Victoria Park play area to close Options

[Cognosco]

Dannyboy made fair and accurate point. Almost every thing being done in Newbury is met by instant moaning on here. Must be a Newbury thing because the same moaning goes on in the other place, probably by the same people. I wonder if they are paid to moan or is it a hobby thing

I'm not allowed to moan when her indoors is around. This is the only chance I get! Don't spoil it for me please!

[Simon Kirby]

The council have confirmed that no fence was included as oer current industry advice.

Are you simply repeating what NTC have told you, or have you verified this so-called playground industry design advice?

Other recently installed parks in Newbury do not have fening either.

That's simply not true, so why would you make the claim? Visit the excellent playground in Blossom's Field, Wash Common, installed by NTC a couple of years ago - complete with perimiter fence to keep the dogs out and the kids in.

Incidentally, I was told the other day that the allotments in Wash Common are getting a fence next year. Personally I think it's a hatleful idea and a complete waste of money because it'll destroy a 150 year old enclosure hedge that just needs some gapping up and proper maintenance and allotmenteers can do that for themselves - growing stuff is what we do afterall. So why not use that money and let us manage our own hedge?

[GrumblingAgain]

Well, he made a point. But it was neither fair nor accurate. Reading his post again verifies this. He talks about "the old curmudgeons", but the only people that have made comment on this thread are a couple of forum regulars and parents that use the play area. A group of people qualified to comment on it if ever there was one. Granted, at the beginning of the thread there are one or two complaints about the timing of the closure. And at one point Richard does his best to steer the thread in a political direction (there's an election coming up!). But there has been none of the usual moaning that I can see, just people questioning the reasoning behind desicions that have been made. He quotes a figure of "half a million quid", to make it sound like people are being unreasonable, as if NTC are spending lots of money and people are just moaning for the sake of it. But, once again, this is the Victoria Park play area we are talking about, and he knows that nothing like that figure is being spent on it - rather £90,000 down from £160,000. So where is the relevence of saying "half a million quid"? He mentions the fence as if it is some insignificant detail, but to many parents, for reasons explained and in the links given, it is seen as an important consideration.



I agree that many people just use these forums to moan about anything and everything. But this thread - if you actually read it from start to finish, and especially the latter half - isn't one of those occasions. Indeed, if you are so sure of the thread being full of moaning curmudgeons, then show me where that is the case, and not just people raising valid questions. And I don't mean the occasional or one off post.

Up until his outburst, this thread has remained on topic (the park play area).

Yes the first two posts did look like a moan to me too. I didn't say this thread was FULL of moaning curmudgeons, (nor did Dannyboy for that matter perhaps you need to read it carefully too ) there are plenty of good comments in this thread but he was referring to the regulars who were moaning and (to me) seem turn many of the other threads into instant moans too. To be called stupid and be accused of being ignorant just for making a valid observation is rather unfair.

[Rosewinelover]

Are you simply repeating what NTC have told you, or have you verified this so-called playground industry design advice?


That's simply not true, so why would you make the claim? Visit the excellent playground in Blossom's Field, Wash Common, installed by NTC a couple of years ago - complete with perimiter fence to keep the dogs out and the kids in.

Incidentally, I was told the other day that the allotments in Wash Common are getting a fence next year. Personally I think it's a hatleful idea and a complete waste of money because it'll destroy a 150 year old enclosure hedge that just needs some gapping up and proper maintenance and allotmenteers can do that for themselves - growing stuff is what we do afterall. So why not use that money and let us manage our own hedge?

Your not seriously going to turn this into a bloody allotment thread are you? PLEASE NO MORE!!

It is true what he said, the new park at Fifth road does not have a fence, the new park at Shaw does not have a fence, when they built the new park at Donnington they never added a fence.....List goes on.

[Simon Kirby]

Your not seriously going to turn this into a bloody allotment thread are you? PLEASE NO MORE!!

It is true what he said, the new park at Fifth road does not have a fence, the new park at Shaw does not have a fence, when they built the new park at Donnington they never added a fence.....List goes on.

The claim is that playground industry advice is to not fence playgrounds, and to support that position it was evidenced that playgrounds built recently by NTC have been built without fencing. While it's possible that some playgrounds may have been fenced, Blossom's Field playground was built without fencing, so the latter statement is false and the former questionable.

