What do the LibDems actjually stand for?, Is it simply power at any cost? Options

[On the edge]

GMR ... I stand up an applaud your posts. Bang on. And I say this without being your biggest fan nor a devotee of the Lib Dems. If what is said is true about RG, then he is making a common sense decision taking into account of the conditions before him.


Saying all that, I will never vote for any councillor that hung Simon Kirby like the Newbury Council did. All parties.

Totally agree with your comment about Simon Kirby. That just about put the final on my view of the LibDems.

However, if its right what you say about RG - we might as well forget any political debate, forget any principles or visions, on election day, just go with the biggest gob. Locally, it would eventually mean party politics are ended and so just a society of friends run the show. I suppose that's the European way; look at Italy. One way to run a country; not sure I'd like it .

[Andy Capp]

Totally agree with your comment about Simon Kirby. That just about put the final on my view of the LibDems.

However, if its right what you say about RG - we might as well forget any political debate, forget any principles or visions, on election day, just go with the biggest gob. Locally, it would eventually mean party politics are ended and so just a society of friends run the show. I suppose that's the European way; look at Italy. One way to run a country; not sure I'd like it .

I'm not sure that party politics has any meaning at local level. Indeed, at national level they are all very close.

[On the edge]

I'm not sure that party politics has any meaning at local level. Indeed, at national level they are all very close.

Certainly that's exactly how it seems today - which is why the posturing is so time wasting and pointless. That being so, why does anyone these days stand for election? What is their motivation? Regrettably in most cases it's the personal pursuit of power - simply I know best and I want to be in charge.

The system to get you there is simply to appeal to enough voters at a point in time - so of course, I'll be whatever you want. That's it for five years, and we go round again. Truly an elected dictatorship.

At local level, its not even elected. The paid officials run the Council against criteria set by central government. No room for any other input whatsoever. In reality, we don't elect councillors, rather amateur social workers.

Sad its come to this, but not really surprising.

[Andy Capp]

I totally agree. The only power they seem to have is to persecute individuals that stand up for themselves.

[NWNREADER]

Certainly that's exactly how it seems today - which is why the posturing is so time wasting and pointless. That being so, why does anyone these days stand for election? What is their motivation? Regrettably in most cases it's the personal pursuit of power - simply I know best and I want to be in charge.

The system to get you there is simply to appeal to enough voters at a point in time - so of course, I'll be whatever you want. That's it for five years, and we go round again. Truly an elected dictatorship.

At local level, its not even elected. The paid officials run the Council against criteria set by central government. No room for any other input whatsoever. In reality, we don't elect councillors, rather amateur social workers.

Sad its come to this, but not really surprising.

ADMIN - can we have a 'LIKE' button?

[Cognosco]

They didn't mislead the electorate. The electorate were/ are too thick to understand politics.

The Lib Dems said that if they win the election no tuition frees would go up. They came third thus making their manifesto null and void. Therefore they had to barter their policies with another party; which is PR.

The problem here is that you don't know how politics works.

Well I do realise that politics is not for the ordinary pleb only for the likes of your good self who understand it. But that is the problem! Why should politicians promise the earth just before an election and then completely renege on it after the election. What is the point of having a manifesto and millions spent on party conferences and then just doing the opposite when they get into power? Even you must have a niggling feeling this is not quite right?

[Adrian Hollister]

Well I do realise that politics is not for the ordinary pleb only for the likes of your good self who understand it. But that is the problem! Why should politicians promise the earth just before an election and then completely renege on it after the election. What is the point of having a manifesto and millions spent on party conferences and then just doing the opposite when they get into power? Even you must have a niggling feeling this is not quite right?

Agree. Shameful.

As for RG playing the politics and releasing the story, perhaps it would be good to remind him that in the last council elections he approached the Greens and others and asked them not to stand in Labour target areas. Go democracy go...

[GMR]

GMR ... I stand up an applaud your posts. Bang on. And I say this without being your biggest fan nor a devotee of the Lib Dems. If what is said is true about RG, then he is making a common sense decision taking into account of the conditions before him.


Saying all that, I will never vote for any councillor that hung Simon Kirby like the Newbury Council did. All parties.

Thank you; I do have my moments occasionally..... but don't expect too much of me

[GMR]

Wasn't it also UKIP policy to support the AV vote?

Yes; and?

