Immigration Crisis, getting what we deserve? Options

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Yes, but you are not everybody. And would you fight if your family/ kids were in danger or would you try to get them out? Or let them die alongside you?

Maybe you could volunteer?

I'd let them die alongside me. Are you saying we should have rolled over and have our bellies tickled when Hitler threatened humanity?

No thanks. If we were invaded though give me a Kalashnikov and I'd be at the front of the queue. I guess you'd be on a boat to the USA and
sending for your family when you were safe.

[On the edge]

I'd let them die alongside me. Are you saying we should have rolled over and have our bellies tickled when Hitler threatened humanity?

No thanks. If we were invaded though give me a Kalashnikov and I'd be at the front of the queue. I guess you'd be on a boat to the USA and
sending for your family when you were safe.

There is rather a big difference between the majority and the persecuted minority groups. Let's take your WW2 example, where would you have been if you were a Jewish Naturalised Englishman? Probably in the Isle of Man. The conflicts we are seeing now are rather more like civil wars anyway, so sure, you'd have the opportunity to fight big boy but what of your neighbour? They might have taken a more sensible approach, like getting out of the way, as they probably wouldn't be familiar in Kalashnikov use and packs of bullets aren't easily available from Tesco.

Standing and fighting even in WW2 doesn't really stand scrutiny anyway. We had very detailed plans ready to swing into operation to evacuate the invasion target coast and hinterland; civilians being seen as a hindrance to defence operations.

[GMR]

I'd let them die alongside me. Are you saying we should have rolled over and have our bellies tickled when Hitler threatened humanity? No thanks.

It was a different situation then. And if it wasn't the rest of the Empire and American then you/ we would have certainly lost the war.

If we were invaded though give me a Kalashnikov and I'd be at the front of the queue. I guess you'd be on a boat to the USA and sending for your family when you were safe.

I would assess the situation first. I certainly wouldn't fight for something that was lost before it had even started. That is stupidity. I am also sure that if this country was threated then the rest of Europe and countries like American would come to defend us. Nobody is defending the countries they are from. Dying needlessly is stupid. If you are going to put your life on the line then there must be some sort of chance winning. A good General knows when to attack and knows when to retreat. You would just blindly attack and die. Besides, if push became shove you'd probably **** yourself and run. Those that speak the loudest in the comfort of their own computer terminal are usually the ones ahead of the queue when trying to escape.

[GMR]

There is rather a big difference between the majority and the persecuted minority groups. Let's take your WW2 example, where would you have been if you were a Jewish Naturalised Englishman? Probably in the Isle of Man. The conflicts we are seeing now are rather more like civil wars anyway, so sure, you'd have the opportunity to fight big boy but what of your neighbour? They might have taken a more sensible approach, like getting out of the way, as they probably wouldn't be familiar in Kalashnikov use and packs of bullets aren't easily available from Tesco. Standing and fighting even in WW2 doesn't really stand scrutiny anyway. We had very detailed plans ready to swing into operation to evacuate the invasion target coast and hinterland; civilians being seen as a hindrance to defence operations.

I bet he never thought of that

[TallDarkAndHands...]

There is rather a big difference between the majority and the persecuted minority groups. Let's take your WW2 example, where would you have been if you were a Jewish Naturalised Englishman? Probably in the Isle of Man. The conflicts we are seeing now are rather more like civil wars anyway, so sure, you'd have the opportunity to fight big boy but what of your neighbour? They might have taken a more sensible approach, like getting out of the way, as they probably wouldn't be familiar in Kalashnikov use and packs of bullets aren't easily available from Tesco.

Standing and fighting even in WW2 doesn't really stand scrutiny anyway. We had very detailed plans ready to swing into operation to evacuate the invasion target coast and hinterland; civilians being seen as a hindrance to defence operations.

So would you stand and fight or run.... if we had a civil war here?

[TallDarkAndHands...]

It was a different situation then. And if it wasn't the rest of the Empire and American then you/ we would have certainly lost the war.

I would assess the situation first. I certainly wouldn't fight for something that was lost before it had even started. That is stupidity. I am also sure that if this country was threated then the rest of Europe and countries like American would come to defend us. Nobody is defending the countries they are from. Dying needlessly is stupid. If you are going to put your life on the line then there must be some sort of chance winning. A good General knows when to attack and knows when to retreat. You would just blindly attack and die. Besides, if push became shove you'd probably **** yourself and run. Those that speak the loudest in the comfort of their own computer terminal are usually the ones ahead of the queue when trying to escape.

