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> UK Under Attack
Simon Kirby
post May 12 2017, 08:25 PM
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The NHS is currently under attack from cyber-criminals - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/39901370

Security analysts have been saying for years that the top-tier threats to UK security are 1. international terrorism, 2. cyber-criminality, and 3. pandemic, and the UK is painfully exposed to these real credible threats because all the serious money is being spent on a nuclear deterrent from the 1980's despite there no longer being a single state in the world with both the capability and intent to threaten the UK's territorial integrity.


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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 12 2017, 08:36 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 12 2017, 09:25 PM) *
The NHS is currently under attack from cyber-criminals - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/39901370

Security analysts have been saying for years that the top-tier threats to UK security are 1. international terrorism, 2. cyber-criminality, and 3. pandemic, and the UK is painfully exposed to these real credible threats because all the serious money is being spent on a nuclear deterrent from the 1980's despite there no longer being a single state in the world with both the capability and intent to threaten the UK's territorial integrity.


Better get up to AWRE Simon and tie yourself to the gates. Make sure you wear a rucksack and grow a beard....😂
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Simon Kirby
post May 12 2017, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 12 2017, 09:36 PM) *
Better get up to AWRE Simon and tie yourself to the gates. Make sure you wear a rucksack and grow a beard....😂

Point is there are some real threats out there, real credible threats to UK security, and we're not doing enough about them. So for example, flu is a credible threat, but there is no credible threat to the UK for which Trident is a deterrent - so which is a better thing to spend £200Billion on - medical research that could cure the flu, or Trident? I mean, the Medical Research Council spend around £1Billion on research annually, so what would life in the UK be like if that £200Billion cost of Trident were to be spent on medical research?


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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 12 2017, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 12 2017, 10:12 PM) *
Point is there are some real threats out there, real credible threats to UK security, and we're not doing enough about them. So for example, flu is a credible threat, but there is no credible threat to the UK for which Trident is a deterrent - so which is a better thing to spend £200Billion on - medical research that could cure the flu, or Trident? I mean, the Medical Research Council spend around £1Billion on research annually, so what would life in the UK be like if that £200Billion cost of Trident were to be spent on medical research?


Even more bl00dy overcrowded. laugh.gif
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Simon Kirby
post May 12 2017, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 12 2017, 10:21 PM) *
Even more bl00dy overcrowded. laugh.gif

Fine, if that's a threat let's spend £200Billion on birth control.


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Turin Machine
post May 12 2017, 09:41 PM
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Just like to attempt to point out that it's not just the UK, apparently it's 74 other countries as well and, that £200 billion wouldn't get spent on the NHS or improvements to cyber security, it would be carved up between different departments and 'special interest' groups with very little to show for it at the end of the day. It's always been the same, throughout history, the doves pursuade us that we don't need the latest and or best means of defense then, when it all goes belly up it's a mad scramble to catch up. It was only luck and chance that we survived the opening blows in ww2 and we still didn't learn the lesson.
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Simon Kirby
post May 12 2017, 09:51 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 12 2017, 10:41 PM) *
Just like to attempt to point out that it's not just the UK, apparently it's 74 other countries as well and, that £200 billion wouldn't get spent on the NHS or improvements to cyber security, it would be carved up between different departments and 'special interest' groups with very little to show for it at the end of the day. It's always been the same, throughout history, the doves pursuade us that we don't need the latest and or best means of defense then, when it all goes belly up it's a mad scramble to catch up. It was only luck and chance that we survived the opening blows in ww2 and we still didn't learn the lesson.

It's true, the UK was very nearly invaded in 1940, and today we face threats from cycber-criminality, international terrorism, and global pandemic and we're not doing enough to defend against them.


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je suis Charlie
post May 12 2017, 11:38 PM
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And the thousands of jobs that would go with trident? Oh wait, Scotland, right, who cares!


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je suis Charlie
post May 12 2017, 11:40 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 12 2017, 10:12 PM) *
Point is there are some real threats out there, real credible threats to UK security, and we're not doing enough about them. So for example, flu is a credible threat, but there is no credible threat to the UK for which Trident is a deterrent

Today.


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Simon Kirby
post May 13 2017, 02:15 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 13 2017, 12:38 AM) *
And the thousands of jobs that would go with trident? Oh wait, Scotland, right, who cares!

The one option that would lose jobs is to save the £200Billion cost of Trident by cancelling the programme and cutting tax, but I'm not suggesting that, I'm suggesting that as the current tax bill is broadly affordable that the £200Billion cost of Trident be spent instead on defending the UK against real threats that we face today, so specific Trident-related jobs would go but other jobs would be created and no one would lose their livelihood.


