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Newbury Today Forum _ Random Rants _ Newbury Train Station, GWR, Network Rail

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 11 2017, 05:54 PM

On January 20th 2016 I was coming home from work on the 1730 from Reading to Newbury. I had had a busy day and was looking forward to a good evening.

Whilst on the train the temperature dropped dramatically. I was well wrapped up though so thought no more of it...

I arrived at Newbury Station and on exiting the station stepped on a frozen metal pole which caused me to fall. Trying to save myself from falling into the Network rail pumps that have been there for what seems like forever I put my right arm out. Whack! Phew I thought as I lay on the frozen floor. Then I tried to move. Never felt pain like it... My shoulder was badly dislocated. I cannot describe the pain. It was worse than a broken bone.... Paramedics were called, clothes were cut off including a suit and overcoat. Morphine etc was given. 3 attempts it took to get it back in at the Royal Berks. Off work for weeks and having a permanent weakness now in my shoulder is nothing compared to trying to get justice...

I tried to stupidly get some compensation for this incident as it was clearly no fault of mine. 13 months later and having contacted GWR, Newbury Train Station, Network Rail I have now been fobbed off to West Berks Council. I guess l'll just have to sue the employees on duty that day as all the big companies no longer accept liablity for anything. In the words of the donald. SEE YOU IN COURT.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 11 2017, 08:23 PM

Get ya lawyers on em! Sick em good!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 11 2017, 08:40 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 11 2017, 08:23 PM) *
Get ya lawyers on em! Sick em good!


Never had a penny off anyone in my life for anything. But when something does happen you hope that it would be straightforward to claim for something that has caused you a lot of pain, distress and expense. Not the case. I suppose if all else fails I can stand in front of a train. That would be a lot more expensive for GWR.
Who without doubt are at fault. Im so goddam angry. By the way I wont be standing in front of a train but Im beginning to understand why people do... Especially dealing with GWR. W@nkers.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 11 2017, 08:47 PM

Quick enough to take your money though angry.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 11 2017, 08:47 PM

I wish you well of it.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 11 2017, 09:04 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 11 2017, 08:47 PM) *
I wish you well of it.


Thanks chap.Needed a vent

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 11 2017, 09:35 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 11 2017, 08:40 PM) *
Never had a penny off anyone in my life for anything. But when something does happen you hope that it would be straightforward to claim for something that has caused you a lot of pain, distress and expense. Not the case. I suppose if all else fails I can stand in front of a train. That would be a lot more expensive for GWR.
Who without doubt are at fault. Im so goddam angry. By the way I wont be standing in front of a train but Im beginning to understand why people do... Especially dealing with GWR. W@nkers.

I'm sorry about your accident, not nice at all. However, if you're to get any money out of someone to compensate you for your injury you'll need to show that they were negligent in discharging their duty of care. From what you've said so far - stepping onto a frozen pavement which had frozen in a relatively sudden drop in temperature - I think you might struggle to show negligence. Best bet is probably to call one of those no-win-no-fee Jonnies as they'll see this kind of thing all the time and give you a good idea of your chances of success and represent you for free if they think you have a good claim.

Silly question probably, but you're not in a trades union are you, as they may well represent you in this.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 11 2017, 10:29 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Feb 11 2017, 09:35 PM) *
I'm sorry about your accident, not nice at all. However, if you're to get any money out of someone to compensate you for your injury you'll need to show that they were negligent in discharging their duty of care. From what you've said so far - stepping onto a frozen pavement which had frozen in a relatively sudden drop in temperature - I think you might struggle to show negligence. Best bet is probably to call one of those no-win-no-fee Jonnies as they'll see this kind of thing all the time and give you a good idea of your chances of success and represent you for free if they think you have a good claim.

Silly question probably, but you're not in a trades union are you, as they may well represent you in this.


Trade Union? Whats one of those?😮 Not a frozen pavement. A metal pole that had no place in an exit. Funnily enough it had been replaced by the next day by a rubber one and signs put up warning people.... Hopefully my accident has saved others. Shame shame shame though on these corporate scum. And people wonder why you end up with trump, le pen, brexit and co. I might even design a sign and stand outside Newbury Station. Might get some press...

Posted by: On the edge Feb 12 2017, 08:09 AM

Sad to hear about your accident and the aftermath, I certainly hope the log jam you are in starts to clear very soon.

It's perhaps an object lesson for us all. First, those who carp on about 'elf n safety' and what a waste of time. All of us need to take risk assessments very seriously and properly consider what might happen. The issues with the pole could have been foreseen, but in our own lives and work environments we all know why 'those at the coal face' simply keep quiet. Second, the complaints process; again a society self inflicted wound. How often do we hear or see people complaining about what are really discomforts - even for stuff they've done themselves. Pop into Casualty at any Hospital Saturday evening. Clearly, not your case, and I wish you success, but we 'the me' generation have done you no favours.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 12 2017, 07:49 PM

My aim is to ensure that I put enough people off travelling by train that I cost GWR more than they owe me. Much more.... They now have a war. One that I cannot win. But I can cause them damage and be a complete pain in the ****. Im going to encourage people to use other transport 24/7. Oh and I think Ill be really obtuse and act stupid. Ill block machines by pretending to not know how to use them and be vague when buying tickets. Sorry everyone. You are going to suffer now because of GWR. laugh.gif

Posted by: Cognosco Feb 12 2017, 08:35 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 12 2017, 07:49 PM) *
My aim is to ensure that I put enough people off travelling by train that I cost GWR more than they owe me. Much more.... They now have a war. One that I cannot win. But I can cause them damage and be a complete pain in the ****. Im going to encourage people to use other transport 24/7. Oh and I think Ill be really obtuse and act stupid. Ill block machines by pretending to not know how to use them and be vague when buying tickets. Sorry everyone. You are going to suffer now because of GWR. laugh.gif


Careful you may be declared vexatious! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 12 2017, 10:16 PM

Kick 'em in the profits, only language they understand.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 13 2017, 07:43 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 12 2017, 10:16 PM) *
Kick 'em in the profits, only language they understand.



https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2017/feb/13/great-western-railway-delay-repay

Good god. Service is run by Crapita. Crapita and GWR! I'm surprised any trains run at all and ANY complaints get answered...

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 14 2017, 11:15 PM

Got the names of the GWR employees on duty that day.
Got photos of before and after.
They deserve to lose the franchise.
Most expensive per mile in the EU.
Overcrowded.
Diabolical customer service run by #crapita
Electrification delayed.
Self service machines that dont offer value.
Self service machines that dont work.
Cheaper to buy numerous tickets for the same journey than one.
Trains delayed.
Trains cancelled.
Last minute platform changes.
Bull**** announcements about delays.
Rude staff.
Ignorant staff.
New Hitachi trains that never arrive.
Dirty trains.
Signalling failures.
Freight trains..
Late train crews.
Crap GWR train app where you cant buy the right ticket unless its a week in advance.
Cheaper diesel. More expensive journeys.
Losing the buffet cars.
Fatcat salaries.
And on and on.....

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 14 2017, 11:56 PM

And I used to love those buffet cats! rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 15 2017, 12:43 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 14 2017, 11:15 PM) *
Last minute platform changes.

And can't even be bothered to announce on the board of the platform it was due at. That caused me to lose my religion that did.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 15 2017, 07:28 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 14 2017, 11:56 PM) *
And I used to love those buffet cats! rolleyes.gif


Corrected.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 17 2017, 06:02 AM

Was going to be reply to the list of comments by TDH but changed my mind!

Posted by: blackdog Feb 17 2017, 09:44 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 14 2017, 11:15 PM) *
...
Most expensive per mile in the EU.
...


Well, at least that one is going to change.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 17 2017, 09:49 AM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Feb 17 2017, 09:44 AM) *
Well, at least that one is going to change.


Yes, once our contributions cease and the EU can't redistribute it to covertly subsidise Greek public transport etc.

Posted by: blackdog Feb 17 2017, 04:04 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Feb 17 2017, 09:49 AM) *
Yes, once our contributions cease and the EU can't redistribute it to covertly subsidise Greek public transport etc.

No, once we leave the EU, when even as the prices rise and grow even more expesive than any in the EU, they will not be in the EU.


Posted by: On the edge Feb 17 2017, 07:12 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Feb 17 2017, 04:04 PM) *
No, once we leave the EU, when even as the prices rise and grow even more expesive than any in the EU, they will not be in the EU.


Any idea where the EU will get the money to replace our contribution?

Currency fluctuations will also affect the Euro.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 17 2017, 09:04 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Feb 17 2017, 07:12 PM) *
Any idea where the EU will get the money to replace our contribution?

Currency fluctuations will also affect the Euro.


We wont be leaving anything... By the end of the summer the EU will be no more.

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 17 2017, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 17 2017, 09:04 PM) *
We wont be leaving anything... By the end of the summer the EU will be no more.

Don't count your chickens just yet, a Mr T Blair has crawled out from under his stone and he's on the case now! Ohnoes! 11111 eleventy! We're all in trouble now!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 17 2017, 09:53 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 17 2017, 09:37 PM) *
Don't count your chickens just yet, a Mr T Blair has crawled out from under his stone and he's on the case now! Ohnoes! 11111 eleventy! We're all in trouble now!


If you want a laugh just review the HYS comments on BBC. He is as popular as Gary Glitter.

Posted by: blackdog Feb 17 2017, 11:34 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Feb 17 2017, 07:12 PM) *
Any idea where the EU will get the money to replace our contribution?

From the tariffs they place on imports from the UK? And the savings on payments to our MEPs.

QUOTE (On the edge @ Feb 17 2017, 07:12 PM) *
Currency fluctuations will also affect the Euro.

They affect all currencies - the collapse in the pound is not all bad - we may have to pay 20% more for imports, but we can always decide not to buy them. Meanwhile UK goods are cheaper on the international market, until prices have to rise to compensate for the higher costs of imported raw materials, fuel etc.

On the real plus side we seem to be getting some inflation, leading to higher interest rates, diminishing mortgages etc - at last!

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 18 2017, 01:10 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 17 2017, 09:53 PM) *
If you want a laugh just review the HYS comments on BBC. He is as popular as Gary Glitter.

The man's an utter clownshoe.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 18 2017, 06:01 AM

Back on "track" tongue.gif
If GWR lost the franchise who do you think may be suitable to take it over and how do you think things will improve by doing so?
Same trains. (Although they will be a nice new colour!)
Same staff. (Although in nice new uniforms!)
Same track.
Same stations.
Same ticket machines.
Same PA / information system. (With what I will agree is often poor / late information.)
Same signals.
Same track circuits. (Being replaced by axle counters, which also seem prone to failure!)
Same freight trains (whatever you mean by that!).
Same lorries hitting bridges.
Same trespassers / suicides.
Same overcrowding.
Same public making trains dirty.
Same cleaners. (Or lack!)
I suppose I could go on but point made??

If you look at other TOC's most if not all have the same issues.
The ones that seem to have the best performance figures are the ones that have the newest trains and the most up to date infrastructure. That is coming with GWR although I will agree, ridiculously overpriced and overdue!. (Not GWR's fault. It would be same situation under any TOC.)

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 22 2017, 11:03 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 18 2017, 06:01 AM) *
Back on "track" tongue.gif
If GWR lost the franchise who do you think may be suitable to take it over and how do you think things will improve by doing so?
Same trains. (Although they will be a nice new colour!)
Same staff. (Although in nice new uniforms!)
Same track.
Same stations.
Same ticket machines.
Same PA / information system. (With what I will agree is often poor / late information.)
Same signals.
Same track circuits. (Being replaced by axle counters, which also seem prone to failure!)
Same freight trains (whatever you mean by that!).
Same lorries hitting bridges.
Same trespassers / suicides.
Same overcrowding.
Same public making trains dirty.
Same cleaners. (Or lack!)
I suppose I could go on but point made??

If you look at other TOC's most if not all have the same issues.
The ones that seem to have the best performance figures are the ones that have the newest trains and the most up to date infrastructure. That is coming with GWR although I will agree, ridiculously overpriced and overdue!. (Not GWR's fault. It would be same situation under any TOC.)


They are still sh!t. 3 trains to London this week and no seat on any day. I did comandeer the toilet on Tuesday. Hope no one pooped themselves. huh.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 23 2017, 12:54 AM

The things I don't like about GWR are the little things, the detail. Things I think could be changed.

Make the ticket machines print tickets that look like the ones from the box office: they have a nice big 'OUT' and 'RTN' printed in the corner.
Ticket machines: stop obliterating the entire screen with a white box and arrow to show me where to pay, but because of it, I am unable to confirm the ticket I wish to buy. That winds me up a treat.
Put platform alterations on the overhead display of the platform the train was scheduled to arrive at. How many times have I tried to hear a platform alteration just as another bleedin train pulls in.
Make sure the tickertape displays in trains are running and showing the next stations before the train departs. Sod the 'Welcome aboard' message, I want to know it is the correct train.
When you stop the train, say: "This is <insert station name>, please alight now", or something like that; buses do this. I have been sat using my computer waiting for the train to stop and not realise it has stopped, but am not able to see the station as the internal lights are too bright and the station lights are too dim.

There's more, but those spring to mind.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 23 2017, 06:04 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 23 2017, 01:03 AM) *
They are still sh!t. 3 trains to London this week and no seat on any day. I did comandeer the toilet on Tuesday. Hope no one pooped themselves. huh.gif

Again, would be the same under any TOC.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 23 2017, 06:06 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Feb 23 2017, 02:54 AM) *
The things I don't like about GWR are the little things, the detail. Things I think could be changed.

Make the ticket machines print tickets that look like the ones from the box office: they have I nice big 'OUT' and 'RTN' printed in the corner.

There's more, but those spring to mind.

That's good! rolleyes.gif
The change in ticket design was implemented due to customer request as they found the old style difficult to understand!! laugh.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 23 2017, 08:24 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 23 2017, 06:06 AM) *
That's good! rolleyes.gif

I suspected your sarcasm emulates that of GWR's attitude to its customers, which explains a lot. tongue.gif

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 23 2017, 06:06 AM) *
That's good! rolleyes.gif
The change in ticket design was implemented due to customer request as they found the old style difficult to understand!! laugh.gif

My annoyance is the font size. I can't see at a glance which ticket I have. Make 'Outward' look like 'OUTWARD' and 'Return' look like 'RETURN', so I don't need my bleedin readers to see it. Assuming that is the design change you mean? Other than that, I can't see any other real difference.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 23 2017, 10:07 AM

Basic customer service failure is endemic in the UK. We now have legions of mangers who simply don't understand about 'putting themselves in the customers shoes'. As for basic technology 'user testing' - if it works, it goes. Again, sadly, this simply reinforces a concern I had voting Brexit, we don't seem to have the skill sets anymore.
The UK has any amount of supervisors, very few managers and a dearth of leaders. All NCOs and no officers!

It isn't just railways. Sainsbury's for instance, still can't get the self service checkouts right, even for basic 'using own bag'. Try NatWest's automated teller in the branch here in Newbury. Your card goes in the slot one way round and you pay in cheques inserted the other! Complain and you are told 'but it's obvious'.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 23 2017, 04:51 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Feb 23 2017, 10:24 AM) *
I suspected your sarcasm emulates that of GWR's attitude to its customers, which explains a lot. tongue.gif

Not at all!
Just seemed to me ironic that the design was altered as a result of input from passengers which your comment seemed to contradict.
Never mind, you'll be able to print your own soon or even maybe "touch in" like on TFL.
As for GWR's attitude to it's customers, I suspect http://www.train4change.com/news/great-experiences-with-gwr/ may generate some sarcasm of your own!! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 23 2017, 07:49 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 23 2017, 04:51 PM) *
Not at all!
Just seemed to me ironic that the design was altered as a result of input from passengers which your comment seemed to contradict.
Never mind, you'll be able to print your own soon or even maybe "touch in" like on TFL.
As for GWR's attitude to it's customers, I suspect http://www.train4change.com/news/great-experiences-with-gwr/ may generate some sarcasm of your own!! biggrin.gif

I'd like to know what the complaint was and whether the results were an improvement. What is for sure is the box office ticket is way easier to read.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 26 2017, 08:40 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Feb 23 2017, 09:49 PM) *
I'd like to know what the complaint was and whether the results were an improvement. What is for sure is the box office ticket is way easier to read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2934200/Rail-tickets-redesigned-time-30-years-bid-make-travel-simpler-easier-clearer.html

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 26 2017, 12:02 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 26 2017, 08:40 AM) *
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2934200/Rail-tickets-redesigned-time-30-years-bid-make-travel-simpler-easier-clearer.html

I'm sorry but the vending ticket is one big fail. It is nowhere near the suggested design; the font is smaller and the ticket less clear.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 2 2017, 12:48 AM

What a shock! rolleyes.gif I suppose I'll just have to guess!



