IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> 29th March 2019, Independence Day
TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 23 2018, 06:00 PM
Post #1


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 4,327
Joined: 15-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 60



Lets have a National holiday!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
SirWilliam
post Jun 24 2018, 06:32 PM
Post #2


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,467
Joined: 6-March 14
From: West Berks
Member No.: 10,341



Once again the Brexit division rekindles old hostilities amongst the great unwashed. Just because the media singled out a few "bovver boyze" to justify the immigration factor in the leave vote instead of actually asking those who were quite simply fed up with the creeping federalism being propagated by Berlin and it's sycophantic followers, we are now branded racist reactionaries by those "who know best".
Maybe we need European workers, ( least they work ), maybe not, but we are hardly going to shoot ourselves in the foot by putting a "no entry" sign at Dover while potatoes rot in the fields.
Is it too much to ask forum contributors to form a consensus on how best to leave as opposed to this silly name calling.


--------------------
Si non prius succederent.......... relinquere
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
On the edge
post Jun 26 2018, 06:01 AM
Post #3


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 7,847
Joined: 23-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 98



QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 24 2018, 07:32 PM) *
Once again the Brexit division rekindles old hostilities amongst the great unwashed. Just because the media singled out a few "bovver boyze" to justify the immigration factor in the leave vote instead of actually asking those who were quite simply fed up with the creeping federalism being propagated by Berlin and it's sycophantic followers, we are now branded racist reactionaries by those "who know best".
Maybe we need European workers, ( least they work ), maybe not, but we are hardly going to shoot ourselves in the foot by putting a "no entry" sign at Dover while potatoes rot in the fields.
Is it too much to ask forum contributors to form a consensus on how best to leave as opposed to this silly name calling.


How best we leave?

Up to now we’ve been negotiating our exit like a civil contract. Talking to the EU on the basis as supplicant; let us know what you want to let us go. If we took the key EU imports to UK and did a Trump, and also suggested we’d liberalise our money markets considerably, the boot would be on the other foot. There is no nice way to negotiaye a big deal.


--------------------
Know your place!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
newres
post Jun 27 2018, 05:19 AM
Post #4


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,674
Joined: 27-November 12
Member No.: 8,961



QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 26 2018, 07:01 AM) *
How best we leave?

Up to now we’ve been negotiating our exit like a civil contract. Talking to the EU on the basis as supplicant; let us know what you want to let us go. If we took the key EU imports to UK and did a Trump, and also suggested we’d liberalise our money markets considerably, the boot would be on the other foot. There is no nice way to negotiaye a big deal.

But that isn’t going well. On the first round Trump’s imposition of steel tariffs has resulted in counter measures. If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over. And there will be unintended consequences such as Harley Davidson shifting production away from the US. Negotiating in the real world isn’t about pissing the other side off as the other side can simply walk away. It’s about being realistic. As hard as it is for the Brexiteers to accept, the UK has a weak hand. We’ve now got major world players telling it like it is. If we don’t stay in the single market and customs union hundreds of thousands of jobs will go.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
On the edge
post Jun 27 2018, 06:28 AM
Post #5


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 7,847
Joined: 23-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 98



QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 06:19 AM) *
But that isn’t going well. On the first round Trump’s imposition of steel tariffs has resulted in counter measures. If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over. And there will be unintended consequences such as Harley Davidson shifting production away from the US. Negotiating in the real world isn’t about pissing the other side off as the other side can simply walk away. It’s about being realistic. As hard as it is for the Brexiteers to accept, the UK has a weak hand. We’ve now got major world players telling it like it is. If we don’t stay in the single market and customs union hundreds of thousands of jobs will go.


Exactly, If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over, then we'd be negotiating for real. Remember, the first response isn't the closing outcome. Believe me, yes, people are worries about our leaving causing job losses; to my knowledge in Germany and Holland for sure. Competing in World markets is hard, always was, always will be. Ironically, this was and still is, a major EU Commission concern, the EU's own outlook for its place in the emerging World economy isn't looking good at all.


