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Newbury Today Forum _ Random Rants _ Halal, why should we put up with this?

Posted by: x2lls Jan 1 2012, 09:28 PM

Perhaps our MP's are finally going in the right direction.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2080805/We-wont-eat-halal-meat-say-MPs-peers-reject-demands-serve-Westminster.html#comments

Posted by: Strafin Jan 1 2012, 10:14 PM

Whilst I think good on them for refusing, I can't help but think that they are making one rule for them and one rule for everyone else.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 1 2012, 10:50 PM

Hypocrites, the lot of us. We are comfortable because someone, or something else is suffering. Halal meat is abominable, but then so is the way we treat animals.

Posted by: Cognosco Jan 1 2012, 10:56 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 1 2012, 10:50 PM) *
Hypocrites, the lot of us. We are comfortable because someone, or something else is suffering. Halal meat is abominable, but then so is the way we treat animals.


Laws were passed to ensure animals suffered the least amount of suffering before slaughter if it does not meet these requirements then it should be banned.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 1 2012, 10:58 PM

QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jan 1 2012, 10:56 PM) *
Laws were passed to ensure animals suffered the least amount of suffering before slaughter if it does not meet these requirements then it should be banned.

Agreed, but should we be killing them in the first place?

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 1 2012, 11:20 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 1 2012, 10:58 PM) *
Agreed, but should we be killing them in the first place?


Well considering we are at the top of the food chain and there are minerals and what not in meat that, if we had not been meat eaters, would not have made us into the awesome specimens we all are today...I'd say so.

Cows don't have feelings. When was the last time you went to group therapy and Dorris the Cow was there crying her little hoofs off because Billy the Bull cheated on her, or how she's not lactating properly? Only cats, dogs and wildebeast deserve compassion.

In this country we are not a halal-consumer. It doesn't meat (see what I did there) with our laws about animal safety and should not be followed. I appreciate these Muslim MPs are British, fair enough, but it's a British government building and they are able to do what they want.

I think they should offer it but it should be on a fixed basis, as in if you want the Halal meat you must agree to have it, otherwise it would be brought in and thrown out due to people not eating it.


If I were the leader, I'd just put a sign up saying "Halal meat" when in actual fact it was the same stuff I was giving everyone else.
Religion is a silly thing, it's great to believe in a higher power when you run out of logical and scientifically provable answers to lifes problems but things like how the animal you kill has to suffer more than necessary is just stupid and people shouldn't kick up a stink about it.

After all, I don't suppose British MPs in the Islamic government (if there are any) get a Full English as and when they want.

Talking of food, I need to beat my meat. It's misbehaving again.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 1 2012, 11:27 PM

QUOTE (xjay1337 @ Jan 1 2012, 11:20 PM) *
Well considering we are at the top of the food chain and there are minerals and what not in meat that, if we had not been meat eaters, would not have made us into the awesome specimens we all are today...I'd say so.

We also have the compassion and the recognition when creatures are in distress. We are also the only creatures (that I am aware of) that cook food. Perhaps we are not meant to eat 'them'?

Cows, et al, mourn.

Posted by: NWNREADER Jan 1 2012, 11:59 PM

Humans are omnivores by evolution - hence we have canine teeth as well as molars. There is other physiological support for meat in the diet being a norm. Most of what we eat can be eaten raw - including meat - but it can be a bit of a chew. Currently only celery is negative benefit; if more was eaten uncooked that would change. Cooking also cleans food and removes harmful bacteria.
Next we will be making cats and dogs vegetarian......

Religious rites for the sacrifice/slaughter of animals for consumption are only relevant to followers of that religion. It is not realistic to require every food provider to offer each religion food prepared according to religious rite. There are plenty of Halal/Kosher etc restaurants within reach of Parliament.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 2 2012, 12:12 AM

QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jan 1 2012, 11:59 PM) *
Cooking also cleans food and removes harmful bacteria.

Exactly.

QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jan 1 2012, 11:59 PM) *
Next we will be making cats and dogs vegetarian......

Both eat vegetation by nature, and their dry food is most probably not mainly meat.

Posted by: NWNREADER Jan 2 2012, 12:19 AM

Making............

Dry pet food is not exactly natural diet and can be harmful if not administered correctly.
Cats chew grass as a digestive aid, not as a food. Not sure which dogs consume vegetation. Either way, my observation was more directed towards the compulsion to not eat meat, and the range of vegetable foods that would involve...

As for the agreement re cooking, I'm confused (again!!!)....

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 2 2012, 12:30 AM

QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jan 2 2012, 12:19 AM) *
Dry pet food is not exactly natural diet and can be harmful if not administered correctly.

Well, I'd usually insist on them using the mouth! unsure.gif vets, who I am sure only have the welfare of the animal at heart tongue.gif , usually try to impress dry food on us!

QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jan 2 2012, 12:19 AM) *
Cats chew grass as a digestive aid, not as a food. Not sure which dogs consume vegetation.

Presumably you haven't owned a dog; they eat anything and everything.

QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jan 2 2012, 12:19 AM) *
As for the agreement re cooking, I'm confused (again!!!)....

We have to cook to stop it from harming us. Our incisors are not ideal meat masticators.

Posted by: Penelope Jan 2 2012, 12:39 AM

Cats are Carnivores, do your homework. Any way if we are going to kill any animal for food it should be done in the most humane manner possible. Halal meat is an abomination and should not be allowed in what is still a mainly non muslim country.

Posted by: NWNREADER Jan 2 2012, 12:42 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 2 2012, 12:30 AM) *
Well, I'd usually insist on them using the mouth! unsure.gif vets, who I am sure only have the welfare of the animal at heart tongue.gif , usually try to impress dry food on us!
They do? For cats? What do vets know?

Presumably you haven't owned a dog; they eat anything and everything. Correct..... I know some breeds chew anything and everything. They will chew slippers, but I doubt one would be given as a meal.....


We have to cook to stop it from harming us. Our incisors are not ideal meat masticators. The incisors are general purpose 'knives', cutting food onto mouth-size pieces regardless of source. The canines are the 'meat' teeth, for piercing and ripping.


Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 2 2012, 12:52 AM

Yes, vets suggest dry food over moist.

Dogs do chew anything, but they also eat anything!

I know what our teeth are for, and they are not well equipped to eat meat. We have to cook it to make it easier. Indeed, our 'hunger' for meat is a massive resource consumer.


PS: NWNREADER, please quote properly!

Posted by: NWNREADER Jan 2 2012, 12:55 AM

What has this to do with enforcement of halal?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 2 2012, 12:57 AM

QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jan 2 2012, 12:55 AM) *
What has this to do with enforcement of halal?

I thought that is obvious. People are getting pious over the treatment of animals. We are all cruel to animals to some degree.

