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Posted by: Carshot Feb 20 2013, 12:50 PM

Not a surprise but a big shame...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21517862

Posted by: motormad Feb 20 2013, 12:56 PM

Not really a big loss to the high streets. Only for the people who work there.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 20 2013, 01:28 PM

That depends on whether you want a high street.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 20 2013, 02:04 PM

HMV is one of a few reasons I would occasionally go to town.

Posted by: motormad Feb 20 2013, 02:05 PM

Which often depends on whether I can be bothered to pay for parking and whether the high street prices can be even slightly competitive with the internet.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 20 2013, 02:07 PM

Yup, that's me too.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 20 2013, 02:12 PM

But even today, if you shop on-line, you need to give at least 16 hours notice for a parcel to be delivered, unless you pay for a courier.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 20 2013, 02:13 PM

In other words you don't want one.

Thats fine, but don't complain when your choice is limited & there are no options.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 20 2013, 02:15 PM

And then pop to the post office / courier depot to collect it as you were out at the time of delivery & it needs a signature. Unless the item was sent by Hermes in which case it will be stuffed behind the bin.

Posted by: motormad Feb 20 2013, 02:22 PM

How do you get the 16 hours notice thing? Do you ever shop online?
Most of the time shipping is free on orders over £50 and below that it's a nominal fee, around £3 or £4.
Plenty of times I have ordered an item at 3-4pm and it's been delivered (normally to me at work) by 10am the next morning.



I guess that's true. Regarding electronic items, games, DVDs, etc, I can just find things online. There's lots of choice and often different sellers. A Season of 24 for example in HMV was like £75 for all of the seasons (there are 8 of them) or like £15 each. On the internet you can buy the same box set, new, for half the price. There's no need for an overhead of "the personal touch" when buying DVDs or Games.

The only thing that needs a "hands on" approach is things like clothes as we all know trying on clothes is not only one of the most horrible things to do (but also the most necessary).

Posted by: theone09 Feb 20 2013, 02:29 PM

According to Newbury.net, Morrisons are in the running for the Newbury store.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 20 2013, 02:32 PM

I think that depends. Shops have lost the personal touch. The days of personal recomendations needs to be revitalised. ( watch 'High Fidelity' to see how a record shop should be run - Don't tell anyone you don't own "Blonde on Blonde". It's gonna be okay ) The biggest problem with buying online is the inability to browse. The internet is fine if you know what you want, but there is no serendipity with online shopping.

Posted by: GMR Feb 20 2013, 03:47 PM

I am actually surprised because I was in there a couple of days ago and I asked their manager about their situation (whether they were going to close or not) and they said "we are one of the safe ones". Either he was hoping/ wishful thinking or he was told it was going to stay open but then plans were changed. But it is a shame. I used to like going in their and looking at the new DVD's & CDs etc and then going home and ordering them on Amazon. If I didn't get them on Amazon then I bought them from Sainsbury's as they were cheaper. But they were a great browsing shop.We need more shops in our towns so that we can look at the good, ask questions and then go home and order them on line. What is the world coming to?

Posted by: GMR Feb 20 2013, 03:47 PM

Me the same; as I said in my previous post.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 20 2013, 05:25 PM

Can't trust anyone to tell the truth these days.

Posted by: GMR Feb 20 2013, 05:28 PM

Maybe he was telling the truth. He might have been telling me what he knew at the time. The link that was given with the names of shops was dated today (20th) well after when I was told.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 20 2013, 05:31 PM

No matter if he was - just goes to show that you can't always rely on what you are told.

Posted by: GMR Feb 20 2013, 05:32 PM

Well, that is true enough.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 20 2013, 06:07 PM

You may well have stumbled across one of the new retail models which if worked up might, just might still keep the 'High Street' viable. In music terms at least HMVs basic retail operation hasn't changed much since the 1920's when it started. It could be done, anyone got some spare cash so we could try?

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 20 2013, 06:19 PM

Do have to be so rude to make a point?


3pm to 10am the next day is 19 hours.


