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> Tim Farron
je suis Charlie
post Jun 16 2017, 11:03 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2017, 06:14 AM) *
How is avoiding the victims showing respect? She's inept. Jeremy Corbyn has never been afraid of people. As time goes on the worse he makes May look.

Said the van driver. 😎
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newres
post Jun 17 2017, 06:03 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 17 2017, 12:03 AM) *
Said the van driver. 😎

At least the radio works. tongue.gif
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je suis Charlie
post Jun 17 2017, 09:08 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 17 2017, 07:03 AM) *
At least the radio works. tongue.gif

🙌
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 17 2017, 12:55 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 15 2017, 11:05 PM) *
100+ people by all accounts. Why not be truthful? If people lived there and have not been seen since then they are gone. Landlords should NOT be voting on any laws in parliament to do with building or fire regulations in Parliament. Conflict of interest. Would not be allowed in the Corporate world. Change is needed. But blame of individuals is dangerous. People are looking for individuals to take anger out on. It's the system that is broken. Fix that first and then look to see if any blame should be assigned.


The authrorities need to update the figures. I have seen figures banded about of 350.
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On the edge
post Jun 17 2017, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 17 2017, 01:55 PM) *
The authrorities need to update the figures. I have seen figures banded about of 350.


They simply don't know yet. It would be almost impossible to guess until a search of the whole place was done. The intense heat meant some bodies would have been incinerated. Equally, given the number of flats, it's going to be hard to account for casual visitors. Frankly, 'the authorities' have more pressing things to do than confirm numbers with pinpoint accuracy - simply expect many more.


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Turin Machine
post Jun 17 2017, 03:39 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 17 2017, 04:25 PM) *
They simply don't know yet. It would be almost impossible to guess until a search of the whole place was done. The intense heat meant some bodies would have been incinerated. Equally, given the number of flats, it's going to be hard to account for casual visitors. Frankly, 'the authorities' have more pressing things to do than confirm numbers with pinpoint accuracy - simply expect many more.

They won't be incinerated, probably find d them as lump of carbonised flesh, usually find them in corners, quite often of bedrooms, and under the beds. Usually in the classic 'pugilist' pose. Might be able to find enough DNA if they're lucky.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 17 2017, 03:51 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 17 2017, 04:39 PM) *
They won't be incinerated, probably find d them as lump of carbonised flesh, usually find them in corners, quite often of bedrooms, and under the beds. Usually in the classic 'pugilist' pose. Might be able to find enough DNA if they're lucky.


Also. Supposed to be 2 per flat. Talking about 600 in 120 flats. Most subletted. No criticism of that. But shows massively how much under estimated the UK population is. Unfortunately many many of the dead will be unindentified as they were not here legally.
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On the edge
post Jun 17 2017, 04:25 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 17 2017, 04:51 PM) *
Also. Supposed to be 2 per flat. Talking about 600 in 120 flats. Most subletted. No criticism of that. But shows massively how much under estimated the UK population is. Unfortunately many many of the dead will be unindentified as they were not here legally.


That's almost bizzare; two per flat; where did that come from? As far as subletting is concerned, to me, its rather like ticket touting, the unacceptable face of capitalisim. Getting a 'return' for doing nothing, absolutley nothing. And people moan about benefit theft!


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 17 2017, 04:41 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 17 2017, 05:25 PM) *
That's almost bizzare; two per flat; where did that come from? As far as subletting is concerned, to me, its rather like ticket touting, the unacceptable face of capitalisim. Getting a 'return' for doing nothing, absolutley nothing. And people moan about benefit theft!


The 2 per flat was a generalisation so apologies for that. Officially just over 300 people lived in 120 flats. Estimates put it at 6 to 700 though. And if you are illegal you have to live somewhere...Again just relaism. No criticism.
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On the edge
post Jun 17 2017, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 17 2017, 05:41 PM) *
The 2 per flat was a generalisation so apologies for that. Officially just over 300 people lived in 120 flats. Estimates put it at 6 to 700 though. And if you are illegal you have to live somewhere...Again just relaism. No criticism.


Quite agree.


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Turin Machine
post Jun 17 2017, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 17 2017, 05:55 PM) *
Quite agree.

Presumably the tenants were doing the subletting?
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On the edge
post Jun 17 2017, 05:14 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 17 2017, 06:04 PM) *
Presumably the tenants were doing the subletting?


There is a world of difference between taking a lodger, or indeed sharing accommodation and 'subletting'.


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Turin Machine
post Jun 17 2017, 05:16 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 17 2017, 06:14 PM) *
There is a world of difference between taking a lodger, or indeed sharing accommodation and 'subletting'.