Posted by: lordtup Jan 2 2012, 09:35 AM

Interesting eclectic of views on a subject that I have campaigned vigorously over for half a century .
Firstly domestic farm animals are reared for the sole purpose of feeding the populace . If we didn't eat meat there would be no cattle , sheep ,pigs etc to debate .
Having established the need to rear animals for the table we must then decide how this achieved in the most cost effective way . Now contrary to popular concept animals do respond to kindness and any good livestock farmer will be first to admit that the quality of his end product is directly proportional to the care and attention lavished on them in the field.
Now having invested not only time and money but also the emotion of caring into his charges ,the final act of slaughter is an inevitability , but one that is to a degree outside his remit .
Anyone who has visited a slaughter house will testify that it is not easy viewing but modern facilities are monitored and we like to think that the dispatch is done in a humane fashion . Depending on the size of beast pre stunning is either by electric shock of captive bolt into the brain then it is hoisted up by the hind legs and the throat is then cut to drain the blood .I would like to say this is done out of sight of the the remaining animals but unfortunately they do witness their friends demise and this does cause real fear.Maybe not an ideal but probably as good as it gets and as directed by UK law.
In a Halal slaughter house there is no pre stunning .Sheep are hung upside down in a line and their throats cut as they pass along the line . Cattle are place in a large metal crush that rolls the beast on to it's back so that it can the throat is exposed . The noise from frightened animals is deafening . Anyone who thinks farm animals don't feel pain or sense fear are delusional . the barbarism of such establishments make the chasing of a fox by some upper class twit on a horse on a par with a game of scrabble.
You can accuse me of racialism if you like ,but the laws of this country stipulate certain practises and to exempt a section on religious or traditional grounds is unacceptable . If certain groups can not accept this then they should live elsewhere.
When in Rome.

Posted by: Rusty Bullet Jan 2 2012, 09:52 AM

QUOTE (lordtup @ Jan 2 2012, 09:35 AM) *
If certain groups can not accept this then they should live elsewhere.


Oh look, another attack on followers of Islam.

Well, this forum has recently descended as far as muttering ..
." ...ruddy Johnny Foreigner ....coming over here drinking all our water...mutter mutter...shouldn't be allowed...mutter .....". Now we got the meat issue. I take it Kosher is out as well then?

Posted by: lordtup Jan 2 2012, 10:24 AM

QUOTE (Rusty Bullet @ Jan 2 2012, 09:52 AM) *
Oh look, another attack on followers of Islam.

Well, this forum has recently descended as far as muttering ..
." ...ruddy Johnny Foreigner ....coming over here drinking all our water...mutter mutter...shouldn't be allowed...mutter .....". Now we got the meat issue. I take it Kosher is out as well then?


YESS !!! You have a problem with that ?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 2 2012, 10:42 AM

QUOTE (Rusty Bullet @ Jan 2 2012, 09:52 AM) *
Oh look, another attack on followers of Islam.

I don't see it that way; Islam happen to endorse halal. I agree with others that our laws shouldn't be loosened to suit religious practice or culture, especially when it comes to the welfare of people and animals.

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 2 2012, 11:06 AM

The answer to the question posed in the title of this post is - We shouldn't and I'm amazed that we do.
Ban halal now in this country at least.
(Although I doubt this will happen as it will "offend"a religious minority) (too many people are "easily offended" I think!)
As many have already said - If you don't like it go elsewhere.

(And before you ask, no, I don't think we should ban motorcycling Old Harry!! tongue.gif )

Posted by: Weavers Walk Jan 2 2012, 11:25 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 2 2012, 11:06 AM) *
If you don't like it go elsewhere


As RB pointed out Kosher meat is prepared in the same way. Are you now suggesting that all Jews "go elsewhere"?

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 2 2012, 11:31 AM

QUOTE (Weavers Walk @ Jan 2 2012, 01:25 PM) *
As RB pointed out Kosher meat is prepared in the same way. Are you now suggesting that all Jews "go elsewhere"?

I think that all should accept that these methods of killing animals are unacceptable to the majority in this country and so should not expect it to happen here.
So yes, if you absolutely insist on an animal having its throat cut while conscious then go elsewhere where, for some reason, it IS acceptable.

Posted by: Weavers Walk Jan 2 2012, 11:37 AM

You're having a good morning so far. That's the Jews and the Muslims you've got rid of.

What next? Annex the Sudetenland?

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 2 2012, 11:42 AM

QUOTE (Weavers Walk @ Jan 2 2012, 01:37 PM) *
You're having a good morning so far. That's the Jews and the Muslims you've got rid of.

What next? Annex the Sudetenland?

I think you're missing the point.!! rolleyes.gif

Posted by: x2lls Jan 2 2012, 02:33 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 2 2012, 11:42 AM) *
I think you're missing the point.!! rolleyes.gif




I totally agree, we should not be making exceptions for ANY minority.
Call them what you will, but the fact is we have banned so many things of such minor importance, yet we still allow this shti to go unheeded.
OH DEAR, we upset muslims,jews etc for what amounts to fairy tales.
I make no apology of any degree. If you don't like it, either comply to the wishes of the vast majority of decent minded people or just P off.

I'm sure that if a referendum were to be held, halal would be destined for the bin as it so rightly should.

Posted by: Weavers Walk Jan 2 2012, 03:53 PM

Calm the swearing down dear. It does your argument no good.

I suspect that the "wishes of the vast majority of decent minded people" are that people can eat what they want and should be free to choose to do so.

Please take your 'Dog-Whistle' racism elsewhere. (after all that WAS the point of your post wasn't it?) You know, have a crafty pop at the Muslims. Trouble is, you forgot or didn't know about Kosher meat. Stephen Fry is Jewish. Where do you propose he p's off to then?

Posted by: Squelchy Jan 2 2012, 04:56 PM

Hear Hear.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 2 2012, 05:01 PM

So you guys support animal cruelty then? I'm X2lls - let's have a vote on it. I don't care if you're Jewish or Muslim, or christian, cruelty for cruelty's sake is wrong. Also Stephen Fry is quite obviously not a Jew, not that it matters.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 2 2012, 05:38 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 2 2012, 05:01 PM) *
So you guys support animal cruelty then? I'm X2lls - let's have a vote on it. I don't care if you're Jewish or Muslim, or christian, cruelty for cruelty's sake is wrong. Also Stephen Fry is quite obviously not a Jew, not that it matters.

I doubt anyone supports animal cruelty as much as some people think that others are attempting to do a bit of ethnic minority bashing disguised as animal welfare. I think halal and kosha meat should be outlawed, but I also feel 'our' attitudes to animal welfare is not glowing either.

Posted by: Nothing Much Jan 2 2012, 05:43 PM

Okay Stephen Fry comes from a Norfolk family. Lives near me when I am in Norfolk .The Fry family over years are long time not jewish.
Bankers maybe .Not that he has any connection,Fry and Gurney ended up as Barclays. A Quaker family.
Just a ramble. Antony Gormley lives nearby in Norfolk.Despite some odd sculptures he seems a nice bloke.
He is not Jewish either( you can tell). I fail to see why halal and Stephen Fry ended up in the same thread.

Stephen used to be a neighbour and he is a very big chap. About the size of a telephone box.
He has slimmed and I commend him for that.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 2 2012, 06:00 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 2 2012, 05:38 PM) *
I doubt anyone supports animal cruelty as much as some people think that others are attempting to do a bit of ethnic minority bashing disguised as animal welfare. I think halal and kosha meat should be outlawed, but I also feel 'our' attitudes to animal welfare is not glowing either.