Or when you need something the same day, or the same hour even.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 20 2013, 06:26 PM

It will work only if the rent in Newbury highstreet is the same price as that which Amazon pay, wherever their warehouse is.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 20 2013, 08:18 PM

Not necessarily so; that's why it all hinges on the actual retail model.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 20 2013, 10:19 PM

If rent were peppercorn, I doubt HMV would be moving.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 20 2013, 10:34 PM

Impossible when selling a homogeneous product where cost & overhead are unequal.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 21 2013, 08:02 AM

It depends on exactly what you are selling. At the moment, in this case, its the traditional model where you go into the shop, pick up a physical product and pay at the counter. It doe a isn't need to be like that, you could be a paying club member going into the premises for an experience which could be recalled by the ability to download elsewhere. May seem far fetched, but then think of how much a glass of coke costs in a pub? If the customers will accept that, why pay to be members of drinking club? As I said, not wholly worked through but if we really want to save 'High Streets' there will need to be some radical and innovative thinking.

Posted by: Dodgys smarter brother. Feb 21 2013, 09:15 AM

Well just to prove they're not in the pockets of big business, who do you think our Government have turned to for advice and guidance?

http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/companies/supermarkets/tesco/introducing-the-new-saviour-of-the-high-street-its-tesco/236665.article

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 21 2013, 12:05 PM

I still think the three main factors in the demise of the high street which allows the internet to undercut are rent, rates and car parking. Two of which are under the control of our local authority.
Only when town centres are able to complete with out of town and internet price and convenience will they survive.

Posted by: Squelchy Feb 21 2013, 12:13 PM

Staggering. At the same time as this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/9882249/Tesco-voted-worst-supermarket-by-shoppers.html

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 21 2013, 12:16 PM

A 'Which?' survey & reported by the Telegraph........hmmmmm

Posted by: JeffG Feb 21 2013, 12:33 PM

Do you have an issue with Which?

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 21 2013, 12:38 PM

The readership are a certain demographic. And, as such are not representitive of the UK population as a whole. Unless of course the UK population are by & large telling lies. Hard to tell with surveys. People may aspire to shop in Waitrose, but actually, reluctantly, shop in Tesco, but be unwilling to admit it. After all, someone must be shopping there - they are the UK number 1 in terms of sales.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 21 2013, 01:12 PM

...ans I thought it was just me! Spot on.

Posted by: Squelchy Feb 21 2013, 01:19 PM

Does this mean they can't have a view on the subject? As you say, they may 'reluctantly' have to shop there. Doesn't mean they can't still be depressed at the service, quaility, etc?

Tesco's customers can't have a voice? Interesting take.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 21 2013, 01:22 PM

Of course they can, but it would make far more impact with the voted with they wallets.

But I have a feeling those who Which? surveyed are not aspirational Waitrose shoppers at all. They are Waitrose shoppers period.

Posted by: JeffG Feb 21 2013, 01:24 PM

But did you notice that although in the readers' vote, Waitrose were number 1 for customer satisfaction, Aldi and Lidl were 2 and 3 respectively?

I don't subscribe to Which? as most of the time it would not be relevant to me. However, when buying a big-ticket item or white goods for example, their (independent) test reports are useful for deciding which is the best buy. However, these days, I would do my research on the internet for other people's experiences if buying a "capital" item.

Posted by: Squelchy Feb 21 2013, 02:08 PM

So not "Waitrose shoppers period" then? Good spot JeffG.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 21 2013, 02:16 PM

Nah, given a list, you average Margo Leadbetter isn't going to even contemplate saying 'Budgens' or 'Tesco' as her two & three but won't mind so much mentioning those quirky continental supermarkets where you can get inrexpensive cooked meats, as there is no bad press about either.

It isn't by chance both Aldi & Lidl are located close to Waitrose in Newbury, and that the weekly 'specials' feature such things as microscopes, weather stations & the like.

Posted by: JeffG Feb 21 2013, 04:01 PM

Gosh, that chip must be an awful burden.

Posted by: GMR Feb 21 2013, 04:54 PM

Yes, maybe I should have patented it?

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 21 2013, 06:09 PM

I don't have a chip. You can't just take everything at face value.

A bit like a survey of Daily Mail readers.

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 21 2013, 06:19 PM

Salt 'n vinegar with that?

