School Closure, Faulty Heating Closes St Barts. Options

[On the edge]

Being of a certain age, I can remember the winter of 1963, sitting in my Secondary School, in an overcoat and gloves. In fact, I can't actually remember the school ever closing during term times for the whole time I was at school, primary or secondary. Yet these days, at the drop of a hat, school is out.

However, the latest episode at St.Barts stretches credibility even further. This is a new school and the buildings have now passed the 'bugging' stage. According to NWN the heating shut down because of a faulty sensor! Some questions, isn't the school supposed to have been built to the highest insulating standards compatible with its green credentials?

Does this modern high tech. heating system really have single points of failure? Are there no rapid fault finding processes that can come swiftly into play? If maintaining internal temperature at levels higher than the Factories Act minimum is a statutory demand, why is there not an emergency provision?

Sorry St Barts. This really is a 'Not trying, could do better' E for effort job!

[x2lls]

The world has gone bonkers.

Only tonight, I went to B&Q in Reading to pick up an upstand for my kitchen refurb.
They come in ten foot lengths and I only required a maximum of one meter.
When I asked if they could cut it in half for me, I was told, 'sorry mate', it won't fit the saw, but you can cut it yourself, we can lend you a saw. You can't however do that inside the shop, you'll have to do it outside.


Elf n safety at it's best.

[Simon Kirby]

The world has gone bonkers.

Only tonight, I went to B&Q in Reading to pick up an upstand for my kitchen refurb.
They come in ten foot lengths and I only required a maximum of one meter.
When I asked if they could cut it in half for me, I was told, 'sorry mate', it won't fit the saw, but you can cut it yourself, we can lend you a saw. You can't however do that inside the shop, you'll have to do it outside.


Elf n safety at it's best.

I'd really like to see the risk assessment that found that cutting the wood in the shop was an unacceptable health and safety risk. Health and Safety gets blamed for a lot of management idiocy that is nothing at all to do with the systematic management of health and safety. More serious still, good Health and Safety culture costs employers money and powerful right-wing business interests are forever fighting a dirty-tricks campaign to smear Health and Safety culture and the legislation that attempts to set minimum standards - standards that have been hard one by the trade union movement that grew from the appalling attitude to human life and limb in the industrial age.

[Strafin]

I agree with Simon, I also think that managers are sometimes ineffective at delivering the right message and staff go a bit overboard. In the case of St Barts, I was surprised to see that it had closed, it certainly wasn't that cold, I had a jumper on but no jacket earlier and it was fine.

[x2lls]

I'd really like to see the risk assessment that found that cutting the wood in the shop was an unacceptable health and safety risk. Health and Safety gets blamed for a lot of management idiocy that is nothing at all to do with the systematic management of health and safety. More serious still, good Health and Safety culture costs employers money and powerful right-wing business interests are forever fighting a dirty-tricks campaign to smear Health and Safety culture and the legislation that attempts to set minimum standards - standards that have been hard one by the trade union movement that grew from the appalling attitude to human life and limb in the industrial age.

This evening I went to your store to obtain an upstand, which come in ten foot lengths.
I requested that it be cut in half in order that I could get it into my car.
I was told that it couldn't be cut because it was too narrow to fit the instore saw. I was told, however, that I could borrow a hand saw from checkout to do it myself. I was then told that I was not permitted to cut the upstand in store but had to do it outside, due to 'health and safety' rules.

Are you serious?

Surely, a store such as B & Q has the capability of cutting a simple piece of wood?

[motormad]

Unfortunately everyone is blame'n'claim so if a child was to for example get hypothermia or something then yeah the school would be liable.

Considering it's a law that there's a minimum temperature which I think is 15.5 degrees and under which PPE has to be provided.
Not saying I agree with it but really it's not like the half a day or a couple of days, which no doubt homework will be given, is a great loss to anyone at the moment.

[On the edge]

No, just the lost productivity of and cost to parents at work where in some cases rapid provision for access or care would have been needed but who gives a tinkers cuss about them.

[Strafin]

Unfortunately everyone is blame'n'claim so if a child was to for example get hypothermia or something then yeah the school would be liable.

Considering it's a law that there's a minimum temperature which I think is 15.5 degrees and under which PPE has to be provided.
Not saying I agree with it but really it's not like the half a day or a couple of days, which no doubt homework will be given, is a great loss to anyone at the moment.

There is no "law", just guidance.

[Andy Capp]

There is no "law", just guidance.

That's correct, according to this: http://www.atl.org.uk/health-and-safety/wo...temperature.asp

[On the edge]

Even more worrying then, if we have these strictly adhered to guidelines, why didn't the school's Health and Safety risk assessments pick up the lack of an adequate fall back heating provision? Even in our back street office we have that! Lets face it, in so many cases regrettably 'Health and Safety' is simply a coverall excuse for poor management, which actually negates the real goodness in that area. Something we could learn from many emerging economies, closing a school for any reason is seen as shameful.

[motormad]

No, just the lost productivity of and cost to parents at work where in some cases rapid provision for access or care would have been needed but who gives a tinkers cuss about them.