I find it quite offensive that I can be against animal suffering and then you come on here and call me a racist. The two are not linked. Halal meat is to do with religion, and whilst I understand people following theirs, whichever one it is, I think it is wrong to enforce it upon other people.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 2 2012, 06:13 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 2 2012, 06:00 PM) *
I find it quite offensive that I can be against animal suffering and then you come on here and call me a racist.

I find it disappointing that you don't have good comprehension. Please show me where I accuse you of being a racist?' I was careful to be neutral with my argument and was simply rationalising the debate.

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 2 2012, 06:00 PM) *
The two are not linked. Halal meat is to do with religion, and whilst I understand people following theirs, whichever one it is, I think it is wrong to enforce it upon other people.

Where did this come from; I am not forced to eat halal meat (as far as I know).

Posted by: Strafin Jan 2 2012, 06:36 PM

I am sure you are because many places now stock it as standard, this is a result of people trying to ensure that it is supplied so as to cater for all religious dominations. ie forcing beliefs upon others.

Your quote "I doubt anyone supports animal cruelty as much as some people think that others are attempting to do a bit of ethnic minority bashing disguised as animal welfare" is basically trying to slur those with a different view in one of the most vulgar ways. I do not think it is down to me not having "good comprehension".

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 2 2012, 06:44 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 2 2012, 06:36 PM) *
Your quote "I doubt anyone supports animal cruelty as much as some people think that others are attempting to do a bit of ethnic minority bashing disguised as animal welfare" is basically trying to slur those with a different view in one of the most vulgar ways. I do not think it is down to me not having "good comprehension".

I was making an observation that is apparent. I did not accuse you of being a racist as you said I did. It is not up to you to have good comprehension, but not having any and accusing people of something they did not do will make you look stupid, as you have done here.

Posted by: blackdog Jan 2 2012, 06:54 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 2 2012, 05:01 PM) *
So you guys support animal cruelty then? I'm X2lls - let's have a vote on it. I don't care if you're Jewish or Muslim, or christian, cruelty for cruelty's sake is wrong.


Halal / Kosher slaughtering methods are not cruelty for cruelty's sake - it's for religion's sake.

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 2 2012, 05:01 PM) *
Also Stephen Fry is quite obviously not a Jew, not that it matters.

Stephen Fry's mother is Jewish - making him Jewish by definition (it's the mother who counts to Jews).

He is a member of the British Jews for Justice for Palestinians campaign.

However, he is also an outspoken critic of organised religion.

He certainly would not be forced out of the UK by a ban on Kosher meat. Nor would many other Jews, many of whom do not bother oberving the full Kosher regime.

Posted by: Penelope Jan 2 2012, 07:03 PM

I have a friend who, while of the Jewish pursuasion, certanily dosnt eat Kosher,(only when his mums not coming round). The big difference as I see it is that the Jewish have never tried to push Kosher onto the rest of the population whereby there seems to be a trend for Muslims to want to, and we are letting it go on in the name of diversity !

UK slaughterhouses are not a pretty site but are a **** site better than the Halal altrnative.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 2 2012, 07:13 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Jan 2 2012, 06:54 PM) *
Stephen Fry's mother is Jewish - making him Jewish by definition (it's the mother who counts to Jews).

Not if you denounce your religion.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 2 2012, 07:32 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Jan 2 2012, 06:54 PM) *
Stephen Fry's mother is Jewish - making him Jewish by definition


My Mother is a Baptist - does that make me one by definition? blink.gif

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2012, 07:34 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 2 2012, 07:32 PM) *
My Mother is a Baptist - does that make me one by definition? blink.gif
Wikipedia reckons he's an Atheist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Fry

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 2 2012, 07:45 PM

If I sleep in a stable it doesn't make me a horse.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 2 2012, 08:34 PM

[quote name='Weavers Walk' date='Jan 2 2012, 03:53 PM' post='52764']
Calm the swearing down dear. It does your argument no good.

Judging by the heated discussion here , it is not affected by the actual words, expletives or otherwise (note, I am not the only one who has asterisks in their submissions



I suspect that the "wishes of the vast majority of decent minded people" are that people can eat what they want and should be free to choose to do so.



As I said, a referendum would show what the majority of us feel.

Please take your 'Dog-Whistle' racism elsewhere. (after all that WAS the point of your post wasn't it?)

Umm, no.
The point of my post was exactly as it says on the tin, unnecessary cruelty in the name of fairy tales. You can't bring up Halal/Kosher WITHOUT including religion. That is why our lilly livered politicians lean over backwards to accomodate, and stuff the rest of us.

Besides, Islam is not a race, it is a religion of peace (!)



You know, have a crafty pop at the Muslims. Trouble is, you forgot or didn't know about Kosher meat. Stephen Fry is Jewish. Where do you propose he p's off to then?

Kosher, Halal, ask the goat or cow if it makes difference.
Stephen Fry? purleeze




Posted by: x2lls Jan 2 2012, 08:35 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jan 2 2012, 07:45 PM) *
If I sleep in a stable it doesn't make me a horse.




No, it wouldn't, but you may be a little horse if you breath in straw dust!!

wink.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 2 2012, 09:31 PM

Although I feel somewhat hypocritical, I would like not to eat halal meat. How can I confirm if meat is halal?

Posted by: Strafin Jan 2 2012, 10:01 PM

You should be able to just ask if you are getting it in a restaurant, otherwise I think it is on the packaging.

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 2 2012, 10:42 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jan 2 2012, 08:35 PM) *
No, it wouldn't, but you may be a little horse if you breath in straw dust!!

wink.gif


Okay okay, rein it in.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 2 2012, 11:51 PM

neigh, I refuse !

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 2 2012, 11:54 PM

Ok, lets "make hay while the sun shines" and have a straw poll on the issue, anyway, gonna hoof it off to bed.

Posted by: blackdog Jan 3 2012, 01:13 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 2 2012, 07:13 PM) *
Not if you denounce your religion.


Jewishness is not only about religion - Fry certainly seems happy enough to be an atheist Jew when it suits him.

Posted by: blackdog Jan 3 2012, 01:22 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 2 2012, 07:32 PM) *
My Mother is a Baptist - does that make me one by definition? blink.gif

No - I have not seen parentage included in any definition of what a Baptist is.

However, Jews consider children born to Jewish mothers to be Jewish (Jewish father, gentile mother - not Jewish; Jewish mother, gentile father - Jewish).


Posted by: On the edge Jan 3 2012, 12:07 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Jan 3 2012, 01:13 AM) *
Jewishness is not only about religion - Fry certainly seems happy enough to be an atheist Jew when it suits him.


I have to say, I've always found it a little sad that we find it necessary to define people by the archaine rules of religions or past history. There was a spot of bother back in the 1930s where this happened big time. Do we really need lables?

Tony Benn summed it up quite well; My Father was a Lord so under our rules that qualifies me to be a Lord and therefore fit to rule - if he'd been an Airline Pilot, would you have been satisfied to let me take you for a trip in a plane, after all I'd be qualified....!

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 3 2012, 01:06 PM

I don't think anyone other than Mr Fry can comment on Mr Frys religion.

Posted by: IanB Jan 3 2012, 01:43 PM

I think this thread represents the frustration felt by a growing number of people about the constrictive oppression of Britain by political correctness. I believe that this can only simmer for so long before it really boils over.