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 21 2013, 06:21 PM

More of a tomato ketchup man myself.

Posted by: Spider Feb 25 2013, 05:22 PM

This is sad news. Another shop closing. This is to do with Tory policies. At high level and local level. What the Lib Dems are doing at local level is trying to stop more parking charges that will drive away customers and could cause businesses to topple. Such as HMV. A sad day for all.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 25 2013, 05:25 PM

Sorry, I know you are on a roll & all, but could you care to explain how the faliure of a business to adopt new technology & adapt, coupled with a fundamental schism in the way people buy & listen to music is the result of any political party's politics & how the policies of another could have saved HMV?

Posted by: Spider Feb 25 2013, 05:36 PM

You seem to miss the point. In times of austerity governments and the people need to pull together to stop this decline. Luckily for us we are at the beginning of a new dawn. I know it will take time but the debt we inherited means a long long road.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 25 2013, 05:39 PM

So you are refering to all traditional retailers & not just HMV. Wouldn't a govt helping traditional high street retailers & not online retailers be a bit unfair?

It isn't a New Dawn ( isn't that Theosophy ) but the effect of showrooming & folk prefering to save a few £££ & purchase online.

Posted by: Spider Feb 25 2013, 05:49 PM

The balance between online and high street is tipping in favour of online retailers. We need to address the balance.

I understand people want to save money and that is why the shop on line. But that doesn't mean governments can't tip the balance in favour of street retailers. Like fairer taxes, cheaper rents etc. We just can't sit by and watch the destruction of our high street and do nothing.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 25 2013, 05:52 PM

Do nothing? It is us that is wrecking it. If we can to do something to stop the demise / change on the high street we can shop there.

A govt can't step in & tell a landlord to cut his rent, or give any kind of subsiby to offset the rent.

The survival of the high street is in the hands of the people.

Posted by: Spider Feb 25 2013, 05:57 PM

People and government all working together. But changing structures, tax laws and giving subsidiaries will help. The people alone are just part of the equation.

Posted by: newres Feb 25 2013, 06:10 PM

So why will the High Street fail, but not Retail Parks? High Streets have a nicer environment (if you like crazy paving), no traffic, lots of pubs and restaurants, buses passing nearby and so on. What have retail parks got that the high street hasn't?

Posted by: blackdog Feb 25 2013, 06:19 PM

Why? The shift to online retail is democracy in action - the people voting with their wallets.


Online shopping is only one aspect of high street decline, out of town shops, supermarkets that sell everything - people simply don't want to trudge around shop after shop the way we used to.

Rents will fall if the high street is in trouble - a simple result of supply and demand. Taxation could certainly be fairer - but I'm not sure how it is less fair on high street retailers than other retailers.

Posted by: Spider Feb 25 2013, 06:26 PM

I agree that society is changing but that doesn't mean we have to stand by while the high streets fall apart. We need both. At least for the meantime.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 25 2013, 06:30 PM

More square footage at a lower rental per ft².

Posted by: newres Feb 25 2013, 08:08 PM

Yeah, everytime I visit the Retail Park I say, we have to shop 'ere love as it is cheaper for the retailer per square foot.

You definitely have a big future in local government.

Posted by: John C Feb 25 2013, 08:38 PM

Free Parking

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 25 2013, 08:39 PM

I didn't realise we werre trying to find out what made you go there. I can't be the range of shops......

You asked "So why will the High Street fail, but not Retail Parks?". As open stores in either location still have to pay staff, lighting, for stock etc etc, I'd have though the biggest single differential factor is the cost of the unit.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 25 2013, 09:20 PM

I think its already been mentioned, but HMVs demise was actually down to HMV - its business model was wholly out of date. Harsh realities I'm afraid. Trying to protect by throwing money at the problem is simply holding on to old inefficient practices. Lets see some real innovation for once.

The High Street has only been a string of retail outlets in fairly recent times. Previously far more domestic accommodation, plus hotels and the like. It will change, probably for the better.

Key issues should be how we create and sustain employment opportunities which go when old trades decline.