--------------------
Know your place!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
newres
post Jun 27 2018, 07:23 AM
Post #6


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,674
Joined: 27-November 12
Member No.: 8,961



QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 07:28 AM) *
Exactly, If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over, then we'd be negotiating for real. Remember, the first response isn't the closing outcome. Believe me, yes, people are worries about our leaving causing job losses; to my knowledge in Germany and Holland for sure. Competing in World markets is hard, always was, always will be. Ironically, this was and still is, a major EU Commission concern, the EU's own outlook for its place in the emerging World economy isn't looking good at all.

That's not negotiating though. That's economic warfare. Have you ever negotiated in business? It's not hostile. You're confusing a messy divorce in which emotions rule with negotiation.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
On the edge
post Jun 27 2018, 08:03 AM
Post #7


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 7,847
Joined: 23-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 98



QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 08:23 AM) *
That's not negotiating though. That's economic warfare. Have you ever negotiated in business? It's not hostile. You're confusing a messy divorce in which emotions rule with negotiation.


Yes, what I did for many years. Sorry but very big contracts usually are, if they aren't then it's a roll over! To cope with this is one reason we teach kids games at school, any competitive sport, by definition, is 'hostile' because both sides want to win. If we take the EU, they are playing exactly by these rules, hence using the negotiators they've chosen. I'd argue that the way we are negotiating us akin to Manchester United playing Thatcham Town!


--------------------
Know your place!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
newres
post Jun 27 2018, 11:11 AM
Post #8


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,674
Joined: 27-November 12
Member No.: 8,961



QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 09:03 AM) *
Yes, what I did for many years. Sorry but very big contracts usually are, if they aren't then it's a roll over! To cope with this is one reason we teach kids games at school, any competitive sport, by definition, is 'hostile' because both sides want to win. If we take the EU, they are playing exactly by these rules, hence using the negotiators they've chosen. I'd argue that the way we are negotiating us akin to Manchester United playing Thatcham Town!

Funny really. When the inevitable happens and we either obey the rules of the club or leave empty handed you and others will blame the negotiating rather than the reality that you can’t be in a club without following the club rules. They aren’t going to give us access unless we accept free movement and the other things. TM is in an impossible situation.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
On the edge
post Jun 27 2018, 12:24 PM
Post #9


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 7,847
Joined: 23-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 98



QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 12:11 PM) *
Funny really. When the inevitable happens and we either obey the rules of the club or leave empty handed you and others will blame the negotiating rather than the reality that you can’t be in a club without following the club rules. They aren’t going to give us access unless we accept free movement and the other things. TM is in an impossible situation.


No, it's not worth being in a club where the members don't play by the rules, for me, that's the reason we are coming out. The EU members simply don't.

Like Sir Austin Chamberlain, we've always played the game and we've always lost.

Just one small proof - London Electricity was purchased by the French nationalised electricity supplier (EdF) although there were several other private bids. Could a private UK utility take over EdF, er no, of course not. What did the EU do aboutthe that...........

Just like the imperialisim it sought to emulate, the EU has had its day.


--------------------
Know your place!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
newres
post Jun 27 2018, 02:43 PM
Post #10


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,674
Joined: 27-November 12
Member No.: 8,961



QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 01:24 PM) *
No, it's not worth being in a club where the members don't play by the rules, for me, that's the reason we are coming out. The EU members simply don't.

Like Sir Austin Chamberlain, we've always played the game and we've always lost.

Just one small proof - London Electricity was purchased by the French nationalised electricity supplier (EdF) although there were several other private bids. Could a private UK utility take over EdF, er no, of course not. What did the EU do aboutthe that...........

Just like the imperialisim it sought to emulate, the EU has had its day.