For the record, I believe that we are now far too accomodating as a country in some respects. We are in grave danger of losing our identity for good. I wonder how accomodating other countries would be to our 'needs' should the roles be reversed? Because this is my belief, I would appreciate it if you'd just roll over and accept it. ;-)

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 3 2012, 01:56 PM

Ah yes, the Great British Identity.

Where we work for international companies, drive in German cars listening to music sung by American artists, buy Salad from Latvia, where we watch British teams made up of foreign players playing football on Televisions made in China while sitting on Sofas bought from DFS made in Peru.

We have no identity. The problem isn't identity, it's PCness which I hate.

I am not PC at all.

Posted by: Bloggo Jan 3 2012, 01:59 PM

QUOTE (IanB @ Jan 3 2012, 01:43 PM) *
I think this thread represents the frustration felt by a growing number of people about the constrictive oppression of Britain by political correctness. I believe that this can only simmer for so long before it really boils over.

For the record, I believe that we are now far too accomodating as a country in some respects. We are in grave danger of losing our identity for good. I wonder how accomodating other countries would be to our 'needs' should the roles be reversed? Because this is my belief, I would appreciate it if you'd just roll over and accept it. ;-)

Ok, fine by me. wink.gif

Posted by: Bloggo Jan 3 2012, 02:04 PM

QUOTE (xjay1337 @ Jan 3 2012, 01:56 PM) *
Ah yes, the Great British Identity.

Where we work for international companies, drive in German cars listening to music sung by American artists, buy Salad from Latvia, where we watch British teams made up of foreign players playing football on Televisions made in China while sitting on Sofas bought from DFS made in Peru.

We have no identity. The problem isn't identity, it's PCness which I hate.

I am not PC at all.

When objections are made against people and upheld by authority because they demonstrate their christian belief by wearing a cross, crucifix or any other christian badge then we have already lost the PC battle.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 3 2012, 04:34 PM

Some of the justifiably concerned responses here are worried about loss of a national sense of identity / purpose. Regrettably, we've been sleepwalking into what has been termed a multi cultural society - though none of us have ever seen it in a political manifesto. We used to have a saying 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do' - not a bad touch stone. After all, in the US - billed as the land of the free, see what happens if you decide to deface the flag, or criticise the troops.

Posted by: lordtup Jan 3 2012, 05:33 PM

The thread is getting a bit bear ( sic) ish . The unequivocal truth is that nationalism does exist in all of us , multiculturalism being something dreamt up by the spin doctors in order to make us feel guilty whenever the race card is played ,the fact that we tend to become defensive when our legislate is ignored or deemed non applicable on ethnic or religious grounds only empathises our concerns for our continuing identity . To paraphrase a well worn quotation , they may well be crap laws but they are our crap laws .

Posted by: blackdog Jan 3 2012, 05:57 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 3 2012, 12:07 PM) *
I have to say, I've always found it a little sad that we find it necessary to define people by the archaine rules of religions or past history. There was a spot of bother back in the 1930s where this happened big time. Do we really need lables?


Jews define themselves - an fact that has meant the survival of the Jews as a distinct group, I cannot think of any other group that has been so successful at not assimilating into a host culture. Of course many have assimilated, but the survival of Judaism after hundreds of years immersed in Christian European cultures is an impressive feat.

Everyone uses labels all the time, for some reason we do need them. The problems come if we start thinking that those labelled X are in some way inferior to those labelled Y and that therefore it is okay to treat them differently.

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 3 2012, 07:31 PM

QUOTE (lordtup @ Jan 3 2012, 05:33 PM) *
To paraphrase a well worn quotation , they may well be crap laws but they are our crap laws .


Defo agree with that, a fair point. But unfortunately when was the last time the public were questioned or polled on an event, ruleset, anything?

I think it would be fairly easy to set up a voting system on proposed rule changes and introduction. It can be linked to the census, so you register a web account against your census name (to be done via post or at a council office, driving license, passport, whatever) , giving you the right to then participate in easy 1-click "for" or "against" votes online on and, because we are a democracy, the majority of the votes is what should then be passed (or rejected) -

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 3 2012, 07:45 PM

I don't agree. That is because this country is largely made up of ill-informed people. I'd be happier if there was some kind of competency test.

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 3 2012, 07:49 PM

I agree with you Andy in principle however the point of a democracy is that the people get to vote. Even if the people are morons.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 3 2012, 07:58 PM

QUOTE (xjay1337 @ Jan 3 2012, 07:49 PM) *
I agree with you Andy in principle however the point of a democracy is that the people get to vote. Even if the people are morons.

Why should it be assumed 'democracy' is the truth?

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 3 2012, 08:11 PM

blink.gif

Well, I thought (excuse me if I'm wrong) that a democracy was rule of the majority. So a selective majority is what you'd want? Fine by me, but on what criteria?

Posted by: NWNREADER Jan 3 2012, 08:26 PM

'Democracy' as currently propagated, has become the method by which ego-driven politicians justify what they do

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 3 2012, 08:42 PM

QUOTE (xjay1337 @ Jan 3 2012, 08:11 PM) *
blink.gif Well, I thought (excuse me if I'm wrong) that a democracy was rule of the majority. So a selective majority is what you'd want? Fine by me, but on what criteria?

No; I'm simply asking why should it be assumed any democracy is best? Why should it be assumed that equal power to everyone, is best for everyone?

Posted by: user23 Jan 3 2012, 08:52 PM

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others that have been tried.

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 3 2012, 09:01 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 3 2012, 08:42 PM) *
No; I'm simply asking why should it be assumed any democracy is best? Why should it be assumed that equal power to everyone, is best for everyone?


Hmm, I suppose. tongue.gif I mean I always found in group conflicts that normally things were resolved by doing a vote and siding with the majority. Unfortunately the minority in that case may get crapped on - And perhaps it's the minority who were right.

So huh.gif... Idk, Governments are complicated and you're never going to make everyone happy. But on policies which directly affect the people they should at least get a say? I'm not sure laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 4 2012, 09:25 AM

I think maybe the point of this thread has, as usual, drifted away from the OP's point which is, do the majority of people in this country think it acceptable to slit an animal's throat while it is still concious and, if not, should it be allowed to continue, regardless of culture or religion?

Posted by: NWNREADER Jan 4 2012, 09:36 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 4 2012, 09:25 AM) *
I think maybe the point of this thread has, as usual, drifted away from the OP's point which is, do the majority of people in this country think it acceptable to slit an animal's throat while it is still concious and, if not, should it be allowed to continue, regardless of culture or religion?


Correct, and 'no'.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 4 2012, 10:28 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 4 2012, 09:25 AM) *
I think maybe the point of this thread has, as usual, drifted away from the OP's point which is, do the majority of people in this country think it acceptable to slit an animal's throat while it is still concious and, if not, should it be allowed to continue, regardless of culture or religion?




Thank you Biker1.


Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 4 2012, 10:51 AM

When a thread goes from the original posting subject to another due to converstaion by posters it's called a "spinoff" and is part of forums. If everyone stuck solidly to the original subject threads would be very short and full of one and two word replies.

But yes animals should be stunned which (nearly) everyone has agreed on.

Posted by: JeffG Jan 4 2012, 11:42 AM

Having read some on line articles about this, some (most? all?) Muslims are perfectly happy with animals being stunned before being slaughtered. So it would seem to be a non-problem that could be resolved by legislation.