Waste of space service!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 2 2017, 10:28 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Mar 2 2017, 12:48 AM) *
What a shock! rolleyes.gif I suppose I'll just have to guess!



Waste of space service!


What else do you expect? I was told by a GWR staff member today that spending money on Newbury Train station was a "waste of money".

Posted by: Exhausted Mar 5 2017, 06:55 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Mar 2 2017, 10:28 PM) *
What else do you expect? I was told by a GWR staff member today that spending money on Newbury Train station was a "waste of money".


He would know of course.





Posted by: Biker1 Mar 5 2017, 09:21 PM

QUOTE (Exhausted @ Mar 5 2017, 08:55 PM) *
He would know of course.

Or she! wink.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp May 22 2017, 06:47 PM

More great service from our 3rd world rail service:

On Saturday I check the GWR App to see there's a bus replacement on Sunday around 09:15 from Thatcham. Come Sunday morning the app doesn't work (again). Get to Thatcham station in plenty of time and around 09:30 I begin to get that concerned feeling. Fortunately for me an acquaintance has a slightly more reliable app it seems and informs me the bus has been cancelled; next train is an hour away. Brilliant! Which means I won't get to London at the time wanted by some margin. Good job I thumbed as much pish out as I could before I left the house!

Tonight I get on the Plymouth train and the aircon is up the spout; bleeding stunk of sweat in there!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 22 2017, 07:30 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 22 2017, 07:47 PM) *
More great service from our 3rd world rail service:

On Saturday I check the GWR App to see there's a bus replacement on Sunday around 09:15 from Thatcham. Come Sunday morning the app doesn't work (again). Get to Thatcham station in plenty of time and around 09:30 I begin to get that concerned feeling. Fortunately for me an equantance has a slightly more reliable app it seems and informs me the bus has been cancelled; next train is an hour away. Brilliant! Which means I won't get to London at the time wanted by some margin. Good job I thumbed as much pish out as I could before I left the house!

Tonight I get on the Plymouth train and the aircon is up the spout; bleeding stunk of sweat in there!



You were lucky. My train was cancelled due to no train crew and the next one was 20 mins late and no air con either. Then missed my connection at Reading. Useless.

Posted by: Simon Kirby May 22 2017, 07:41 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 22 2017, 08:30 PM) *
Useless.

Yet the cost of running the railways has more than doubled in real-terms since privatisation, and all but one of the private train operators receive more in subsidies than they return in franchise payments.

If the state is paying the private rail operators so much public money and the service is still as you say so useless, let's nationalise it and do a better job.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 22 2017, 08:12 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 22 2017, 08:41 PM) *
Yet the cost of running the railways has more than doubled in real-terms since privatisation, and all but one of the private train operators receive more in subsidies than they return in franchise payments.

If the state is paying the private rail operators so much public money and the service is still as you say so useless, let's nationalise it and do a better job.


I agree with Nationalisation of the Railways but ONLY if the Unions guaranteed a service Monday to Friday and reserved any strike action for weekends. If not I fear the worst.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 22 2017, 08:16 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 22 2017, 09:12 PM) *
I agree with Nationalisation of the Railways but ONLY if the Unions guaranteed a service Monday to Friday and reserved any strike action for weekends. If not I fear the worst.

I agree. tongue.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp May 23 2017, 07:01 PM

Another miserable evening trying to get home on our retarded train service. All delayed, no information and no one knows anything and last second platform alterations!!!

Oh and GWR have changed the app to make it completely useless as well.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 26 2017, 06:54 PM

And another miserable day at Reading station not knowing when trains will appear and an app whose most effective freature is looking green.

It must be the wrong sort of sun.

Posted by: On the edge May 26 2017, 08:51 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 26 2017, 07:54 PM) *
And another miserable day at Reading station not knowing when trains will appear and an app whose most effective freature is looking green.

It must be the wrong sort of sun.


Umm, try using buses in Newbury, situation far worse. It seems we 'don't do' service technology in the UK anymore.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 26 2017, 08:52 PM

It's ok, just write to 'jeremy will fix it!'. Job done.

Posted by: On the edge May 27 2017, 08:54 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 26 2017, 09:52 PM) *
It's ok, just write to 'jeremy will fix it!'. Job done.


That's just the point, he can't. It's all about attitude, and round here at least the problems with public transport are really down to that; attitude. What ever your politics.

Posted by: Biker1 May 27 2017, 09:19 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 26 2017, 07:54 PM) *
And another miserable day at Reading station not knowing when trains will appear and an app whose most effective freature is looking green.

It must be the wrong sort of sun.

Much of the disruption on our line yesterday were caused by the failure of a freight train between Bedwyn and Hungerford.
The failed train in question was operated by DB Cargo UK........a division of German Sate Railways (Deutsche Bahn)! tongue.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 27 2017, 09:30 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 27 2017, 09:54 AM) *
That's just the point, he can't. It's all about attitude, and round here at least the problems with public transport are really down to that; attitude. What ever your politics.

Yeah, right, so it's 'attitude' that caused the breakdown of a freight train. Right.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 27 2017, 09:40 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 27 2017, 10:19 AM) *
Much of the disruption on our line yesterday were caused by the failure of a freight train between Bedwyn and Hungerford.
The failed train in question was operated by DB Cargo UK........a division of German Sate Railways (Deutsche Bahn)! tongue.gif

What country is responsible for the GWR app downgrade!

Posted by: Biker1 May 27 2017, 10:04 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 27 2017, 10:40 AM) *
What country is responsible for the GWR app downgrade!

???
Who knows?
The www is what it says - world wide.
I would imagine GWR would be immediately responsible (that is if it is not your phone or network) which is part of First Group, so I would say the UK, but not being an avid "app" user I wouldn't really know?

Oh yes that reminds me, as an aside, how's the all singing, all dancing Thatcham Crossing "app" working out?

Posted by: Simon Kirby May 27 2017, 10:36 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 27 2017, 10:30 AM) *
Yeah, right, so it's 'attitude' that caused the breakdown of a freight train. Right.

Well yes, it is, in the same way as it's attitude that pretty much guarantees that civil aircraft don't tall out of the sky for lack of maintenance. We take an attitude to the maintenance of rolling stock that accepts failures, but it could be engineered otherwise - though there's a cost and a proportionate approach will be to accept some level of breakdowns.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 27 2017, 11:02 AM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 27 2017, 11:36 AM) *
Well yes, it is, in the same way as it's attitude that pretty much guarantees that civil aircraft don't tall out of the sky for lack of maintenance. We take an attitude to the maintenance of rolling stock that accepts failures, but it could be engineered otherwise - though there's a cost and a proportionate approach will be to accept some level of breakdowns.

Still, when is completely​ borked (I mean nationalised) that won't be a problem will it? Oh, and planes do still have failures, even with all the systems redundancy you can throw at them you can't ever rule out total failure.

Posted by: On the edge May 27 2017, 12:33 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 27 2017, 10:19 AM) *
Much of the disruption on our line yesterday were caused by the failure of a freight train between Bedwyn and Hungerford.
The failed train in question was operated by DB Cargo UK........a division of German Sate Railways (Deutsche Bahn)! tongue.gif


Actually proves the point old boy! Why on earth would the German State railway service want a slice of private enterprise UK? Is it not just to extract as much cash as they can to support their own? One thiing is certain, it's not for customer service!





Posted by: On the edge May 27 2017, 12:39 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 27 2017, 12:02 PM) *
Still, when is completely​ borked (I mean nationalised) that won't be a problem will it? Oh, and planes do still have failures, even with all the systems redundancy you can throw at them you can't ever rule out total failure.


Quite right BUT you can change attitudes. Moderating tooth and claw capitalisim does not necessarily mean centralised bureacracy. There are other models, John Lewis doesn't have strikes and its staff don't have 'railway' attitudes.


Posted by: je suis Charlie May 27 2017, 04:54 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 27 2017, 01:39 PM) *
Quite right BUT you can change attitudes. Moderating tooth and claw capitalisim does not necessarily mean centralised bureacracy. There are other models, John Lewis doesn't have strikes and its staff don't have 'railway' attitudes.

Onward​ comrades, Seize the means of production, hunt down the running dogs of capitalism! To the post office! Onwards to a bright and golden world free of capitalist landlords and wreckers. Pure comedy gold 😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 27 2017, 04:55 PM

Oh, and, Diane Abbott. 😂😂😂

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 27 2017, 05:37 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 27 2017, 05:55 PM) *
Oh, and, Diane Abbott. 😂😂😂


If you dont vote Labour you are racist. Or a homophobic. Or a war monger. Or you hate Europe. Scum tories. Power to the people!!!! I want 10 trillion spent on stuff. Nationalise it all. £30 per hour minimum wage. Im with the elite like Gary and Lilly. They are shining examples to all. Lets do this.👍. Ohhhhh Jeremy Corbyn....
And lets get rid of the nuclear weapons. And withdraw from Nato. And tell the USA we dont like them. And disband the Commonwealth. And get rid of the Royal family. Leeches. And give the Scots more money. The Barnett formula is floored. English and Welsh people should all pay a direct paye tax to scottish folk. Love u jezza. 😂

Posted by: newres May 27 2017, 05:46 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 27 2017, 06:37 PM) *
If you dont vote Labour you are racist. Or a homophobic. Or a war monger. Or you hate Europe. Scum tories. Power to the people!!!! I want 10 trillion spent on stuff. Nationalise it all. £30 per hour minimum wage. Im with the elite like Gary and Lilly. They are shining examples to all. Lets do this.👍. Ohhhhh Jeremy Corbyn....
And lets get rid of the nuclear weapons. And withdraw from Nato. And tell the USA we dont like them. And disband the Commonwealth. And get rid of the Royal family. Leeches. And give the Scots more money. The Barnett formula is floored. English and Welsh people should all pay a direct paye tax to scottish folk. Love u jezza. 😂

A convert!! Welcome brother. biggrin.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 27 2017, 05:59 PM

There is a letter in the telegraph today, and I paraphrase, "if you're rightist the left are misguided, if you're a leftist the right are 'evil'. Pretty acute observation I thought. Something to do with their view of themselves as being morally and intellectually 'elite'. Why is it though that whenever any riots are shown it's always a leftist 'protest' ?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 27 2017, 06:03 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 27 2017, 06:59 PM) *
There is a letter in the telegraph today, and I paraphrase, "if you're rightist the left are misguided, if you're a leftist the right are 'evil'. Pretty acute observation I thought. Something to do with their view of themselves as being morally and intellectually 'elite'. Why is it though that whenever any riots are shown it's always a leftist 'protest' ?


The same reason all "hate" crimes are commited by white folk. White scum. Get them outta the Country.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 27 2017, 07:04 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 27 2017, 07:03 PM) *
The same reason all "hate" crimes are commited by white folk. White scum. Get them outta the Country.

can't agree more. Filthy Christians!!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 27 2017, 07:25 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 27 2017, 08:04 PM) *
can't agree more. Filthy Christians!!


Its Ok to kill Christians.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/egypt-gunmen-attack-bus-carrying-coptic-christians-170526100440001.html

Note. Aljazeera not Daily Fail to all you apologists.
I blame May. And Brexit.

Vote JC. The second coming!!! He will protect us!!!!!



Posted by: je suis Charlie May 27 2017, 07:28 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 27 2017, 08:25 PM) *
Its Ok to kill Christians.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/egypt-gunmen-attack-bus-carrying-coptic-christians-170526100440001.html

Note. Aljazeera not Daily Fail to all you apologists.
I blame May. And Brexit.

Vote JC. The second coming!!! He will protect us!!!!!

what do they expect, Christians? another target for the islington Elite.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 27 2017, 07:31 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 27 2017, 08:28 PM) *
what do they expect, Christians? another target for the islington Elite.

Just been online for the wife, @ "Burkas are us" gotta blend in now.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 27 2017, 07:40 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 27 2017, 08:31 PM) *
Just been online for the wife, @ "Burkas are us" gotta blend in now.


http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-controversial-bbc-sketch-real-housewives-of-isis-w459094

😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 27 2017, 07:45 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 27 2017, 08:40 PM) *
http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-controversial-bbc-sketch-real-housewives-of-isis-w459094

😂

That's racist! Christian dog! Beheadings will continue until the true faith is acknowledged.

Posted by: Simon Kirby May 27 2017, 08:00 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 27 2017, 06:59 PM) *
Why is it though that whenever any riots are shown it's always a leftist 'protest' ?

Because it's not, not always. The terms "left" and "right" originated in the French Revolution when the King's men took to sitting in the National Assembly on the president's right with the revolutionaries on the left, and the usage has sort of stuck with leftist broadly meaning supportive of social justice and the privileged reactionary establishment being rightist.

So for example in the Peterloo Massacre where the local magistrate ordered a cavalry charge, the crowd could reasonably be described as leftist as they were protesting against the social injustice of an unrepresentative parliament that had passed corn laws to protect the interests of the landed parliamentarians regardless of the suffering of ordinary people, and the establishment that suppressed the protest with such barbarity was also very much rightist.

There are plenty of examples of riots that fit this pattern of an injured under-class protesting against an unjust establishment where the leftist-rightist appellations make sense, but there are plenty of counter-examples too such as the 2011 riots and the Millwall-Luton FA Cup tie where they're meaningless.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 27 2017, 08:15 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 27 2017, 08:45 PM) *
That's racist! Christian dog! Beheadings will continue until the true faith is acknowledged.


And from a BBC producer from the same faith... Guess shes gonna be looking over her shoulder for the rest of her life. Hope she has some protection. She's a dead woman walking. But hey if she does get murdered its her own fault. #prayfor... What a cr@p hashtag. Platitudes feom people who want to join in with the "group" hug. #wataloadofold****


Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 27 2017, 08:16 PM

Duplicate

Posted by: On the edge May 27 2017, 08:30 PM

Good afternoon up the Lodge was it boys? Don't tell me RB is like 'our Judith' and seriously concerned about the growth on the peoples party round here?

Still, it's something both shades of blue agree on; they don't want Labour b******** up their democracy.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 27 2017, 08:33 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 27 2017, 09:30 PM) *
Good afternoon up the Lodge was it boys? Don't tell me RB is like 'our Judith' and seriously concerned about the growth on the peoples party round here?

Still, it's something both shades of blue agree on; they don't want Labour b******** up their democracy.


I don't like Benyon. I think he is a D1ck.

Posted by: On the edge May 27 2017, 09:15 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 27 2017, 09:33 PM) *
I don't like Benyon. I think he is a D1ck.


I know, irritating isn't it! As far as I can make out, the local kippers had a bit of trouble filling in the forms; it meant reading and writing. Might have to swallow your pride and do what they say then!

Posted by: Biker1 May 28 2017, 08:13 AM

Wow! This must be the best example of a straying thread I have seen on here for some time!! laugh.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 28 2017, 08:23 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 28 2017, 09:13 AM) *
Wow! This must be the best example of a straying thread I have seen on here for some time!! laugh.gif


Yep! I see Abbotts on Marr in a minute. Should be good for a laugh. Comedy gold.

Posted by: Biker1 May 28 2017, 08:31 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 28 2017, 09:23 AM) *
Yep! I see Abbotts on Marr in a minute. Should be good for a laugh. Comedy gold.

laugh.gif She must be a glutton for punishment!

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 28 2017, 08:59 AM

Diane Abbott. 😵😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 28 2017, 09:02 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 28 2017, 09:31 AM) *
laugh.gif She must be a glutton!

🐷

Posted by: newres May 28 2017, 11:19 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 28 2017, 09:31 AM) *
laugh.gif She must be a glutton for punishment!

She can't be any more of a disaster than May on Andrew Neil. TM looks lost at sea.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 28 2017, 12:30 PM

Diane Abbott, bombs, bullets and hair curlers. 😂😂😂

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 28 2017, 02:17 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 28 2017, 12:19 PM) *
She can't be any more of a disaster than May on Andrew Neil. TM looks lost at sea.

