Second referendum Options

[Berkshirelad]

Andorra doesn't find it a problem.

Nor Monaco

[newres]

The 'Irish border' point is a sub issue. If Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland believe that they don't want a formal customs border, then again, there is a simple choice for the Northern province - join politically with Southern Ireland. Scotland as a 'province' voted to remain in the referendum, but has to accept the will of the majority in the other provinces of the UK.

However if the UK Government for whatever reason believes having a hard border is a showstopper, then they will not choose to leave without the deal. Nonetheless, that sub decision hasn't yet been taken.

Frankly, like many others, I can't see what's wrong with a formal border - Switzerland manages pretty well.

Because a formal border could result in the resumption of "The Troubles". A hard border would be a betrayal of the republican population and of an international treaty. I can't believe you are either so ignorant or obtuse.

[Mr Brown]

Because a formal border could result in the resumption of "The Troubles". A hard border would be a betrayal of the republican population and of an international treaty. I can't believe you are either so ignorant or obtuse.

Those are ungrounded assumptions. Please try to resist making unjustified personal remarks which just serve to demean you and any counter opinion you might hold.

[Berkshirelad]

And just to add to all these 'hard border' confrontations:-

1) the UK (inc NI) and Eire have the Common Travel Agreement (CTA) which long predates the EU;
2) the NI Peace Process (aka the Good Friday Agreement) requires that Stormont be a party to any changes to the border, etc. Problem is, Stormont isn't sitting since being dissolved due to Sinn Fein's sulking.

[Biker1]

Please try to resist making unjustified personal remarks which just serve to demean you and any counter opinion you might hold.

Good luck with that.
Others have tried to no avail!

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Good luck with that.
Others have tried to no avail!

Newres is more intelligent than you.
His views only matter.
You should know that by now.🤣

[newres]

Newres is more intelligent than you.
His views only matter.
You should know that by now.🤣

To be fair, the comment actually was either obtuse or ignorant and stating as much is not insulting. Snowflakes everywhere!

[Andy1]

Regardless of whether you voted to stay or leave originally. Would it be right to have a second referendum without 'Leave without a deal' as an option?

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Regardless of whether you voted to stay or leave originally. Would it be right to have a second referendum without 'Leave without a deal' as an option?

Article 50 will be revoked without a vote and millions of people will be so disenfranchised that democracy itself will be dead. I also say this again. This will set a precedent. If Corbyn wins a GE and the economists and "intelligent" people say it will be a disaster then he should never be allowed near No. 10. What's good for the goose is good for the gander....

[je suis Charlie]

Article 50 will be revoked without a vote and millions of people will be so disenfranchised that democracy itself will be dead. I also say this again. This will set a precedent. If Corbyn wins a GE and the economists and "intelligent" people say it will be a disaster then he should never be allowed near No. 10. What's good for the goose is good for the gander....

We had some politico on TV this morning basically saying that they have Britain's best interests at heart and the the issue was too large and two complex to allow the electorate to decide. Simpering, condescending ****. They are making sure we never trust another politician ever again. Politics is dying in this country.

[James_Trinder]

Regardless of whether you voted to stay or leave originally. Would it be right to have a second referendum without 'Leave without a deal' as an option?

No, it wouldn't. The only thing that you need to bear in mind though is that the more options that you present the less likely that there will be a clear majority for any of them.

[je suis Charlie]

Still a chance we could crash out with no deal this week.

[Rdg]

No, it wouldn't. The only thing that you need to bear in mind though is that the more options that you present the less likely that there will be a clear majority for any of them.

How about a legally binding referendum with 2 questions (which I think are neutral in phrasing)

Qu1 Do you agree with the deal on the table (assume May's for now) Yes / No

Qu2. If and only if >50% reject the deal would you rather Leave No Deal / Remain

To top it off a further legal promise

For the next 5 General Elections a supplemental question to appear on the ballot - "Should the EU membership question be re-opened ?" with a 60% threshold to do that - that way whether we stay or go nobody can argue there is no chance of people changing later BUT it would also take it away from the normal manifestos/day to day business of the parties/MP's and stop Brexit sucking the life out of politics in the UK for the next 20 years

[je suis Charlie]

The chance of the EU allowing any discussion on "leaving later" is a non starter, this is it, either stay or go. The only advantage of going now is the EU will at some stage listen to us if we want back in. If we stay now, that's it, locked in.
Don't forget, for many people it's not leaving the EU as is, it's leaving the EU as it will become, 15 - 20 years down the primrose path when we're shackled to a European super state, funding a separate European army, having tax decisions made in Brussels, merely being some kind of vassal state, that's what scares some people.

[Rdg]

The chance of the EU allowing any discussion on "leaving later" is a non starter, this is it, either stay or go. The only advantage of going now is the EU will at some stage listen to us if we want back in. If we stay now, that's it, locked in.
Don't forget, for many people it's not leaving the EU as is, it's leaving the EU as it will become, 15 - 20 years down the primrose path when we're shackled to a European super state, funding a separate European army, having tax decisions made in Brussels, merely being some kind of vassal state, that's what scares some people.

Largely based on misquotes, scare stories and outright lies - if anything us leaving makes that more likely (we have a veto and could veto any plan to remove our veto) but the story about an EU army came out of Trump threatening to withdraw some of the US support for Nato. That is one man I fear more than every EU politician and buerocrat combined and Brexit puts up firmly in his pocket

[je suis Charlie]

Largely based on misquotes, scare stories and outright lies - if anything us leaving makes that more likely (we have a veto and could veto any plan to remove our veto) but the story about an EU army came out of Trump threatening to withdraw some of the US support for Nato. That is one man I fear more than every EU politician and buerocrat combined and Brexit puts up firmly in his pocket

"STRASBOURG — German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Tuesday endorsed the creation of an EU army, siding with French President Emmanuel Macron whose similar call in recent days drew a fusillade of wrathful tweets from U.S. President Donald Trump.

Merkel threw her support behind the idea in an address to the European Parliament, part of a series of leaders’ speeches on the future of Europe."

And,

"EMMANUEL Macron insisted the European Union must dial up plans for a "real European army" to ensure the member states are protected from external threats."

And,

"In November, French president Emmanuel Macron warned that Europeans cannot be protected without a “true, European army” to defend the EU from China, Russia and even the US."

All from different sources mind.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

"STRASBOURG — German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Tuesday endorsed the creation of an EU army, siding with French President Emmanuel Macron whose similar call in recent days drew a fusillade of wrathful tweets from U.S. President Donald Trump.

Merkel threw her support behind the idea in an address to the European Parliament, part of a series of leaders’ speeches on the future of Europe."

And,

"EMMANUEL Macron insisted the European Union must dial up plans for a "real European army" to ensure the member states are protected from external threats."

And,

"In November, French president Emmanuel Macron warned that Europeans cannot be protected without a “true, European army” to defend the EU from China, Russia and even the US."

All from different sources mind.

And when remainers 18 year old sons and daughters get conscripted I will laugh. Very loudly.😂😂😂

[je suis Charlie]

I'll laugh when they all realise how much is gonna come out of THEIR pockets to pay for all the grandiose schemes. 😂

[Andy Capp]

Tories doing just as the last Labour Party did: they giveth then taketh away.

[je suis Charlie]

Tories doing just as the last Labour Party did: they giveth then taketh away.

It's fascinating really, I mean how in all that's holy did we ever get into this mess? It's genuinely been like watching a chimps tea party on a bad day when all the chimps decided it would be cool to **** in the teapot and wipe their ***** with the tablecloth. It's a complete and utter display of ****witterery.