Another article (this was by some vegetarian organisation, so maybe not unbiased) said that major supermarkets when asked said they either did not supply Halal meat at all, or the animal was stunned before slaughter. http://www.viva.org.uk/campaigns/ritual_slaughter/goingforthekill3.htm

Posted by: Vodabury Jan 4 2012, 07:27 PM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jan 4 2012, 11:42 AM) *
Having read some on line articles about this, some (most? all?) Muslims are perfectly happy with animals being stunned before being slaughtered. So it would seem to be a non-problem that could be resolved by legislation.

Another article (this was by some vegetarian organisation, so maybe not unbiased) said that major supermarkets when asked said they either did not supply Halal meat at all, or the animal was stunned before slaughter. http://www.viva.org.uk/campaigns/ritual_slaughter/goingforthekill3.htm


This is generally my understanding from what I have read. Most Muslims agree that the animal should be stunned first, but some hardliners disagree - which could lead to an abhorrent and cruel situation which should be stamped out with the enforcement of legislation.

I was under the impression that Halal meat was in the shops and restaurants far more than we realise, and this does not particuarly bother me as long as the animal is slaughtered in the most humane way possible.. but perhaps it would be nice to be able to make an informed choice.

Posted by: JeffG Jan 5 2012, 11:26 AM

QUOTE (Vodabury @ Jan 4 2012, 07:27 PM) *
perhaps it would be nice to be able to make an informed choice.

Presumably, if you buy a kebab it's going to be Halal meat, so there's one easy choice to make.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 5 2012, 11:28 AM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jan 5 2012, 11:26 AM) *
Presumably, if you buy a kebab it's going to be Halal meat, so there's one easy choice to make.

Should one make a choice on a presumption? Perhaps it would be better to become better informed first?

Posted by: JeffG Jan 5 2012, 12:38 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 5 2012, 11:28 AM) *
Should one make a choice on a presumption? Perhaps it would be better to become better informed first?

Probably, yes. Since I have never bought a kebab, the point is moot in my case. My assumption was based on the fact that kebab = Turkish = Muslim. Perhaps someone would like to ask on my behalf?

Posted by: Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera Jan 10 2012, 12:23 PM

As a vegetarian I personally am uncomfortable with the slaughter of any animals whether it is done in the halal, Kosher of general manner, and I say this as someone whose family farm sheep and other livestock.

I do though benefit from the by-products of others carnivorous tendencies for I do like my leather seats in the car, and the shoes that I wear.

Posted by: Vodabury Jan 10 2012, 07:28 PM

QUOTE (Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera @ Jan 10 2012, 12:23 PM) *
As a vegetarian I personally am uncomfortable with the slaughter of any animals whether it is done in the halal, Kosher of general manner, and I say this as someone whose family farm sheep and other livestock.

I do though benefit from the by-products of others carnivorous tendencies for I do like my leather seats in the car, and the shoes that I wear.


An animal should not be slaughtered for food, but it's ok if it is done for your vanity?

You are joking?

Posted by: Nothing Much Jan 10 2012, 08:18 PM

I like both meat and veg. A favourite is a basic Cauliflower Cheese. Cheese on toast for a lunchtime snack.
I have 2 most wondrous Aubergines left over from my Christmas veg display. Probably about 500 gms each.

They need to be cooked soon. Car seats and shoes won't work for me made from dried aubergine..
So I think I will roast and freeze. Maybe a curry in the cold weather approaching. I have Veg cookbooks.

I have had problems with young friends of my children,who became vegetarians and then Vegans.
It was a bit of a revolt at the time. It was a nightmare. I had to take a magnifying glass to check on food.
They are all carnivores now. I think it was the bacon sarnie that did it for most of them.

As for the bigger topic. I feel the general rule should be simple. "All for one and one for all"

Posted by: Nothing Much Jan 10 2012, 08:23 PM

And Andy Capp's competency test as mentioned at the top of the page would take us back to
pre-suffragette times ,which would get rid of Diane Abbott as well.

Hey 2 solutions at a moments notice!

Posted by: NORTHENDER Jan 10 2012, 08:30 PM

QUOTE (Vodabury @ Jan 10 2012, 07:28 PM) *
An animal should not be slaughtered for food, but it's ok if it is done for your vanity?

You are joking?


Where does Ruwan say it is not right to slaughter for food?

Posted by: Vodabury Jan 10 2012, 09:08 PM

QUOTE (NORTHENDER @ Jan 10 2012, 08:30 PM) *
Where does Ruwan say it is not right to slaughter for food?


Er, he never said it was "not right", but he is a vegetarian and says he is uncomfortable about it..

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 10 2012, 09:14 PM

QUOTE (Vodabury @ Jan 10 2012, 09:08 PM) *
Er, he never said it was "not right", but he is a vegetarian and says he is uncomfortable about it..

Exactly, so why the 'outburst'?

Posted by: Vodabury Jan 10 2012, 09:19 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 10 2012, 09:14 PM) *
Exactly, so why the 'outburst'?



Sorry, you have lost me.

Rgds

Posted by: NORTHENDER Jan 10 2012, 09:24 PM

In my eyes being uncomfortable with something is not the same as saying it should not be done. I would be uncomfortable killing a beef cattle myself, but quite happy to let someone
else do it for me.

Posted by: Vodabury Jan 10 2012, 09:51 PM

QUOTE (Nothing Much @ Jan 10 2012, 08:18 PM) *
I think it was the bacon sarnie that did it for most of them.

Yes, my daughter can be fussy in what she eats, but the smell of grilled bacon...

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 10 2012, 10:08 PM

QUOTE (Vodabury @ Jan 10 2012, 09:19 PM) *
Sorry, you have lost me. Rgds


QUOTE (Vodabury @ Jan 10 2012, 07:28 PM) *
An animal should not be slaughtered for food, but it's ok if it is done for your vanity? You are joking?
QUOTE (Vodabury @ Jan 10 2012, 09:08 PM) *
Er, he never said it was "not right", but he is a vegetarian and says he is uncomfortable about it..


So we have to ask: why the 07:28 PM post?

Posted by: Vodabury Jan 10 2012, 10:29 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 10 2012, 10:08 PM) *
So we have to ask: why the 07:28 PM post?

Pass. You read into this something I cannot explain. Cheers.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 10 2012, 10:35 PM

QUOTE (Vodabury @ Jan 10 2012, 10:29 PM) *
Pass. You read into this something I cannot explain. Cheers.

You accused someone of something they didn't do or say.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 10 2012, 10:41 PM

QUOTE (Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera @ Jan 10 2012, 12:23 PM) *
As a vegetarian I personally am uncomfortable with the slaughter of any animals ..... I do like my leather seats in the car, and the shoes that I wear.

Snipped to emphasise the bit I think Vodabury is pointing out. I thought she made sense.

Posted by: Vodabury Jan 10 2012, 10:45 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 10 2012, 10:35 PM) *
You accused someone of something they didn't do or say.


I did? Well I apologise anyway. Good night.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 10 2012, 10:52 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 10 2012, 10:41 PM) *
Snipped to emphasise the bit I think Vodabury is pointing out. I thought she made sense.

