Newbury Town Council's £8,000.00 allotment bill!, And he still hasn't been properly evicted!!! Options

[Andy Capp]

Does he seriously not have anything else to do

I think it is his business, and not yours.

why is he trying to give people who rent allotments a bad name. I hope they increase it by 500% next time.

Why would you want to hurt other allotmenteers so? People which include pensioners?

What a complete waste of his and everyone everyone elses time.

Exactly, why can't the council evict him?

[user23]

This isn't about £20.00, and everyone has their own issues, so do one.

"Do one" suggests you'd like him to go away.

Surely if he doesn't support Simon's campaign to save himself £20 a year, he's just as entitled to air his views as those that do?

[Andy Capp]

"Do one" suggests you'd like him to go away.

Surely if he doesn't support Simon's campaign to save himself £20 a year, he's just as entitled to air his views as those that do?

He is, except his argument is ill-researched. This isn't exclusively about £20.00. Also, his manners against other forum members is questionable. I'm happy for him to be against Simon Kirby, Simon is costing the council £8,000.00 and counting. What is the problem with the council? Competence?

Oh, and by the way, just to debunk your assertion that this is about Simon saving himself £20.00, Simon has already spent £500.00 of his own money on the affair. So it is more than just about money.

[andy1979uk]

He is, except his argument is ill-researched. This isn't exclusively about £20.00. Also, his manners against other forum members is questionable.


I'm happy for him to be against Simon Kirby, Simon is costing the council £8,000.00 and counting. What is the problem with the council? Competence?

I am against Simon, am not saying the council have behaved correctly either. The fact remains that the allotments still remain very very good value for money. In my opinion there are better things to spend time on than argue over £20.

I also disagree with the way Simon is trying to play the victim, its all basicly playground games and I don't have the time for it.

[Andy Capp]

I am against Simon, am not saying the council have behaved correctly either. The fact remains that the allotments still remain very very good value for money. In my opinion there are better things to spend time on than argue over £20.

How many times do I have to say that this is not just about £20.00 before you acknowledge it?

I also disagree with the way Simon is trying to play the victim, its all basic playground games and I don't have the time for it.

Why post then?


What you haven't heard is allegations of local councillor(s) conspiring to undermine allotment democracy when Simon and others tried to start an allotment association. Also, Simon has alleged that the council have victimised an allotment holder(s).

Our council cost many of us several thousands of pounds a year, yet they seem to lack basic competence. If Simon is in arrears, sue him for heavens sake. Like I said, this affair has cost the tax payer £8,000.00 (not taking into account officer time) and counting. Why not take him to a small claims court or something.

The fact they can't or won't, suggests Simon has a point.

[andy1979uk]

How many times do I have to say that this is not just about £20.00 before you acknowledge it?


Why post then?


What you haven't heard is allegations of local councillor(s) conspiring to undermine allotment democracy when Simon and others tried to start an allotment association. Our council cost many of us several thousands of pounds a year, yet they seem to lack basic competence. If Simon is in arrears, sue him for heavens sake. The fact they can't or won't, suggests Simon has a point.

but why bother ? It is over £20, if the rent had not gone up none of this would have happened. I imagine every other person who rents a plot has just paid it and carried on with their lives, but there is always one who wants to make life difficult for himself.

[Andy Capp]

but why bother ? It is over £20, if the rent had not gone up none of this would have happened.

Not true, he and others on his allotment have had run-ins with the council who have behaved questionably.

I imagine every other person who rents a plot has just paid it and carried on with their lives, but there is always one who wants to make life difficult for himself.

Then that is up to him is it not? Why should the council spend £8,000.00 of tax payers money on this and still not have it resolved. What is their problem? Like you said, it is over £20.00; let him off. That'd be cheaper.

[Penelope]

Does he seriously not have anything else to do, why is he trying to give people who rent allotments a bad name. I hope they increase it by 500% next time. What a complete waste of his and everyone everyone elses time.

Vexatious complaint ?

[Andy Capp]

Vexatious complaint ?

That accusation was made by the council, but it is not clear to me what the criteria is to become one.

[Simon Kirby]

So you would happily pay another 47% on your council tax, rent or anything else without questioning it? You are happy for the council to break the law, so long as it is someone else on the receiving end? And you are happy that the council are trying to cover up the whole fiasco, thus far unsuccessfully, at huge costs to the taxpayer, rather than admit that they have made a mistake? Simon is fighting for us all, to try and keep our society just and fair, albeit in a small way.

Thanks Strafin.

[Andy Capp]

Thanks Strafin.

Yes, I think Strafin made the point well. The point is, today it is you; tomorrow it could be someone else. Assuming you are in the right of course.

[Simon Kirby]

Yes, I think Strafin made the point well. The point is, today it is you; tomorrow it could be someone else. Assuming you are in the right of course.

I believe that the issues are just as important if it turns out that I was wrong.

Say I was wrong about the fairness of the rent review term. Is it just that I should have to risk my tenancy in order to make an honest but ultimately misguided complaint about the fairness of the tenancy agreement? It was a well-founded complaint made in good faith as chair of the allotment society out of concern for the treatment of my fellow allotmenteers, wouldn't it have been better for the Council to sit down with the society and discuss the issue rationally rather than blank us and force us to take the complaint to Trading Standards and provoke me to make a personal stand?

