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> Consulting... and ignoring, soiunds familiar?
Andy Capp
post Feb 20 2014, 08:04 PM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24670413

In a similar vein, and as was noted in the NWN today, the councils kept schtum about the depot on Greenham until it was too late for anyone to get motivated against it. A stich-up by Julian Swift-Hook and his chums by the looks of it.

It is things like this that bring politics into disrepute, not the yeah-bah at PMQs (which is just a bit of fun).
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NWNREADER
post Feb 20 2014, 08:30 PM
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Just like 'exploring' the provision of power points in a public street after the organiser for some forthcoming events has advertised for site hirers - the advert shows 'electricity included'. No prizes then for guessing how the consultation/exploration will work......
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Exhausted
post Feb 20 2014, 08:51 PM
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The favourite ploy of WBC. How many times have they devised a form or asked for public consultation and then because they couldn't be bothered to listen to the responses or it didn't fit their pre-conceived idea ignored the wishes of their voters.
The pavilion in the park, despite a totally negative response from the public, WBC proceeded to cobble up plans and then tried another questionnaire with loaded questions. The reason for the demise was down to the financial constraints that were starting to pinch.
The museum design. Went out to public view and visitors were asked their views and given the opportunity to fill out a form with their comments. Action from WBC regarding the public proposals. Nil due to the fact that prior to the public unveiling they had already signed sealed and delivered what they wanted.
The recent parking consultation. It appears that the consultation that generated considerable public negative comments was an informal consultation. A second almost secret consultation was then carried out to which there were not too many replies as most of those who were against it thought that their letters/signatures would carry forward. They were wrong and the second consultation by WBC was determined to be the formal consultation. Signed sealed and delivered.
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Exhausted
post Feb 20 2014, 08:58 PM
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This is the statement from councillor Bale on the subject...

A 6 week informal consultation was undertaken between 21 January and 1 March 2013. This consultation was carried out to seek to understand the likely impact of the on-street charging proposals for the streets in Newbury. The objective was to gauge the impact on various groups within our community and to seek to mitigate this impact as best we could. Following this informal consultation the results were subsequently published on the Consultation Finder web page. The results included an assessment of all of the consultation responses and a report that set out changes to the proposals to seek to address concerns raised. The report also concluded that the revised scheme would now be taken forward to the formal statutory consultation stage by advertising the necessary Traffic Regulation Orders. It was also stated that any representations received to this formal statutory consultation would be taken into account in the decision making process. This formal consultation was undertaken using the Council’s Consultation Finder web page between 25 July and 15 August 2013. As with all such formal statutory consultations street notices were also erected on site and published in the local press. There were 25 objections to the statutory consultation and these were taken into account prior to the proposals being approved by Executive Individual Decision on 28 November 2013. This decision was then called in for scrutiny and considered by the Council’s Overview and Scrutiny Management Commission on 21 January 2014 where the Executive Individual Decision was upheld.
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NWNREADER
post Feb 20 2014, 09:19 PM
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Exactly.
"This is what we are going to do, so you lot had better agree. If you don't we'll do it anyway, so you might as well. In any case, we have commitments to the people we have agreed with already.....

Now get back in your box and send more money."
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Lolly
post Feb 20 2014, 11:16 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Feb 20 2014, 09:19 PM) *
Exactly.
"This is what we are going to do, so you lot had better agree. If you don't we'll do it anyway, so you might as well. In any case, we have commitments to the people we have agreed with already.....

Now get back in your box and send more money."


And if you question our decision we'll label you vexatious!
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motormad
post Feb 21 2014, 01:10 AM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Feb 20 2014, 09:19 PM) *
Exactly.
"This is what we are going to do, so you lot had better agree. If you don't we'll do it anyway, so you might as well. In any case, we have commitments to the people we have agreed with already.....

Now get back in your box and send more money."



Unfortunately that seems how "democracy" works in this country. And indeed most others.


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Claude
post Feb 21 2014, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE (motormad @ Feb 21 2014, 01:10 AM) *
Unfortunately that seems how "democracy" works in this country. And indeed most others.

It's not all bad, I'd much rather live in Newbury than Kiev.
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Cognosco
post Feb 21 2014, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE (Claude @ Feb 21 2014, 02:52 PM) *
It's not all bad, I'd much rather live in Newbury than Kiev.


I think what is happening in Kiev goes to show that there is a limit to what authority can do before people say enough is enough......it's all a matter of perspective!
Some may think that what the authorities do in Newbury may be minor misdemeanors but if they are not highlighted how far will they go? Remember the authorities are there to represent the public ratepayer they should be transparent and open and if there are any objections then they should provide an answer to why they are doing what they are doing and not just declare people vexatious for making queries that they would prefer not to answer. rolleyes.gif

I have asked the question at least twice regarding what is proposed for the use of the electric power points that is going to cost the ratepayers £9000 as usual the answer is.......silence! angry.gif


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On the edge
post Feb 21 2014, 05:01 PM
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QUOTE (Claude @ Feb 21 2014, 02:52 PM) *
It's not all bad, I'd much rather live in Newbury than Kiev.


