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blackdog
post May 13 2017, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 13 2017, 12:38 AM) *
And the thousands of jobs that would go with trident? Oh wait, Scotland, right, who cares!

Must be getting on for 10,000 jobs in West Berkshire dependent on it.
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Simon Kirby
post May 13 2017, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 13 2017, 02:48 PM) *
Well it seems like this whole thread is like la la land so I may as well join in. Printing money... Zimbabwe anyone? Vote Corbyn.

That's not an argument, it's just mockery. Can you say specifically what you see to be so absurd.


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Simon Kirby
post May 13 2017, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 13 2017, 03:04 PM) *
The problem with your theory is that you could spend 1 trillion on each of the above and stop none of them. Unless you can find a way of controlling the human brain... And im pretty sure we would both not like that.

Ah, the council of despair. That's not a very good argument for doing nothing about the real threats.


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On the edge
post May 13 2017, 04:01 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ May 13 2017, 04:08 PM) *
Must be getting on for 10,000 jobs in West Berkshire dependent on it.


Absolutley.

Just think, if we diverted all this professional expertise to peaceful nuclear innovation we'd not need to import French, Chinese or any other 'expert knowledge' to close our energy gap and, who knows, we could well take a World lead.



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Simon Kirby
post May 13 2017, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ May 13 2017, 04:08 PM) *
Must be getting on for 10,000 jobs in West Berkshire dependent on it.

Would you be happy for the state to prop-up 10,000 non-jobs in an anachronistic industry producing something as awful as nuclear weapons, or would you support local state investment in cyber-security, medical research, and anti-terrorism with a re-training programme to move that workforce over.


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je suis Charlie
post May 13 2017, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 13 2017, 05:09 PM) *
Would you be happy for the state to prop-up 10,000 non-jobs in an anachronistic industry producing something as awful as nuclear weapons, or would you support local state investment in cyber-security, medical research, and anti-terrorism with a re-training programme to move that workforce over.

Anything that goes bang gets my vote. Terrorists? Show em the sharp end of a gun. Problem solved.


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Turin Machine
post May 13 2017, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ May 13 2017, 05:01 PM) *
Absolutley.

Just think, if we diverted all this professional expertise to peaceful nuclear innovation we'd not need to import French, Chinese or any other 'expert knowledge' to close our energy gap and, who knows, we could well take a World lead.

By which I assume you mean nuclear power generation? Something you yourself railed most vociferously against only recently. ☢️
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Andy Capp
post May 13 2017, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 13 2017, 05:20 PM) *
Anything that goes bang gets my vote. Terrorists? Show em the sharp end of a gun. Problem solved.

Always worked before, and continues to work, and probably will keep on working for some time to come.
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je suis Charlie
post May 13 2017, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 13 2017, 05:55 PM) *
Always worked before, and continues to work, and probably will keep on working for some time to come.

Right on! More of the same wanted.


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On the edge
post May 13 2017, 06:19 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 13 2017, 05:43 PM) *
By which I assume you mean nuclear power generation? Something you yourself railed most vociferously against only recently. ☢️


If you'd actually read the post, you would have seen that I was railing against a the French Nationalised electricity firm building and managing our plants. Thus taking 'high end' jobs from the UK. Ironically, just the sort of intellectual jobs in nuclear physics the organisations round here have, but apply to destructive weapons.

My personal take is that although we probably could meet the country's energy needs using sustainable sources, we've left it far too late to implement before international obligations mean fossil fuel burn us no longer viable. The only acceptable alternative is some type of nuclear station. Again, just to make it sink in, this is exactly why we need high quality UK people so we are not totally reliant on continental or indeed overseas skills.



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Biker1
post May 14 2017, 08:06 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 13 2017, 05:20 PM) *
Anything that goes bang gets my vote. Terrorists? Show em the sharp end of a gun. Problem solved.

Hmmmm, nice thought but....... rolleyes.gif
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je suis Charlie
post May 14 2017, 09:12 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ May 13 2017, 07:19 PM) *
If you'd actually read the post, you would have seen that I was railing against a the French Nationalised electricity firm building and managing our plants. Thus taking 'high end' jobs from the UK. Ironically, just the sort of intellectual jobs in nuclear physics the organisations round here have, but apply to destructive weapons.

