We want a Splash Pad!, NTC's version of austerity. Options

[The Hatter]

That fifty thousand would pay for the couple of people who are going from the Tourist Office. They must be really upset.

[user23]

It's managed for the council though and therefore its standards are "council" standards - poor customer service. Weren't there small children disappearing from the summer school recently? The skatepark is rife with teenage drinking and weed smoking. Visit a privately run skatepark and see if that happens there.

No, it's run buy a private company who manage leisure centres across the country, to their standards.

You should read this if you're actually interested in the private/public sector debate.

The evidence shows no significant difference in efficiency between public and privately owned companies in public services. This is true both for privatisations by sale and privatisations through outsourcing or PPPs. In fact although outsourcing might mean cheaper services in the short term, there’s a knock-on effect on morale and the quality of service provided, and in the longer term you lose flexibility and control.

[The Hatter]

Don't the Council manage the standard?

[On the edge]

No, it's run buy a private company who manage leisure centres across the country, to their standards.

You should read this if you're actually interested in the private/public sector debate.

The evidence shows no significant difference in efficiency between public and privately owned companies in public services. This is true both for privatisations by sale and privatisations through outsourcing or PPPs. In fact although outsourcing might mean cheaper services in the short term, there’s a knock-on effect on morale and the quality of service provided, and in the longer term you lose flexibility and control.

That's a pretty interesting report and a subject worth a thread on its own.

[newres]

No, it's run buy a private company who manage leisure centres across the country.

You should read this if you're actually interested in the private/public sector debate.

The evidence shows no significant difference in efficiency between public and privately owned companies in public services. This is true both for privatisations by sale and privatisations through outsourcing or PPPs. In fact although outsourcing might mean cheaper services in the short term, there’s a knock-on effect on morale and the quality of service provided, and in the longer term you lose flexibility and control.

Exactly, when a private company takes over a council service, they run it to the same standard as the council. In other words just as badly - but for less money so they can cream the profit.

[user23]

Exactly, when a private company takes over a council service, they run it to the same standard as the council. In other words just as badly - but for less money so they can cream the profit.

No, that's really not the case. The reason why lots of outsourcing or partnership deals fall apart is because the private sector company can't make the service more efficient and then "cream the profit" as you put it, so they either have to offer an inferior service, or not make their money. Either way it's a fail and sometimes ends in an early termination because of the private sector partner not delivering on their contract.

One such example is the deal Cornwall Council signed with BT.

[On the edge]

No, that's really not the case. The reason why lots of outsourcing or partnership deals fall apart is because the private sector company can't make the service more efficient and then "cream the profit" as you put it, so they either have to offer an inferior service, or not make their money. Either way it's a fail and sometimes ends in an early termination because of the private sector partner not delivering on their contract.

One such example is the deal Cornwall Council signed with BT.

There are examples from Europe where 'the community' put their own fibre in to deliver broadband. That shouldn't be beyond us here in Newbury either with arch rival of BT on our doorstep!

[user23]

There are examples from Europe where 'the community' put their own fibre in to deliver broadband. That shouldn't be beyond us here in Newbury either with arch rival of BT on our doorstep!

The deal wasn't to provide broadband, if you read the BBC article I linked to you'll see it was to provide IT, HR and other council services.

[newres]

No, that's really not the case. The reason why lots of outsourcing or partnership deals fall apart is because the private sector company can't make the service more efficient and then "cream the profit" as you put it, so they either have to offer an inferior service, or not make their money. Either way it's a fail and sometimes ends in an early termination because of the private sector partner not delivering on their contract.

One such example is the deal Cornwall Council signed with BT.

That's because they have to use the same down in the mouth people with poor perceptions of providing a service as they bring their employment rights with them. Silk purses and pig's ears.

[blackdog]

No, that's really not the case. The reason why lots of outsourcing or partnership deals fall apart is because the private sector company can't make the service more efficient and then "cream the profit" as you put it, so they either have to offer an inferior service, or not make their money. Either way it's a fail and sometimes ends in an early termination because of the private sector partner not delivering on their contract.

One such example is the deal Cornwall Council signed with BT.