Where as Abbott who has been "accused" of being a racist did not want bin ladens mob banned. Still thats ok as she used to have an afro when she said that. They need to get rid of Abbott. They WOULD win without. Will cost Labour a million votes.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 28 2017, 02:59 PM

"Every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us.". Said the shadow home Secretary. Still think labour is a safe pair of hands?

Posted by: On the edge May 28 2017, 03:59 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 28 2017, 03:59 PM) *
"Every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us.". Said the shadow home Secretary. Still think labour is a safe pair of hands?


No worries, there's nothing left of the British State since the Tories sold it off.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 28 2017, 04:10 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 28 2017, 04:59 PM) *
No worries, there's nothing left of the British State since the Tories sold it off.


Thats ok then. Lets give up. You are part of the problem chap. Constantly talking the Country down.


Posted by: Biker1 May 28 2017, 04:56 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 28 2017, 12:19 PM) *
She can't be any more of a disaster than May on Andrew Neil. TM looks lost at sea.

Oh yes she can!! tongue.gif
(And I'm no particular fan of May.)

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 28 2017, 05:05 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 28 2017, 05:56 PM) *
Oh yes she can!! tongue.gif
(And I'm no particular fan of May.)

Worst prospective cabinet member in history.
And Corbyn sh@gged it.😂

Posted by: On the edge May 28 2017, 05:34 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 28 2017, 05:10 PM) *
Thats ok then. Lets give up. You are part of the problem chap. Constantly talking the Country down.


You've clearly forgotten what to do when you see an Emperor with no clothes!

But remember, I voted out, so I'm thick; so perhaps you'd be better placed to explain your take on our national economic wellbeing?


Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 28 2017, 06:01 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 28 2017, 06:34 PM) *
You've clearly forgotten what to do when you see an Emperor with no clothes!

But remember, I voted out, so I'm thick; so perhaps you'd be better placed to explain your take on our national economic wellbeing?


I'm not. Anyone who thinks they are are wrong. All you can do is your best. The IFS are very critical of both the Tories manifesto (uncosted) and Labours (costed but based on fantasy). As for an emperor with no clothes... U have not seem me in my mankini. Yeah baby!!!

Posted by: newres May 28 2017, 06:11 PM

Obviously it's not a presidential campaign but May has done herself no favours by running scared of the public and Corbyn. She's robotic in her answers and lacks any charisma at all.

Meanwhile Corbyn is challenging, dynamic and radical. I'm not keen on the corporation tax changes and I'm not keen on the excesses of the welfare state but on balance I think our country will be safer and I want a leader that will put our country and its people first.

Economy wise we're in a tricky and unusual situation because a left wing Labour government that takes a more pragmatic approach to leaving the EU will do far less harm than a hard Brexit. Corbyn is the lesser of two evils.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 28 2017, 06:40 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 28 2017, 07:11 PM) *
Obviously it's not a presidential campaign but May has done herself no favours by running scared of the public and Corbyn. She's robotic in her answers and lacks any charisma at all.

Meanwhile Corbyn is challenging, dynamic and radical. I'm not keen on the corporation tax changes and I'm not keen on the excesses of the welfare state but on balance I think our country will be safer and I want a leader that will put our country and its people first.

Economy wise we're in a tricky and unusual situation because a left wing Labour government that takes a more pragmatic approach to leaving the EU will do far less harm than a hard Brexit. Corbyn is the lesser of two evils.


Its not juat Corbyn though. Its Abbott. And her momentum ilk. Boring May or dangerous Corbyn. Dont cry over spilt milk when Corbtn has trashed the Country. YOU will have voted for him. 😂

Posted by: On the edge May 28 2017, 07:12 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 28 2017, 07:40 PM) *
Its not juat Corbyn though. Its Abbott. And her momentum ilk. Boring May or dangerous Corbyn. Dont cry over spilt milk when Corbtn has trashed the Country. YOU will have voted for him. 😂


But I'm not voting for Corbyn or Abbott. I know this is a presidential election, but I'm voting for the Labour Party, who, in spite of its issues, is much bigger than those two. From their manifesto, in my view, it's probably the only hope.

As to the state of the Country; when our education system is now right down in the international tables, our kids have given up hope of buying a decent home for themselves, let alone being able to clear the huge loan for the liberal arts degree because they haven't access to 'head office' type jobs, and those coming up for retirement wondering if their pension scheme will even be around. Hearing about the collapse of our much vaunted health care system and the abysmal state of our roads. Then finding we no longer own the physical water, airport, electricity and gas infrastructures because like our national commercial icons like Cadbury and Weetabix, they are in foreign hands. And Sir Phil is still floating round the Med! I'd say Corbyn couldn't do much worse.

Posted by: Simon Kirby May 28 2017, 07:30 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 28 2017, 07:11 PM) *
Obviously it's not a presidential campaign but May has done herself no favours by running scared of the public and Corbyn. She's robotic in her answers and lacks any charisma at all.

Meanwhile Corbyn is challenging, dynamic and radical. I'm not keen on the corporation tax changes and I'm not keen on the excesses of the welfare state but on balance I think our country will be safer and I want a leader that will put our country and its people first.

Economy wise we're in a tricky and unusual situation because a left wing Labour government that takes a more pragmatic approach to leaving the EU will do far less harm than a hard Brexit. Corbyn is the lesser of two evils.

I'm pretty comfortable with the changes to corporation tax. It's much lower in the UK than in most of Europe and I'd be happy for corporations to pay their way - the Irish economic model with low corporation tax went disastrously wrong and I'd prefer to avoid a similar bubble.

I don't trust May over Brexit. Here priority will be to support big business and I'd prefer to negotiate an exit that works best for normal people.

Posted by: newres May 28 2017, 07:37 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 28 2017, 08:30 PM) *
I'm pretty comfortable with the changes to corporation tax. It's much lower in the UK than in most of Europe and I'd be happy for corporations to pay their way - the Irish economic model with low corporation tax went disastrously wrong and I'd prefer to avoid a similar bubble.

I don't trust May over Brexit. Here priority will be to support big business and I'd prefer to negotiate an exit that works best for normal people.

Then I guess you're not paying them. I'm uncomfortable because I am. It will rise to 23% but in addition I have to pay tax on dividends so it's paid twice. Add to that the burden of workplace pensions and there is a large load on small businesses yet Corbyn implies that we don't pay our share.

Some of his views are "them and us". Very 70s. Why not just put income tax up then everyone pays?

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 28 2017, 08:11 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 28 2017, 08:37 PM) *
Then I guess you're not paying them. I'm uncomfortable because I am. It will rise to 23% but in addition I have to pay tax on dividends so it's paid twice. Add to that the burden of workplace pensions and there is a large load on small businesses yet Corbyn implies that we don't pay our share.

Some of his views are "them and us". Very 70s. Why not just put income tax up then everyone pays?

Pressure on small businesses has never been greater. And Corbyn will make it worse for people like you. Just give up, go on the role, wear an "I love terrorists" badge and milk the state as hard as you can. Everyone else will, and when we're all scouring the rubbish tip for fuel and the monies all gone and the country is bankrupt, don't be surprised if the hated reviled right get another chance. More austerity, but at least you can start a new business. Good luck.

Posted by: On the edge May 28 2017, 08:30 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 28 2017, 09:11 PM) *
Pressure on small businesses has never been greater. And Corbyn will make it worse for people like you. Just give up, go on the role, wear an "I love terrorists" badge and milk the state as hard as you can. Everyone else will, and when we're all scouring the rubbish tip for fuel and the monies all gone and the country is bankrupt, don't be surprised if the hated reviled right get another chance. More austerity, but at least you can start a new business. Good luck.


Rather interesting this. It's arguably the Tory arms dealers who live terrorists, unloading weapons to some very unsavoury regimes all in the interests of world peace of course. Then, as to milking the State, yes people do that, the dreadful Mrs Miggins and her ilk getting a few grand by fraudulent claims. Pales into insignificance against what the Bankers have leeched out of the exchequer! And what did we do about them? Throw them in jug and deduct it from future benefit payments? Nah, we doshed up even more and still they get stupendous bonuses.

Yes, even now there are people scrubbing around for food, in Newbury, rich, wealthy Newbury, there is a very active Food Bank.

Small businesses? Our Tory chums have done a great deal for them haven't they? Those wonderful bankers had to be almost forced to start lending again. Then, my oh my, we uncover a scam, initially denied by the bank that was actually bankrupting these people.

If that's what strong and stable Government brings; I'll take my chance on the tip!


Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 28 2017, 09:05 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 28 2017, 09:30 PM) *
Rather interesting this. It's arguably the Tory arms dealers who live terrorists, unloading weapons to some very unsavoury regimes all in the interests of world peace of course. Then, as to milking the State, yes people do that, the dreadful Mrs Miggins and her ilk getting a few grand by fraudulent claims. Pales into insignificance against what the Bankers have leeched out of the exchequer! And what did we do about them? Throw them in jug and deduct it from future benefit payments? Nah, we doshed up even more and still they get stupendous bonuses.

Yes, even now there are people scrubbing around for food, in Newbury, rich, wealthy Newbury, there is a very active Food Bank.

Small businesses? Our Tory chums have done a great deal for them haven't they? Those wonderful bankers had to be almost forced to start lending again. Then, my oh my, we uncover a scam, initially denied by the bank that was actually bankrupting these people.

If that's what strong and stable Government brings; I'll take my chance on the tip!


Cos all tories are arms dealers. Even the the little old ladies. Die old ladies die. So the youth can inherit the wealth. I used to go a few days without food when I was a youngun...but hey it was my choice I spent it on beer. I wonder how many food bankers smoke and drink? They should give benefits in vouchers for food only. I GUARANTEE you that the use of food banks would be at least halved. Probably more than half... But that would be against uman rights eh...

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 28 2017, 10:28 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 28 2017, 09:30 PM) *
If that's what strong and stable Government brings; I'll take my chance on the tip!

Be very careful what you wish for.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 05:35 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 28 2017, 08:37 PM) *
Then I guess you're not paying them. I'm uncomfortable because I am. It will rise to 23% but in addition I have to pay tax on dividends so it's paid twice. Add to that the burden of workplace pensions and there is a large load on small businesses yet Corbyn implies that we don't pay our share.

Some of his views are "them and us". Very 70s. Why not just put income tax up then everyone pays?


Don't worry. Income tax will have to rise. A lot

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 06:02 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 29 2017, 06:35 AM) *
Don't worry. Income tax will have to rise. A lot

I don't mind an increase. 2%? At least it doesn't feel as though I'm being accused of not paying my share even though I'm collecting VAT (much of which I can't pass on), paying PAYE and NI for four employees, tax on profit and tax on dividends.

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 06:09 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 28 2017, 10:05 PM) *
Cos all tories are arms dealers. Even the the little old ladies. Die old ladies die. So the youth can inherit the wealth. I used to go a few days without food when I was a youngun...but hey it was my choice I spent it on beer. I wonder how many food bankers smoke and drink? They should give benefits in vouchers for food only. I GUARANTEE you that the use of food banks would be at least halved. Probably more than half... But that would be against uman rights eh...


As you so well explain, Tory philosophy is all about supporting and strengthening human nature. I have two cows, but I have to have yours as well and if you don't give it to me, I'll hurt you. Yes, I'm Phil I've got all the shares in this company; so that means I own you too. Very few of us work for our own account, but never mind, just like Phil's slave, once the boss has finished with us, there are always food vouchers to fall back on. Actually, that's quite a good idea; why aren't pensions and public service wages paid out as vouchers; after all for key workers we have discounted homes? So yes, your idea might well halve food bank use. Any ideas about how to get rid of them altogether?

Umm, on balance I'd rather have human rights than human nature thanks!

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 06:12 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 07:02 AM) *
I don't mind an increase. 2%? At least it doesn't feel as though I'm being accused of not paying my share even though I'm collecting VAT (much of which I can't pass on), paying PAYE and NI for four employees, tax on profit and tax on dividends.


Running a business is clearly a skill; something that's actually missing from our national curriculum.

Posted by: Biker1 May 29 2017, 08:00 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 28 2017, 08:37 PM) *
Some of his views are "them and us". Very 70s. Why not just put income tax up then everyone pays?

You can't just create wealth by simply putting up tax.
Wealth has to be created before you can spend it.
Increasing taxation leaves the country just as poor as it was before.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 29 2017, 08:26 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 29 2017, 09:00 AM) *
You can't just create wealth by simply putting up tax.
Wealth has to be created before you can spend it.
Increasing taxation leaves the country just as poor as it was before.

Poorer actually, heavier taxation means less money in the pocket, less money means you can afford less. Spending goes down, less sales, less vat, less jobs, economy goes into a death spiral. Listen, when you take away the elements of "its going to be lovely, fluffy kittens, roses round the door, everyone skipping and singing" what you're​ left with is unrealistic, uncosted votes at any price political fog. I've seen this before, I've tried to work through it, and it always ends up failing. Why do the Tories always get back in? If, if labour had a viable plan I might even vote for them, but this bunch is just totally beyond the pale. People say "Jeremy's fresh with new ways of looking at things" yes, well that was said about T Blair and look where that ended up!
I'm sorry, but apart from the uncosted, the Trotskyite and the outright mad, nothing will be implemented. And when the promised land never happens, when the left are all strangely silent, when poverty is rife and food banks are the only growth 'industry' what then? Your kidding yourselves, talk to people who survived the 70's, the people who have in fact "been there, done that" the people who have experienced it. Then, and only then (if you bother to listen) will you begin to have a clue as to what's about to happen to you. But this time it's just going to be worse. Much worse.

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 09:05 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 29 2017, 09:26 AM) *
Poorer actually, heavier taxation means less money in the pocket, less money means you can afford less. Spending goes down, less sales, less vat, less jobs, economy goes into a death spiral. Listen, when you take away the elements of "its going to be lovely, fluffy kittens, roses round the door, everyone skipping and singing" what you're​ left with is unrealistic, uncosted votes at any price political fog. I've seen this before, I've tried to work through it, and it always ends up failing. Why do the Tories always get back in? If, if labour had a viable plan I might even vote for them, but this bunch is just totally beyond the pale. People say "Jeremy's fresh with new ways of looking at things" yes, well that was said about T Blair and look where that ended up!
I'm sorry, but apart from the uncosted, the Trotskyite and the outright mad, nothing will be implemented. And when the promised land never happens, when the left are all strangely silent, when poverty is rife and food banks are the only growth 'industry' what then? Your kidding yourselves, talk to people who survived the 70's, the people who have in fact "been there, done that" the people who have experienced it. Then, and only then (if you bother to listen) will you begin to have a clue as to what's about to happen to you. But this time it's just going to be worse. Much worse.


Spot on old son! Absolutely right. The Tory side needs no explanation, they are simply going for broke in their usual manner, but now with the brakes off. So, whichever way you vote, the result is going to be worse.

So why vote, and why vote Labour? Simply, inspite of all, they are possibly the only party likely to listen, even if just a little. That's the minute glimmer of hope!

LibDems will simply slip back into bed with the Tories, pants down. Listen? Yeah like they do round here. And, Mrs M will use it to deliver the Tory dream, which doesn't include us. So Labour, just a minute hope.

However, it's really going to be up to us. How many of us really do get involved with their local party and particularly afterwards?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 09:08 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 29 2017, 09:26 AM) *
Poorer actually, heavier taxation means less money in the pocket, less money means you can afford less. Spending goes down, less sales, less vat, less jobs, economy goes into a death spiral. Listen, when you take away the elements of "its going to be lovely, fluffy kittens, roses round the door, everyone skipping and singing" what you're​ left with is unrealistic, uncosted votes at any price political fog. I've seen this before, I've tried to work through it, and it always ends up failing. Why do the Tories always get back in? If, if labour had a viable plan I might even vote for them, but this bunch is just totally beyond the pale. People say "Jeremy's fresh with new ways of looking at things" yes, well that was said about T Blair and look where that ended up!
I'm sorry, but apart from the uncosted, the Trotskyite and the outright mad, nothing will be implemented. And when the promised land never happens, when the left are all strangely silent, when poverty is rife and food banks are the only growth 'industry' what then? Your kidding yourselves, talk to people who survived the 70's, the people who have in fact "been there, done that" the people who have experienced it. Then, and only then (if you bother to listen) will you begin to have a clue as to what's about to happen to you. But this time it's just going to be worse. Much worse.