And do you know they weren't subletting? We know it's common..
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 17 2017, 05:35 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 17 2017, 06:16 PM) *
And do you know they weren't subletting? We know it's common..


The definiton of sub letting is irrelevant. They won't have had contracts. Just a you scratch my back deal. The cost of living in this area is astronomical. The left has made this very political. I dislike that. Especially the likes of Linekar and Allen who seem to be co-ercing the have nots to riot. I would rather a full investigation be done quickly to hopefully put things right for others. Lessons need to be learned and it is no time for political procrastinating.
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Turin Machine
post Jun 17 2017, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 17 2017, 05:25 PM) *
That's almost bizzare; two per flat; where did that come from? As far as subletting is concerned, to me, its rather like ticket touting, the unacceptable face of capitalisim. Getting a 'return' for doing nothing, absolutley nothing. And people moan about benefit theft!

I was referring to this statement,. Where once more Tories seem to be getting blamed when it would have been the very people in the flats engaging in the "unacceptable face of capitalism". But I agree, the politicising of the tragedy is both tasteless and counter productive. Didn't stop Corbyn from bringing in busloads of activists all wearing the same t-shirts for him to lead through London. Half of these poor people have list everything, can hardly speak English and they get press ganged into the middle of Momentums finest. Doubt if even half of them even know who May even is!
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On the edge
post Jun 17 2017, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 17 2017, 06:54 PM) *
I was referring to this statement,. Where once more Tories seem to be getting blamed when it would have been the very people in the flats engaging in the "unacceptable face of capitalism". But I agree, the politicising of the tragedy is both tasteless and counter productive. Didn't stop Corbyn from bringing in busloads of activists all wearing the same t-shirts for him to lead through London. Half of these poor people have list everything, can hardly speak English and they get press ganged into the middle of Momentums finest. Doubt if even half of them even know who May even is!


Oh dear, the truth is starting to hurt isn't it.

Even before an investigation it's becoming very clear what some of the major issues are here; that is slack regulation and enforcement. As National Rail found out to our cost when it tried, you can't gamble with safety.

So in reality, what and how this happened is staring us in the face. Given the austerity cuts and what we know about the management process, the why it happened is also becoming rather more clear.

Sure, we need a detailed investigation, but we also need to learn some big lessons, like immediately. Make no mistake, this whole issue is actually what politics is all about.


Note - most subletting occurs with absentee landlords. People who take a long lease on a property then lease it on short term to others. Very very common in areas of high labour turnover and students.


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post Jun 17 2017, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 17 2017, 07:31 PM) *
Oh dear, the truth is starting to hurt isn't it.

Even before an investigation it's becoming very clear what some of the major issues are here; that is slack regulation and enforcement. As National Rail found out to our cost when it tried, you can't gamble with safety.

So in reality, what and how this happened is staring us in the face. Given the austerity cuts and what we know about the management process, the why it happened is also becoming rather more clear.

Sure, we need a detailed investigation, but we also need to learn some big lessons, like immediately. Make no mistake, this whole issue is actually what politics is all about.

The truth is that we just don't know and trying to blame may without knowing any facts is puerile and pointless. Still doesn't address my other points though.
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je suis Charlie
post Jun 17 2017, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 17 2017, 07:31 PM) *
Oh dear, the truth is starting to hurt isn't it.

Note - most subletting occurs with absentee landlords. People who take a long lease on a property then lease it on short term to others. Very very common in areas of high labour turnover and students.

Ha, Mr know all, the truth is ;
"Subletting happens when an existing tenant lets all or part of their home to someone else who is known as a subtenant. Many tenants need permission before they can sublet."
With thanks to the citizens advice.
Tenants, breaking contracts, nothing to do with landlords you Marxist puppet.
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On the edge
post Jun 17 2017, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 17 2017, 07:44 PM) *
Ha, Mr know all, the truth is ;
"Subletting happens when an existing tenant lets all or part of their home to someone else who is known as a subtenant. Many tenants need permission before they can sublet."
With thanks to the citizens advice.
Tenants, breaking contracts, nothing to do with landlords you Marxist puppet.

Well. My Fascist apologist, who can only think Google, define 'let'.


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 17 2017, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 17 2017, 09:23 PM) *
Well. My Fascist apologist, who can only think Google, define 'let'.


I've said it all along and I wont apologise but this is one of the reasons why we voted out of the EU. Uncontrolled immigration results in overcrowding and death.

Also showed up the demographic in London these days. The indigineous population no longer exists.

A lot of the victims will sadly be never identified as they probably never "existed" in this Country officialy anyway. Sad.
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