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> Internment Should Be Seriously Considered.
x2lls
post May 29 2017, 11:39 PM
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We are in a state of war. Not the usual battalion against battalion, but war nonetheless.

Met Officer


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Simon Kirby
post May 30 2017, 06:40 AM
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QUOTE (x2lls @ May 30 2017, 12:39 AM) *
We are in a state of war. Not the usual battalion against battalion, but war nonetheless.

Met Officer

Internment without trial sounds rather dangerous - if there is criminality then by all means prosecute it, but once we start locking up people because we don't like their views on mayors or allotments or whatever then we're no longer a free society.


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gel
post May 30 2017, 06:50 AM
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Was done in previous wars and we have to accept that there are substantial numbers of these
budding martyrs in our midst; if the Security services have sound suspicions by all means intern
them & their supporters.
Far easier to interrogate if they are locked up than having to waste teams of 20 MI5 etc
staff having to tail each one.
We should have no qualms in view of their recent violent history and the fact that a significant
% of that section of population are cheer leaders for such activities.
Deportation if there's any suspicions proved, where an immigrants involved.

All this talk of community cohesion cuts no ice with me, as one section of the community
have absolutely zero interest in integrating in our over tolerant society.
Strange how those leaving these highly intolerant regimes always head for countries like us.

All of us are inconvenienced to a greater or lesser degree every day because of the
security restrictions we have had to get used to, going back to the days when Palestinians
were hijacking/ blowing up planes.
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x2lls
post May 30 2017, 12:29 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 30 2017, 06:40 AM) *
Internment without trial sounds rather dangerous - if there is criminality then by all means prosecute it, but once we start locking up people because we don't like their views on mayors or allotments or whatever then we're no longer a free society.



But it is not about others views on mayors and allotments is it?
It is about those who kill and maim on behalf of an ideology that is determined to undermine and eventually take over.

Tell me please, how would you deal with the current situation if you had the power to do so?


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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 30 2017, 01:36 PM
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QUOTE (gel @ May 30 2017, 07:50 AM) *
Was done in previous wars and we have to accept that there are substantial numbers of these
budding martyrs in our midst; if the Security services have sound suspicions by all means intern
them & their supporters.
Far easier to interrogate if they are locked up than having to waste teams of 20 MI5 etc
staff having to tail each one.
We should have no qualms in view of their recent violent history and the fact that a significant
% of that section of population are cheer leaders for such activities.
Deportation if there's any suspicions proved, where an immigrants involved.

All this talk of community cohesion cuts no ice with me, as one section of the community
have absolutely zero interest in integrating in our over tolerant society.
Strange how those leaving these highly intolerant regimes always head for countries like us.

All of us are inconvenienced to a greater or lesser degree every day because of the
security restrictions we have had to get used to, going back to the days when Palestinians
were hijacking/ blowing up planes.


Deport to where? Most of them are British....
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Simon Kirby
post May 30 2017, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE (x2lls @ May 30 2017, 01:29 PM) *
But it is not about others views on mayors and allotments is it?

Not yet, but I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of interning someone for something they may or may not think when there isn't the evidence to convict them of an actual crime, and even if I didn't have compassion for those we were interning enlightened self-interest would tell me that the things I think might eventually follow on the banned list.

QUOTE
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

I mean, clucking bell, I'm both a socialist and trades-unionist so my name's right at the top of the list.

I can't agree that internment is anything but a really unhelpful suggestion and I think you just have to treat all criminality the same - detect and prosecute in the short term and address any root cause injustice.


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x2lls
post May 30 2017, 11:47 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 30 2017, 08:53 PM) *
Not yet, but I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of interning someone for something they may or may not think when there isn't the evidence to convict them of an actual crime, and even if I didn't have compassion for those we were interning enlightened self-interest would tell me that the things I think might eventually follow on the banned list.


I mean, clucking bell, I'm both a socialist and trades-unionist so my name's right at the top of the list.

I can't agree that internment is anything but a really unhelpful suggestion and I think you just have to treat all criminality the same - detect and prosecute in the short term and address any root cause injustice.



Simon, your argument doesn't make sense to me in regard to idealistic morons mowing down people with vehicles and suicide bombing kids.
There are many on the suspect list through intelligence, and time and time again, they have proven to be exactly what they were suspected of being. The threat is real. It is nothing to do with whether you are trade unionist or anything else that is legal for that matter. We are talking about an organised attack on our very way of life. From what I read in your statement you are saying we should wait until someone gets killed in the most horrific way before we take action. For me prevention is far better than cure. We, as a population expect and must be provided with protection by our government and the tools at it's disposal. There would not be any 'banned list'. This is a very specific issue that HAS to be addressed.

As an aside, where the usual commentators that occupy this forum that are so vocal on many other subjects? unsure.gif


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Andy Capp
post May 31 2017, 01:40 AM
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Internment didn't quell the PIRA, it seems that didn't happen until we managed to stem their funding.
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On the edge
post May 31 2017, 05:45 AM
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Internment as we've seen from past experience simply doesn't work. It creates martyrs and actually gives succour to those continuing to fight. Internment camps unless properly and expensively managed, become universities of terrorism. Yes, we are also defending to protect our national way of life and freedoms. Locking people up 'on suss' without due process isn't one of them, in fact quite the reverse.