Snipped the bits out that made it plain obvious he wasn't advocating slaughter of animals for leather goods you mean!!!! rolleyes.gif

Vodabury made sense, but they, like you it seems, didn't read it properly. He said leather was a by-product of carnivorous, meaning killed primarily for food, and the remains put to 'good use'. This in no-way implies he supports slaughter for leather goods to make him look and feel good (vanity).

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 11 2012, 11:50 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 10 2012, 10:52 PM) *
Snipped the bits out that made it plain obvious he wasn't advocating slaughter of animals for leather goods you mean!!!! rolleyes.gif

Vodabury made sense, but they, like you it seems, didn't read it properly. He said leather was a by-product of carnivorous, meaning killed primarily for food, and the remains put to 'good use'. This in no-way implies he supports slaughter for leather goods to make him look and feel good (vanity).

Yes - pretty obvious he wasn't advocating killing animals for vanity.

and equally obvious that whilst he is uncomfortable about killing animals to eat, he's happy to wear their skins.

He may as well eat cheap burgers & sausages too. Are they not made from the by products & waste of the abbatoir?

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 11 2012, 11:55 AM

QUOTE (Vodabury @ Jan 10 2012, 07:28 PM) *
An animal should not be slaughtered for food, but it's ok if it is done for your vanity?

You are joking?


Hypocrisy at it's greatest.

It's fine to kill an animal to eat it. It's how the world works. As much as I like leather seats I don't then complain about the animal being killed for food, either be for it or against it. You can't say "oh, killing them and eating them is a bit much, but skin them so my **** can get sticky in hot weather".

Hmm. rolleyes.gif

Talking of animals for lunch I'm going to have a lovely chicken roll. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 11 2012, 12:01 PM

QUOTE (xjay1337 @ Jan 11 2012, 11:55 AM) *
Hypocrisy at it's greatest.

It's fine to kill an animal to eat it. It's how the world works. As much as I like leather seats I don't then complain about the animal being killed for food, either be for it or against it. You can't say "oh, killing them and eating them is a bit much, but skin them so my **** can get sticky in hot weather".

Hmm. rolleyes.gif

Talking of animals for lunch I'm going to have a lovely chicken roll. biggrin.gif

As that is not what was said or meant by the OP, it seems you can't read either!

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 11 2012, 12:04 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 11 2012, 12:01 PM) *
As that is not what was said or meant by the OP, it seems you can't read either!



Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 11 2012, 12:14 PM

You seem to have an incomplete post dannyboy!

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 11 2012, 12:17 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 11 2012, 12:14 PM) *
You seem to have an incomplete post dannyboy!

You just can't get the staff these days.

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 11 2012, 12:25 PM

I'd love to employ staff to post on my behalf, that would be amazing.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 11 2012, 12:26 PM

QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jan 11 2012, 12:17 PM) *
You just can't get the staff these days.

laugh.gif Good reply!

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 11 2012, 06:55 PM

Hang on there's something fishy (or should I say pheasant) going on here. ph34r.gif

Posted by: x2lls Jan 11 2012, 08:16 PM

QUOTE (xjay1337 @ Jan 11 2012, 06:55 PM) *
Hang on there's something fishy (or should I say pheasant) going on here. ph34r.gif




Bin on the sherbet?
blink.gif

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 11 2012, 11:22 PM

I don't think Sherbet would support the weight of a bin. Although now that question has been answered I think everyone is keen to know the outcome.

Let's produce a scientific experiment?


Posted by: x2lls Jan 11 2012, 11:49 PM

QUOTE (xjay1337 @ Jan 11 2012, 11:22 PM) *
I don't think Sherbet would support the weight of a bin. Although now that question has been answered I think everyone is keen to know the outcome.

Let's produce a scientific experiment?



XJAY... What ARE you talking about? You sure you have the right topic? unsure.gif

Posted by: NORTHENDER Jan 12 2012, 08:59 AM

Shirley if it was frozen it could XJ ?

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 12 2012, 09:15 AM

Why would you want to freeze Shirley, what has she done to you? sad.gif

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jan 11 2012, 11:49 PM) *
XJAY... What ARE you talking about? You sure you have the right topic? unsure.gif


Not a clue really. I mean sherbet is normally a powdered substance which doesn't have the ability to support the weight of an object like a bin.

However no I had not consumed any alcoholic beverages.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 12 2012, 09:18 AM

QUOTE (xjay1337 @ Jan 12 2012, 09:15 AM) *
Why would you want to freeze Shirley, what has she done to you? sad.gif



Not a clue really. I mean sherbet is normally a powdered substance which doesn't have the ability to support the weight of an object like a bin.

However no I had not consumed any alcoholic beverages.

As has been suggested, it sounds you have been on the sherbet yourself! unsure.gif

Posted by: NORTHENDER Jan 12 2012, 09:19 AM

QUOTE (xjay1337 @ Jan 12 2012, 09:15 AM) *
Why would you want to freeze Shirley, what has she done to you? sad.gif


Nicked my sherbet dab. sad.gif

Posted by: xjay1337 Jan 12 2012, 10:17 AM

Oh, in that case, she deserves to die. How very dare she steal your Sherbet dab??!! They are irreplaceable.

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 12 2012, 09:18 AM) *
As has been suggested, it sounds you have been on the sherbet yourself! unsure.gif


Sometimes if I want to pretend I am "down with the kids" (in the least pedo way possible) I will snort sherbet and pretend it's another powdered substance. I did it once and my nose stung and I could smell lemon.

I think Bassests now state it's not suitable for nasal ingestion.

Anyway what does Sherbet have to do with Halal meat? Unless we are using the ground up remains of their bones as the Sherbet..

Posted by: Nothing Much Jan 13 2012, 04:06 PM

There is always the mystery of Arkle. Bassets suggest not inhaling.
Ill have 250 gms of horse please streetcorner man.
Then there is the controversy of changing the content of Earl Grey,
Marmite seems to taste different if you buy it in different parts of the country.
As fer Branston .... certainly not a nasal medication.

Laudunum looks fun after all the recent Victoriana.

The Halal thread seems to be at the end of the tether. I guess I have eaten it over my childhood.
But I wouldn't wish to enter a butcher's shop with a Halal sign. Or Kosher neither. Cultural I suppose.
The same as I wouldn't wish to visit a French butcher with a sign outside.

I live in an area of strange street markets where foods that are sold are posssibly not legal in the UK.
They are constantly raided. But the trade flourishes.
ce

Posted by: x2lls Feb 3 2015, 12:51 AM

This just beggars belief.

Why on earth should religion be allowed to continue such barbaric treatment?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/outcry-after-undercover-film-exposes-brutality-of-halal-industry-10019467.html

Quote:-
'The Government has said it has no intention of introducing new controls on the production of halal or kosher meat, a line that David Cameron repeated during a recent visit to Israel. Animals are meant to be stunned before they are killed, but there are exemptions for Muslim and Jewish producers.'

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 3 2015, 10:49 AM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Feb 3 2015, 12:51 AM) *
This just beggars belief.

Why on earth should religion be allowed to continue such barbaric treatment?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/outcry-after-undercover-film-exposes-brutality-of-halal-industry-10019467.html

Quote:-
'The Government has said it has no intention of introducing new controls on the production of halal or kosher meat, a line that David Cameron repeated during a recent visit to Israel. Animals are meant to be stunned before they are killed, but there are exemptions for Muslim and Jewish producers.'