And more seriously, having made the decision to evict me on 12 April 2010, how can the Council have made such a poor job of evicting me when eviction for arrears is a simple legal process - the Council have evicted Gypsies from their land twice to my knowledge in under 24 hours from encampment to departure and the legal process for Gypsies is actually more complicated because if the need for the court and police to consider the welfare of the children. If the Council do indeed have grounds to evict then they have been utterly incompetent to run up a bill of £8,000 and still be no closer to evicting me.

The Council need to apply for a possession order, and they need to release the meeting minutes so that I have my opportunity to challenge the lawfullness of that, and they need to do that without further delay. Of course if they want to let me sign the new agreement we can also end the dispute that way if it's easier for them.

[Andy Capp]

One problem you have, as far as I can tell, is that some of your approach lacks tact, and even if you are right and the council are wrong, you should still communicate with them in a courteous manner. They are people too, and if someone were to talk to you in the way you have done, I am sure you would be reluctant to be as helpful as you otherwise might. It doesn't excuse them, but you have not helped get this sorted.

I do, however, admire your tenacity. I too once had a similar dispute where I wouldn't let go. It made me feel better to some degree, but they have the luxury of obfuscation (time and money).

[andy1979uk]

One problem you have, as far as I can tell, is that some of your approach lacks tact, and even if you are right and the council are wrong, you should still communicate with them in a courteous manner. They are people too, and if someone were to talk to you in the way you have done, I am sure you would be reluctant to be as helpful as you otherwise might. It doesn't excuse them, but you have not helped get this sorted.

I do, however, admire your tenacity. I too once had a similar dispute where I wouldn't let go. It made me feel better to some degree, but they have the luxury of obfuscation (time and money).

I would assumbe you are happy that they have wasted £8000 due to the fact you are moaning about £20? If this is the only thing you have to complain about then I honestly have pity for you, there are people in the world with far greater issues that a £20 allotment rise.

[Andy Capp]

I would assume you are happy that they have wasted £8000 due to the fact you are moaning about £20? If this is the only thing you have to complain about then I honestly have pity for you, there are people in the world with far greater issues that a £20 allotment wise.

You are absolutely correct about the last bit, although you seem blind to the real argument here, but I am not happy that the council cannot resolve this properly. I think they have handled this badly and I expect better from our councillors.

[andy1979uk]

You are absolutely correct about the last bit, although you seem blind to the real argument here, but I am not happy that the council cannot resolve this properly. I think they have handled this badly and I expect better from our councillors.

He's saying its not about the increase, but it is really. He spotted something where they have not acted by the letter and decided to be a stick in the mud and create alot of noise for no real reason.

[Strafin]

Quote (Andy 79) "I would assumbe you are happy that they have wasted £8000 due to the fact you are moaning about £20? If this is the only thing you have to complain about then I honestly have pity for you, there are people in the world with far greater issues that a £20 allotment rise."

Yes and all those issues start somewhere, today it's the allotments, tomorrow it could be council tax or rent. I am not happy that the council have wasted £8000, I am glad you keep highlighting that, it is a waste because the council have been unsuccessful as it is they who have acted outside of the law. I agree with Andy Capp, you have contributed almost nothing to this forum in the short time you have been posting, you are ill informed, ignorant and in the main part abusive, so why not do one?

[Simon Kirby]

I would assumbe you are happy that they have wasted £8000 due to the fact you are moaning about £20? If this is the only thing you have to complain about then I honestly have pity for you, there are people in the world with far greater issues that a £20 allotment rise.

No, it's not been about £20. The dispute about the £20 was over more than two years ago, since then the dispute has been that the Council have been trying to evict me and I don't wan't to be evicted from my allotment. The only resolutions the Council have offered is that I should allow myself to be evicted, or else that I should sign the new tenancy agreement with a secret no-criticism clause. The first option isn't acceptable because I'm passionate about my allotment, and the second option is unacceptable because I feel strongly that in a free society it is wrong for the state to deny someone their freedom of expression. I'm sorry you don't agree with me, but I understand that not everyone will.

[Andy Capp]

He's saying its not about the increase, but it is really. He spotted something where they have not acted by the letter and decided to be a stick in the mud and create alot of noise for no real reason.

There is a reason: the council should behave and act appropriately; I don't think they have. If Simon is wrong then sue him. Over £8,000.00 is not a cheap alternative. As you say, this is over £20.00. £8,000.00 for the sake of £20.00?

[andy1979uk]

No, it's not been about £20. The dispute about the £20 was over more than two years ago, since then the dispute has been that the Council have been trying to evict me and I don't wan't to be evicted from my allotment. The only resolutions the Council have offered is that I should allow myself to be evicted, or else that I should sign the new tenancy agreement with a secret no-criticism clause. The first option isn't acceptable because I'm passionate about my allotment, and the second option is unacceptable because I feel strongly that in a free society it is wrong for the state to deny someone their freedom of expression. I'm sorry you don't agree with me, but I understand that not everyone will.

Are you banning from the forum Stratin ?