The luvvies will blame brexit and the previous Tory government. Nothing to do with JC. He's the 2nd coming. Still... House prices will be cheaper... A lot cheaper!!!

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 10:26 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 29 2017, 09:26 AM) *
Poorer actually, heavier taxation means less money in the pocket, less money means you can afford less. Spending goes down, less sales, less vat, less jobs, economy goes into a death spiral. Listen, when you take away the elements of "its going to be lovely, fluffy kittens, roses round the door, everyone skipping and singing" what you're​ left with is unrealistic, uncosted votes at any price political fog. I've seen this before, I've tried to work through it, and it always ends up failing. Why do the Tories always get back in? If, if labour had a viable plan I might even vote for them, but this bunch is just totally beyond the pale. People say "Jeremy's fresh with new ways of looking at things" yes, well that was said about T Blair and look where that ended up!
I'm sorry, but apart from the uncosted, the Trotskyite and the outright mad, nothing will be implemented. And when the promised land never happens, when the left are all strangely silent, when poverty is rife and food banks are the only growth 'industry' what then? Your kidding yourselves, talk to people who survived the 70's, the people who have in fact "been there, done that" the people who have experienced it. Then, and only then (if you bother to listen) will you begin to have a clue as to what's about to happen to you. But this time it's just going to be worse. Much worse.

Mind you inflation creates the same spiral. Brexit anyone? Or is it a price worth paying to "take back control"? In that case it's a price worth paying for better health care, better schools, more police plus we get the benefit of an ethical foreign policy.

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 11:34 AM

Unless 'we' start exerting more influence after the election, no matter who gets elected, then we are in big trouble.

My take on where we are right now is simply for the last four decades British management, in its widest sense, sat down.

A sentiment picked up by the LibDems of all people, who changed it into a campaign slogan - 'LibDems; whining here'.

So yes, it's up to you!




Posted by: je suis Charlie May 29 2017, 11:50 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 11:26 AM) *
Mind you inflation creates the same spiral. Brexit anyone? Or is it a price worth paying to "take back control"? In that case it's a price worth paying for better health care, better schools, more police plus we get the benefit of an ethical foreign policy.

Better health care? And schools? Really? Under an open the immigrant floodgates policy? Really? And any extra police numbers will get soaked up with more 'accountability' more paperwork, more 'equality' driven initiatives, more curbs and checks, more diversity training. What you won't get is any significant numbers of coppers on the beat, there still won't be any officers available when you house gets burgled. Its all froth and bubbles, thought out by trained spinmaker's and all designed to fool the young an gullible to think it's an easy answer. Surprisingly, there aren't any easy answers. And ethical foreign policy? Labours policy has never been whiter than white, Iraq anyone?
Okay, so, some of what we do we can't exactly be proud of, but don't for one moment believe that by not attempting to prevent the wholesale slaughter of others will lead to a safer Britain, ask yourself, why is Sweden being attacked? Why is Kenya being attacked? Why Tanzania? And why? Despite being a friend to Islam, despite opening its arms wide and saying "welcolm brothers" why is Germany being attacked?

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 12:12 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 29 2017, 12:34 PM) *
My take on where we are right now is simply for the last four decades British management, in its widest sense, sat down.

Actually old bean British management has been by and large asleep at the wheel since 1945! Look if you will at the British motor industry (Inc motorcycles) at one time we were amongst the best in the world, a fact that can be demonstrated by the fact that the Morris Oxford and the Enfield Bullet are still manufactered in India and still doing sterling work. But then we went to sleep. Badge engineering became our forte, swapping whatever still remained in parts bins for innovation, new model year? "Paint it a different colour" was the credo of the day. Old tooling, old ideas and a steadfast refusal to do anything new or innovative. And, in the face of rising foreign competition just bury the head in the sand. Remember the scorn poured on the heads of Japanese manufacturers? Sure, the unions did far more than their share of damage but it was little more than felling an already dead tree.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 12:15 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 29 2017, 12:50 PM) *
Better health care? And schools? Really? Under an open the immigrant floodgates policy? Really? And any extra police numbers will get soaked up with more 'accountability' more paperwork, more 'equality' driven initiatives, more curbs and checks, more diversity training. What you won't get is any significant numbers of coppers on the beat, there still won't be any officers available when you house gets burgled. Its all froth and bubbles, thought out by trained spinmaker's and all designed to fool the young an gullible to think it's an easy answer. Surprisingly, there aren't any easy answers. And ethical foreign policy? Labours policy has never been whiter than white, Iraq anyone?
Okay, so, some of what we do we can't exactly be proud of, but don't for one moment believe that by not attempting to prevent the wholesale slaughter of others will lead to a safer Britain, ask yourself, why is Sweden being attacked? Why is Kenya being attacked? Why Tanzania? And why? Despite being a friend to Islam, despite opening its arms wide and saying "welcolm brothers" why is Germany being attacked?



Its not Islam thats the problem its Wahhabism.
This brand of Islam encourages the death of all none believers.
Whichever Country they come from.

And the idea that we would not have been attacked if we had not got involved in the middle east is preposterous. It makes no difference. They want you dead... unless you convert.


Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 01:26 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 29 2017, 12:50 PM) *
Better health care? And schools? Really? Under an open the immigrant floodgates policy? Really? And any extra police numbers will get soaked up with more 'accountability' more paperwork, more 'equality' driven initiatives, more curbs and checks, more diversity training. What you won't get is any significant numbers of coppers on the beat, there still won't be any officers available when you house gets burgled. Its all froth and bubbles, thought out by trained spinmaker's and all designed to fool the young an gullible to think it's an easy answer. Surprisingly, there aren't any easy answers. And ethical foreign policy? Labours policy has never been whiter than white, Iraq anyone?
Okay, so, some of what we do we can't exactly be proud of, but don't for one moment believe that by not attempting to prevent the wholesale slaughter of others will lead to a safer Britain, ask yourself, why is Sweden being attacked? Why is Kenya being attacked? Why Tanzania? And why? Despite being a friend to Islam, despite opening its arms wide and saying "welcolm brothers" why is Germany being attacked?

I'm sure you can Google those countries to see why they are being attacked (clue: they have forces in or involved Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya/Syria etc.)

It's a myth that education and health are suffering due to immigration. They are suffering due to massive cuts under the Conservative austerity measures.

Labour's foreign policy under Blair was a betrayal in my opinion. He is a war criminal and should be locked up..... but Labour did a lot that was good and Corbyn has always opposed our involvement in those wars.


Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 01:27 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 29 2017, 01:15 PM) *
And the idea that we would not have been attacked if we had not got involved in the middle east is preposterous. It makes no difference. They want you dead... unless you convert.

You type without fail utter nonsense. You never make a serious contribution.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 01:41 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 02:27 PM) *
You type without fail utter nonsense. You never make a serious contribution.

Better than the sh1t you spout. And thats what snowflake liberals like you do. Don't argue. Just try and shut people down unless they conform to the fantasy land cr@p that comes out of your cakehole. Go and get a bumble bee tattoo and type #prayfor in your browser... Then vote for JC and Abbott. Pr1ck.

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 01:44 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 29 2017, 02:41 PM) *
Better than the sh1t you spout. And thats what snowflake liberals like you do. Don't argue. Just try and shut people down unless they conform to the fantasy land cr@p that comes out of your cakehole. Go and get a bumble bee tattoo and type #prayfor in your browser... Then vote for JC and Abbott. Pr1ck.

Why so angry? Was your childhood particularly troubled? #prayfor TDH.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 01:47 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 02:44 PM) *
Why so angry? Was your childhood particularly troubled? #prayfor TDH.

I'm not angry. I just think you are an imbecile. I pity you.😂😂

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 02:24 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 01:12 PM) *
Actually old bean British management has been by and large asleep at the wheel since 1945! Look if you will at the British motor industry (Inc motorcycles) at one time we were amongst the best in the world, a fact that can be demonstrated by the fact that the Morris Oxford and the Enfield Bullet are still manufactered in India and still doing sterling work. But then we went to sleep. Badge engineering became our forte, swapping whatever still remained in parts bins for innovation, new model year? "Paint it a different colour" was the credo of the day. Old tooling, old ideas and a steadfast refusal to do anything new or innovative. And, in the face of rising foreign competition just bury the head in the sand. Remember the scorn poured on the heads of Japanese manufacturers? Sure, the unions did far more than their share of damage but it was little more than felling an already dead tree.


Quite. Indeed Stafford Cripps, one of those detested socialists actually saw this and tried to do something about it. ironically, given your example, was actually laughed at! Who by? The British Motor industry at an executive conference? Who failed to invest, even when told if the threats? Step forward financier directors like Jack Sangster and Bernard Docker who mortally damaged UK motorcycle industry. Odd, it was generally Labour initiatives trying to increase British management capability but having to fight Tory obstructionism all the way. Then one wonders how the Japs stormed ahead, again, it was a British management gyru showing them the way; which involved embrasing the workforce. Sure, it's easy to blame UK trades unions, but a quick look at how workers were treated reveals that managements probably got off lightly. Since then, we simply sold out and like most bent bubble promoters have ended up living off the capital account ever since.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 03:21 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 02:27 PM) *
You type without fail utter nonsense. You never make a serious contribution.


https://mobile.twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/869161660874858497

Yep. Blame the government and security forces. And she'd be Home Secretary.

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 04:16 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 29 2017, 04:21 PM) *
https://mobile.twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/869161660874858497

Yep. Blame the government and security forces. And she'd be Home Secretary.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lJZiqZaGA

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 04:33 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 02:26 PM) *
I'm sure you can Google those countries to see why they are being attacked (clue: they have forces in or involved Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya/Syria etc.)

It's a myth that education and health are suffering due to immigration. They are suffering due to massive cuts under the Conservative austerity measures.

Labour's foreign policy under Blair was a betrayal in my opinion. He is a war criminal and should be locked up..... but Labour did a lot that was good and Corbyn has always opposed our involvement in those wars.

My sister in law teaches in a school in Rochdale, eighty percent of her kids don't speak English, in her class only three speak any English and the others share five mother tongues between them. They do their best but at best it's next to hopeless. And that's only going to get worse. Your right about our Tony but let's not forget even labour has done damage, deregulation of gambling, all day drinking, I could if I wanted waste my time looking for more examples but those two on their own have wrecked homes, marriages and lives.

The NHS is easy to solve, if you're in work and can afford it you make a contribution at the point of access, on benefits it's free, over sixty it's free, non residents pay as does everyone else who has not been a resident for at least three years.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 04:38 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 05:16 PM) *
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lJZiqZaGA


Keep up the good work traitor. You need the men in white coats.

https://onsizzle.com/i/to-anger-a-conservative-lie-to-him-to-anger-a-5515524




Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 04:43 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 05:33 PM) *
My sister in law teaches in a school in Rochdale, eighty percent of her kids don't speak English, in her class only three speak any English and the others share five mother tongues between them. They do their best but at best it's next to hopeless. And that's only going to get worse. Your right about our Tony but let's not forget even labour has done damage, deregulation of gambling, all day drinking, I could if I wanted waste my time looking for more examples but those two on their own have wrecked homes, marriages and lives.

The NHS is easy to solve, if you're in work and can afford it you make a contribution at the point of access, on benefits it's free, over sixty it's free, non residents pay as does everyone else who has not been a resident for at least three years.


No problems in Rochdale I am aware of. Newres would be happy for his kids to attend school in the town and meet the nice locals. What could possibly go wrong?

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 04:51 PM

Before we go further, I am in no way 'anti labour' as a party it can and has done a very great deal to build this country, it's just I honestly believe that this far left bunch are bent on a crusade to damage our society beyond repair. I'm (luckily) reached an age where I have worked under many governments of both colours so I do have some experience to draw down. I've worked in garages, machine shops, factories and sales, I know how to work. My father and his father worked in the Welsh pits and my father started work, in a coalmine at age fourteen, I know what hardship and deprivation really are but, my father always voted (in my lifetime) conservative because he wanted a better life. I am sensible enough to realise he was right. If a better alternative to the Tory government comes along I might vote for it, but this ain't it. Not by a long chalk.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 05:05 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 05:51 PM) *
Before we go further, I am in no way 'anti labour' as a party it can and has done a very great deal to build this country, it's just I honestly believe that this far left bunch are bent on a crusade to damage our society beyond repair. I'm (luckily) reached an age where I have worked under many governments of both colours so I do have some experience to draw down. I've worked in garages, machine shops, factories and sales, I know how to work. My father and his father worked in the Welsh pits and my father started work, in a coalmine at age fourteen, I know what hardship and deprivation really are but, my father always voted (in my lifetime) conservative because he wanted a better life. I am sensible enough to realise he was right. If a better alternative to the Tory government comes along I might vote for it, but this ain't it. Not by a long chalk.


Its frightening that so many so called educated people have fallen for this pile of tosh. Newres is typical. Ex London. Moved to Newbury. Probably never remembers a true "Labour" government. Blair after all was Tory light. Its akin to France voting Le Pen in. But..it is a democracy so if thats what people want....

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 05:11 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 29 2017, 06:05 PM) *
Its frightening that so many so called educated people have fallen for this pile of tosh. Newres is typical. Ex London. Moved to Newbury. Probably never remembers a true "Labour" government. Blair after all was Tory light. Its akin to France voting Le Pen in. But..it is a democracy so if thats what people want....

How on earth can voting Labour be akin to voting Le Pen? More nonsense alongside calling me a traitor. Talk about being from the past.... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 05:21 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 06:11 PM) *
How on earth can voting Labour be akin to voting Le Pen? More nonsense alongside calling me a traitor. Talk about being from the past.... rolleyes.gif


Both exremists old boy. Le Pen far right. Corbyn far left. Wrong?

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 05:27 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 29 2017, 06:21 PM) *
Both exremists old boy. Le Pen far right. Corbyn far left. Wrong?

Yes, wrong. Le Pen is from an extreme and non mainstream party whereas Corbyn is the leader of the Labour party. A mainstream party with years of government already

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 05:47 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 05:51 PM) *
Before we go further, I am in no way 'anti labour' as a party it can and has done a very great deal to build this country, it's just I honestly believe that this far left bunch are bent on a crusade to damage our society beyond repair. I'm (luckily) reached an age where I have worked under many governments of both colours so I do have some experience to draw down. I've worked in garages, machine shops, factories and sales, I know how to work. My father and his father worked in the Welsh pits and my father started work, in a coalmine at age fourteen, I know what hardship and deprivation really are but, my father always voted (in my lifetime) conservative because he wanted a better life. I am sensible enough to realise he was right. If a better alternative to the Tory government comes along I might vote for it, but this ain't it. Not by a long chalk.


A better life under the Tories eh?

Education standards rock bottom
Firms taken over by foreign owners so no chance of promotion
Homes our kids can't afford until they are well past middle age
Poor quality and limited amount of homes to rent
Outlandish university fees to be repaid by salary deduction
Savings interest rates rock bottom
Extortionate community charges for less and less in return
NHS near to collapse
Zero hour contracts the norm
(Cont p.95)

When does this 'better life' start to get a mention?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 05:50 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 06:27 PM) *
Yes, wrong. Le Pen is from an extreme and non mainstream party whereas Corbyn is the leader of the Labour party. A mainstream party with years of government already

Very Wrong. Its not Labour. It's momentum and the left wing radicals that have infested the party. Far left. Far right. Its just far left is OK with you. Whats that smell? Oh its coffee. Wake up.😘

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 06:05 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 29 2017, 06:47 PM) *
A better life under the Tories eh?

Education standards rock bottom
Firms taken over by foreign owners so no chance of promotion
Homes our kids can't afford until they are well past middle age
Poor quality and limited amount of homes to rent
Outlandish university fees to be repaid by salary deduction
Savings interest rates rock bottom
Extortionate community charges for less and less in return
NHS near to collapse
Zero hour contracts the norm
(Cont p.95)

When does this 'better life' start to get a mention?

A better life for him and his family and he succeeded.

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 06:29 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 07:05 PM) *
A better life for him and his family and he succeeded.


Just a shame no one else will be able to do the same; no matter how hard they work or his clever they are. Nice!

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 06:36 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 29 2017, 07:29 PM) *
Just a shame no one else will be able to do the same; no matter how hard they work or his clever they are. Nice!

I did it, am I really that special?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 06:49 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 07:36 PM) *
I did it, am I really that special?