It beggars belief that as a supposedly educated and kind society we allow such barbarity to exist, yes I know what happens in a "normal" slaughter house and no it's not pretty, but halal is so hideously barbaric and cruel that it has no place in modern society. It truly is medieval.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 3 2015, 01:48 PM

The meat trade is all varying degrees of barbarism. It is difficult to play at being virtuous when we are responsible for a lot of animal abuse too.

Posted by: x2lls Feb 3 2015, 02:04 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 3 2015, 10:49 AM) *
It beggars belief that as a supposedly educated and kind society we allow such barbarity to exist, yes I know what happens in a "normal" slaughter house and no it's not pretty, but halal is so hideously barbaric and cruel that it has no place in modern society. It truly is medieval.


Thank you TM, nice to see someone agrees. I suspect there won't be the volume of discussion here as there is in regard to council behaviour(?). I am puzzled as to why, in the 21st century, religion is given so much precedence to the degree it is allowed to skip the general rules of the land. I also suspect there will be a lack of discussion, due to the prevalent PC attitude to open dialogue. Hopefully, now the issue has reached the national level of media, the idiots who purport to represent our population, will do something about it.

Posted by: x2lls Feb 3 2015, 02:12 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Feb 3 2015, 01:48 PM) *
The meat trade is all varying degrees of barbarism. It is difficult to play at being virtuous when we are responsible for a lot of animal abuse too.


I wouldn't deny that, but where obvious abuse is going on, we have to deal with it as best we can. My argument is about the reasons we let it happen. Stop religion from being given preferential treatment and a big dent will be made in the problem

Posted by: On the edge Feb 3 2015, 02:59 PM

It's rather ironic that the religious slaughterers weren't even following the religious instructions in this case which makes one suspect that the religious rules aren't to be taken seriously anyway.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 3 2015, 04:23 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 3 2015, 12:49 PM) *
It beggars belief that as a supposedly educated and kind society we allow such barbarity to exist, yes I know what happens in a "normal" slaughter house and no it's not pretty, but halal is so hideously barbaric and cruel that it has no place in modern society. It truly is medieval.

Seconded (or is it thirded?) most wholeheartedly. And thanks for raising it.
As has been discussed before, sometimes we can be sold halal without even knowing it!

Posted by: Cognosco Feb 3 2015, 04:30 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Feb 3 2015, 02:04 PM) *
Thank you TM, nice to see someone agrees. I suspect there won't be the volume of discussion here as there is in regard to council behaviour(?). I am puzzled as to why, in the 21st century, religion is given so much precedence to the degree it is allowed to skip the general rules of the land. I also suspect there will be a lack of discussion, due to the prevalent PC attitude to open dialogue. Hopefully, now the issue has reached the national level of media, the idiots who purport to represent our population, will do something about it.


I would hope that there are not many who would condone such behavior but as per our council problems how many will stand up and be counted to add their voices to protest? sad.gif

Posted by: x2lls Feb 3 2015, 04:42 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Feb 3 2015, 02:59 PM) *
It's rather ironic that the religious slaughterers weren't even following the religious instructions in this case which makes one suspect that the religious rules aren't to be taken seriously anyway.


As said on other threads, where is the 'like' button!

Posted by: JeffG Feb 3 2015, 05:07 PM

I note that on a visit to Israel, David Cameron said that he had no intention of changing the current dispensations for Kosher or Halal methods of religious slaughter. I don't know what the views of the opposition are, but I suspect any protest will fall on deaf ears. What a benighted country this is.

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 3 2015, 06:01 PM

If we saw someone mistreat animals like this by the side of the road we would and quite rightly call the police, and look for a prosecution. Just because they can hide behind "cultural differences" makes the whole thing even more disgusting. There is no excuse and no place in this society for this barbarism.

Posted by: blackdog Feb 3 2015, 06:17 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 3 2015, 06:01 PM) *
If we saw someone mistreat animals like this by the side of the road we would and quite rightly call the police, and look for a prosecution. Just because they can hide behind "cultural differences" makes the whole thing even more disgusting. There is no excuse and no place in this society for this barbarism.

Surely this current case is one which will result in a prosecution - it is animal cruelty, not halal slaughter. To use it to argue for the abolition of halal/kosher slaughter is like using a single case of spousal abuse to argue against marriage.

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 3 2015, 06:22 PM

I feel sooo strongly about halal slaughter and the inherent likelihood of my accidentally ingesting meat from this source that I am now a vegetarian.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 3 2015, 07:00 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 3 2015, 06:22 PM) *
I feel sooo strongly about halal slaughter and the inherent likelihood of my accidentally ingesting meat from this source that I am now a vegetarian.

That is the point. I feel the relaxation of rules to permit indecency is wrong, BUT, I am not innocent so I feel that protesting would be hypocritical. Personally I think all these meats should be banned; however, on the grounds of decency, I suspect we would and should see other meats banned too and then meat becomes a luxury. Some might feel that wouldn't be a bad thing.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 3 2015, 08:02 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Feb 3 2015, 06:17 PM) *
Surely this current case is one which will result in a prosecution - it is animal cruelty, not halal slaughter. To use it to argue for the abolition of halal/kosher slaughter is like using a single case of spousal abuse to argue against marriage.

I agree. There will be few people who would condone animal abuse and it's wholly wrong to suggest that religious Muslims or Jews would find this reported abuse any less repugnant than anyone else. There is no stress-free way in which to kill an animal, and for intensively farmed animals their whole existence is a fearful misery. Non-stun slaughter isn't my major concern in animal welfare when it's stacked up against slaughter generally and farming standards as a whole. I do agree that it is unacceptable that a religious rite should trump animal welfare standards, but I'm still not wholly convinced that this is so obviously the case here.

If you're concerned about animal welfare as I am then vegetarianism is an option (I've been a vegetarian for more than 20 years), but simply eating Organic meat is a good choice as Organic standards are pretty good for animal husbandry. It's an expensive option, but then that's the real problem here, the consumer's demand for cheap meat with no consideration for the animal that grew it.

Slaughter is a issue, but transport is a source of much suffering too - if you're concerned for animal welfare you'll already be protesting about the live transportation of animals I trust. It's distressing, but there's http://www.ciwf.org.uk/our-campaigns/live-animal-transport/ on the Compassion in World Farming site. Killing of cetaceans and other marine species is an unspeakable tragedy, so if you're not already I hope you will support http://www.seashepherd.org/ who are doing some good work fighting this slaughter. Then there's the suffering of animals in UK labs. That's a challenge because medical research has relieved some human suffering, but at a cost of much animal suffering. PETA are a great organisation and do much good work to challenge abuse, http://www.peta.org.uk/.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 3 2015, 08:21 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Feb 3 2015, 08:02 PM) *
I agree. There will be few people who would condone animal abuse and it's wholly wrong to suggest that religious Muslims or Jews would find this reported abuse any less repugnant than anyone else. There is no stress-free way in which to kill an animal, and for intensively farmed animals their whole existence is a fearful misery. Non-stun slaughter isn't my major concern in animal welfare when it's stacked up against slaughter generally and farming standards as a whole. I do agree that it is unacceptable that a religious rite should trump animal welfare standards, but I'm still not wholly convinced that this is so obviously the case here.

