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> Remember the sacrifice.
je suis Charlie
post Nov 9 2018, 05:07 PM
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I hope you will all take time to bow your heads on Sunday. Meanwhile this is worth reading;

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/here...-poppy-13562326
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Turin Machine
post Nov 9 2018, 06:11 PM
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Good article here from the beeb.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46124467


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SirWilliam
post Nov 9 2018, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 9 2018, 05:07 PM) *
I hope you will all take time to bow your heads on Sunday. Meanwhile this is worth reading;

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/here...-poppy-13562326


Extremely humbling. There are those who would have us abolish remembrance day on some premise that I would not waste my time enquiring but to many it epitomises man's inhumanity to his fellow man and to that end I will always observe the day and honour those who fell for no other reason than they were born at the wrong time.
The second WW claimed four times as many lives but it is always the Great War that claims the media interest for the surmisable reason, I guess, that it was the first major conflict that had film footage to record the carnage.


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SirWilliam
post Nov 9 2018, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 9 2018, 06:11 PM) *
Good article here from the beeb.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46124467


Yes,but; and it is a measured but, these were inhabitants of India and their religious leanings were of no interest to the recruitment brigade only that they would fight. I salute them along with the rest but I am uneasy about using it as a means to integration.


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Strafin
post Nov 12 2018, 09:37 AM
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I have been quite annoyed about the whole thing this year. It seems to have become a competition as to who can "OUT-REMEMBERANCE" each other. The poppy appeal and remembrance are two different things and seem to have been lumped in together, social media has been alight with everyones photos of themselves doing things. It's like comic relief, and for me it should be humble, and quiet. I can totally understand why some people are saying it's glorifying war, although I don't think it is, but it's about glorifying individuals now remembering the way. I even saw a competition where you could "win" a place at the front of a parade in London. My local town facebook page is awash with people sharing videos of their offspring singing amazing grace and other unrelated songs as part of the ceremony and it all just seems wrong to me.
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SirWilliam
post Nov 12 2018, 11:37 AM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Nov 12 2018, 09:37 AM) *
I have been quite annoyed about the whole thing this year. It seems to have become a competition as to who can "OUT-REMEMBERANCE" each other. The poppy appeal and remembrance are two different things and seem to have been lumped in together, social media has been alight with everyones photos of themselves doing things. It's like comic relief, and for me it should be humble, and quiet. I can totally understand why some people are saying it's glorifying war, although I don't think it is, but it's about glorifying individuals now remembering the way. I even saw a competition where you could "win" a place at the front of a parade in London. My local town facebook page is awash with people sharing videos of their offspring singing amazing grace and other unrelated songs as part of the ceremony and it all just seems wrong to me.


Though I have not personally witnessed your observation I do agree wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment. No one wants to go to war let alone get killed for their troubles but they went and the (free) world we have is down to them, so we remember solemnly for a short time once a year. The fact that some seem to view it with a degree of levity may be down to the lack of history being taught in schools.


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newres
post Nov 12 2018, 06:34 PM
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Until recently I wore a red poppy and attended every remembrance parade. I no longer wear one nor attend the parade. For me its become politicised and was seen as supporting the Iraq and Afghanistan wars by me and I hated the mawkishness that arose recently.

But I adhered the two minute silence twice and was tearful at the last post as I listened on the radio. I dont feel the need to display my remembrance publicly.

My great grandad died at Gallipoli and we have some amazing items and my cousin recently we believe identified his final resting place.

Incidentally, whos trying to ban Remembrance Day? Is it the same ficticious bloke that says poppies are racist?
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SirWilliam
post Nov 12 2018, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Nov 12 2018, 06:34 PM) *
Until recently I wore a red poppy and attended every remembrance parade. I no longer wear one nor attend the parade. For me its become politicised and was seen as supporting the Iraq and Afghanistan wars by me and I hated the mawkishness that arose recently.

But I adhered the two minute silence twice and was tearful at the last post as I listened on the radio. I dont feel the need to display my remembrance publicly.

My great grandad died at Gallipoli and we have some amazing items and my cousin recently we believe identified his final resting place.

Incidentally, whos trying to ban Remembrance Day? Is it the same ficticious bloke that says poppies are racist?


You are quite correct in your inference that one does not have to join the hordes to show respect. We all have differing recollections of past conflicts and it is right that we are allowed to reflect privately if we so wish.

I trust everyone watched the BBC2 programme "They Shall Not Grow Old" aired yesterday evening. It dispelled a few myths and shed light on how the "Tommy" adapted to the front line.


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Turin Machine
post Nov 12 2018, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Nov 12 2018, 06:34 PM) *
Incidentally, whos trying to ban Remembrance Day? Is it the same ficticious bloke that says poppies are racist?

You mean Aaron Bastani, The owner of left-wing website Novara Media who posted a video to the page's 25,000 YouTube subscribers just days before Remembrance Day.

In the video, he said We all know about the poppy appeal. Its something that is a bit of a joke for people on the left.

He also said I feel the poppy appeal is grotesque. I think it has triumphalist militarism to it, which, A, doesnt really fit with Britains military position in the world anymore. And B, its racist, right? Its white supremacists - I think.. He went on to mock a man who built a World War One trench in his garden.

Mr Bastani said Were going to start with a man who has literally reconstructed a World War One trench in his front garden - and it is of course, on a housing estate.

The only thing that is missing is chlorine gas. What a f****** muppet.

That fictitious bloke?


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newres
post Nov 12 2018, 07:15 PM
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Incidentally, and I know this will be controversial, wtf was that child's poem that was chosen? It had a line like "warm comfy grave" in it?? Sorry, but no 19 year old's grave on is warm and comfy. I thought all that Rupert Brooke/Kipling style idealised ***** was gone forever. I couldn't quite believe it.
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Turin Machine
post Nov 12 2018, 07:15 PM
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Or maybe you were thinking about Robert Fisk who wrote last week : "The poppy has become a symbol of racism I will never wear one again" in the independent. That "fictitious bloke" maybe.


