Our MP's family doing well out of EU Farm payouts, Huge sums doled out to Benyon's Englefield Trust Options

[Cognosco]

Where are they mentioned in the article? Are you saying no benefits should be reduced?

European handouts is a far more contentious issue. The proportion of benefit Englefield Estates have received over 10 years is not enough to pay for anything you have angst about.

I would happily see the level of EU CAP handouts reduced substantially as they are a farce.

They are not mentioned in the article. I was trying to make the point that when money is tight in general the rich carry on as though nothing has happened? Look at the mess the bankers have caused worldwide and how much it has cost taxpayers worldwide? Now they are back to business as normal and the ordinary taxpayer is having to pay for their mistakes. How can it be fair for the taxpayer to subsidies large companies and family business when the already suffering are having their meager pittances cut even more?

I know when you look at it there is nothing illegal in what is being done but morally it is completely wrong surely? At the end of the day it is robbing Peter so that Paul gets even more? We are all in it together just some are having to go a very long way deeper than others?

[NWNREADER]

They are not mentioned in the article. I was trying to make the point that when money is tight in general the rich carry on as though nothing has happened? Look at the mess the bankers have caused worldwide and how much it has cost taxpayers worldwide? Now they are back to business as normal and the ordinary taxpayer is having to pay for their mistakes. How can it be fair for the taxpayer to subsidies large companies and family business when the already suffering are having their meager pittances cut even more?

I know when you look at it there is nothing illegal in what is being done but morally it is completely wrong surely? At the end of the day it is robbing Peter so that Paul gets even more? We are all in it together just some are having to go a very long way deeper than others?

I don't know enough rich people to know if they 'just carry on'. I do know the Englefield Estate looks after the local community better than many employers.
Bringing the 'banking crisis' into this debate is a bit of a quantum leap, and still does not make the 'Englefield' story valid. Many of the 'bail-outs' are structured so the repayments are quite beneficial to the Government/taxpayer. That is why the new Irish Government will be working to re-structure their bail-out as Main Effort.
Fair? That is a rare ideal in government circles!! Sometimes it is better on balance to subsidise a business than for it to go under? That would surely create more beggars on the streets and weeping urchins?

I find the EU immoral, but we still fund it.

[Richard Garvie]

I gather he has severed his involvement in the company. What would you have someone do, delete their past entirely? Not realistic, whoever they are.

Too much EU money by far is wasted and syphoned off.

There are so many EU grants available, so without knowing which ones the Company claimed it is hard to say whether the funds were needed. Many living in the area will tell of the way the family contributes to the local community, so I suspect the money could well have benefitted more than just the individuals who 'own' the family business.

I said funds cannot be donated to a specific activity. If anyone can give money to WBC - and I do not know if the rules allow that - such funds almost certainly cannot be 'to keep a youth club open'. Having been a volunteer in a Council owned facility for many years I know only too well the crazy bureaucracy that restricts ways of creating income.

I think your bitterness is preventing you see the wider issues that exist. I am not rich (I wish!!) I have to take extra work to keep my head above water. I'd love to have access to allowances and expenses to enhance my income, but the rules I work under do not provide any. That does not mean someone with a different employment may not claim proper expenses etc they do have access to. It also doesn't mean I ignore greed by those people.

From what I know/see/believe, Mr Benyon is not a good target for the investigative journalists - there are far meatier candidates for 'exposure'.

So he is not the trustee of the business? He doesn't call the shots? I don't mind him taking the money if he is entitled, but why hide the evidence? Why not do what his colleague did and give up the payments whilst in office? I'm sure he's a nice enough guy, but this government just seem to be making some silly choices. This would be a non story if there had been no attempted cover up.

[Richard Garvie]

They should not be when the payments are made to a business, according to the case summary that led to the policy. For years the UK Government has been OTT on the application and enforcement of EU missives. I do not know what part Mr Benyon had in the decision - probably drafted by a Civil Servant, and maybe (?) before his tenure.

It is no longer his business.

He is still trustee and beneficiary.

[NWNREADER]

He is still trustee and beneficiary.

I don't know the arrangements as well as you, and I see no reason for angst.

Was the decision not to publish business recipients' grants his? What was the guidance he received from the Civil Servants?

I once queried the way things are in France - seat of the EU half the time. The answer was 'We have all the regulations just the same as the UK. We just don't enforce them'. For many years the UK has pandered to the EU in a wholly inappropriate way.