If you can tell me where EU rules were breached by the French I'll join you in condemning it. I don't have that kind of knowledge. My own experience is that often it's our implementation of the EU rules that handicaps us. Normally our interpretation is as free market as possible because that's our general ethos (well our government's). The French tend to protect their economy and farmers and even small traders. As long as it's withing the rules it's all cool in the kaftan.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
On the edge
post Jun 27 2018, 05:37 PM
Post #11


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 7,847
Joined: 23-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 98



QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 03:43 PM) *
If you can tell me where EU rules were breached by the French I'll join you in condemning it. I don't have that kind of knowledge. My own experience is that often it's our implementation of the EU rules that handicaps us. Normally our interpretation is as free market as possible because that's our general ethos (well our government's). The French tend to protect their economy and farmers and even small traders. As long as it's withing the rules it's all cool in the kaftan.


Yes, that's exactly right. The French and ironically the Germans are well versed in interpreting the prolix and onerous rules to protect their nation state interests, often to the detriment of free market. In the case I mentioned, the 'rules' comprise several fine print volumes.

I'd agree the difficulty is our Civil Service who interpret 'to the letter', in other words following English common law principles which is based on Mosaic law. The EU nation state legal systems tend to be based on Roman law, which is far more codified and open to interpretation. So, it's a bit like two teams trying to play hockey, with one team playing by the rules of lawn tennis on the basis that both games use bats and balls.

We've had nigh on 40 years to get the rules changed and make things better, but we haven't managed to do that. Again, Germany, France, Italy still have mass motor manufacturers whereas we don't.

In business terms at least, we have more of a chance of success with the emerging major economies in Asia / China / Inda on our own than with the EU, which is now too large to be as agile as new markets need.

I also agree that the decade plus it will take us to get up to speed will be economically difficult and possibly quite painful, but the end result will be a brighter long term future. First world dominance is sinking - we are safer in our own uncomfortable lifeboat.


--------------------
Know your place!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
newres
post Jun 27 2018, 06:16 PM
Post #12


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,674
Joined: 27-November 12
Member No.: 8,961



QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 06:37 PM) *
Yes, that's exactly right. The French and ironically the Germans are well versed in interpreting the prolix and onerous rules to protect their nation state interests, often to the detriment of free market. In the case I mentioned, the 'rules' comprise several fine print volumes.

I'd agree the difficulty is our Civil Service who interpret 'to the letter', in other words following English common law principles which is based on Mosaic law. The EU nation state legal systems tend to be based on Roman law, which is far more codified and open to interpretation. So, it's a bit like two teams trying to play hockey, with one team playing by the rules of lawn tennis on the basis that both games use bats and balls.

We've had nigh on 40 years to get the rules changed and make things better, but we haven't managed to do that. Again, Germany, France, Italy still have mass motor manufacturers whereas we don't.

In business terms at least, we have more of a chance of success with the emerging major economies in Asia / China / Inda on our own than with the EU, which is now too large to be as agile as new markets need.


I also agree that the decade plus it will take us to get up to speed will be economically difficult and possibly quite painful, but the end result will be a brighter long term future. First world dominance is sinking - we are safer in our own uncomfortable lifeboat.

The bit in red doesn't make sense. We trade independently of the EU. The EU negotiates tariffs and so on, but we trade at company level not national or continent level. I think broad claims like that are just rhetoric.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 27 2018, 06:32 PM
Post #13


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 4,327
Joined: 15-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 60



QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 07:16 PM) *
The bit in red doesn't make sense. We trade independently of the EU. The EU negotiates tariffs and so on, but we trade at company level not national or continent level. I think broad claims like that are just rhetoric.