[GMR]

Well I do realise that politics is not for the ordinary pleb only for the likes of your good self who understand it. But that is the problem! Why should politicians promise the earth just before an election and then completely renege on it after the election. What is the point of having a manifesto and millions spent on party conferences and then just doing the opposite when they get into power? Even you must have a niggling feeling this is not quite right?

A manifesto is what any party would do if they were elected torun the country on their own. The Tories failed, along with the other partiesso the next step is either call another election or try to form a coalitiongovernment with another party. When the Lib Dems agreed to work together is waspretty bloody obvious that they both couldn't use everything they said in theirmanifestos so they had to compromise. Most if not all European countries have aform of PR and therefore have to form coalitions with one or more parties. Thatmeans compromise.

I don't have a "niggling feeling" because I know how politics works.I agree I don't like PR and I see the difficulties of coalitions but if thatwas agreed then compromise is the order of the day.

[GMR]

Agree. Shameful.

How can it be "shameful" when it has always been that way; it is the same throughout the world. If you've got no out right winner then there is only the option of another election or coalition. Another election might not create a clear majority and would cost a lot of money. That is how it has always been throughout history.

[Cognosco]

A manifesto is what any party would do if they were elected torun the country on their own. The Tories failed, along with the other partiesso the next step is either call another election or try to form a coalitiongovernment with another party. When the Lib Dems agreed to work together is waspretty bloody obvious that they both couldn't use everything they said in theirmanifestos so they had to compromise. Most if not all European countries have aform of PR and therefore have to form coalitions with one or more parties. Thatmeans compromise.

I don't have a "niggling feeling" because I know how politics works.I agree I don't like PR and I see the difficulties of coalitions but if thatwas agreed then compromise is the order of the day.

That also means that politicians can act exactly like dodgy second hand car dealers and get away with anything they promise before the election as they know they will not have to abide by anything after the election if they form coalitions.

it also makes it very difficult for voters who, as I think this may apply to the majority of voters, vote not for who they want but vote for who they want to keep out? Voters like me who have no party they want to govern as there is no party that has policies that represent what I stand for. I am sure I am not alone in my thinking especially living in Newbury!

[Adrian Hollister]

How can it be "shameful" when it has always been that way; it is the same throughout the world. If you've got no out right winner then there is only the option of another election or coalition. Another election might not create a clear majority and would cost a lot of money. That is how it has always been throughout history.

As said previously, it's the red line items that must not be compromised. This is what you stand for and believe in.

[NWNREADER]

Agree. Shameful.

As for RG playing the politics and releasing the story, perhaps it would be good to remind him that in the last council elections he approached the Greens and others and asked them not to stand in Labour target areas. Go democracy go...

He never told us that!!!!

[NWNREADER]

As said previously, it's the red line items that must not be compromised. This is what you stand for and believe in.

No such thing as a 'red line' item. The manifesto is always constructed that a party can say afterwards it cannot be done because of what they found when they took over.......
Most should be cut into 6" squares, but those printed on gloss paper can slip when used

[Cognosco]

He never told us that!!!!

Looks as if he will make good politician material then?

But there again what would I know I don't understand politics perhaps Exhausted would to to explain it to us poor Plebs?

[GMR]

That also means that politicians can act exactly like dodgy second hand car dealers and get away with anything they promise before the election as they know they will not have to abide by anything after the election if they form coalitions.

But that is up to the people. If they vote for a certain party and give them a majority then the manifesto will be carried out... If not then you've got compromise.

it also makes it very difficult for voters who, as I think this may apply to the majority of voters, vote not for who they want but vote for who they want to keep out? Voters like me who have no party they want to govern as there is no party that has policies that represent what I stand for. I am sure I am not alone in my thinking especially living in Newbury!

But that is our system. The only other system is PR which means we can only have compromise.

[GMR]

As said previously, it's the red line items that must not be compromised. This is what you stand for and believe in.

Actually you should read back to what I said. I didn't say it is what I believe in but the nature of our political system. Actually I am against PR as it causes the problems that have been highlighted. Coalition is just another form of PR (created by circumstances).

[Richard Garvie]

Agree. Shameful.

As for RG playing the politics and releasing the story, perhaps it would be good to remind him that in the last council elections he approached the Greens and others and asked them not to stand in Labour target areas. Go democracy go...

Not quite true Adrian. I appoached all the independents and smaller parties to try and work together to avoid competing for same seats. I suppose you should maybe go and read the emails we exchanged at the time and correct your post.

[NWNREADER]

I see no difference in the Hollister claim and the Garvie denial.