I raise the issue of the allotment fence because in addition to the supposed industry advice, another reason for not fencing the Vicky Park playground is a lack of money, and I put forward a proposal to use the allotment fence money to fence the playground, and to justify the proposal I explained why a fence around the allotments was unnecessary and undisirable.

[Rosewinelover]

The claim is that playground industry advice is to not fence playgrounds, and to support that position it was evidenced that playgrounds built recently by NTC have been built without fencing. While it's possible that some playgrounds may have been fenced, Blossom's Field playground was built without fencing, so the latter statement is false and the former questionable.

I raise the issue of the allotment fence because in addition to the supposed industry advice, another reason for not fencing the Vicky Park playground is a lack of money, and I put forward a proposal to use the allotment fence money to fence the playground, and to justify the proposal I explained why a fence around the allotments was unnecessary and undisirable.

Simon, you said to RG that it was not true that they do not do fencing around parks...I backed up what he said that they do not fence all parks.

This thread is about fencing on parks, not allotments...so for once lets keep to the subject.

[Simon Kirby]

Simon, you said to RG that it was not true that they do not do fencing around parks...I backed up what he said that they do not fence all parks.

Read what I said. RG claimed that NTC's recently built playgrounds were not fenced, and yet Blossom's Field playground was recently built by NTC with a fence around it.

[Rosewinelover]

Read what I said. RG claimed that NTC's recently built playgrounds were not fenced, and yet Blossom's Field playground was recently built by NTC with a fence around it.

Yes, I know what you said, you said he was wrong, Maybe you should read back? NTC have also built the playgrounds I mentioned which are not fenced. You are mentioning 1 playground out of all the others, or am I wrong and NTC have nothing to do with the other parks that were rebuilt?

[Richard Garvie]

Simon, the most recent parks built have no fence (they quoted two or three to me). The council was given advice at a committee meeting which Ifor Sheldon rightly challenged. I still think there should be a fence, even if the advise is not to have one.

I have did a google search and found something from Rospa, but the advice in question was presented at a committee meeting and that is documented by this website. Have a look, but I don't think it's a cae of councils being told not to have them, just that they need not be required. Interesting that the parks in Thatcham which never had fencing have recently had fencing installed. I'm not sure if there is a specific reason why they made that decision other than it appears to be an added barrier of protection for those using the parks.

[NWNREADER]

Simon, the most recent parks built have no fence (they quoted two or three to me). The council was given advice at a committee meeting which Ifor Sheldon rightly challenged. I still think there should be a fence, even if the advise is not to have one.

I have did a google search and found something from Rospa, but the advice in question was presented at a committee meeting and that is documented by this website. Have a look, but I don't think it's a cae of councils being told not to have them, just that they need not be required. Interesting that the parks in Thatcham which never had fencing have recently had fencing installed. I'm not sure if there is a specific reason why they made that decision other than it appears to be an added barrier of protection for those using the parks.

I think the query is what source the Council were guided by and who presented it, and whether the fact that the 'industry' is not united was mentioned. The quality of the process more than the decision made. Maybe the council were looking for a reason not to put up a fence so were happy to follow an advice that supported that desire. Maybe the presenter did not want a fence so only presented that evidence......
The process is not limited to the minor issue of whether there is a fence round a playground or not, it is about how the Council reaches its decisions.

[Simon Kirby]

The process is not limited to the minor issue of whether there is a fence round a playground or not, it is about how the Council reaches its decisions.

Exactly so.

[Andy Capp]

So is the decision one of 'keeping up with the Joneses', or one of safety? Vanity or practicality? It seems to be a common theme with the councils.

[NWNREADER]

So is the decision one of 'keeping up with the Joneses', or one of safety?

No decision should ever be about chasing a fashion, although the way Governments have funded Councils to do the latest 'good idea' may have created the situation where Councillors are programmed to operate that way.
Safety is important, not in a manic Elfin Safety way - let the Pixies look after themselves - but in a way that shows adult responsibility. Knowing how quickly children can move I reckon the proximity of the pond and canal makes a fence a sound idea.

[Andy Capp]

What the council have done is not explained then reason properly (if indeed they have been asked anyway). Perhaps not having a fence idea is to try and break down some of this officious H&S rhetoric people complain of?



Talking of officious: any one seen Cllr, er, I mean panda lately?