I don't. People voted in general on a sovereignty and anti immigration ticket. You may not like the outcome but if they reneged on the referendum you wouldn't have 100000 Marching in London, you'd have millions. The geney is out of the bottle and no matter how much you want to put the stopper back in, it ain't gonna happen. So either accept it and make the best of what you perceive to be a bad situation or think seriously about relocating to the EU. For your own sanity. You can help Jean Claude with his bar bill.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dannyboy
post Jun 28 2018, 04:52 PM
Post #14


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,056
Joined: 14-May 09
From: Bouvetøya
Member No.: 51



QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 27 2018, 07:32 PM) *
People voted in general on a sovereignty and anti immigration ticket.



UK sovereignty was never under threat from the EU & the UK will, post Brexit, still need workers from overseas who will come here & work. Trebles all round.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
On the edge
post Jun 28 2018, 06:10 PM
Post #15


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 7,847
Joined: 23-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 98



QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 28 2018, 05:52 PM) *
UK sovereignty was never under threat from the EU & the UK will, post Brexit, still need workers from overseas who will come here & work. Trebles all round.


Depends what you define as Sovereignty. We have a Sovereign and look at the huge powers she has laugh.gif

The EU made no bones about it, 'ever closer union' was and still is the ultimate aim. When that happens doubtless we'll have a ceremonial Westminister with as much power as the County of Berkshire!

We've always had workers from overseas, even before we joined the EU. Don't think very many thought we'd not need overseasj workers when we come out. That flys in the face of past history. For instance, an MP called Powell I think, arranged for large numbers to come to help run our Health service back in the 60s.


--------------------
Know your place!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dannyboy
post Jun 29 2018, 09:47 AM
Post #16


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,056
Joined: 14-May 09
From: Bouvetøya
Member No.: 51



QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 28 2018, 07:10 PM) *
We've always had workers from overseas, even before we joined the EU. Don't think very many thought we'd not need overseasj workers when we come out. That flys in the face of past history. For instance, an MP called Powell I think, arranged for large numbers to come to help run our Health service back in the 60s.



which makes TDH's comment about immigration being the main reason people voted to leave all the more ironic.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
On the edge
post Jun 29 2018, 11:23 AM
Post #17


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 7,847
Joined: 23-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 98



QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 29 2018, 10:47 AM) *
which makes TDH's comment about immigration being the main reason people voted to leave all the more ironic.


Yes, that's the sort of trouble you get into when mainstream politicians start trading misinformation and fake data. It means people with other agendas can manipulate the situation for their own ends. Happens all round. For instance Nigel Farage publicity about funding NHS condemned by the Chancellor only to be adopted 'now the time is right' as official policy!

I've just been talking to people in the UKs rust belt in the Midlands. Looking forward to a return of manufacture, foodstuffs drinks et all in the UK, rather than being tanked from Holland or France. When asked who is going to work the factories as we haven't got enough labour, there was a simple answer. The secret is in the word controlled, the door isn't simply wide open, you just have to knock.

Certainly makes you think. Why aren't the bosses twittering about Brexit starting to think of investing in the UK for once?


--------------------
Know your place!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
newres
post Jun 29 2018, 01:01 PM
Post #18


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,674
Joined: 27-November 12
Member No.: 8,961



QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 29 2018, 12:23 PM) *
Yes, that's the sort of trouble you get into when mainstream politicians start trading misinformation and fake data. It means people with other agendas can manipulate the situation for their own ends. Happens all round. For instance Nigel Farage publicity about funding NHS condemned by the Chancellor only to be adopted 'now the time is right' as official policy!

I've just been talking to people in the UKs rust belt in the Midlands. Looking forward to a return of manufacture, foodstuffs drinks et all in the UK, rather than being tanked from Holland or France. When asked who is going to work the factories as we haven't got enough labour, there was a simple answer. The secret is in the word controlled, the door isn't simply wide open, you just have to knock.

Certainly makes you think. Why aren't the bosses twittering about Brexit starting to think of investing in the UK for once?

Because they want to be able to trade tariff free into Europe perchance?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 29 2018, 02:19 PM
Post #19


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 4,327
Joined: 15-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 60



QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 02:01 PM) *
Because they want to be able to trade tariff free into Europe perchance?