Don't need to go as far as Cornwall for an example - WBC had to make an enormous U turn a few years back and bring 400 staff back into their employ.

http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/182895...utsourcing-deal

[On the edge]

That's because they have to use the same down in the mouth people with poor perceptions of providing a service as they bring their employment rights with them. Silk purses and pig's ears.

Interesting point that. Anyone can deliver a service for a lower price if they chisel away the wages of the people physically delivering. In the case of many Council services, these are low paid low skill jobs anyway. So TUPE is simply protecting those who can't protect themselves. Arguably any 'outsourcing' contract that succeeds only demonstrates that the direction and management beforehand was poor and ineffective.

[On the edge]

http://www.findmeagrant.org/wberks/pdfapp....49-a2cdf4cd3a86

What a wheeze! I found this on line, it seems the Splash Pad was actually WBCs idea! This even mentions the £55k they intend to spend on it. So, simply slip the idea and the money over to NTC and off it goes. They even had me thinking that NTC had had an original idea.

Cuts wot cuts?

[Andy Capp]

In a recent meeting a Lib Dem had the cheek to ask about the funding of this (even though he probably knew the answer), but the Tory chair got the hump and accused him of politicising the issue.

[newres]

Where's it going to be sited? There can't be much space left in Victoria Park can there?

[blackdog]

Where's it going to be sited? There can't be much space left in Victoria Park can there?

According to the grant application it was to be sited in Goldwell Park.

[user23]

Don't need to go as far as Cornwall for an example - WBC had to make an enormous U turn a few years back and bring 400 staff back into their employ.

http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/182895...utsourcing-deal

From that news article it looks like it was the private sector company that had to make an enormous U turn, not WBC.

[On the edge]

From that news article it looks like it was the private sector company that had to make an enormous U turn, not WBC.

Again, what would be wrong with an initiative from WBC to say Reading or even the West Berks Parishes to run admin or IT services for them? Turn the outsourcing fetish to your own advantage. I know of one Water Company at least that actually does that

[blackdog]

From that news article it looks like it was the private sector company that had to make an enormous U turn, not WBC.

Amey gave up - but WBC also gave up, they didn't try to find another contractor. Their grand scheme failed spectacularly.

[Simon Kirby]

Again, what would be wrong with an initiative from WBC to say Reading or even the West Berks Parishes to run admin or IT services for them? Turn the outsourcing fetish to your own advantage. I know of one Water Company at least that actually does that

I wouls say that IT support is one of those functions which is quite well suited to out-sourcing, at lease for small to medium-s sized organisations, because it's technically specialised, relatively lightly used per-user, and not generally a core competance of the business. Out-sourced IT can be a much better option because of the ecconomy of scale, so you're being supported by people who understand what they're doing and are not generalists. IT strategy is a more challenging issue because that's not always out-sourced when perhaps it should be.

Other out-sourcing makes very much less sense to me - take grounds maintenance for example. It's not technically demanding and there is no economy of scale so the only argument I can see for out-sourcing is either that the internal management is utterly useless or it just likes spending money, and maybe both.

[On the edge]

I wouls say that IT support is one of those functions which is quite well suited to out-sourcing, at lease for small to medium-s sized organisations, because it's technically specialised, relatively lightly used per-user, and not generally a core competance of the business. Out-sourced IT can be a much better option because of the ecconomy of scale, so you're being supported by people who understand what they're doing and are not generalists. IT strategy is a more challenging issue because that's not always out-sourced when perhaps it should be.

Other out-sourcing makes very much less sense to me - take grounds maintenance for example. It's not technically demanding and there is no economy of scale so the only argument I can see for out-sourcing is either that the internal management is utterly useless or it just likes spending money, and maybe both.

I'd argue that buying in a service you aren't really qualified to deliver isn't outsourcing, it's simply common sense. The same argument for not directly employing other specialised expertise. IT technical strategy certainly sits here, for the most part once determined only needs review and refresh after a period of years.

There is a management issue though, but it's manifest in many older organisations who used to have big data processing operations. That is, the old specialist IT shop still exists. Today, most firms use configurable packages; which competent end users can quickly configure and maintain to provide the 'business overlay' - i.e., we want to send a letter automatically at a point in a process. The biggest example of this are the web site managers. Yes, these are useful internal roles and it might make operational sense to sit them together. They aren't specialist IT though - which is where the perception problem cuts in.