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newres
post Nov 12 2018, 07:52 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 12 2018, 07:15 PM) *
Or maybe you were thinking about Robert Fisk who wrote last week : "The poppy has become a symbol of racism I will never wear one again" in the independent. That "fictitious bloke" maybe.

Ok. Just read that. Youve taken the sentence out of context and actually youve taken it out of the sentence because he directly refers to Blair and Iraq in the full sentence. Of course the poppy isnt a racist symbol, but it has become a nationalist symbol and cause.
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SirWilliam
post Nov 13 2018, 11:26 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Nov 12 2018, 07:52 PM) *
Ok. Just read that. Youve taken the sentence out of context and actually youve taken it out of the sentence because he directly refers to Blair and Iraq in the full sentence. Of course the poppy isnt a racist symbol, but it has become a nationalist symbol and cause.


Or to put another way politicians start wars, the proletariat fight them, and then the politicians return to accept the adoration of a grateful nation. Little wonder an air of cynicism prevails.


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newres
post Nov 13 2018, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 12 2018, 07:11 PM) *
You mean Aaron Bastani, The owner of left-wing website Novara Media who posted a video to the page's 25,000 YouTube subscribers just days before Remembrance Day.

In the video, he said We all know about the poppy appeal. Its something that is a bit of a joke for people on the left.

He also said I feel the poppy appeal is grotesque. I think it has triumphalist militarism to it, which, A, doesnt really fit with Britains military position in the world anymore. And B, its racist, right? Its white supremacists - I think.. He went on to mock a man who built a World War One trench in his garden.

Mr Bastani said Were going to start with a man who has literally reconstructed a World War One trench in his front garden - and it is of course, on a housing estate.

The only thing that is missing is chlorine gas. What a f****** muppet.

That fictitious bloke?

25,000 subscribers is tiny. I havent seen a direct link to what hes posted but there will always be odd people and hes hardly representative of anyone. I agree with some of his comments about not using the millions the British Legion are sat on.

If I read the papers you read I think Id be angry all the time too incidentally.

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je suis Charlie
post Nov 13 2018, 09:37 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Nov 13 2018, 07:54 PM) *
25,000 subscribers is tiny. I havent seen a direct link to what hes posted but there will always be odd people and hes hardly representative of anyone. I agree with some of his comments about not using the millions the British Legion are sat on.

If I read the papers you read I think Id be angry all the time too incidentally.

You must mean every paper except the Guardian then. Anyway you said he was fictitious, except your Literature degree failed again and you spelt that wrong as well!

Aaron Bastani is a PhD candidate at Royal Holloway University and a student activist. He co-edited Fightback! and blogs at Open Democracy and Radical Dandy as well as his channel he's also a writer and critic for the Guardian (where else) and is regarded widely as one of Corbyns 'attack dogs'. So he appears to be fairly representative of Labour.
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Turin Machine
post Nov 13 2018, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 13 2018, 09:37 PM) *
You must mean every paper except the Guardian then. Anyway you said he was fictitious, except your Literature degree failed again and you spelt that wrong as well!

Aaron Bastani is a PhD candidate at Royal Holloway University and a student activist. He co-edited Fightback! and blogs at Open Democracy and Radical Dandy as well as his channel he's also a writer and critic for the Guardian (where else) and is regarded widely as one of Corbyns 'attack dogs'. So he appears to be fairly representative of Labour.

It's been reported widely, as has the backlash. I've read some of his other stuff and a lot of it is offensive, apparently he tried to lay the blame for Salisbury on the Israelis. Why does that not surprise me?


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newres
post Nov 14 2018, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 13 2018, 09:54 PM) *
It's been reported widely, as has the backlash. I've read some of his other stuff and a lot of it is offensive, apparently he tried to lay the blame for Salisbury on the Israelis. Why does that not surprise me?

Hes just some bloke though. Like you or me. Why is what he says of interest? Why does it anger the gammon? Hes no one. Him being a Labour Party member is of no more significance than what football team he supports. I dont start making ridiculous claims about Boris Johnson because some Tory party members burnt a model Grenfell Tower. Its idiotic. Youre being managed and manipulated.
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Turin Machine
post Nov 14 2018, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Nov 14 2018, 07:28 PM) *
Hes just some bloke though. Like you or me. Why is what he says of interest? Why does it anger the gammon? Hes no one. Him being a Labour Party member is of no more significance than what football team he supports. I dont start making ridiculous claims about Boris Johnson because some Tory party members burnt a model Grenfell Tower. Its idiotic. Youre being managed and manipulated.

You're the one said he was 'fictional'. Not me.


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je suis Charlie
post Nov 14 2018, 09:34 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Nov 14 2018, 07:28 PM) *
Hes just some bloke though. Like you or me. Why is what he says of interest? Why does it anger the gammon? Hes no one. Him being a Labour Party member is of no more significance than what football team he supports. I dont start making ridiculous claims about Boris Johnson because some Tory party members burnt a model Grenfell Tower. Its idiotic. Youre being managed and manipulated.

You're right son, he is a nobody, he supports Corbyn which makes him a sad loser, and he writes for the Guardian which is a rag pretty much ignored. Sad little whining lefty loser with a big mouth and no talent. Bit like you really.
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newres
post Nov 14 2018, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 14 2018, 08:12 PM) *
You're the one said he was 'fictional'. Not me.

It was in response to someone saying they want Remembernce Sunday banned. I actually didnt have anyone in mind.
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