To be fair, they are 11-16 year olds, most of whom would likely have keys for their house.. It's hardly like a toddler, and I do believe that teachers would stay with the children until such time appropriate care can be gotten for them - They are unlikely to say "right school is closed, piss off".

I'm not saying it's ideal and I'm not saying I agree with it - but it's hardly causing a mass-exodus of parents from work. And besides; it's unlikely that your employer would dock pay for leaving work to pick their child up, and further to that, as a parent sometimes these things happen.

[On the edge]

I might be more inclined to agree; if they didn't make this such a habit! Or indeed fine parents who take their kids out of school for family reasons.

[HJD]

Did anyone watch the Red Nose Challenge about the Zambezi last night where the children had a 2 hour walk to get to school. Brings things into perspective slightly does'nt it.

[On the edge]

Did anyone watch the Red Nose Challenge about the Zambezi last night where the children had a 2 hour walk to get to school. Brings things into perspective slightly does'nt it.

Exactly so; no turning straight back if the a/c wasn't working; though I somehow doubt if they have anything like that!

[Exhausted]

This evening I went to your store to obtain an upstand, which come in ten foot lengths.
I requested that it be cut in half in order that I could get it into my car.
I was told that it couldn't be cut because it was too narrow to fit the instore saw. I was told, however, that I could borrow a hand saw from checkout to do it myself. I was then told that I was not permitted to cut the upstand in store but had to do it outside, due to 'health and safety' rules.

Are you serious?

Surely, a store such as B & Q has the capability of cutting a simple piece of wood?

You didn't mention the H&S message in your first post but I can see where they are coming from. If you cut your thumb off in the store because you coudn't cope with their sharp saw I bet 99% of people would be looking for compensation. I agree with the store, if you don't like the length then buy it, take it into the car park and chop it in half then the risk is yours. Don't blame the store, blame our new claims culture. This includes a child coming down with pneumonia because he/she sat in a cold classroom. You can bet that the Health & Safety executive haven't made a rule but the two words are used to protect businesses from a claim. Remember the claim advert that saw some stupid woman slip up because the floor was wet shaking her compo cheque for the benefit of the camera.

So, what did you do buy it and cut it or walk away.

[x2lls]

You didn't mention the H&S message in your first post but I can see where they are coming from. If you cut your thumb off in the store because you coudn't cope with their sharp saw I bet 99% of people would be looking for compensation. I agree with the store, if you don't like the length then buy it, take it into the car park and chop it in half then the risk is yours. Don't blame the store, blame our new claims culture. This includes a child coming down with pneumonia because he/she sat in a cold classroom. You can bet that the Health & Safety executive haven't made a rule but the two words are used to protect businesses from a claim. Remember the claim advert that saw some stupid woman slip up because the floor was wet shaking her compo cheque for the benefit of the camera.

So, what did you do buy it and cut it or walk away.

Bought and cut.

My point is, if they can identify the percieved risk, then surely they can provide the required service with a little effort to avoid the 'risk'. Firstly, get a saw that will cut relatively narrow timber. Personally, I fail to see how any saw 'can't ' do that!. Large pieces yes, but small sizes? If they really want to avoid claims, then perhaps a disclaimer can be signed by the customer. Either way, it's a really stupid situation to find yourself in.
They sell a full range of safety equipment, so why not use it?

[blackdog]

French equivalent of B&Q (Leroy Merlin) have a workbench by the exit with a saw attached by a chain. Cut stuff at your own risk, but at least there is reasonable place to do it.

[Strafin]

Great solution, they seem to do that sort of thing in the US as well, and they have a massive compensation culture. They just handle it better.

[x2lls]

Well well well,

Good Afternoon Mr Sanitised,

Thank you for your e-mail dated 13th March 2013.

Firstly, please accept my apologies for the delay in our response; we do endeavour to respond as quickly as possible.

I am very sorry that you have had cause to complain on this occasion and can only apologise for the inconvenience you have been caused. As a company B&Q are very aware of the need for our customers to receive an excellent level of service at all times and I am sorry that we appear to have failed to live up to your expectations on this occasion.

However, we are governed by Health and Safety Regulations which does not allow us to attain the level of service that we would like to provide.

Thank you for your contacting B&Q. Please do not hesitate to contact us, should you require any further information.

Kind Regards

Lorna Wilson B&Q Customer Services
+44(0) 8456096688 | b&qcustomerservices@b-and-q.co.uk | diy.com

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Buck passing at it's best

[x2lls]

Thank you for your response.

Firstly, please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to your response.

As advised by your good self, I am not hesitating in contacting you for further information.

My point is, if you can identify the perceived risk, then surely you can provide the required service with a little effort to avoid the 'risk'. Why do you not get a saw that will cut relatively narrow timber? Personally, I fail to see how any saw 'can't ' do that. Large pieces yes, but small sizes? If you really want to avoid claims, then perhaps a disclaimer can be signed by the customer. Either way, it's a really stupid situation to put your customers in. You sell a full range of safety equipment, so why not use it?

Could you please provide details of the specific Health and Safety rule(s) that prevent you from providing the level of service you would like to provide.

Best regards