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newres
post May 31 2017, 06:36 AM
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Internment is like national service. A favourite solution for those without intelligence.
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Biker1
post May 31 2017, 08:48 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ May 31 2017, 07:36 AM) *
Internment is like national service. A favourite solution for those without intelligence.

It would appear that everyone who disagrees with you is "without intelligence"! rolleyes.gif
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je suis Charlie
post May 31 2017, 09:46 AM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 31 2017, 09:48 AM) *
It would appear that everyone who disagrees with you is "without intelligence"! rolleyes.gif

As is always the way with the left, when bereft of argument simply substitute anger, bile and invective. The left are simply misguided, the right have to be stupid and evil. Its the basis of the lefts political ideology.
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On the edge
post May 31 2017, 10:34 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 10:46 AM) *
As is always the way with the left, when bereft of argument simply substitute anger, bile and invective. The left are simply misguided, the right have to be stupid and evil. Its the basis of the lefts political ideology.

...was the right wing project fear, its bile and invective against Jeremy Corbyn, etc.etc. A 'different sort' of substitute anger? Do tell!

Subservience by force has always been the basis of the rights political ideology.

laugh.gif

If the cap fits Je suis.....


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je suis Charlie
post May 31 2017, 11:09 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ May 31 2017, 11:34 AM) *
...was the right wing project fear, its bile and invective against Jeremy Corbyn, etc.etc. A 'different sort' of substitute anger? Do tell!

Subservience by force has always been the basis of the rights political ideology.

laugh.gif

If the cap fits Je suis.....

A lesson you have embraced whole heartedly 😥
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On the edge
post May 31 2017, 12:10 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 12:09 PM) *
A lesson you have embraced whole heartedly 😥


Quite dear boy, when in Rome. laugh.gif


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je suis Charlie
post May 31 2017, 12:28 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ May 31 2017, 01:10 PM) *
Quite dear boy, when in Rome. laugh.gif

Eat pasta?
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Simon Kirby
post May 31 2017, 12:55 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 10:46 AM) *
As is always the way with the left, when bereft of argument simply substitute anger, bile and invective. The left are simply misguided, the right have to be stupid and evil. Its the basis of the lefts political ideology.

I've not called you stupid have I? For that matter have I called anyone here stupid? I try and address my comments to the argument, though you yourself have called me an idiot a couple of times and I was pretty offended by that. I don't think you can reasonably characterise the leftist position as inevitably ad hominem, I see quite as much weak rhetoric from all sides of the debate. I think we all get more from this if we try and remain civil.


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Simon Kirby
post May 31 2017, 01:23 PM
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QUOTE (x2lls @ May 31 2017, 12:47 AM) *
Simon, your argument doesn't make sense to me in regard to idealistic morons mowing down people with vehicles and suicide bombing kids.
There are many on the suspect list through intelligence, and time and time again, they have proven to be exactly what they were suspected of being. The threat is real. It is nothing to do with whether you are trade unionist or anything else that is legal for that matter. We are talking about an organised attack on our very way of life. From what I read in your statement you are saying we should wait until someone gets killed in the most horrific way before we take action. For me prevention is far better than cure. We, as a population expect and must be provided with protection by our government and the tools at it's disposal. There would not be any 'banned list'. This is a very specific issue that HAS to be addressed.

As an aside, where the usual commentators that occupy this forum that are so vocal on many other subjects? unsure.gif

I think the essential difference between us is that I don't see the problem of Islamic fanaticism as a widespread attack on the UK. I'm trying to be open minded about it and I recognise that when a terrorist atrocity is a possibility at any public venue then it is obviously a significant threat, but it is my perception that the threat is coming from a small number of alienated or otherwise derranged whack-jobs and in a free society there is always going to be that marginal threat from douche-bags of one variety or another and you deal with it by keeping it in proportion. The IRA was the last time our security was similarly threatened and for a decade I was used to my vehicle being searched for car bombs by armed police, but life went on and peace eventually prevailed. I have no idea how peace will ever return to the middle east but I think we could improve the situation in the UK if we didn't keep whacking that particular hornets' nest with such an inprudently large stick.


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je suis Charlie
post May 31 2017, 01:32 PM
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Quote,
"Jeremy Corbyn’s excruciating appearance on Woman’s Hour has sparked uproar from his supporters who have accused interviewer Emma Barnett of being biased and even a “Zionist”.

Anti Semitism? Move along, nothing to see here.
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newres
post May 31 2017, 01:39 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 10:46 AM) *
As is always the way with the left, when bereft of argument simply substitute anger, bile and invective. The left are simply misguided, the right have to be stupid and evil. Its the basis of the lefts political ideology.

Do you support internment then? Did it work with the IRA or did it just create more support and sympathy for the nationalist cause?
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