So did I. Amazing. Bl00dy miricale.😂😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 29 2017, 06:53 PM

And me! We must be a very exclusive club! We must get together and roast a peasant one night. 🤣

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 07:02 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 07:36 PM) *
I did it, am I really that special?


Now that invites several questions; first how high the bar? Do you have children still at school; what chance do they have?

For me, I had a similar background and some 40 plus years ago as a secondary school leaver managed to get a basic clerking job with a big firm. Earning around the basic wage for the time, we just about managed to buy a small town terraced house. The firm gave me the opportunity to pursue further education successfully to degree level and riding the then IT centric wave, managed a pretty good wage. My own children managed to secure Russell Group degrees, but to exploit them have moved to London and other SE towns where they'd jump at the chance of buying even a small one bed flat for 3 times salary. Most of the firms I had anything to do with are now in foreign hands headquartered overseas. Similarly, the strategic IT part is either outsourced to American consultants and increasingly delivered on by business in the Indian sub continent. Semi retired, I'm fortunate enough to meet business people of all disciplines and with very few exceptions, are just as disillusioned about the future as I am.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 07:06 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 29 2017, 07:53 PM) *
And me! We must be a very exclusive club! We must get together and roast a peasant one night. 🤣


I'd suggest newres but his meat would be a bit red for my tastes. laugh.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 07:06 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 29 2017, 08:02 PM) *
Now that invites several questions; first how high the bar? Do you have children still at school; what chance do they have?

For me, I had a similar background and some 40 plus years ago as a secondary school leaver managed to get a basic clerking job with a big firm. Earning around the basic wage for the time, we just about managed to buy a small town terraced house. The firm gave me the opportunity to pursue further education successfully to degree level and riding the then IT centric wave, managed a pretty good wage. My own children managed to secure Russell Group degrees, but to exploit them have moved to London and other SE towns where they'd jump at the chance of buying even a small one bed flat for 3 times salary. Most of the firms I had anything to do with are now in foreign hands headquartered overseas. Similarly, the strategic IT part is either outsourced to American consultants and increasingly delivered on by business in the Indian sub continent. Semi retired, I'm fortunate enough to meet business people of all disciplines and with very few exceptions, are just as disillusioned about the future as I am.

Whilst I own several houses, drive a large Audi and spend a month a year in the south of France.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 07:20 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 29 2017, 08:02 PM) *
Now that invites several questions; first how high the bar? Do you have children still at school; what chance do they have?

For me, I had a similar background and some 40 plus years ago as a secondary school leaver managed to get a basic clerking job with a big firm. Earning around the basic wage for the time, we just about managed to buy a small town terraced house. The firm gave me the opportunity to pursue further education successfully to degree level and riding the then IT centric wave, managed a pretty good wage. My own children managed to secure Russell Group degrees, but to exploit them have moved to London and other SE towns where they'd jump at the chance of buying even a small one bed flat for 3 times salary. Most of the firms I had anything to do with are now in foreign hands headquartered overseas. Similarly, the strategic IT part is either outsourced to American consultants and increasingly delivered on by business in the Indian sub continent. Semi retired, I'm fortunate enough to meet business people of all disciplines and with very few exceptions, are just as disillusioned about the future as I am.


I do get a lot of invites from overseas due to my x++, LCS, VSTS skills etc so I do acknowledge that thw UK has a skills shortage. i am lucky enough (or unlucky sometimes!!) to work for a Company that is not afraid to beta test for MS. A lot is to do with the CEO. A good one like mine has a 96% approval rating on glassdoor. A bad one can destroy a Company.

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 07:28 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 08:06 PM) *
Whilst I own several houses, drive a large Audi and spend a month a year in the south of France.

Owning an Audi isn't all that great unless it's an R8. Is it?

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 07:28 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 29 2017, 07:53 PM) *
And me! We must be a very exclusive club! We must get together and roast a peasant one night. 🤣


Actually, I don't think you are members of an exclusive club; more an aging failed one! It might be worth pondering why the Labour Party have put so much effort into canvassing the youngsters to get them registered and encouraged to vote.

Nonetheless, they are tomorrow's problem; so enjoy things whilst you can. At least Mrs M is putting a cap on the 'final spend up' at least for now....

Of course, I also fully appreciate, given our apparent success, criticism of past British management competence, necessarily includes me thus us!

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 07:28 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 08:28 PM) *
Owning an Audi isn't all that great unless it's an R8. Is it?

Better than a ford though.

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 07:32 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 08:06 PM) *
Whilst I own several houses, drive a large Audi and spend a month a year in the south of France.


Good for you and thanks for confirming that the returns in the domestic property market are far better than Investment British industry; just as I thought.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 07:34 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 29 2017, 08:32 PM) *
Good for you and thanks for confirming that the returns in the domestic property market are far better than Investment British industry; just as I thought.

Yup, it's called intelligent investment.

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 07:34 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 08:28 PM) *
Better than a ford though.

We've got a Mercedes as well. tongue.gif

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 07:37 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 29 2017, 08:20 PM) *
I do get a lot of invites from overseas due to my x++, LCS, VSTS skills etc so I do acknowledge that thw UK has a skills shortage. i am lucky enough (or unlucky sometimes!!) to work for a Company that is not afraid to beta test for MS. A lot is to do with the CEO. A good one like mine has a 96% approval rating on glassdoor. A bad one can destroy a Company.


That's great, and certainly underlines the issues with UK education. And as for company executives, as you rightly say, a bad one can destroy a company, which given the reducing number of British firms, supports the contention that UK management has been seriously deficient for years.

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 07:37 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 08:34 PM) *
Yup, it's called intelligent investment.

Any dumb **** could do it. Hardly intelligent.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 07:42 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 08:37 PM) *
Any dumb **** could do it. Hardly intelligent.

Have you? Hmm?

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 29 2017, 07:44 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 08:34 PM) *
We've got a Mercedes as well. tongue.gif

My range rover sport trump's your merc 😊

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 07:46 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 08:34 PM) *
Yup, it's called intelligent investment.



For you. yes it's a good return. Logical yes, and if you think about it, the decision was common sense so relatively little intelligence was needed.

I wonder just how good it stays as your tenants real earnings start to dip and indeed the building industry catch up and provide many more new homes. It's a risk worth taking I'm sure, but it's there nonetheless.

Still, make hay whilst the Sun shines, because as we are seeing from recent Budgets, the treasury wonks don't see this situation as intelligent economics for the Country.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 07:47 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 29 2017, 08:44 PM) *
My range rover sport trump's your merc 😊


I get the train.😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 29 2017, 08:02 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 29 2017, 08:46 PM) *
For you. yes it's a good return. Logical yes, and if you think about it, the decision was common sense so relatively little intelligence was needed.

I wonder just how good it stays as your tenants real earnings start to dip and indeed the building industry catch up and provide many more new homes. It's a risk worth taking I'm sure, but it's there nonetheless.

Still, make hay whilst the Sun shines, because as we are seeing from recent Budgets, the treasury wonks don't see this situation as intelligent economics for the Country.

And I suspect nay, expect most people's earnings to fit under labour. And I can't see land getting cheaper or builders want to make less profit for the shareholders.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 29 2017, 08:04 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 29 2017, 08:47 PM) *
I get the train.😂

We looked at a train, but we don't have room in the driveway. 😎

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 08:16 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 08:34 PM) *
We've got a Mercedes as well. tongue.gif

A Merc? That'll be a hate crime under corbyn!! seriously though, which one is it? I quite like the new E Class. ph34r.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 08:19 PM

Just watched Corbyn on SKY. He did well.

However, If I was Argentinian or Spanish I would be taking the view that come June 9th both the Falklands and Gibraltar were fair game if Corbyn won. In fact I'd just walk in. After all whats he going to do? Call a meeting????

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 08:20 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 08:42 PM) *
Have you? Hmm?

In the past.

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 08:20 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 29 2017, 08:44 PM) *
My range rover sport trump's your merc 😊

Yes, but you used an apostrophe incorrectly so I can still look down on you. tongue.gif

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 08:21 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 09:16 PM) *
A Merc? That'll be a hate crime under corbyn!! seriously though, which one is it? I quite like the new E Class. ph34r.gif


A declining number of us can well remember when it was a 'hate crime' previously; but then we had a motor industry ourselves. We made the best in the World, even now a Roller probably trumps a Merc...if you can really afford quality!

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 08:24 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 29 2017, 09:19 PM) *
Just watched Corbyn on SKY. He did well.

However, If I was Argentinian or Spanish I would be taking the view that come June 9th both the Falklands and Gibraltar were fair game if Corbyn won. In fact I'd just walk in. After all whats he going to do? Call a meeting????

He did do well. You make the mistake of thinking that having a big mouth makes one strong. Corbyn I would suggest to you has real stregnth to have put up with all the attacks he has and still come out fighting. And to win people over. I include me.

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 08:25 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 29 2017, 09:21 PM) *
A declining number of us can well remember when it was a 'hate crime' previously; but then we had a motor industry ourselves. We made the best in the World, even now a Roller probably trumps a Merc...if you can really afford quality!

Rollers are German now aren't they? biggrin.gif

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 08:27 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 09:16 PM) *
A Merc? That'll be a hate crime under corbyn!! seriously though, which one is it? I quite like the new E Class. ph34r.gif

E class, but it's a few years old. Is there a new one? I must admit my dream car would be a Range Rover Sport. Maybe when I'm old like Je Suis Charlie and no longer have anything else to spend money on I might be able to buy one. £70 or £80k aren't they.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 08:27 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 29 2017, 09:21 PM) *
A declining number of us can well remember when it was a 'hate crime' previously; but then we had a motor industry ourselves. We made the best in the World, even now a Roller probably trumps a Merc...if you can really afford quality!

I've always thought the Rolls was a trifle passe a tough vulger, the sort of thing pub landlords drive. However, Bentley! Now there's a gentlemans conveyance, just a shame they tend to be driven by footballers these days. Its also a shame that neither survive under British ownershio. Good lors, even Volvo is owned by the chinese these days. Is nothing sacred??

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 08:28 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 09:24 PM) *
He did do well. You make the mistake of thinking that having a big mouth makes one strong. Corbyn I would suggest to you has real stregnth to have put up with all the attacks he has and still come out fighting. And to win people over. I include me.


I dont trust him to defend the Country. Period. You think he'd defend GIB and the FI? He'd go to the useless UN.

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 08:30 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 29 2017, 09:28 PM) *
I dont trust him to defend the Country. Period. You think he'd defend GIB and the FI? He'd go to the useless UN.

I think you're wrong. I suspect he would exhaust all options though before sending boys to their deaths as Thatcher did.

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 08:32 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 09:27 PM) *
I've always thought the Rolls was a trifle passe a tough vulger, the sort of thing pub landlords drive. However, Bentley! Now there's a gentlemans conveyance, just a shame they tend to be driven by footballers these days. Its also a shame that neither survive under British ownershio. Good lors, even Volvo is owned by the chinese these days. Is nothing sacred??

I didn't know that about Volvo. Pub landlords liked Jags I think. Dodgy property developers went for Rollers. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 08:32 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 09:27 PM) *
E class, but it's a few years old. Is there a new one? I must admit my dream car would be a Range Rover Sport. Maybe when I'm old like Je Suis Charlie and no longer have anything else to spend money on I might be able to buy one. £70 or £80k aren't they.

The W213 old chap, lovely car, a touch 'russian doll' and some of the interior is a touch brash, but still a nice car. New diesel motor as well, very smooth and quiet as well as efficient. Its one of those, the new A6 when it finally appears, or the new Volvo in either xc60 or s90 form. Decisions decisions.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 08:35 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 09:32 PM) *
I didn't know that about Volvo. Pub landlords liked Jags I think. Dodgy property developers went for Rollers. biggrin.gif

Owned by Geeley I'm afraid, still making some jolly nice cars though. Their new two ltr Petrol is available with a supercharger as well as a turbo. Oh, and I'm still not 'dodgy' enough for a rolls. Just too Dell Boy.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 29 2017, 08:36 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 09:30 PM) *
I think you're wrong. I suspect he would exhaust all options though before sending boys to their deaths as Thatcher did.


Maggie... The greatest leader since Churchill...😁

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 08:38 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 09:32 PM) *
The W213 old chap, lovely car, a touch 'russian doll' and some of the interior is a touch brash, but still a nice car. New diesel motor as well, very smooth and quiet as well as efficient. Its one of those, the new A6 when it finally appears, or the new Volvo in either xc60 or s90 form. Decisions decisions.

The interior of the new XC Volvos is nice I have to say.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 08:39 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 09:30 PM) *
I think you're wrong. I suspect he would exhaust all options though before sending boys to their deaths as Thatcher did.

I think once a foreigh power has bypassed diplomacy and invaded sovereign territory their is little else to do, regrettable but sometimes the only option. Far to many brave boys died or were maimed. Using french arms I may add.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 08:40 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 09:38 PM) *
The interior of the new XC Volvos is nice I have to say.

yes, Nappa leather, BIG touch screens and tech up the yazzoo, all singing and dancing semi autonomy. Impressive.

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 08:42 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 09:39 PM) *
I think once a foreigh power has bypassed diplomacy and invaded sovereign territory their is little else to do, regrettable but sometimes the only option. Far to many brave boys died or were maimed. Using french arms I may add.

In the case of the Falklands we'll never know. I wonder if it's a coincidence that the most unpopular PM in modern times won a landslide on the back of it.

https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2016/03/01/private-eye-cartoon-falklands-war-memorial/

Posted by: Turin Machine May 29 2017, 08:43 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 09:42 PM) *
In the case of the Falklands we'll never know. I wonder if it's a coincidence that the most unpopular PM in modern times won a landslide on the back of it.

https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2016/03/01/private-eye-cartoon-falklands-war-memorial/

Which was precisely what Mr Blair tried to emulate.

Posted by: newres May 29 2017, 08:57 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 09:43 PM) *
Which was precisely what Mr Blair tried to emulate.

I'm not sure about that. Much as I despise him.

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 09:12 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 09:25 PM) *
Rollers are German now aren't they? biggrin.gif


Quite!

Posted by: On the edge May 29 2017, 09:14 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 29 2017, 09:27 PM) *
I've always thought the Rolls was a trifle passe a tough vulger, the sort of thing pub landlords drive. However, Bentley! Now there's a gentlemans conveyance, just a shame they tend to be driven by footballers these days. Its also a shame that neither survive under British ownershio. Good lors, even Volvo is owned by the chinese these days. Is nothing sacred??


Umm, glorifying the collapse of British industry and I thought it was only me seeing our desolate productive landscape.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 29 2017, 11:13 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 29 2017, 10:14 PM) *
Umm, glorifying the collapse of British industry and I thought it was only me seeing our desolate productive landscape.

Yeah, wotevaar!

Posted by: Biker1 May 30 2017, 07:10 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 29 2017, 02:26 PM) *
It's a myth that education and health are suffering due to immigration.

No it isn't.
How can having a burgeoning population of 250,000 a year (that we know of) NOT have an effect on public services if they are not expanded at a rate that will compensate? Which is almost physically and financially impossible.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 30 2017, 08:06 AM

The language barrier is another problem, but immigration creates tax revenue which helps support services. However, whether recent governments have invested that revenue sufficiently is another matter. Equally, whether we would be better-off without high levels of immigration is also questionable.

Posted by: newres May 30 2017, 11:12 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 30 2017, 08:10 AM) *
No it isn't.
How can having a burgeoning population of 250,000 a year (that we know of) NOT have an effect on public services if they are not expanded at a rate that will compensate? Which is almost physically and financially impossible.

The vast majority of whom are paying tax that doesn't get invested in the NHS. The problem is under investment.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 30 2017, 11:34 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 30 2017, 12:12 PM) *
The vast majority of whom are paying tax that doesn't get invested in the NHS. The problem is under investment.

I think it is a case of the government wanting the cake and eating it.

Posted by: Biker1 May 30 2017, 12:13 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 30 2017, 12:12 PM) *
The vast majority of whom are paying tax that doesn't get invested in the NHS. The problem is under investment.

Oh I see.
So it is simply a matter of funding the NHS with as much cash as it needs (currently £120Bn a year (that's £120,000 million! although it could swallow an infinite amount) which you obviously think isn't enough) so it can grow sufficiently in order to accommodate the huge ongoing increase in population?