Not all traders biggest matket is the EU. The way you bang on anyone would think we export to them more than we import. Its a two way street. I dont think German car manufactuters are going to be keen on punishing us. You really are Mr project fear. Anyways we are out. No turning back. 👍☀😂🍻🍺🍸
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
On the edge
post Jun 29 2018, 02:45 PM
Post #20


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 7,847
Joined: 23-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 98



QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03:19 PM) *
Not all traders biggest matket is the EU. The way you bang on anyone would think we export to them more than we import. Its a two way street. I dont think German car manufactuters are going to be keen on punishing us. You really are Mr project fear. Anyways we are out. No turning back. ��☀��������


We really ought to be promoting UK business; particularly manufacturing.

No reason why we shouldn't see HP sauce, confectionery, dairy products, beer etc.etc.etc. produced here. Just how much diesel fuel that would save. Apparently the Irish are getting a tad worried that their lorry route to our east coast ports is at risk.

Some big sea carriers have been constructed, so far less 'cross UK' lorry movements; good news for our emissions targets.

Then Mr Trump is apparently threatening Harley Davidson with some massive taxes because it's been slagging him off about his imposition of tariffs against the EU. Bring it on, let's hear it for Triumph; still going strong.

Talking of bikes, anyone heard of a couple of lightweight machines - MUTT? 125cc and 250cc imported engines, but put together in English frames in Brum!

We'll get there if only we stop trying to go back to the past - the EU is now in terminal decline.


--------------------
Know your place!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 29 2018, 02:52 PM
Post #21


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 4,327
Joined: 15-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 60



QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 29 2018, 03:45 PM) *
We really ought to be promoting UK business; particularly manufacturing.

No reason why we shouldn't see HP sauce, confectionery, dairy products, beer etc.etc.etc. produced here. Just how much diesel fuel that would save. Apparently the Irish are getting a tad worried that their lorry route to our east coast ports is at risk.

Some big sea carriers have been constructed, so far less 'cross UK' lorry movements; good news for our emissions targets.

Then Mr Trump is apparently threatening Harley Davidson with some massive taxes because it's been slagging him off about his imposition of tariffs against the EU. Bring it on, let's hear it for Triumph; still going strong.

Talking of bikes, anyone heard of a couple of lightweight machines - MUTT? 125cc and 250cc imported engines, but put together in English frames in Brum!

We'll get there if only we stop trying to go back to the past - the EU is now in terminal decline.


To a lot in here the EU is some sort of deity rather than a corrupt unaudited bloated parady of the original common market that we joined. It just needs a reset and us leaving may precipitate that. I think it has already started a conversation amongst the other EU stalwarts. Being anti EU is not being xenophobic or anti Europe.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
newres
post Jun 29 2018, 03:25 PM
Post #22


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,674
Joined: 27-November 12
Member No.: 8,961



QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03:52 PM) *
Being anti EU is not being xenophobic or anti Europe.

True, but every xenophobe IS anti EU. And it's rare during online "debates" that those that are anti-EU don't bring immigration into it. Immigration levels will only change if job levels change.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 29 2018, 06:19 PM
Post #23


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 4,327
Joined: 15-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 60



QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 04:25 PM) *
True, but every xenophobe IS anti EU. And it's rare during online "debates" that those that are anti-EU don't bring immigration into it. Immigration levels will only change if job levels change.

And every liberal wants open borders as long as they dont have to put immigrants up in there own homes. Talk the talk. Walk the walk.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dannyboy
post Jun 29 2018, 06:38 PM
Post #24


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,056
Joined: 14-May 09
From: Bouvetøya
Member No.: 51



QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 07:19 PM) *
And every liberal wants open borders as long as they dont have to put immigrants up in there own homes. Talk the talk. Walk the walk.