Be very careful, how do you think this type of uprising starts? Bit by bit, step by step, I hope you notice before it's too late.


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gel
post Jun 21 2014, 06:36 AM
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New Parking Controls introduced by Supreme Leader, Cllr Bale!

I see that Eric Pickles & another Minister, have made some new guidance, which may give hope that
the undemocratic parking changes recently introduced may be challenged; good on yer Eric.

Communities Secretary Eric Pickles and Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin will today
announce further pro-motorist measures, including a new right to allow local residents and firms to demand a review of parking in their area, including charges and the use of yellow lines,
and lowering penalties that deter many motorists from appealing unfair tickets.

'Over-zealous parking enforcement and unreasonable stealth fines undermine the high street, push up the cost of living and
cost local authorities more in the long term. '
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Andy Capp
post Jun 21 2014, 08:41 AM
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I notice that you can only pay by card or phone too. rolleyes.gif
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Exhausted
post Jun 21 2014, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 21 2014, 09:41 AM) *
I notice that you can only pay by card or phone too. rolleyes.gif


I don't recall any such decision being made regarding payhone only but I am searching the WBC site and see if I can see where that was slipped in.

For the details of the meeting of the overview and scrutiny meeting on 21st Jan where they kick out all the objections, look here

http://decisionmaking.westberks.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=17916

The fact that there were two consultations is a typical ploy. The first is informal, then they chuck away all those objections and have a formal consultation. Surprise there are very few objections to the latter and that is because all the people who sent them in for the first assumed that they would be carried over. They were in error.

And Pamela Bale's executive report which includes comments (if any) from fellow councillors.

http://decisionmaking.westberks.gov.uk/doc...al%20Report.pdf





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blackdog
post Jun 21 2014, 11:35 PM
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QUOTE (Exhausted @ Jun 21 2014, 10:03 PM) *
I don't recall any such decision being made regarding payhone only but I am searching the WBC site and see if I can see where that was slipped in.

For the details of the meeting of the overview and scrutiny meeting on 21st Jan where they kick out all the objections, look here

http://decisionmaking.westberks.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=17916

The fact that there were two consultations is a typical ploy. The first is informal, then they chuck away all those objections and have a formal consultation. Surprise there are very few objections to the latter and that is because all the people who sent them in for the first assumed that they would be carried over. They were in error.


Payphone only was in the original proposal - so I guess it all got decided at once, no special decision would need to be made.

Still, it's a classic example of decision making regardless of public opinion.

What amazes me is that there are several references in the scrutiny document that demonstrate that the scheme is all about raising cash - and no mention of any improvement to traffic control. Surely the Barnet decision didn't mean that councils can only not use parking for fund raising once parking income already pays for all of the council spending on traffic, roads, etc?? Nevertheless this seems to be what the WBC lawyers have decided.

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MontyPython
post Jun 22 2014, 07:29 AM
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QUOTE (Claude @ Feb 21 2014, 03:52 PM) *
It's not all bad, I'd much rather live in Newbury than Kiev.


I would prefer it if Pangbourne Pam moved to Kiev though!
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Exhausted
post Jun 22 2014, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE (MontyPython @ Jun 22 2014, 08:29 AM) *
I would prefer it if Pangbourne Pam moved to Kiev though!


Yes but it's good to have someone from outside the area deciding what is best for Newbury. At least it draws the eye away from Pangbourne. I wonder how it would have gone down with her if it had been Pangbourne for parking meters and pay by phone. I must nip up there sometime and have a cruise through the streets and perhaps have a chat with one of their WBC parking officers. (If I can find any of course).

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Turin Machine
post Jun 22 2014, 02:19 PM
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At least Fat Eric is on the case now, banning camera vans, introduction of 10 minute grace periods. And he got to the nub of the matter when he called them "greedy councils".


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Andy Capp
post Jun 22 2014, 07:00 PM
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I like the idea that they didn't install coin machines because of security concerns, but boollox to the poor end user having their card scammed.
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spartacus
post Jun 23 2014, 12:22 AM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 22 2014, 03:19 PM) *
At least Fat Eric is on the case now........ introduction of 10 minute grace periods.

But you'll be able to park for 10 minutes on yellow lines outside schools too presumably without being issued a ticket by 'over zealous wardens'. That's just asking for a kid to be knocked over as they cross the road between cars parked on yellow lines introduced for safety reasons.
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NWNREADER
post Jun 23 2014, 03:48 AM
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QUOTE (spartacus @ Jun 23 2014, 01:22 AM) *
But you'll be able to park for 10 minutes on yellow lines outside schools too presumably without being issued a ticket by 'over zealous wardens'. That's just asking for a kid to be knocked over as they cross the road between cars parked on yellow lines introduced for safety reasons.


Different offence. Do the CEOs have the authority to deal with stopping on school zigzags?
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