Posted by: newres May 30 2017, 04:53 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 30 2017, 01:13 PM) *
Oh I see.
So it is simply a matter of funding the NHS with as much cash as it needs (currently £120Bn a year (that's £120,000 million! although it could swallow an infinite amount) which you obviously think isn't enough) so it can grow sufficiently in order to accommodate the huge ongoing increase in population?

That's a different argument.

The majority of immigrants are young so actually put less strain on the NHS. Without immigrants the NHS would collapse. Immigration is a tax gain for the UK.

Now how given that information how are the problems in the NHS caused by immigrants? Is it in the same way that immigrants have slowed down the M4? wink.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 30 2017, 06:11 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 30 2017, 01:13 PM) *
Oh I see.
So it is simply a matter of funding the NHS with as much cash as it needs (currently £120Bn a year (that's £120,000 million! although it could swallow an infinite amount) which you obviously think isn't enough) so it can grow sufficiently in order to accommodate the huge ongoing increase in population?


Its Ok. We are getting #CorbynCare
Everything is free and no one has to work.
I guess the Pound crashing if he got elected would be currency fluctuations and nothing to do with him not having a money tree.

Posted by: newres May 30 2017, 06:22 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 30 2017, 07:11 PM) *
Its Ok. We are getting #CorbynCare
Everything is free and no one has to work.
I guess the Pound crashing if he got elected would be currency fluctuations and nothing to do with him not having a money tree.

i guess the pound crashing after Brexit was ok because the sky didn't fall in and there weren't plagues of locusts as well. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 30 2017, 08:05 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 30 2017, 07:22 PM) *
i guess the pound crashing after Brexit was ok because the sky didn't fall in and there weren't plagues of locusts as well. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


The IMF will declare us Greece 2... The sequel.

Posted by: newres May 30 2017, 08:12 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 30 2017, 09:05 PM) *
The IMF will declare us Greece 2... The sequel.

Oh Sandy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMblmkcdJEw

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 30 2017, 08:20 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 30 2017, 09:12 PM) *
Oh Sandy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMblmkcdJEw


OJN in her prime...luvly jubbly.😀

Posted by: newres May 30 2017, 08:33 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 30 2017, 09:20 PM) *
OJN in her prime...luvly jubbly.😀

A Tuesday treat!

Posted by: newres May 30 2017, 08:41 PM

Does Simon know that JC has an allotment? I didn't know until The One Show clip.

Posted by: Simon Kirby May 30 2017, 08:58 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 30 2017, 09:41 PM) *
Does Simon know that JC has an allotment? I didn't know until The One Show clip.

Yes, I knew. It's one of the many things that endeared him to me when he was running for the Labour Party leadership.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 30 2017, 09:20 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 30 2017, 09:33 PM) *
A Tuesday treat!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40100915

😞😞

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 31 2017, 05:53 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 30 2017, 07:22 PM) *
i guess the pound crashing after Brexit was ok because the sky didn't fall in and there weren't plagues of locusts as well. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


Even the idea he might win has seen pound crash this morning. Zimbabwe here we come
😂

Posted by: newres May 31 2017, 06:07 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 31 2017, 06:53 AM) *
Even the idea he might win has seen pound crash this morning. Zimbabwe here we come
😂

No, you're getting it wrong again. It crashed after Brexit. It might flutter still, but the crash already happened. I actually think the pound may recover because people will see we will remain in the single market - uncertainty about which was the reason for the crash. JC is clear that we will remain in the single market.

Posted by: newres May 31 2017, 06:09 AM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 30 2017, 09:58 PM) *
Yes, I knew. It's one of the many things that endeared him to me when he was running for the Labour Party leadership.

I'm beginning to think I was wrong about him. I did like a few things about him before, but I thought he was too extreme. I like to think I'm too smart to be manipulated by the media, but clearly I was wrong.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 31 2017, 06:23 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 31 2017, 07:07 AM) *
No, you're getting it wrong again. It crashed after Brexit. It might flutter still, but the crash already happened. I actually think the pound may recover because people will see we will remain in the single market - uncertainty about which was the reason for the crash. JC is clear that we will remain in the single market.


😂 Even the idea of him winning made the pound "fluctuate". Just waiting for the land grab policy.

Posted by: On the edge May 31 2017, 06:41 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 31 2017, 06:53 AM) *
Even the idea he might win has seen pound crash this morning. Zimbabwe here we come
😂


Aah, so you'd rather us on the same road as Greece?

Posted by: On the edge May 31 2017, 06:44 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 31 2017, 07:23 AM) *
😂 Even the idea of him winning made the pound "fluctuate". Just waiting for the land grab policy.


Can you outline the land grab policy?

Seriously, housing is a big issue for a lot of people and it's pretty clear that we do need a solution to our present problems.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 31 2017, 07:19 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 31 2017, 07:44 AM) *
Can you outline the land grab policy?

Seriously, housing is a big issue for a lot of people and it's pretty clear that we do need a solution to our present problems.

Hundreds of thousands of people flooding in don't help.

Posted by: Biker1 May 31 2017, 08:29 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 08:19 AM) *
Hundreds of thousands of people flooding in don't help.

Yep, and they're clogging up the M4!

Posted by: Biker1 May 31 2017, 08:36 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 30 2017, 05:53 PM) *
That's a different argument.

No it isn't.
You claimed the problems with the NHS was that it is "under funded".
The NHS will never be fully funded in the eyes of many.
The behemoth will swallow up as much money as you would care to give it to infinity and would still be "under funded".
I do not know the answer, but a spiralling population surely can't help?
You say the majority of immigrants are young but they still need healthcare and will be having babies.
Just because one is young doesn't mean one doesn't need healthcare. (And they will get older you know!)

So immigration enhance the NHS and the problem is under investment?
Given that information do you still think this is true, or ids this tiny island of infinite size?

Posted by: On the edge May 31 2017, 08:38 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 08:19 AM) *
Hundreds of thousands of people flooding in don't help.


Ah, can see the connection. So that's why Tory 'sell everything' economic policy is in place. Certainly makes sense, why would you want to come to a Country which only has grunt jobs, you can't get anywhere decent to live and your kids don't get educated.

Posted by: On the edge May 31 2017, 08:52 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 31 2017, 09:29 AM) *
Yep, and they're clogging up the M4!


Population increase is a big issue and deserves to be taken seriously. There are several factors causing our problems and no easy answer. It's particularly acute in London and its suburbs which we will now start to see as Newbury is the end of the suburban commute route.

Like the NHS, housing and infrastructure provision will continue to creek as the results of post war baby boom bubble squeeze through. With no real productive capacity and commercial agricultural decline, only London continues to boom with its dogy financial 'skills'.

Where we haven't invested in automation or want very cheap personal services, our demand for migrant labour will continue.

By the way, that includes Nurses and Doctors, because those who voted for Mrs T didn't think we needed to train nurses and if we trained doctors, we'd make more money training overseas ones. Sad really, because loads of kids want to be Doctors, but the Tory version of trades unions stamped on that one pretty sharpish!

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 31 2017, 11:19 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 31 2017, 09:52 AM) *
Population increase is a big issue and deserves to be taken seriously. There are several factors causing our problems and no easy answer. It's particularly acute in London and its suburbs which we will now start to see as Newbury is the end of the suburban commute route.

Like the NHS, housing and infrastructure provision will continue to creek as the results of post war baby boom bubble squeeze through. With no real productive capacity and commercial agricultural decline, only London continues to boom with its dogy financial 'skills'.

Where we haven't invested in automation or want very cheap personal services, our demand for migrant labour will continue.

By the way, that includes Nurses and Doctors, because those who voted for Mrs T didn't think we needed to train nurses and if we trained doctors, we'd make more money training overseas ones. Sad really, because loads of kids want to be Doctors, but the Tory version of trades unions stamped on that one pretty sharpish!

A moment, I sense a repeat of the dogma that seems to be prevalent that "its all the oldie's fault"

Dodgy financial skills? In the city? Shurely these can't be the same dodgy skills everyone tells me that we will lose if we Brexit? And why that's a good reason not to do it?

And migrant unskilled labour will always be wanted, true, because it's cheap. And it's precisely because it's cheap that very many of these workers may not even hit the threshold at which they pay tax. So where's the economic input there?

Posted by: On the edge May 31 2017, 12:08 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 12:19 PM) *
A moment, I sense a repeat of the dogma that seems to be prevalent that "its all the oldie's fault"

Dodgy financial skills? In the city? Shurely these can't be the same dodgy skills everyone tells me that we will lose if we Brexit? And why that's a good reason not to do it?

And migrant unskilled labour will always be wanted, true, because it's cheap. And it's precisely because it's cheap that very many of these workers may not even hit the threshold at which they pay tax. So where's the economic input there?


You are quite right, it is the Tory dogma; Country for everyone and everyone for themselves. Nothing wrong with that boys is there?

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 31 2017, 12:30 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 31 2017, 01:08 PM) *
You are quite right, it is the Tory dogma; Country for everyone and everyone for themselves. Nothing wrong with that boys is there?

Which, apart from the polemic, answers precisely none of my points. Bit like JC when asked how much his latest scheme would cost, you simply don't know. 😋

Posted by: On the edge May 31 2017, 03:45 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 01:30 PM) *
Which, apart from the polemic, answers precisely none of my points. Bit like JC when asked how much his latest scheme would cost, you simply don't know. 😋


Oh dear Je suis Charlie, don't you like it when someone steals your clothes? Don't worry imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 31 2017, 04:08 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 31 2017, 04:45 PM) *
Oh dear Je suis Charlie, don't you like it when someone steals your clothes? Don't worry imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Still haven't answered though, have you. Your posts are like sky rockets, they amuse many whilst illuminating few.

Posted by: On the edge May 31 2017, 06:00 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 12:19 PM) *
A moment, I sense a repeat of the dogma that seems to be prevalent that "its all the oldie's fault"

Dodgy financial skills? In the city? Shurely these can't be the same dodgy skills everyone tells me that we will lose if we Brexit? And why that's a good reason not to do it?

And migrant unskilled labour will always be wanted, true, because it's cheap. And it's precisely because it's cheap that very many of these workers may not even hit the threshold at which they pay tax. So where's the economic input there?


Simply this, we are continually fed by the flag carriers for project fear that on Brexit the 'city' will migrate to Europe. That coupled with the view that the only real international income the nation earns comes from the city. Well, fine, the type of merchant banking we do here really isn't interested in our national success just its own and is now broadly out of control. There is evidence that the lack of probity and integrity is beginning to hit our international insurance business; financial products follow. Absoluley nothing wrong with sharp practice, that's raw market forces, but that inhibits return business and so is not sustainable.

For cheap migrant labour, the 'economic input' is the tax the business they work for pays. There are also intangibles in that the indigenous population have a wider bandwidth of purchasing power.

In both cases, there is an unfortunate effect on house prices, artificially high because of the scarcity of land. That is, the high bank wage rates mean even in Greater London modest homes reach unrreachable prices; the knock on meaning longer commutes and higher prices in the suburbs as is starting round here waiting for electrification. On the other hand, in high migrant areas, such as agricultural eastern England, there is a shortage of low value homes at the other end of the market. London consequently suffers both.

Posted by: On the edge May 31 2017, 06:01 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 05:08 PM) *
Still haven't answered though, have you. Your posts are like sky rockets, they amuse many whilst illuminating few.


There you are, not sure you'll like it but thanks for the unjustified complement.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 31 2017, 06:34 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 31 2017, 07:01 PM) *
There you are, not sure you'll like it but thanks for the unjustified complement.

Err, not sure if it was a complement?

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 31 2017, 06:36 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 31 2017, 07:01 PM) *
There you are, not sure you'll like it but thanks for the unjustified complement.

That took you ages to Google!

Posted by: On the edge May 31 2017, 06:42 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 07:36 PM) *
That took you ages to Google!


Find it yourself and let me know the result; I quite like it when I agree with Google.

Why do you assume people can't think for themselves, didn't they teach you how to do that that at your public school or are standards dropping there as well cool.gif

Posted by: On the edge May 31 2017, 06:44 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 31 2017, 07:34 PM) *
Err, not sure if it was a complement?


I'm ever the optimist Turin Machine,

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 31 2017, 06:51 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 31 2017, 07:42 PM) *
Find it yourself and let me know the result; I quite like it when I agree with Google.

Why do you assume people can't think for themselves, didn't they teach you how to do that that at your public school or are standards dropping there as well cool.gif

The punctuation, sentence structure, use of big words just scream cut n paste. Also the fact it doesn't look like it had been typed by a baboon stabbing repeatedly at broken keyboard. 🤔

Posted by: On the edge May 31 2017, 08:16 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 07:51 PM) *
The punctuation, sentence structure, use of big words just scream cut n paste. Also the fact it doesn't look like it had been typed by a baboon stabbing repeatedly at broken keyboard. 🤔

I.e. You can't even be ars*d to look!

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 31 2017, 09:27 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 31 2017, 09:16 PM) *
I.e. You can't even be ars*d to look!

Why would I? When I've got a half brained monkey to do it for me? Kiss kiss! 😘

Posted by: On the edge May 31 2017, 09:41 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 31 2017, 10:27 PM) *
Why would I? When I've got a half brained monkey to do it for me? Kiss kiss! 😘


Glad to hear it, presumably you must be one of the only people with a pet having an IQ higher than yours!

Posted by: Andy Capp May 31 2017, 11:04 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 31 2017, 10:41 PM) *
Glad to hear it, presumably you must be one of the only people with a pet having an IQ higher than yours!

Nah, I have a feral cat which might be higher than JSC's too! tongue.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine May 31 2017, 11:44 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 31 2017, 10:41 PM) *
Glad to hear it, presumably you must be one of the only people with a pet having an IQ higher than yours!

He meant you tongue.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine May 31 2017, 11:45 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 1 2017, 12:04 AM) *
Nah, I have a feral cat which might be higher than JC's too! tongue.gif

fixed it for you.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 1 2017, 04:30 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 1 2017, 12:04 AM) *
Nah, I have a feral cat which might be higher than JSC's too! tongue.gif

laugh.gif

Posted by: Biker1 Jun 1 2017, 05:30 PM

This thread started out with TDH recalling an unfortunate fall at the station and threatening legal action and general disruption against GWR and it's staff.
How's things on that front TDH?

Posted by: newres Jun 1 2017, 06:22 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 11 2017, 06:54 PM) *
On January 20th 2016 I was coming home from work on the 1730 from Reading to Newbury. I had had a busy day and was looking forward to a good evening.

Whilst on the train the temperature dropped dramatically. I was well wrapped up though so thought no more of it...

I arrived at Newbury Station and on exiting the station stepped on a frozen metal pole which caused me to fall. Trying to save myself from falling into the Network rail pumps that have been there for what seems like forever I put my right arm out. Whack! Phew I thought as I lay on the frozen floor. Then I tried to move. Never felt pain like it... My shoulder was badly dislocated. I cannot describe the pain. It was worse than a broken bone.... Paramedics were called, clothes were cut off including a suit and overcoat. Morphine etc was given. 3 attempts it took to get it back in at the Royal Berks. Off work for weeks and having a permanent weakness now in my shoulder is nothing compared to trying to get justice...

I tried to stupidly get some compensation for this incident as it was clearly no fault of mine. 13 months later and having contacted GWR, Newbury Train Station, Network Rail I have now been fobbed off to West Berks Council. I guess l'll just have to sue the employees on duty that day as all the big companies no longer accept liablity for anything. In the words of the donald. SEE YOU IN COURT.

Compensation culture.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 2 2017, 01:39 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 1 2017, 07:22 PM) *
Compensation culture.


What a funny man. Hope you cop an unfortunate one.

Posted by: newres Jun 2 2017, 01:42 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 2 2017, 02:39 PM) *
What a funny man. Hope you cop an unfortunate one.

If I did I wouldn't be looking for a payout for not taking care in cold weather. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 2 2017, 03:06 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 2 2017, 02:42 PM) *
If I did I wouldn't be looking for a payout for not taking care in cold weather. rolleyes.gif

Not taking care? You really are a fool.

Posted by: Andy Capp Sep 22 2017, 09:02 PM

Newbury trains on P12B is not funny you waste of steel and diesel!

Posted by: Turin Machine Sep 22 2017, 09:14 PM

get a car mate.