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Simon Kirby
post May 13 2017, 02:21 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 13 2017, 12:40 AM) *
Today.

Indeed, and I am suggesting that the we should defend against the threats which face the UK today and not what threatened us 50 years ago - else when trouble strikes we'll be as effective as the Polish cavalry were against tanks and machine guns.


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On the edge
post May 13 2017, 05:48 AM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 12 2017, 10:41 PM) *
Just like to attempt to point out that it's not just the UK, apparently it's 74 other countries as well and, that £200 billion wouldn't get spent on the NHS or improvements to cyber security, it would be carved up between different departments and 'special interest' groups with very little to show for it at the end of the day. It's always been the same, throughout history, the doves pursuade us that we don't need the latest and or best means of defense then, when it all goes belly up it's a mad scramble to catch up. It was only luck and chance that we survived the opening blows in ww2 and we still didn't learn the lesson.


Its not actually the technology that causes the issue, its failing to move with the change in the type of warfare. The Boar War we nearly lost because our army found it difficult to cope with guerilla type warfare as opposed to the classic battlefield stuff. Even then, we didn't understand the effect of mechanisation on battlefield war so ended up with the mess of WW1. We failed to see the threat from Germany, actually standing by and seeing it re arm that was the stupidity. Its not the kit, its our failure to anticipate what comes next - even when its staring us in the face.

We spend huge amounts on nuclear defence. Ironically, the basic kit is purchased from America, so one does have to wonder what on earth we actually get from Aldermaston and Harwell? We would have been more prudent to have asked the Americans to keep the base and weapons systems at Greenham.


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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 13 2017, 07:05 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ May 13 2017, 06:48 AM) *
Its not actually the technology that causes the issue, its failing to move with the change in the type of warfare. The Boar War we nearly lost because our army found it difficult to cope with guerilla type warfare as opposed to the classic battlefield stuff. Even then, we didn't understand the effect of mechanisation on battlefield war so ended up with the mess of WW1. We failed to see the threat from Germany, actually standing by and seeing it re arm that was the stupidity. Its not the kit, its our failure to anticipate what comes next - even when its staring us in the face.

We spend huge amounts on nuclear defence. Ironically, the basic kit is purchased from America, so one does have to wonder what on earth we actually get from Aldermaston and Harwell? We would have been more prudent to have asked the Americans to keep the base and weapons systems at Greenham.


We need to be ready ro fight the USE when Germany have completed the 4th Reich.😊
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On the edge
post May 13 2017, 07:17 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 13 2017, 08:05 AM) *
We need to be ready ro fight the USE when Germany have completed the 4th Reich.😊


Very good smile.gif

Nonetheless, that basic premise adversely affects our defence thinking. We are no longer a World power; even after Brexit. Just like Greece, Italy, Austro Hungary, our Empire has gone for ever.


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Simon Kirby
post May 13 2017, 07:19 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 13 2017, 08:05 AM) *
We need to be ready ro fight the USE when Germany have completed the 4th Reich.😊

And you accuse me of being the fantasist.


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je suis Charlie
post May 13 2017, 09:29 AM
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It won't be the fatherland, it'll be the motherland, Putin. Corbyn and his Trot's are preparing the ground as we speak.


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On the edge
post May 13 2017, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 13 2017, 10:29 AM) *
It won't be the fatherland, it'll be the motherland, Putin. Corbyn and his Trot's are preparing the ground as we speak.


Don't worry, Putin told David Cameron we are irrelivant.....so no worries

But hold on, as someone pointed out to me on a train just now, 'Ivan in the Street' had a reasonable apartment in town, a job with reasonable hours, sick pay and pension, free and decent health care, the kids went to university for free plus three weeks on the Black Sea every year. So, old son, there might just be few of your mates around who'd hold the door open...


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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 13 2017, 01:48 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 13 2017, 08:19 AM) *
And you accuse me of being the fantasist.

Well it seems like this whole thread is like la la land so I may as well join in. Printing money... Zimbabwe anyone? Vote Corbyn.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 13 2017, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 12 2017, 10:51 PM) *
It's true, the UK was very nearly invaded in 1940, and today we face threats from cycber-criminality, international terrorism, and global pandemic and we're not doing enough to defend against them.

The problem with your theory is that you could spend 1 trillion on each of the above and stop none of them. Unless you can find a way of controlling the human brain... And im pretty sure we would both not like that.
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blackdog
post May 13 2017, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 13 2017, 02:48 PM) *
Printing money...


Talk about living in the past - it's all about Quantitative Easing these days. Darling and Osborne were pretty keen on it, much more efficient than actually printing the stuf, just juggle the spreadsheet and pretend it exists.
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