Chrimbo Tatfest Options

[Simon Kirby]

Newbury Town Council have agreed to let Victoria Park out for a Christmas market in a five-year deal, but have so far refused to say how much rent they will be charging the organisers. We had a big hoo-haa a few years ago when the then town clerk made the unauthorised decision to let the organisers off their £2,500 rent which had already been discounted from the published rate of around £3,500 without explanation, and my concern then was that this had created a binding precedent for future lettings, and I am more suspicious still now that the Council are refusing to disclose how much rent they will be charging, because £17,500 is a fair bit of revenue to forego, and as welcome as a Chrimbo Tatfest will be with its gluhwein and bratwurst I still expect it to pay its way.

[Andy Capp]

Commercial Confidentiality: expect to see this 'absorbed' in some summary accounts somewhere.

Chairman of the committee Howard Bairstow (Con, Falkland): “There will be some revenue from allowing the use of the park,” he said. “But it’s more about doing something for people to get involved in and encouraging people to come to the town.”

So my starter for ten is a £1.00.

[Simon Kirby]

Commercial Confidentiality: expect to see this 'absorbed' in some summary accounts somewhere.

Chairman of the committee Howard Bairstow (Con, Falkland): “There will be some revenue from allowing the use of the park,” he said. “But it’s more about doing something for people to get involved in and encouraging people to come to the town.”

So my starter for ten is a £1.00.

Curious, because that's the figure I had in mind. NTC would need to make a charge because without it there's no contract and they'd be powerless to enforce any conditions without one, but it does look very much as though they've given the park away again.

[spartacus]

Gluhwein and bratwurst stalls are fine in their place (normally Germany) but one of the godawful Christmas Markets I happened to walk through by accident last year up in Manchester had the same crappy market tat in place that you'd expect to be in place every week, just piled up in a pine cabin. And a vaping and electronic cigarette stall ffs.... spirit of christmas my arrse...

[Cognosco]

Gluhwein and bratwurst stalls are fine in their place (normally Germany) but one of the godawful Christmas Markets I happened to walk through by accident last year up in Manchester had the same crappy market tat in place that you'd expect to be in place every week, just piled up in a pine cabin. And a vaping and electronic cigarette stall ffs.... spirit of christmas my arrse...

They have obviously moved on from the tat that was on display by the side of st Nichs then?
A super duper shower head on display in a bowl not even a sign of a sprig of holly or any other nod to Crimbo?

[nerc]

£120.00 per day to rent a wooden Chalet.

There is no contract yet for the operator to run for 5 years that is just an option IF this years event is successful.

If you notice the operator is very cautious about confirming things when they say "could" to several things in the statement.

Personally i think the event is planned for to long a period IF it goes ahead.

[Andy Capp]

According to the NWN, the council are set to "earn £6k" from the Christmas market, plus "a returnable £4,400 deposit". The interesting thing about this item is there are no quotes attributed to this information. Quite some distance from the company that couldn't run it without free rent!

[Simon Kirby]

According to the NWN, the council are set to "earn £6k" from the Christmas market, plus "a returnable £4,400 deposit". The interesting thing about this item is there are no quotes attributed to this information. Quite some distance from the company that couldn't run it without free rent!

£6k is more than the published rental for a single market so I'm guessing that it's £6k for the five year deal, so our council has discounted the usual letting fee by £11.5k - that's quite a generous gift.

And then you have to take closer look at the claim that the council will "earn" anything at all. Take the charter market - the council pay a third-party market manager £12k annually to manage the market so you wouldn't expect there to be any additional administrative overhead for the council, yet the council still expend around £25k of their own staff time (some £250 of staff time per market day), so assuming the gluhwein shedstival likewise burdens the council administration that's an expected cost in staff time of some £37,500.

So rather than "earning" £6k, the Newbury precept-payer is going to be paying £31,500 for the privilege of a Chrimbo tatfest.

[Cognosco]

£6k is more than the published rental for a single market so I'm guessing that it's £6k for the five year deal, so our council has discounted the usual letting fee by £11.5k - that's quite a generous gift.

And then you have to take closer look at the claim that the council will "earn" anything at all. Take the charter market - the council pay a third-party market manager £12k annually to manage the market so you wouldn't expect there to be any additional administrative overhead for the council, yet the council still expend around £25k of their own staff time (some £250 of staff time per market day), so assuming the gluhwein shedstival likewise burdens the council administration that's an expected cost in staff time of some £37,500.