Posted by: SirWilliam Sep 23 2017, 09:06 AM

Does seem ironic that insurance companies will happily pay out on a fraudulent claim with a view to reclaiming the money at a later date but drag their heals on a straight forward incident .
I have had two "run ins" with those who we pay huge premiums to recently and both times I wish I hadn't started . Yes , it is the claim culture that is to blame but that is scant consolation to the aggrieved .

Posted by: Biker1 Sep 24 2017, 06:42 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Sep 22 2017, 10:14 PM) *
get a car mate.

Yes, get a car because the roads are never hit by delays and disruption are they?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-41371699 tongue.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Sep 24 2017, 09:19 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Sep 24 2017, 07:42 AM) *
Yes, get a car because the roads are never hit by delays and disruption are they?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-41371699 tongue.gif


You think it's bad now , just wait another 10 years and nothing will be moving , except the planet . Now I have this theory that once the atmosphere has been depleted by the use of all those nasty combustion engines all we need to do is jump into the air and , providing we get the trajectory correct , we will land X miles from where we started .
Ok so life and it's support system will be long gone ,but it will solve the transport problems. wink.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Sep 24 2017, 06:44 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Sep 24 2017, 10:19 AM) *
You think it's bad now , just wait another 10 years and nothing will be moving , except the planet . Now I have this theory that once the atmosphere has been depleted by the use of all those nasty combustion engines all we need to do is jump into the air and , providing we get the trajectory correct , we will land X miles from where we started .
Ok so life and it's support system will be long gone ,but it will solve the transport problems. wink.gif

Got caught out on M3 yesterday going to boat show, still we had the picnic and a fridge in the back so it wasn't bad at all.

Posted by: SirWilliam Sep 25 2017, 08:41 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Sep 24 2017, 07:44 PM) *
Got caught out on M3 yesterday going to boat show, still we had the picnic and a fridge in the back so it wasn't bad at all.


Back in the day small boys would push a potato up the exhaust pipe of plod's Velocette LE and laugh for a week at seeing him push it back to the office . Now they chuck a plastic bag off a motorway bridge and the planet grinds to a halt .
I know we live in dangerous times but surely this incident didn't warrant such prolonged action ? What sort of message does it portray to those who would do us harm ?

Posted by: Biker1 Sep 25 2017, 09:21 AM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Sep 25 2017, 09:41 AM) *
Back in the day small boys would push a potato up the exhaust pipe of plod's Velocette LE and laugh for a week at seeing him push it back to the office . Now they chuck a plastic bag off a motorway bridge and the planet grinds to a halt .
I know we live in dangerous times but surely this incident didn't warrant such prolonged action ? What sort of message does it portray to those who would do us harm ?

Just had a thought! (Yes, you can curb the sarcasm please!)
What if we were a few years down the line and all those cars were electric?
Hundreds of cars sat there for seven hours watching the charge meter gradually drop to zero!! ohmy.gif
(OK being the day it was you could probably just shut everything off, but what if it was freezing cold (or baking hot!?))
(Or very dark?)

Posted by: je suis Charlie Sep 25 2017, 10:00 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Sep 25 2017, 10:21 AM) *
Just had a thought! (Yes, you can curb the sarcasm please!)
What if we were a few years down the line and all those cars were electric?
Hundreds of cars sat there for seven hours watching the charge meter gradually drop to zero!! ohmy.gif
(OK being the day it was you could probably just shut everything off, but what if it was freezing cold (or baking hot!?))
(Or very dark?)

Pixie dust, that's the answer, to everything!

Posted by: Biker1 Sep 25 2017, 10:22 AM

Perhaps the auxiliary battery is separate to the propulsion battery.
So that's OK then.
You will freeze to death or die of heat exhaustion but you will still be able to move when the opportunity finally arises.

(All our problems are the result of Brexit and they can all be resolved with pixie dust. Nice!!) biggrin.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine Sep 25 2017, 11:06 AM

I just depend on teenagers being able to fix it. They know the answer to everything, apparently.

Posted by: SirWilliam Sep 25 2017, 01:23 PM

The answer is , incase anyone asks , to line the vehicles up nose to tail and we walk , in the reassuring knowledge that if we get tired there will be a car seat on which to rest our weary limbs. Simples . Just needs a bit of lateral thinking .

Posted by: Biker1 Sep 26 2017, 09:05 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Sep 25 2017, 12:06 PM) *
I just depend on teenagers being able to fix it. They know the answer to everything, apparently.

Especially who to vote for to sort out all their problems! tongue.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Sep 26 2017, 10:59 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Sep 26 2017, 10:05 AM) *
Especially who to vote for to sort out all their problems! tongue.gif

O RLY ?

Posted by: The Hatter Oct 16 2017, 12:45 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Sep 25 2017, 12:06 PM) *
I just depend on teenagers being able to fix it. They know the answer to everything, apparently.


Let's just hope the teenagers do know the answers and aren't relying on the oldies to tell them how to do things. This morning's disaster shows what a fist their generation had made! With their sparkly new train too.

Posted by: Mr Brown Oct 16 2017, 01:18 PM

We have Southern where my partner's parents live. Their train drivers made life very difficult recently and scorn was poured on their claim that they weren't striking for money. After being caught up in this morning's events, it now looks to me as if they had a very good point. I really hope this isn't showcasing how good our railways are after all the years of investment.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 16 2017, 02:34 PM

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/intercity-express-train-break-down-first-service-bristol-london-paddington-transport-secretary-rush-a8002471.html%3Famp

Heaven’s sake!


Must be running Windows.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 17 2017, 08:22 AM

QUOTE (The Hatter @ Oct 16 2017, 01:45 PM) *
Let's just hope the teenagers do know the answers and aren't relying on the oldies to tell them how to do things. This morning's disaster shows what a fist their generation had made! With their sparkly new train too.

Used to say the same about Japanese cars in the 70's.
Perhaps one day they will build trains to the same quality as their bikes and cars!! laugh.gif
You would have thought so after years off running their so called wonderful "bullet" trains!
The "oldies" built the HST's, still going strong after over 40 years!
Still the 70's British built HST's aren't finished yet. Another year or so on our line. tongue.gif

Posted by: The Hatter Oct 17 2017, 07:20 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Oct 17 2017, 09:22 AM) *
Used to say the same about Japanese cars in the 70's.
Perhaps one day they will build trains to the same quality as their bikes and cars!! laugh.gif
You would have thought so after years off running their so called wonderful "bullet" trains!
The "oldies" built the HST's, still going strong after over 40 years!
Still the 70's British built HST's aren't finished yet. Another year or so on our line. tongue.gif


It's today's oldies that are the problem their dads were OK.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 21 2017, 05:56 AM

QUOTE (The Hatter @ Oct 17 2017, 08:20 PM) *
It's today's oldies that are the problem their dads were OK.

In what way are today's "oldies" "the problem"?
(Could you also define what group "today's oldies" fall into?)

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 13 2017, 07:53 PM

Do they ever put water in the boiler so we can wash our hands, or is that reserved for the posh lot?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 13 2017, 08:44 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 13 2017, 07:53 PM) *
Do they ever put water in the boiler so we can wash our hands, or is that reserved for the posh lot?

The service is fine at the front (or occasionally the back when in reverse formation). Not sure what you peasants go through in cattle class.

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 13 2017, 09:01 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 13 2017, 09:53 PM) *
Do they ever put water in the boiler so we can wash our hands, or is that reserved for the posh lot?

Seems the run down of the HST's is in swing with some power cars already gone to Scotland and many coaches being sent likewise or into store.
Many sets now running with only 7 carriages.
Bit premature?
Old Oak Common (London) and Landore (Swansea) HST depots close early next year.
Hot water probably not on their priority list.
(Cold water shower on the Hitachi IET's free though!)

Posted by: The Hatter Nov 13 2017, 09:11 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 13 2017, 08:44 PM) *
The service is fine at the front (or occasionally the back when in reverse formation). Not sure what you peasants go through in cattle class.


GF's best mate works on the Penzance services, they often have a hot water problem and get lots of complaints from standard class. Few from first who she says are 'too posh to wash'.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 14 2017, 08:06 AM

Any water would handy, but this is the Paddington to Plymouth train from Reading, so some will have to improvise!

Posted by: On the edge Nov 14 2017, 08:06 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Nov 13 2017, 09:01 PM) *
Seems the run down of the HST's is in swing with some power cars already gone to Scotland and many coaches being sent likewise or into store.
Many sets now running with only 7 carriages.
Bit premature?
Old Oak Common (London) and Landore (Swansea) HST depots close early next year.
Hot water probably not on their priority list.
(Cold water shower on the Hitachi IET's free though!)


Yep! What a complete and utter shambles rail privatisation has been. Almost feel sorry for GWR; stuffed, whichever way they turn.

Posted by: Mr Brown Nov 25 2017, 10:06 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 14 2017, 08:06 AM) *
Yep! What a complete and utter shambles rail privatisation has been. Almost feel sorry for GWR; stuffed, whichever way they turn.


They probably have the staff they deserve.

Last Thursday, tried to get to South West from Newbury. Auto ticket machines all out of service, so missed first choice train as had to join long ticket office queue. 9.22 to Paddington delayed by 16 minutes so was told the 'slow one' to Reading would leave on time at 9.33....so it did, only to arrive well late because it waited at the Racecourse to let late fast train over take. So, connection at Reading missed. A busy Swansea train arrived eventually at Reading at a suddenly announced platform, by a chap clearly chewing something. This train stopped at Didcot where we all had to get out to go back to Reading because of a fatality on the line. The train taking us back was an already crowded three car train which ended up looking like a Nirthern line rush hour tube train. At Reading, all we were told was things were being sorted but it would take a long time.

I just gave up!

Has anyone ever dared try get a refund? You almost have to beg! Then it takes a month and they deduct a service charge; not exactly customer service.

According to colleagues, this state of affairs isn't unusual by any means. What with advancing driverless vehicle technology and the like, it's beginning to look as if the much vaunted huge investment in railways over past two decades was a massive waste of money.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 25 2017, 10:45 AM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 25 2017, 10:06 AM) *
They probably have the staff they deserve.

Last Thursday, tried to get to South West from Newbury. Auto ticket machines all out of service, so missed first choice train as had to join long ticket office queue. 9.22 to Paddington delayed by 16 minutes so was told the 'slow one' to Reading would leave on time at 9.33....so it did, only to arrive well late because it waited at the Racecourse to let late fast train over take. So, connection at Reading missed. A busy Swansea train arrived eventually at Reading at a suddenly announced platform, by a chap clearly chewing something. This train stopped at Didcot where we all had to get out to go back to Reading because of a fatality on the line. The train taking us back was an already crowded three car train which ended up looking like a Nirthern line rush hour tube train. At Reading, all we were told was things were being sorted but it would take a long time.

I just gave up!

Has anyone ever dared try get a refund? You almost have to beg! Then it takes a month and they deduct a service charge; not exactly customer service.

According to colleagues, this state of affairs isn't unusual by any means. What with advancing driverless vehicle technology and the like, it's beginning to look as if the much vaunted huge investment in railways over past two decades was a massive waste of money.

" But otherwise you are satisfied with the standard of service you get from your rail network provider " I have placed it in quotation marks as this is the eventual glib response the hapless complaining customer receives from these arrogant conglomerates .
Thought about a pony and trap ? rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 25 2017, 12:09 PM

You tend to find companies with a monopoly don’t have to try too hard. My pet peeve at the moment is that pathetically sized display at the south entrance to Reading station that takes three refreshes (each page requires two views to see the information) to get back to the page you just missed!

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 25 2017, 07:31 PM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 25 2017, 12:06 PM) *
They probably have the staff they deserve.

Last Thursday, tried to get to South West from Newbury. Auto ticket machines all out of service, so missed first choice train as had to join long ticket office queue. 9.22 to Paddington delayed by 16 minutes so was told the 'slow one' to Reading would leave on time at 9.33....so it did, only to arrive well late because it waited at the Racecourse to let late fast train over take. So, connection at Reading missed. A busy Swansea train arrived eventually at Reading at a suddenly announced platform, by a chap clearly chewing something. This train stopped at Didcot where we all had to get out to go back to Reading because of a fatality on the line. The train taking us back was an already crowded three car train which ended up looking like a Nirthern line rush hour tube train. At Reading, all we were told was things were being sorted but it would take a long time.

I just gave up!

Has anyone ever dared try get a refund? You almost have to beg! Then it takes a month and they deduct a service charge; not exactly customer service.

According to colleagues, this state of affairs isn't unusual by any means. What with advancing driverless vehicle technology and the like, it's beginning to look as if the much vaunted huge investment in railways over past two decades was a massive waste of money.

If you have to cancel your journey due to unforeseen circumstances on the railway then you are entitled to a full refund with no admin charge.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/Conditions%20of%20Travel%202016.pdf paragraph 30.1.
PS Just wondering why you caught a Swansea train when trying to get to the South West?

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 25 2017, 07:52 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 25 2017, 12:09 PM) *
You tend to find companies with a monopoly don’t have to try too hard. My pet peeve at the moment is that pathetically sized display at the south entrance to Reading station that takes three refreshes (each page requires two views to see the information) to get back to the page you just missed!

Don't worry! when Comrades Corbyn and macdonnel take it back into state ownership all these problems will waft away into thin air, we'll get lovely big steam trains back, hammer and sickle on the front, a choice of beetroot OR potato in the dining cars, glorious, can't wait. tongue.gif

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 25 2017, 07:58 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 25 2017, 08:52 PM) *
Don't worry! when Comrades Corbyn and macdonnel take it back into state ownership all these problems will waft away into thin air, we'll get lovely big steam trains back, hammer and sickle on the front, a choice of beetroot OR potato in the dining cars, glorious, can't wait. tongue.gif

Well at least the miners will get their jobs back! laugh.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 25 2017, 08:22 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Nov 25 2017, 07:58 PM) *
Well at least the miners will get their jobs back! laugh.gif

Come the glorious revolution, we WILL take back the means of production!! Then **** it up, like we did the last time!

Posted by: On the edge Nov 25 2017, 08:43 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 25 2017, 08:22 PM) *
Come the glorious revolution, we WILL take back the means of production!! Then **** it up, like we did the last time!


Err. Who fouled up in the 70s? Seem to remember it was the private firms like Ford, British Leyland, BSA etc, all with such inept managements that they couldn't even manage their workforces! Bit like today, where private Southern Railway simply caved in with a totally unjustified increase for drivers.

It's a brilliant Tory wheeze we all fall for. They strip the farm of everything they possibly can and when there is nothing left, let Labour back in for a few years to try and put things to right and then they start using the tired out old myths all over again.

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 25 2017, 08:53 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 25 2017, 08:43 PM) *
Err. Who fouled up in the 70s? Seem to remember it was the private firms like Ford, British Leyland, BSA etc, all with such inept managements that they couldn't even manage their workforces! Bit like today, where private Southern Railway simply caved in with a totally unjustified increase for drivers.

It's a brilliant Tory wheeze we all fall for. They strip the farm of everything they possibly can and when there is nothing left, let Labour back in for a few years to try and put things to right and then they start using the tired out old myths all over again.

YaY, line em up against the wall! really works, well actually no. go on, privatize the railways, haven't had a good laff for ages.

Posted by: Mr Brown Nov 25 2017, 08:55 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Nov 25 2017, 07:31 PM) *
If you have to cancel your journey due to unforeseen circumstances on the railway then you are entitled to a full refund with no admin charge.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/Conditions%20of%20Travel%202016.pdf paragraph 30.1.
PS Just wondering why you caught a Swansea train when trying to get to the South West?


Should have said South Wales.

With a bit of luck, they won't levy an admin. charge. My issue is, I simply don't know yet. Anyway, having to have a firm's customer refund policy enshrined in legislation somehow underlines the railway companies total misunderstanding of the words customer and service!

Posted by: On the edge Nov 25 2017, 09:01 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 25 2017, 08:53 PM) *
YaY, line em up against the wall! really works, well actually no. go on, privatize the railways, haven't had a good laff for ages.


No, old son, that's what you lot do. We want them back in public ownership, just like your Winston wanted!!!

Presumably, you are having a good laff at the antics of GWR at the moment? They are quite a joke I agree! laugh.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 25 2017, 09:51 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 25 2017, 08:43 PM) *
Err. Who fouled up in the 70s? Seem to remember it was the private firms like Ford, British Leyland, BSA etc, all with such inept managements that they couldn't even manage their workforces! Bit like today, where private Southern Railway simply caved in with a totally unjustified increase for drivers.