At least the Englefield business is a genuine one, not constructed to claim grants.

[Phil_D11102]

I don't know enough rich people to know if they 'just carry on'. I do know the Englefield Estate looks after the local community better than many employers.

Are they going to subsidise those folks who are losing benefits? I don't think so. The grants the estate are getting are probably very legit, but it stinks when this same person is getting these grants while voting to cut services and benefits to those worse off.

The rich aren't still getting richer in this crisis? While the cash bonus to those working in finances are getting smaller, they are still a whole lot more than what most people will get in bonuses and cost of living wage rises. I am sure that the makeup of stock in lieu of the lower cash bonuses have those guys crying all the way to the Bahamas.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

He is a rich tory toff who is quick to judge yet as long as things are 'legal' but some would argue immoral then he'll quaff all the cash he can from the EU trough. Money go's to money. Always has done. Always will.

[Bofem]

Are they going to subsidise those folks who are losing benefits? I don't think so. The grants the estate are getting are probably very legit, but it stinks when this same person is getting these grants while voting to cut services and benefits to those worse off.

Kind of. Englefield hands out around £250,000 a year to mostly local good causes, which their latest accounts shows support for hundreds of things (including cash for six WBerks state-run schools, Corn Exchange, Watermill, and even the conservation of red squirrels!).

I don't know if you're aware that the Benyons made six figure donation towards the Arlington Arts building in Snelsmore.

If you look hard, you'll find that the EU grants Englefield receives are largely dished out to the voluntary sector. The family just don't like shouting about it.

For the record, I'm neither grateful or jealous. But before sounding off, it's always worth checking the facts.

[Sidney]

I used to have a business in Newbury - which Mr Benyon visited. Times were tough and his advice was "hang on in there". I am sure with those sorts of subsidies I would have !!!!!! But back in the real world ......

[TallDarkAndHands...]

http://farmsubsidy.org/lists/28/englefield...hard-benyon-mp/

Ching Ching.....

[Phil_D11102]

Englefield hands out around £250,000 a year to mostly local good causes.

How much of that is tax deductable?

The trust has 8.5 million tied up in investments, not bad...

[NWNREADER]

How much of that is tax deductable?

The trust has 8.5 million tied up in investments, not bad...

So your real point is you are jealous?

[Phil_D11102]

So your real point is you are jealous?

Jealous, no try enraged.

When I wrote to him asking for an explanation on why a family on 50K with one person earning over the 43K threshold will lose their child benefit while a two income family on 80K will keep theirs, his feedback was somebodies gotta lump it.

Meanwhile, with his 8 million in investments is also getting subsidies, the situation could be called hypocritical.

I too have investments, but they are called pension plans for my retirement, which keeps moving further and further away. How many terms in Whitehall will he have to serve before he gets a big fat pension?

The same person who is helping to take away with one hand is putting it in his pocket with the other. Dress it up as you like, he is still associate with the fact that his concern is getting subsidised while the rest of us are getting scr*wed without getting kissed first.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Jealous, no try enraged.

When I wrote to him asking for an explanation on why a family on 50K with one person earning over the 43K threshold will lose their child benefit while a two income family on 80K will keep theirs, his feedback was somebodies gotta lump it.

Meanwhile, with his 8 million in investments is also getting subsidies, the situation could be called hypocritical.

I too have investments, but they are called pension plans for my retirement, which keeps moving further and further away. How many terms in Whitehall will he have to serve before he gets a big fat pension?

The same person who is helping to take away with one hand is putting it in his pocket with the other. Dress it up as you like, he is still associate with the fact that his concern is getting subsidised while the rest of us are getting scr*wed without getting kissed first.

The Common Agricultural Policy is a license for landowners to print money. An absolutely disgraceful piece of EU legislation. The CAP costs an average family of four in Europe £16 a week in taxes and higher food prices. So you are in effect lining Benyons pocket.

http://www.ukfg.org.uk/docs/Cafod_The%20ro...20the%20CAP.pdf

[Strafin]

Jealous, no try enraged.

When I wrote to him asking for an explanation on why a family on 50K with one person earning over the 43K threshold will lose their child benefit while a two income family on 80K will keep theirs, his feedback was somebodies gotta lump it.