Posted by: Gazzadp Feb 27 2013, 10:04 PM

Well after going into HMV today, I reckon the Newbury branch has got about a week left or 10 days max. As most of the shelves are now half empty if not EMPTY! The last of the headphones were all being moved from one end to the other, which just made it look emptier than it is!

Whilst I feel sorry for the staff, HMV constantly kept shooting themselves in the proverbial foot!

As no two ways about it, what really made them come unstuck was their ill thought out move into selling more technology goods, it was those suppliers who quite rightly and understandably said enough, was enough and refuse to supply more stock.

They should have tried a bit harder doing waht they did originally, selling music, films and games. But then sell them at realistic prices that people would have been willing to pay, the mark up is still there and they could have competed with the Internet. But they chose not!

After all the sad fact is HMV like Virgin and Tower Records before them, always thought they were a cut above other recod shops, I am just surprised that neither of them tried charging for admission to their stores...

Posted by: Strafin Feb 27 2013, 10:46 PM

Shops always seem to fill themselves full of rubbish different to their usual ranges just before they go under. Borders did it, HMV did it, and now keep an eye on Waterstones.

Posted by: The Optimist Feb 27 2013, 11:53 PM

Agreed, the cost has a direct impact. In the case of out of town shopping, a lower cost of rental allows shops to be much larger, thus providing the consumer more choice and a more attractive shopping experience. It's far from universal of course, but being able to choose from 20 widgets instead of 10 widgets will add foot (or in reality, car) traffic.

There's also a convenience factor of being able to park right outside the shop(s) of interest with much of the parking in town being a walk away (and in this age of convenience overcoming almost everything else regardless of quality), this can't be overlooked.

As to why larger shops fail, I tend to agree with much of what has been said so far in getting away from a core business model. There is a tendency to try and copy Tesco who have diversified successfully but this is mostly because they have had space to work with. If they'd stayed in town, I can't imagine they'd be anything close to the one-stop shop they currently are. Even Sainsbury's, with a shorter move, have increased their revenues by relocating to a much larger premises, not afforded by space on the High Stereet

Posted by: On the edge Feb 28 2013, 11:12 AM

Interesting comment about sticking to core business. Depends on what the owners think the 'core' business actually is. If HMV had done just that, they would be selling players and the like. Businesses need to develop their markets and innovate to survive. That does mean failure from time to time; that's simply reality.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 28 2013, 01:33 PM

How on earth can a chain paying high street rents ( I'd guess that unit on Northbrook St is a minimum of £500K pa ) compete with online retailers?

Posted by: newres Feb 28 2013, 01:55 PM

Quite. What he means by "realistic prices" is at a loss.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 28 2013, 02:14 PM

So you aren't a wizard retailer then? The answer to that is no of course, otherwise you'd be doing it.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 28 2013, 02:20 PM

How do you know I'm not?


Certain items, such as music are a total and utter dead loss on the high street due to online competition, piracy & the changing way in which music is listened too.

Books won't be far behind, although the industry has been far, far more careful with the technology.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 28 2013, 04:30 PM

Simply because you haven't extended your vision beyond the 'walk in pick up goods pay at till' model. There several others, just need some vision, expanded thinking and...some money. Therein lies another story, most firms are so heavily geared and Banks presently so reluctant to risk, nothing is moving. Just as an example, restaurants and pubs manage to sell glasses of fizz for pounds that costs pence to buy in supermarkets,

I agree that I really don't know if you are a whizz retailer; perhaps keeping your powder dry. Certainly hope you are, because it will keep our town centre vibrant.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 28 2013, 04:37 PM

I agree that by adding value a retailer could stay in business in spite of ( and because of ) other factors, but selling music isn't one of them.

There is no margin when a physical CD has to be made, packaged, transported, wharehoused, transported again, shelved & stocked but a iPhone download requires none of that ( yet costs almost the same.... )

Music companies need HMV to stay in business, selling hard goods, to justify a download price of £8.99 against a CD price of £10.99. With out the CD, it is just a data transfer & they are free.....

