforced cut back is just what the council needed to buck their 'profligate' ideas up! Meanwhile, only 7 months until we can think about using the splash pad.

[Cognosco]

I don't need legislation, but the berk who drives into the back of me might! At the end of the day, a route is primary or not. If it isn't then perhaps the enforced cut back is just what the council needed to buck their 'profligate' ideas up! Meanwhile, only 7 months until we can think about using the splash pad.

Probably only if they can make some more cuts to the Newbury vulnerable to afford the water bill?

[spartacus]

Then why are they on the list in the first place?

In the bygone days of excess, when we had a mountain of salt stored away, we could afford to chuck it around willy nilly and class every road as primary. Times are tighter and that's resulted in priorities being reassessed.

I understand we don't have as harsh winters as places like Germany and winter tyres loose grip when it gets warmer, not to mention less fuel efficient.

This isn't a law that's restricted to the frozen old East Germany or the upper reaches of the Bavarian Alps. Cities such as Koln and Dusseldorf and Frankfurt are not much different from much of UK, especially up t'north and drivers in those cities/districts have to comply just as much as those germans living in the frozen bits. And if any government in Europe has strong Green credentials it's Germany, so they would have analysed the pros and cons of their whole population having winter tyres and the environmental impact (not to mention fuel efficiency of the cars on their networks)

[user23]

I don't need legislation...

A common sentiment, "My driving's fine, it's everyone else's that's the problem".

[Andy Capp]

A common sentiment, "My driving's fine, it's everyone else's that's the problem".

I was illustrating a point that following good practice doesn't mean others will.

[Andy Capp]

And if any government in Europe has strong Green credentials it's Germany, so they would have analysed the pros and cons of their whole population having winter tyres and the environmental impact (not to mention fuel efficiency of the cars on their networks)

Which explains their tight control of the emissions from the cars they made!

[Turin Machine]

Which explains their tight control of the emissions from the cars they made!

Which are better or worse than whose?

[Andy Capp]

Which are better or worse than whose?

In the context of the argument, it is irrelevant.