It's a brilliant Tory wheeze we all fall for. They strip the farm of everything they possibly can and when there is nothing left, let Labour back in for a few years to try and put things to right and then they start using the tired out old myths all over again.


Corbyn + Macdonell =

Venezuela!!!

Anyone with any idea at all knows this would be the final nail.
All capital will leave. Inflation will be rampant and unemployment will sky rocket.

Ohhhhh Jeremy Corbyn....

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 26 2017, 08:25 AM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 25 2017, 09:55 PM) *
Anyway, having to have a firm's customer refund policy enshrined in legislation somehow underlines the railway companies total misunderstanding of the words customer and service!

The refund policy, along with most other regulations, are defined ion the National Rail Conditions of Carriage which is determined by the DFT.
The rail companies have to abide by these rules as part of the franchise conditions and have no say in any deviation from them.

Posted by: Jay Sands Nov 26 2017, 10:54 AM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 25 2017, 10:06 AM) *
They probably have the staff they deserve.

Last Thursday, tried to get to South West from Newbury. Auto ticket machines all out of service, so missed first choice train as had to join long ticket office queue. 9.22 to Paddington delayed by 16 minutes so was told the 'slow one' to Reading would leave on time at 9.33....so it did, only to arrive well late because it waited at the Racecourse to let late fast train over take. So, connection at Reading missed. A busy Swansea train arrived eventually at Reading at a suddenly announced platform, by a chap clearly chewing something. This train stopped at Didcot where we all had to get out to go back to Reading because of a fatality on the line. The train taking us back was an already crowded three car train which ended up looking like a Nirthern line rush hour tube train. At Reading, all we were told was things were being sorted but it would take a long time.

I just gave up!

Has anyone ever dared try get a refund? You almost have to beg! Then it takes a month and they deduct a service charge; not exactly customer service.

According to colleagues, this state of affairs isn't unusual by any means. What with advancing driverless vehicle technology and the like, it's beginning to look as if the much vaunted huge investment in railways over past two decades was a massive waste of money.


Whenever we've had this problem, like yesterday for example, when the automatic ticket machine at Newbury wasn't working and the queue trailed outside the doors, and then the Reading connection was standing room only all the way to Paddington (GWR seem to have the knack of not anticipating the number of passengers who travel at the weekend even when they know that the rugby or Ascot is on) we've always written direct to the CEO, Mark Hopwood, Great Western Railway, Milford House, 1 Milford Street, Swindon, SN1 1HL - don't waste your time with their customer service department - and have received a refund.


Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 26 2017, 12:29 PM

Does anyone know the sums on how much it slows a train down by the addition of an extra carriage ? This has always been the stock excuse when ever one enquires but I have never discovered by how much per additional carriage .

Posted by: Mr Brown Nov 26 2017, 04:41 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Nov 26 2017, 08:25 AM) *
The refund policy, along with most other regulations, are defined ion the National Rail Conditions of Carriage which is determined by the DFT.
The rail companies have to abide by these rules as part of the franchise conditions and have no say in any deviation from them.


I'm not at all convinced about that; absolute minimum terms possibly. I'd certainly agree that the monopoly situation they are in means they would want to apply the bare minimum they can get away with.

Posted by: Mr Brown Nov 26 2017, 04:47 PM

QUOTE (Jay Sands @ Nov 26 2017, 10:54 AM) *
Whenever we've had this problem, like yesterday for example, when the automatic ticket machine at Newbury wasn't working and the queue trailed outside the doors, and then the Reading connection was standing room only all the way to Paddington (GWR seem to have the knack of not anticipating the number of passengers who travel at the weekend even when they know that the rugby or Ascot is on) we've always written direct to the CEO, Mark Hopwood, Great Western Railway, Milford House, 1 Milford Street, Swindon, SN1 1HL - don't waste your time with their customer service department - and have received a refund.


That is certainly an option right now. However, it seems to me that poor customer service is institutionalised and railway managements need a complete change of attitude. So I'm thinking more on the lines of seeing if this shouldn't go higher. TBH I'm not really interested in compensation; just fair trading and a consistent and proper regard for customers.

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 26 2017, 07:09 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 26 2017, 01:29 PM) *
Does anyone know the sums on how much it slows a train down by the addition of an extra carriage ? This has always been the stock excuse when ever one enquires but I have never discovered by how much per additional carriage .

The days when you could "add and extra carriage" are long gone.
The railways now run fixed formation trains. Yes the HST's can be changed in size but this is not easily done as they run under the same "fixed formation" rules. Also no carriages exist to make them longer than 8 car.
The new Hitachi trains are total fixed formation and cannot be changed at all.
The main criteria that prevents longer trains is the length of platforms.
Many platforms are having to be extended to take the new Hitachi trains.
Also, in the modern railway "extra carriages" don't exist. The system is pared down to the minimum in order to "sweat the assets". Again, a factor determined by the DFT, not the TOC's.
In answer to your question though, 1 extra carriage on an HST makes little difference except when facing the steep banks in South Devon and Cornwall when it can be a problem. This is because HST's have fixed amount of power determined by the 2 power cars at each end.
Most fixed formation trains however have the power under some or all the carriages (like the turbos) so to add extra would also add extra power.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 26 2017, 07:27 PM

Thank you Biker for clarifying that . Guess the only answer to overcrowding is to accept the crush .

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 26 2017, 07:32 PM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 26 2017, 05:41 PM) *
I'm not at all convinced about that; absolute minimum terms possibly. I'd certainly agree that the monopoly situation they are in means they would want to apply the bare minimum they can get away with.

You obviously didn't read my reply thoroughly!!
"The rail companies have to abide by these rules as part of the franchise conditions and have no say in any deviation from them."
By the way, 09:23 left 12 minutes late. Not acceptable I know, but hardly the end of the world.
And yes it did overtake the 09:33 at the Racecourse. If it had been me I would have stayed with it despite being told the 09:33 would leave on time. (Which it did as you say!)

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 26 2017, 07:34 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 26 2017, 08:27 PM) *
Thank you Biker for clarifying that . Guess the only answer to overcrowding is to accept the crush .

Well the new Hitachi's have more room because 8 cars will be replaced by 9 or 10.
The class 387 electrics which will replace most of the turbos have 4 coaches as opposed to the turbo 2 or 3.
Unfortunately, with our ever increasing population with no end in sight, this may not cater for the increased usage for very long.
Who knows what the long term answer is? Everything seems to be overcrowded doesn't it? rolleyes.gif

Posted by: On the edge Nov 26 2017, 08:12 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Nov 26 2017, 07:34 PM) *
Well the new Hitachi's have more room because 8 cars will be replaced by 9 or 10.
The class 387 electrics which will replace most of the turbos have 4 coaches as opposed to the turbo 2 or 3.
Unfortunately, with our ever increasing population with no end in sight, this may not cater for the increased usage for very long.
Who knows what the long term answer is? Everything seems to be overcrowded doesn't it? rolleyes.gif


Interesting dilemma; certainly London and the South East are at, or even over capacity. The infrastructure isn't coping and austerity us making things worse. Nonetheless, large swathes beyond the Watford Gap the situation is reversed; some places are actually demolishing older but certainly serviceable homes. Similarly, there is much space in Scotland. How do we secure true mobility of labour so that population numbers are smoothed out? Market forces don't do it as we see today; then again central planning (1940s) and state intervention (1950s) didn't work either.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 27 2017, 10:42 AM

It has long been the argument that in order to get a half decent job one had to be prepared to move to another area of the UK if your present one was lacking in employment opportunities , ( remember "get on yer bike " quote ) , but with more and more people working from home and face to face via internet the norm the need to live "local" is no longer a requirement .
So if those who fit the above demographic upsticks and took up residence North of Watford then it would , if nothing else , ease the housing "problem". The problem is , as far as I can see , is that those who work from home have a higher paying position than those who need to commute , which brings us to the crux of the matter that we desperately need a decent train / public transport system . So instead of pushing money into the Southern hosing market we should get the transport infrastructure right .
Over simplistic answer to a complex problem .
Just been interrupted by news that some chap called Harry has got engaged to a tart called Megan . I shall be relocating to a Hebridean island for the next 12 months . cool.gif
ps Before the lefties on here get uptight about my supposed disrespectful position , a tart is a young woman , nothing else .

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 27 2017, 03:38 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 27 2017, 10:42 AM) *
It has long been the argument that in order to get a half decent job one had to be prepared to move to another area of the UK if your present one was lacking in employment opportunities , ( remember "get on yer bike " quote ) , but with more and more people working from home and face to face via internet the norm the need to live "local" is no longer a requirement .
So if those who fit the above demographic upsticks and took up residence North of Watford then it would , if nothing else , ease the housing "problem". The problem is , as far as I can see , is that those who work from home have a higher paying position than those who need to commute , which brings us to the crux of the matter that we desperately need a decent train / public transport system . So instead of pushing money into the Southern hosing market we should get the transport infrastructure right .
Over simplistic answer to a complex problem .
Just been interrupted by news that some chap called Harry has got engaged to a tart called Megan . I shall be relocating to a Hebridean island for the next 12 months . cool.gif
ps Before the lefties on here get uptight about my supposed disrespectful position , a tart is a young woman , nothing else .

A tart usually is a “woman who dresses or behaves in a way that is considered tasteless and sexually provocative.”

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 27 2017, 03:46 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 27 2017, 03:38 PM) *
A tart usually is a “woman who dresses or behaves in a way that is considered tasteless and sexually provocative.”

Fits the bill.

Posted by: On the edge Nov 27 2017, 04:49 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 27 2017, 10:42 AM) *
.....which brings us to the crux of the matter that we desperately need a decent train / public transport system....


Yes, we do indeed. Sadly, I can't see that electrification will make one iota of difference to the abysmal levels of customer service, poor train operations, ineffective information technology and badly constructed new trains.

As for busses, the present operators seemingly can't deliver such simple things as enunciators at bus stops, electronic ticketing, reliable service frequency. So that's not going to change either!

Ah ha, we have a Railway Regulator in an expensive office who employs a fair number of highly paid individuals. He was put in place to champion the customer in the absence of real competition. That works doesn't it?



(In response to late news, in celebration of the forthcoming nuptials, couldn't we petition the Crown to make dear old Harry 'Prince if Scotland' with a nice big mansion on Shetland? The Scots would then have their own bit of monarchy to fund....and save us a fair few bob!)

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 27 2017, 04:54 PM

First one marries a commoner! then the Ginger Whinger marries an American!! I'ts just too much you know, just too much.

Posted by: On the edge Nov 27 2017, 06:41 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 27 2017, 04:54 PM) *
First one marries a commoner! then the Ginger Whinger marries an American!! I'ts just too much you know, just too much.


Don't knock it; all those yanks over here 'enthused' by the aristocracy; tour of 'Downton', bus trip to Bucklebury, onto tea at the Control Tower and still time for little old Camps and Newbury shops.

We'll be quids in!

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 27 2017, 06:47 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 27 2017, 05:49 PM) *
Yes, we do indeed. Sadly, I can't see that electrification will make one iota of difference to the abysmal levels of customer service, poor train operations, ineffective information technology and badly constructed new trains.

So complete waste of money then?
Wonder why nothing was learnt from previous electrification schemes of other main lines?
Presumably, using the same arguments, these made no difference either?

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 27 2017, 08:30 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 27 2017, 03:38 PM) *
A tart usually is a “woman who dresses or behaves in a way that is considered tasteless and sexually provocative.”


That quite simply is a case of using a noun as an adjective . When I was young it was a recognised appellation for a single female , which seems to have degenerated into a derogatory expression .
Should I change my language just because the modern generation speaks differently ?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 27 2017, 08:37 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 27 2017, 06:41 PM) *
Don't knock it; all those yanks over here 'enthused' by the aristocracy; tour of 'Downton', bus trip to Bucklebury, onto tea at the Control Tower and still time for little old Camps and Newbury shops.

We'll be quids in!


Presume it will be a Registry office job with her being married before.
Im sure the Archbishop said No.....😂

Posted by: On the edge Nov 27 2017, 09:03 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Nov 27 2017, 06:47 PM) *
So complete waste of money then?
Wonder why nothing was learnt from previous electrification schemes of other main lines?
Presumably, using the same arguments, these made no difference either?


Yes, so it seems.

And nothing much does seem to have been learned from previous electrifications. For instance, the projects implemented by the old Southern Railway before WW2 were usually on time and in budget. We also, certainly to my recollection, made a far better fist of it when 'bad' old BR ran the show.

In any event, surely we've made progress and as Mrs Thatcher promised, privatisation gas delivered far better management and far better service from privatised industry!

And now, with Brexit, we'll be trying to 'sell' our expertise overseas. It's all we really have to sell after all. So, imagine the reply we'll get from say a Japanese rail firm if we tendered to run a project for them?

Posted by: On the edge Nov 27 2017, 09:11 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 27 2017, 08:37 PM) *
Presume it will be a Registry office job with her being married before.
Im sure the Archbishop said No.....😂


And I thought you were entreprenurial....

This means it won't be in London, but in what is still 'The Royal County of Berkshire'. Just means we've got another stop for our tours - can fit in Windsor just before we drop them at Heathrow.

Luvly jubbly.

Posted by: On the edge Nov 27 2017, 09:12 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 27 2017, 08:30 PM) *
That quite simply is a case of using a noun as an adjective . When I was young it was a recognised appellation for a single female , which seems to have degenerated into a derogatory expression .
Should I change my language just because the modern generation speaks differently ?


Don't worry Sir William, admit it, they were so called because you fancied a nibble....

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 27 2017, 09:35 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 27 2017, 09:12 PM) *
Don't worry Sir William, admit it, they were so called because you fancied a nibble....

If they all looked like Markle wouldn't we all....

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 27 2017, 09:48 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 27 2017, 08:30 PM) *
That quite simply is a case of using a noun as an adjective . When I was young it was a recognised appellation for a single female , which seems to have degenerated into a derogatory expression .
Should I change my language just because the modern generation speaks differently ?

That depends on whether or not you want to be understood.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 27 2017, 09:48 PM

DP

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 27 2017, 11:43 PM

Bet you a tenner it won't read "And they all lived happily ever after"

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 28 2017, 08:33 AM

Sorry, what is the subject of this thread????? unsure.gif unsure.gif wacko.gif wacko.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 28 2017, 09:14 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Nov 28 2017, 08:33 AM) *
Sorry, what is the subject of this thread????? unsure.gif unsure.gif wacko.gif wacko.gif laugh.gif


What's the difference between Southern Rail and The House of Windsors latest acquisition ? Answer. They have both been screwed by persons who do not know what they are doing . Boom Boom laugh.gif

Lien ténu as our soon to be divorced partner may say .

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 28 2017, 10:48 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Nov 28 2017, 08:33 AM) *
Sorry, what is the subject of this thread????? unsure.gif unsure.gif wacko.gif wacko.gif laugh.gif

Sorry sir, just drifted away off subject. But I was just so excited by the gingers whinge impending nuptials. smile.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 28 2017, 01:37 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 28 2017, 10:48 AM) *
Sorry sir, just drifted away off subject. But I was just so excited by the gingers whinge impending nuptials. smile.gif


My problem is not with the couple per se but the sycophantic musings of the media who somehow believe that the great unwashed are actually interested .
The rail problem is far more important but history will not record 2018 as anything other than no 5/ 6 , ( at time of writing and baring fratricide which is not uncommon amongst the family " royal " ), inline to the throne taking a wife .
Oh and we can look forward to a few pregnancy notifications along the line . cool.gif

Posted by: newres Nov 28 2017, 02:21 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 28 2017, 01:37 PM) *
My problem is not with the couple per se but the sycophantic musings of the media who somehow believe that the great unwashed are actually interested .
The rail problem is far more important but history will not record 2018 as anything other than no 5/ 6 , ( at time of writing and baring fratricide which is not uncommon amongst the family " royal " ), inline to the throne taking a wife .
Oh and we can look forward to a few pregnancy notifications along the line . cool.gif

Hear, hear. It was even all over The Guardian! Who cares!?

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 28 2017, 02:55 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 28 2017, 11:48 AM) *
Sorry sir, just drifted away off subject. But I was just so excited by the gingers whinge impending nuptials. smile.gif

Yes, it's nice to see Hewitt's lad finally tying the knot!! tongue.gif

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