So rather than "earning" £6k, the Newbury precept-payer is going to be paying £31,500 for the privilege of a Chrimbo tatfest.

If I have read the blurb correctly then the idea of the chrimbo tatfest is to attract visitors to Newbury shops?
Can someone then explain why the BID is not covering the costs of the tatfest?
If I was one of the permanent retailers in Newbury then I would be demanding why I was not getting a subsidy from the council for the Chrimbo period to match the tatfest organisers?

If the Organisers are unable to operate a tatfest without being subsidised by precept payers money it should not be allowed the use of the park.

[blackdog]

Great move - first invent a non-existent subsidy and then moan about it.

The Park rental is whatever they can get someone to pay - £6k from a market or £0 and no market. Providing the Park is returned in a good state of repair that's £6k in the council coffers that wouldn't otherwise be there.

I'm no fan of Christmas markets, but others seem to like them, perhaps it will bring more shoppers to the town.

[Simon Kirby]

The Park rental is whatever they can get someone to pay - £6k from a market or £0 and no market. Providing the Park is returned in a good state of repair that's £6k in the council coffers that wouldn't otherwise be there.

I don't agree. The park is a public open space maintained at public cost by Newbury Town Council. If the council are to let the park out to a commercial concern then that can't be at a cost to the public, and if the letting is going to cost the council £37,500 in administration busy-work then the council need to cover that cost in rental receipts - and remember, £37,500 is just the service staff costs and you need to add maybe 150% overhead on top of that for the back-office administration and office costs, so something like £94k would be the break-even rental - and if you think that's expensive, then yes, it is rather, but then Newbury Town Council is a spectacularly inefficient organisation with a £350k staff bill to deliver little more than the administration of a £350k grounds maintenance contract.

[je suis Charlie]

I would have thought, if they want to attract shoppers why not have free parking the two weeks before Xmas?

[On the edge]

I think we have all quite forgotten what a park is supposed to be.

Would it not be far better just to roof an area over as an all weather area to hold the play equipment and as an all weather exhibition area for fairs etc? The left over bit could then be used to properly widen the road and also more homes, so relieving civic pressures.

I still haven't seen anyone using the adult exercise equipment; perhaps I go at the wrong time.

[Simon Kirby]

I still haven't seen anyone using the adult exercise equipment; perhaps I go at the wrong time.

It's ceremonial exercise equipment OtE.

[blackdog]

I don't agree. The park is a public open space maintained at public cost by Newbury Town Council. If the council are to let the park out to a commercial concern then that can't be at a cost to the public, and if the letting is going to cost the council £37,500 in administration busy-work then the council need to cover that cost in rental receipts - and remember, £37,500 is just the service staff costs and you need to add maybe 150% overhead on top of that for the back-office administration and office costs, so something like £94k would be the break-even rental - and if you think that's expensive, then yes, it is rather, but then Newbury Town Council is a spectacularly inefficient organisation with a £350k staff bill to deliver little more than the administration of a £350k grounds maintenance contract.

If, if, if.

There is no way it is going to be at an administrative cost of £37,500 - you have made it up, it will not cost that at all.

[On the edge]

If, if, if.

There is no way it is going to be at an administrative cost of £37,500 - you have made it up, it will not cost that at all.

Ah but Simon K is simply playing back NTC logic and it rather sums them up; they know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

[On the edge]

It's ceremonial exercise equipment OtE.

[Andy Capp]

I have no problem with a temporary market in the park for Christmas, but I resent the insidious nature of turning the green space into an ugly spectacle of concrete canvas daubed with offensive language and other tatty plastic novelties. They certainty got their revenge for the pavilion humiliation.

[Simon Kirby]

If, if, if.

There is no way it is going to be at an administrative cost of £37,500 - you have made it up, it will not cost that at all.

The staff cost for supporting one charter market day is £250, so it's valid to assume the same cost for a day of the chrimbo market, so if you're outraged by that outrageous administration cost you really need to direct your indignation at the town council, not me.

[Andy Capp]

The staff cost for supporting one charter market day is £250, so it's valid to assume the same cost for a day of the chrimbo market, so if you're outraged by that outrageous administration cost you really need to direct your indignation at the town council, not me.

Isn't the 'support cost' being out-sourced?