We'd all assess the situation first. You'd be an idiot not to. Fighting a resistance campaign is equally useful when faced with overwhelming force.
I'm not hiding behind a computer screen either. Happy to have a chat at the next forum meet. We may have different views but no need to prejudge.

[On the edge]

So would you stand and fight or run.... if we had a civil war here?

It would very much depend on whose side I was on wouldn’t it?!! However, if it were a cause I believed in I'd certainly fight BUT that might just make me the aggressor. So, lets look at it closer to home in Ireland. I suspect if I'd been born there when the troubles were bad, I don't think I'd have wanted to stay. What good did the there fighting actually do? Absolutely nothing, and we did get rather a lot of migrants.

[On the edge]

We'd all assess the situation first. You'd be an idiot not to. Fighting a resistance campaign is equally useful when faced with overwhelming force.
I'm not hiding behind a computer screen either. Happy to have a chat at the next forum meet. We may have different views but no need to prejudge.

It seems to me that the key issue here is to go back to the source so to speak. Why are these massive numbers actually coming? So there is rather a lot we could do, right now. Let's face it, a big net migration from any Country must affect its productive and sustainable capability so staunching the flow is in their interest anyway. So it does need some big and effective peace keeping force on the ground. We also need to pump in propaganda designed to show migration isn't the answer. This is massive , but so far unacknowledged issue which sits at the heart of our immediate issue, exactly why are they coming and exactly what do they expect?

We then need to then focus on putting in the foundation of sustainable lifestyle. Indeed, exactly what we had to do in Germany post 1945, where there were also massive population shifts.

Simply concentrating on the migrants themselves is bound to be unworkable and unproductive. As we've seen here, they ain't going to be welcomed in our neck of the woods. We can't even employ or house our own population properly and have been unwilling to deliver the correct infrastructures needed to support a sustainable means of support, ironically even less than we did ourselves in 1945!.

Agree, a forum meet would be great

[Andy Capp]

It seems to me that the key issue here is to go back to the source so to speak. Why are these massive numbers actually coming? So there is rather a lot we could do, right now. Let's face it, a big net migration from any Country must affect its productive and sustainable capability so staunching the flow is in their interest anyway. So it does need some big and effective peace keeping force on the ground. We also need to pump in propaganda designed to show migration isn't the answer. This is massive , but so far unacknowledged issue which sits at the heart of our immediate issue, exactly why are they coming and exactly what do they expect?

We then need to then focus on putting in the foundation of sustainable lifestyle. Indeed, exactly what we had to do in Germany post 1945, where there were also massive population shifts.

Simply concentrating on the migrants themselves is bound to be unworkable and unproductive. As we've seen here, they ain't going to be welcomed in our neck of the woods. We can't even employ or house our own population properly and have been unwilling to deliver the correct infrastructures needed to support a sustainable means of support, ironically even less than we did ourselves in 1945!.

Meanwhile: http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/15...e-for-West.html

"It was previously confirmed in the 2015/16 budget that a further £5.9m would be cut, which leaves a remaining balance of £10.1m in savings until 2018."

[On the edge]

Meanwhile: http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/15...e-for-West.html

"It was previously confirmed in the 2015/16 budget that a further £5.9m would be cut, which leaves a remaining balance of £10.1m in savings until 2018."

It's really quite appropriate you've rowed this in here. It's yet another example of misinformation from 'authority sources' about very serious issues.

If this 'austerity' was really true, how come we can afford such unnecessary fripperies as the Control Tower, the Derelict House in Thatcham? Not to mention pissing away thousands in unnecessary and unproductive legal fees! This all at the lowest level of local governance. Go up a step and ooh, let's squitter away another massive wedge on feeding primary school kids!

I'd argue this suggests we have too much money rather than too little.

[je suis Charlie]

We need a few more housewives on local government, people who actually know how to run things on a budget. A bit more focus and a few less vanity projects would be a good start.

[GMR]

We'd all assess the situation first. You'd be an idiot not to. Fighting a resistance campaign is equally useful when faced with overwhelming force. I'm not hiding behind a computer screen either. Happy to have a chat at the next forum meet. We may have different views but no need to prejudge.