Posted by: On the edge Feb 28 2013, 04:40 PM

Suspect we are in violent agreement! Rather like a division of Parker Pens found out some years back, they were in the quality gifts business, not office stationery.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 28 2013, 04:54 PM

Diversify that is the key....I can see a plethora of coffee / gift shops looming.....

the other big, big problem looming for the High Street is the chnge in the physical nature of the shops. More & more units are having the upper floors & storage converted to self contained accommodation, fine if you are part of a large chain, supplied overnight from a central wharehouse, but not so good for the live above indie.

As the small & not so small retailer is squeezed out of existence, there won't even be any place of a renaissance of the high street driven by the one man band family retailer.....

Posted by: Gazzadp Mar 15 2013, 09:03 PM

Apparently the last day of trading for the Newbury branch is a week today (Friday 22nd)!

I notice they are now trying to sell of the fixtures & fittings, but as with anything at HMV even that is still overpriced!

Posted by: newres Mar 16 2013, 06:20 AM

I saw your post on Facebook. Your ebay/cheapskate attitude in which you expect people to sell things to you at a loss is the reason that businesses like HMV can't survive. Enjoy sifting through the bins after they close.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 16 2013, 07:47 AM

That's a harsh slant to put on it. Supply and Demand says that businesses like HMV are failing because they can't sell stuff profitably at the market price, and the market price is set by the market because there are retailers who can supply at that price and still make a profit. If supply collapses then the price has to rise, but while there is sufficient supply in the market for the current demand then the market price is fair, and if particular retailers go extinct that's no bad thing.

Posted by: Darren Mar 16 2013, 09:21 AM

They were simply too expensive.

Season 1 DVD of Downton Abbey on release.

HMV Northbrook St - £39.99
Amazon.co.uk - £19.99

In the time of a recession, no prizes for guessing the winner.

Posted by: user23 Mar 16 2013, 09:42 AM

HMV didn't adapt to the changing market and suffered as a result.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 16 2013, 10:02 AM

Even if they had adapted, it wouldn't have necessarily meant that our high-street store would have remained open.

Posted by: newres Mar 16 2013, 10:04 AM

He used the term "realistic prices". Clearly with their overheads the prices *were* realistic. But some people expect new releases/goods at remaindered/secondary market prices.

Posted by: On the edge Mar 16 2013, 10:22 AM

The only valid price is the one the market will bear. Tesco charge less than Waitrose, so long as Waitrose cutomers are willing to keep paying the extra, Waitrose stay in business.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 16 2013, 10:39 AM

Testify brother!

Posted by: user23 Mar 16 2013, 11:00 AM

No, but it's not all about prices. When I used to go to Record Basement in Reading the guy behind the counter was more than a clerk, he was a salesman recommending thinks you might like. The other element was a social one, talking about music with other customers.

You can do both of these on the internet, but not nearly as well.

I'm not saying if they'd adopted this model they'd have stayed in business, independent record shops are going bust too, but with their reputation and financial clout they might have found a way to make it work.

Posted by: JeffG Mar 16 2013, 11:07 AM

I don't think the recession would have anything to do with it! No-one is going to throw away £20 for nothing (unless you're the type who lights his cigars with twenty pound notes ).

Posted by: Strafin Mar 16 2013, 12:25 PM

HMV had to pay huge dividends to the shareholders, and inflated bonuses to the board. It is again the rich who are unwilling to make the sacrifice to keep the stores going, they couldn't cut the wage costs on already min wage staff!

Posted by: On the edge Mar 16 2013, 02:08 PM

Story about a golden eggs and slaughtering geese comes to mind, but again, their choice. Markets aren't about democracy!

Posted by: Gazzadp Mar 16 2013, 02:22 PM

I see you did want to quote my main comment FULLY or truthfully though, that being that I think the staff should be able to take what stock is destined "to be destroyed" (direct quote from staff). As I think they should be allowed to take it home and try and flog via eBay or what ever if they want!

As it I have always bought CD's, DVD's and games on disc and retail packaged. Yes like others I try and shop around to get the best price, be that on the high street or online. I can honestly say that I have never downloaded anything like that to date. I just prefer to have the physical goods.

The fact is though, there is NO reason why HMV should BIN or DESTROY any physical stock. As it is a known fact that only the unprofitable stores are being closed down. As the company which bought out HMV's Canadian stores has already bought the brand and the most profitable shops. So all remaining stock really should be boxed up and shipped to those stores that are definitely staying open.