We had an Afghan refugee stay with us for 5 months. Nice lad.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 29 2018, 06:59 PM
Post #25


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 4,327
Joined: 15-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 60



QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 29 2018, 07:38 PM) *
We had an Afghan refugee stay with us for 5 months. Nice lad.

Good for you...How did that come about?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dannyboy
post Jun 30 2018, 02:53 PM
Post #26


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,056
Joined: 14-May 09
From: Bouvetøya
Member No.: 51



QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 07:59 PM) *
Good for you...How did that come about?



We were asked if we'd house the lad after he was beaten up in Reading on more than one occasion. Social services thought Newbury would be better for him.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 30 2018, 03:14 PM
Post #27


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 4,327
Joined: 15-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 60



QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 30 2018, 03:53 PM) *
We were asked if we'd house the lad after he was beaten up in Reading on more than one occasion. Social services thought Newbury would be better for him.

👍 Actions speak louder than words. Applause sir. Courage of your convictions. Others should take note.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- TallDarkAndHandsome   29th March 2019   Jun 23 2018, 06:00 PM
- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 23 2018, 07...   Jun 23 2018, 08:22 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 23 2018, 09:22 PM) Li...   Jun 23 2018, 08:45 PM
|- - Andy Capp   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 23 2018, 09...   Jun 24 2018, 09:14 AM
- - SirWilliam   Let's keep marching and shouting till we not o...   Jun 24 2018, 01:43 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 24 2018, 02:43 PM...   Jun 24 2018, 02:29 PM
|- - x2lls   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 03:29 PM) Yo...   Jun 24 2018, 03:10 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 24 2018, 04:10 PM) For...   Jun 24 2018, 04:14 PM
|- - x2lls   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:14 PM) We...   Jun 24 2018, 04:29 PM
||- - newres   QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 24 2018, 05:29 PM) Sil...   Jun 24 2018, 04:35 PM
||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:35 PM) I ...   Jun 24 2018, 05:15 PM
|||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 24 2018, 06...   Jun 24 2018, 05:23 PM
|||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 06:23 PM) Fo...   Jun 24 2018, 05:36 PM
|||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 24 2018, 06...   Jun 24 2018, 05:43 PM
||- - x2lls   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:35 PM) I ...   Jun 25 2018, 12:53 AM
|- - x2lls   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:14 PM) We...   Jun 24 2018, 10:56 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 24 2018, 07:32 PM...   Jun 24 2018, 07:07 PM
||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 08:07 PM) Th...   Jun 24 2018, 08:18 PM
||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 24 2018, 09...   Jun 24 2018, 08:30 PM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 26 2018, 07:01 A...   Jun 26 2018, 09:49 AM
||- - James_Trinder   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 26 2018, 09:49 AM...   Jun 26 2018, 12:34 PM
||- - On the edge   QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Jun 26 2018, 01:34...   Jun 26 2018, 02:29 PM
||- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Jun 26 2018, 01:34...   Jun 26 2018, 05:44 PM
|||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 27 2018, 07...   Jun 28 2018, 05:20 AM
|||- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 28 2018, 07:10 P...   Jun 29 2018, 08:47 AM
||||- - On the edge   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 29 2018, 09:47 AM...   Jun 29 2018, 01:04 PM
||||- - dannyboy   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03...   Jun 29 2018, 02:42 PM
|||||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 07...   Jun 29 2018, 06:22 PM
||||||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 07:22 PM) Bu...   Jun 29 2018, 07:01 PM
||||||- - Andy Capp   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 08...   Jun 30 2018, 02:33 AM