It is not about you having a chat with me. My point was that anybody can say anything in the comforts of their own home; but faced with reality, then that is a different matter. As we are not going to be invaded then you can say what you want knowing full well you won't be taking up arms against anybody. I could say - aged 60 - that if I was face with 4 youthful Samurais wielding swords I would have no trouble taking them on and putting them all in hospital. Of course reality is a different thing, but as I won't be put in that situation then I can safely say that I would have no problem dealing with them. As you would have no problem taking up arms and fighting the thousands of marauding Isis fighters, with your Tommy Gun, in fact when it happens I'll join you, along with everybody else on here.

[GMR]

We need a few more housewives on local government, people who actually know how to run things on a budget. A bit more focus and a few less vanity projects would be a good start.

How about TallDarkAndHands, I am sure, with his Tommy Gun, he would set them straight.

[Simon Kirby]

Meanwhile: http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/15...e-for-West.html

"It was previously confirmed in the 2015/16 budget that a further £5.9m would be cut, which leaves a remaining balance of £10.1m in savings until 2018."

Well, it's a simple enough matter to cut £300k from the NTC budget without affecting public services one jot, and that's around 10% of the shortfall, so it's conceivable that the other West Berkshire parishes can find similar savings and plug the gap without anyone noticing. However, that does rather rely on our elected councillors putting away the dressing-up box and I just don't see them doing that, but then in fairness there aren't many of us actually suggesting that they should. So as you say, we do indeed get what we ask for.

[GMR]

Just a matter of interest; I am presuming that those refugees we take in will be housed, fed and medical expenses paid for them (and training so that eventually, in a couple of years or so, they will be able to fully contribute to this country's tax regime). I am also presuming they won't end up having to use food banks and living rough, as some do in this country?

The positive side is that it will show the world that we are a caring people/ government to the refugees. A good and positive advertisement to what the British can do for those in need (in deed).

[GMR]

I just have been reading that this country will take 25,000 refugees. I am sure that Newbury could take a great portion of those refugees. It will show that WBC are a caring council, who cares for those in need (in deed). If they could do this great deed I am sure that we - as their subjects - will come to love them and admire what they are doing for the needy (in deedy). Out of small gestures comes great and bold institutions. And as for the head of WBC, I can see sculpture being built in Newbury centre in his honour. It makes you feel proud to be British and a Newbury person.

[je suis Charlie]

I've got a spare shed, get a family in there. So long of course that they pay their way and they're gone in a couple of weeks cos I need to put the mower away soon. Two weeks should be ok, in that time the bins will be empty and the cat will be wearing a suicide vest.

[GMR]

I've got a spare shed, get a family in there. So long of course that they pay their way and they're gone in a couple of weeks cos I need to put the mower away soon. Two weeks should be ok, in that time the bins will be empty and the cat will be wearing a suicide vest.

I would imagine that they will need a place to stay for a couple of years and as they don't have any money the government will pay; unless you can take the burden of the tax man and contribute out of your own wealth (and remember; your wealth is greater than what their financial situation is/ was back home). Be a good citizen. You know you want to!

[Petra]

Mr GMR,

I am not sure how to take your post, however, I am prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt and agree wholeheartedly with you. I like to think that Newbury will take its fair share of refugees. This great crisis can be a defining moment for the European Union, and in particular our great nation. Are we united or not? It will show the world what we really are made of. We are a nation of immigrant builders. We have taken many thousands of immigrants and refugees throughout our history. And course, once settled they will be proud Europeans who will respect the flag of Europe.

West Berkshire Council can play a very important part in this crisis and I am sure they will do so. I am also sure that many citizens of Newbury and surrounding areas will offer our guests a place, in their own home to help out, if need be.

Germany, the European leaders, is reputed to take in over 800,000 this year. Obviously we are not the same size as them, but proportionally we could and should match them.

In my position, in my job, we are making plans to do our part and lead the way.

Let us all rally around and play our part. Let us show what great people we are here in West Berkshire. As I have said, this could be a defining moment for the UK, for the European Union, that we are a great force in the world.

Yours,
Petra

[je suis Charlie]

Isn't she sweet? I imagine her like a fluffy bunny with floppy ears popping out of her ickle wabbit hole. Quaint!