Lastly lets not forget that HMV has brought all this about on itself, poor management & over priced goods when compared to even other high street outlets, they committed commercial suicide by making an unwise move in selling more hi tech goods. It was those suppliers who (rightly) refused to send HMV new stock in the lead up to last Christmas, as HMV wanted the stock now, but pay later. Even though those companies were still owed money from HMV! The banks then saw that and decided to pull the plug.

So if HMV had not moved into hi tech goods, it admittedly would still be in trouble as it has been for the last several years, but the fact is it would not be where it is now!

Posted by: Darren Mar 16 2013, 02:29 PM

Fifty's here. Twenties are too small and don't burn long enough.

Posted by: newres Mar 16 2013, 05:33 PM

What would a shop worker know?

That stock will all be boxed loose into a pallet sized box and bought by specialist wholesalers of this kind of secondary market stock who will sell it on to small sellers who will then sell it for pennies on ebay or Amazon Marketplace.

No matter what HMV did, they could never compete with Amazon or Play who were shipping from the Channel Islands VAT free. The diversification into electronics was an attempt to sell things with a margin. The only way they ould ever compete was to close their bricks and mortar stores and go online only if they continued selling CDs etc.

Posted by: motormad Mar 16 2013, 06:04 PM

HMV went down because it was more expensive than any other high street retailer, among other things. Let's not make up crap about VAT free eh?

Posted by: newres Mar 16 2013, 06:58 PM

How is it crap or made up?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/nov/09/channel-islands-vat-waiver-blocked

Posted by: JaneGibbs Mar 22 2013, 07:52 PM

Does anybody know when they are officially closing? I thought it was going close immediately.

Posted by: Spider Mar 22 2013, 08:06 PM

I believe they are waiting to the stock runs down before moving out. As they still own the premises they will decide when they shall vacate it.

Posted by: JaneGibbs Mar 22 2013, 08:14 PM

Thank you.

Posted by: Spider Mar 22 2013, 08:21 PM

Even though it is sad that shops such as HMV are closing down we have to move on. One closes and another one takes it place. Nothing ever lasts. You never know when the economy picks up they might reopen in Newbury. At least we still have them on line. And don't forget Sainsbury's and Tesco's also do CDs and DVDs.

Posted by: motormad Mar 22 2013, 09:15 PM

Cheese.

Posted by: dannyboy Mar 25 2013, 12:44 AM

Of course it wouldn't. Adaptation to the current market means sending everything from a huge wharehouse, to the dwindiling number of customers who still buy media in a physical format.

Netflix is £6.00 a month isn't it?

Posted by: dannyboy Mar 25 2013, 12:46 AM

I'd know your facts before posting in such a way as to make an **** of yourself.

Posted by: dannyboy Mar 25 2013, 12:49 AM

All retailing is based upon the understanding of stock now, pay later.

Posted by: On the edge Mar 25 2013, 07:58 PM

Can you have a word with some of my manufacturers?

Posted by: dannyboy Mar 25 2013, 08:01 PM

Do you mean you pay pro forma for your stock? Surely it is on account or sale / return?

Does not do much good mind. Look at MFI - took payment from punters for furniture & kitchens which were not ex stock on the day of purchase, yet were only invoiced by the manufacturer on delivery to the punter......and they still went bust.

Posted by: motormad Mar 25 2013, 08:13 PM

£45 for a box set of 24?
No thanks.

Posted by: On the edge Mar 25 2013, 09:05 PM

Depends on your trade and your business model. The general store I had n years ago was stocked from Cash & Carry with a fair number of van sales. All cash on the spot and the risk was mine. Selling a/c or heat installations is often bespoke and we generally buy to order. Taking credit or not depends on if we can get it or not.

Retail isn't just a matter of asking a wholesaler for a lorry load of goods, selling them to the customers and then paying the wholesaler. Would that it was!

Dead easy to fall over though. Your price will only be what the customer thinks is reasonable and then there are your overheads; which only increase by inflation. Reason why I get upset when rates and such like go up by more.