Meanwhile, with his 8 million in investments is also getting subsidies, the situation could be called hypocritical.

I too have investments, but they are called pension plans for my retirement, which keeps moving further and further away. How many terms in Whitehall will he have to serve before he gets a big fat pension?

The same person who is helping to take away with one hand is putting it in his pocket with the other. Dress it up as you like, he is still associate with the fact that his concern is getting subsidised while the rest of us are getting scr*wed without getting kissed first.

Some very good points. Child benefit should be for everyone I guess, however if you're going to put a threshold on it it should be less than £50k surely?

[Bofem]

Jealous, no try enraged.

I too have investments, but they are called pension plans for my retirement, which keeps moving further and further away. How many terms in Whitehall will he have to serve before he gets a big fat pension?

Reading this, I would say definitely green with envy

[Phil_D11102]

Some very good points. Child benefit should be for everyone I guess, however if you're going to put a threshold on it it should be less than £50k surely?

A two family income of 80K will be fine, as long as each of them is making below the 43k. If I am on 47K, and my wife is on 3K, my income is taken into consideration and we lose the child benefit. Not really fair..

Reading this, I would say definitely green with envy

If I can make 30 to 35 K combined per annum in my retirement, I will be very content. I am saving my butt off now so I don't have to leave below the breadline after 40 plus years of working.

Again, if you are an MP, how many terms/years do you have to serve before you get that fat payout. Do MP's give good value for money, at least enough to justify their MP pension? How many committee and votes to they attend per year? How many surguries/town hall meetings do you schedule and meet with the voters? How many years in jail will you get for defrauding the tax payers out of expenses? Will a middle income person do less of a job compared to a rich man in an old boy network?

[NWNREADER]

Some very good points. Child benefit should be for everyone I guess, however if you're going to put a threshold on it it should be less than £50k surely?

Whatever level it is set at there would be complaints. The rules re joint claimants are unavoidable in these days of equality, I suspect. Personally I think the cut-off is too high - £40k tops.

When looking at someones asset base, do not mix personal and business/trust funds.

MP pensions and allowances are a scandal, as they grant themselves benefits others are barred from receiving. As it happens Mr B claims far less than the system allows him to.

As for the claims - look through the list more deeply. EU grants are obtuse to say the least, but on inspection the ones Englefield receive in various forms are modest by comparison with, say, Suttons Settled Estates (and no criticism of them intended).

[Richard Garvie]

Whatever level it is set at there would be complaints. The rules re joint claimants are unavoidable in these days of equality, I suspect. Personally I think the cut-off is too high - £40k tops.

When looking at someones asset base, do not mix personal and business/trust funds.

MP pensions and allowances are a scandal, as they grant themselves benefits others are barred from receiving. As it happens Mr B claims far less than the system allows him to.

As for the claims - look through the list more deeply. EU grants are obtuse to say the least, but on inspection the ones Englefield receive in various forms are modest by comparison with, say, Suttons Settled Estates (and no criticism of them intended).

But the payments aren't the issue as such, it is the conflict of interest. One of the DEFRA ministers has given up these payments whilst in office to avoid the conflict. The other ministers appear to want to cover up what they are getting, and that is where the problem lies.

Maybe Mr Benyon could just publish what his interests recieve on his website, despite all other payments to other estates not being disclosed. That way there is no way people can attack him for wanting to hide these payments?

[Simon Kirby]

But the payments aren't the issue as such, it is the conflict of interest. One of the DEFRA ministers has given up these payments whilst in office to avoid the conflict. The other ministers appear to want to cover up what they are getting, and that is where the problem lies.

Maybe Mr Benyon could just publish what his interests recieve on his website, despite all other payments to other estates not being disclosed. That way there is no way people can attack him for wanting to hide these payments?

Richard, I don't see a conflict of interest. Would you expect Ken Clarke not to call the police if he'd been burgled, or Andrew Lansley not to go to an NHS doctor if he was sick, or Michael Gove not to be able to send his children to a state school, or George Osborne not to claim income tax relief? It makes an awful lot of sense for an under-secretary of state at Defra to be a farmer, and it's in the nature of things that his farm will get CAP payments, and he doesn't even have responsibilty for the CAP, that's in Caroline Spelman's portfolio. Debate the merits of the CAP by all means, but there's nothing here to embarrass Richard Benyon, and yah-boo politicking undermines the debate.