My personal take is that although we probably could meet the country's energy needs using sustainable sources, we've left it far too late to implement before international obligations mean fossil fuel burn us no longer viable. The only acceptable alternative is some type of nuclear station. Again, just to make it sink in, this is exactly why we need high quality UK people so we are not totally reliant on continental or indeed overseas skills.

Vive les francaise ?


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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 24 2017, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 14 2017, 09:06 AM) *
Hmmmm, nice thought but....... rolleyes.gif


Not quite as morally disengaged as some however.
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Blake
post May 25 2017, 10:28 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 12 2017, 09:25 PM) *
The NHS is currently under attack from cyber-criminals - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/39901370

Security analysts have been saying for years that the top-tier threats to UK security are 1. international terrorism, 2. cyber-criminality, and 3. pandemic, and the UK is painfully exposed to these real credible threats because all the serious money is being spent on a nuclear deterrent from the 1980's despite there no longer being a single state in the world with both the capability and intent to threaten the UK's territorial integrity.


Really? The Russians are threatening us, flying nuclear bombers around our borders and submarines around our coasts. The Russians are on the course of full on expansionism and the ringleaders of a great international conspiracy to subvert democracy.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 25 2017, 10:52 PM
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QUOTE (Blake @ May 25 2017, 11:28 PM) *
Really? The Russians are threatening us, flying nuclear bombers around our borders and submarines around our coasts. The Russians are on the course of full on expansionism and the ringleaders of a great international conspiracy to subvert democracy.

All wrong. We live in a land of fluffy bunnies and love and all things wonderful. Just a quick question. British Airways has 100000 flights per year. If a few planes crashed each year. What would we do? Pray for the victims and let the planes carry on flying even though we knew.....
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On the edge
post May 26 2017, 06:28 AM
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QUOTE (Blake @ May 25 2017, 11:28 PM) *
Really? The Russians are threatening us, flying nuclear bombers around our borders and submarines around our coasts. The Russians are on the course of full on expansionism and the ringleaders of a great international conspiracy to subvert democracy.


Looks as if the Libbies were right all along and we will need the Control Tower again.


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Berkshirelad
post May 26 2017, 07:34 AM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 13 2017, 05:09 PM) *
Would you be happy for the state to prop-up 10,000 non-jobs in an anachronistic industry producing something as awful as nuclear weapons, or would you support local state investment in cyber-security, medical research, and anti-terrorism with a re-training programme to move that workforce over.


Your argument is void.

This is not a binary choice; not one or the other.

There is no mutual exclusivity; you could have both
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On the edge
post May 26 2017, 02:49 PM
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QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ May 26 2017, 08:34 AM) *
Your argument is void.

This is not a binary choice; not one or the other.

There is no mutual exclusivity; you could have both


I don't think anyone has advanced the its all one or the other argument; apart from the Government who are fixated with 'owning' nuclear weapons. They argue (quite rightly) that the national income cake has to be cut into several slices. The slice for defence is then divvied up against the various real or imagined threats we face. Regrettably, our thinking hasn't kept up so our defence budget, most of which is spent propping up a nuclear arsenal, is as out of date and pointless as NTC's civic regalia and doesn't even have the benefit of 'looking nice'.

Of course, we could go down your route and do both, to the full. No issue, but then we start cutting the other slices, hospitals, schools.etc. So if directed against the non Russian threat, we'd be trying to defend our people against a better life style!


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Simon Kirby
post May 26 2017, 06:33 PM
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QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ May 26 2017, 08:34 AM) *
Your argument is void.

This is not a binary choice; not one or the other.

There is no mutual exclusivity; you could have both

No, both options together are too expensive so if you prop-up 10,000 non-jobs in an anachronistic industry producing something as awful as nuclear weapons then even if you wanted to you wouldn't have that £200billion of public money to invest in cyber-security, medical research, and anti-terrorism, and obviously you wouldn't need a re-training programme to move that workforce over if you were happy to keep the anachronistic non-jobs.


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