||||||- - newres   QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 30 2018, 03:33 AM)...   Jun 30 2018, 05:23 AM
||||||- - On the edge   QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 30 2018, 03:33 AM)...   Jun 30 2018, 05:55 AM
|||||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 30 2018, 04...   Jul 1 2018, 11:07 AM
|||||- - Andy Capp   QUOTE (newres @ Jul 1 2018, 12:07 PM) Pra...   Jul 1 2018, 11:47 AM
|||||- - newres   QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jul 1 2018, 12:47 PM) ...   Jul 1 2018, 12:18 PM
|||||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jul 1 2018, 01:18 PM) You...   Jul 1 2018, 01:27 PM
|||||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jul 1 2018, 01:18 PM) You...   Jul 1 2018, 03:58 PM
|||||- - On the edge   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jul 1 2018, 04...   Jul 5 2018, 08:55 AM
|||||- - Strafin   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jul 1 2018, 04...   Jul 5 2018, 10:17 AM
|||||- - On the edge   QUOTE (Strafin @ Jul 5 2018, 11:17 AM) Ma...   Jul 5 2018, 10:33 AM
|||||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (Strafin @ Jul 5 2018, 11:17 AM) Ma...   Jul 5 2018, 07:03 PM
|||||- - dannyboy   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jul 5 2018, 08...   Jul 5 2018, 08:53 PM
||||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03...   Jun 29 2018, 02:48 PM
|||- - dannyboy   QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 29 2018, 12:23 P...   Jun 29 2018, 02:44 PM
|||- - x2lls   QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 29 2018, 03:44 PM) ...   Jun 30 2018, 12:55 AM
|||- - dannyboy   QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 30 2018, 01:55 AM) Whi...   Jun 30 2018, 02:54 PM
|||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 30 2018, 03:54 PM) ...   Jun 30 2018, 02:57 PM
||- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 07:16 PM) Th...   Jun 28 2018, 06:00 AM
|- - Andy Capp   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 03:43 PM) If...   Jun 27 2018, 07:46 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 27 2018, 08:46 PM)...   Jun 28 2018, 05:53 AM
||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 06:53 AM) As...   Jun 28 2018, 06:04 AM
||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 28 2018, 07...   Jun 28 2018, 06:08 AM
||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 07:08 AM) Do...   Jun 28 2018, 06:45 AM
||- - Biker1   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 07:08 AM) Do...   Jun 28 2018, 07:10 AM
||- - newres   QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jun 28 2018, 08:10 AM) Ph...   Jun 28 2018, 12:27 PM
||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 01:27 PM) So...   Jun 28 2018, 07:08 PM
|||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 28 2018, 08...   Jun 28 2018, 09:01 PM
|||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 10:01 PM) Oh...   Jun 28 2018, 09:42 PM
|||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 28 2018, 10...   Jun 29 2018, 04:20 AM
|||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 05:20 AM) Ho...   Jun 29 2018, 06:10 AM
||- - Biker1   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 01:27 PM) So...   Jun 29 2018, 04:58 AM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 27 2018, 08:46 PM)...   Jun 28 2018, 06:53 AM
- - x2lls   You cannot deny this is global, the BBC don't ...   Jun 25 2018, 03:08 AM
|- - Andy Capp   QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 25 2018, 04:08 AM) You...   Jun 25 2018, 08:02 AM
|- - newres   QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 25 2018, 04:08 AM) You...   Jun 25 2018, 10:17 AM
- - Strafin   I gotta ask, what are MSM's? I assume mainstre...   Jun 25 2018, 11:13 AM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (Strafin @ Jun 25 2018, 12:13 PM) I...   Jun 25 2018, 02:07 PM
|- - Strafin   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 25 2018, 03:07 PM...   Jun 25 2018, 02:29 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 25 2018, 03:07 PM...   Jun 25 2018, 05:22 PM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 25 2018, 06:22 PM) Yo...   Jun 25 2018, 05:28 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Jun 25 2018, 06:22 PM) Yo...   Jun 25 2018, 06:57 PM
- - Andy Capp   “The whole problem with the world is that fools an...   Jun 25 2018, 06:21 PM
- - Andy Capp   Amused by this: The Trouble With Identity Politics...   Jun 30 2018, 02:34 AM


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 10:20 PM