If you're concerned about animal welfare as I am then vegetarianism is an option (I've been a vegetarian for more than 20 years), but simply eating Organic meat is a good choice as Organic standards are pretty good for animal husbandry. It's an expensive option, but then that's the real problem here, the consumer's demand for cheap meat with no consideration for the animal that grew it.

Slaughter is a issue, but transport is a source of much suffering too - if you're concerned for animal welfare you'll already be protesting about the live transportation of animals I trust. It's distressing, but there's http://www.ciwf.org.uk/our-campaigns/live-animal-transport/ on the Compassion in World Farming site. Killing of cetaceans and other marine species is an unspeakable tragedy, so if you're not already I hope you will support http://www.seashepherd.org/ who are doing some good work fighting this slaughter. Then there's the suffering of animals in UK labs. That's a challenge because medical research has relieved some human suffering, but at a cost of much animal suffering. PETA are a great organisation and do much good work to challenge abuse, http://www.peta.org.uk/.

That is a more verbose version of my point. My use of mass produced meat is not something with which to be proud either.

Posted by: The Hatter Feb 6 2015, 08:14 PM

Theres a petition going round saying there should be cameras put up. That might stop the workers being cruel at least.

Posted by: x2lls Oct 27 2017, 06:57 PM

At last , someone woke up and listened.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-41765927

Please, let this be the start of things to come.
Why are we giving islam so much priority?


Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 27 2017, 07:21 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Oct 27 2017, 07:57 PM) *
At last , someone woke up and listened.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-41765927

Please, let this be the start of things to come.
Why are we giving islam so much priority?


Because in 100 to 200 years we will be an Islamic state. More people in the uk will be Muslim than Christian. Just a fact..

Posted by: newres Oct 27 2017, 07:24 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 27 2017, 08:21 PM) *
Because in 100 to 200 years we will be an Islamic state. More people in the uk will be Muslim than Christian. Just a fact..

Do you actually believe that? Whatís your masters in? Baiting? laugh.gif

Posted by: x2lls Oct 27 2017, 07:38 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Oct 27 2017, 08:24 PM) *
Do you actually believe that? Whatís your masters in? Baiting? laugh.gif



You are part of the huge problem. Deluded as usual.
FYI, I have always given you the benefit of the doubt.
Never again.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 27 2017, 07:48 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Oct 27 2017, 08:38 PM) *
You are part of the huge problem. Deluded as usual.
FYI, I have always given you the benefit of the doubt.
Never again.


Im afraid the UK has a huge problem. Not with the majority of musmims I meet. But with people like Newres. They are the real problem. They want to see the destruction of everything that is British.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 27 2017, 07:50 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Oct 27 2017, 08:24 PM) *
Do you actually believe that? Whatís your masters in? Baiting? laugh.gif

Whilst yours would presumably be in pseudo science?

Posted by: newres Oct 27 2017, 07:51 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Oct 27 2017, 08:38 PM) *
You are part of the huge problem. Deluded as usual.
FYI, I have always given you the benefit of the doubt.
Never again.

I'm deluded? So you think the UK will be an Islamic state in a hundred years too? You really are idiots if you think that.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 27 2017, 07:58 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Oct 27 2017, 08:51 PM) *
I'm deluded? So you think the UK will be an Islamic state in a hundred years too? You really are idiots if you think that.


Where do you live??? 1974??

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 27 2017, 08:55 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 27 2017, 08:21 PM) *
Because in 100 to 200 years we will be an Islamic state. More people in the uk will be Muslim than Christian. Just a fact..

How can a prediction be Ďfactí?

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 27 2017, 09:02 PM

Surely by that time science will have advanced far enough scotch any notion of the deluded nonsense that is Islam?
(And probably Christianity as well?)

We probably have bigger fish to fry than this anyway.
The population of the UK has grown by 10M over the last 50 years and is increasing exponentially.
In 200 years time, bar any disasters!!!, the population will be around 100M!! ohmy.gif
Frightening eh?
Well perhaps not for us. dry.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 27 2017, 09:02 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 27 2017, 09:55 PM) *
How can a prediction be Ďfactí?

Surely you can understand that? A big fan of pseudo science like you.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 27 2017, 09:05 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 27 2017, 10:02 PM) *
Surely you can understand that? A big fan of pseudo science like you.


Only libtard facts are facts. Like Brexit being bad for the UK....😂😂

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 27 2017, 09:07 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Oct 27 2017, 10:02 PM) *
Surely by that time science will have advanced far enough scotch any notion of the deluded nonsense that is Islam?
(And probably Christianity as well?)


I do hope so...Sky faries...😄

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 27 2017, 09:16 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 27 2017, 10:02 PM) *
Surely you can understand that? A big fan of pseudo science like you.

It is difficult to understand a nonsense.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 27 2017, 10:28 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 27 2017, 10:16 PM) *
It is difficult to understand any of my nonsense.

Fixxored that for you

Posted by: newres Oct 28 2017, 03:34 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 27 2017, 10:16 PM) *
It is difficult to understand a nonsense.

Their nonsense has ascended to playground level. Itís as if since you pointed out that thereís science behind their idiocy, theyíve decided WTF, letís embrace it. They moan about all the foreigners but honestly, they prove that in Newbury at least, some fresh genes are needed.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 28 2017, 06:13 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Oct 28 2017, 04:34 AM) *
Their nonsense has ascended to playground level. Itís as if since you pointed out that thereís science behind their idiocy, theyíve decided WTF, letís embrace it. They moan about all the foreigners but honestly, they prove that in Newbury at least, some fresh genes are needed.


Better move Newres. Poole is nice. Then you can be Poores...💩😂😂

Posted by: newres Oct 28 2017, 07:50 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 28 2017, 07:13 AM) *
Better move Newres. Poole is nice. Then you can be Poores...💩😂😂

I'm quite happy here. It's you that wants to change everything. wink.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Oct 28 2017, 08:44 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 27 2017, 10:07 PM) *
I do hope so...Sky faries...😄


Religious following is rather like the fervour of rival football fans . Their particular team is always going to be no.1 and they are quite happy to duff up their opposing counterpart and no power on earth will convince them that it is just a game , or in the case of a deity , just a fantasy .
When "god" steps down from the clouds and stops children being buried alive during an earthquake I will be at the front of the queue to apologise for doubting his existence , but I am not going to invest in running shoes anytime soon .

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 28 2017, 08:53 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Oct 28 2017, 04:34 AM) *
Their nonsense has ascended to playground level. Itís as if since you pointed out that thereís pseudo science behind my idiocy, theyíve decided WTF, letís embrace it. They moan about all the foreigners but honestly, they prove that in Newbury at least, some fresh libtards are needed because the old one are broken.

FTFY.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2017, 09:03 AM

It is short sighted to believe religion starts and stops with being persuaded that a supernatural being exists. In the same way that it is short sighted to say it is only a game.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2017, 09:14 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 27 2017, 10:05 PM) *
Only libtard facts are facts. Like Brexit being bad for the UK....😂😂

You may believe we will one day become an Islamic state and it might actually happen, but until it happens it cannot exist as a fact. The problem is, as has been proven scientifically, right-wingers are easily frightened and will take such words to be true which leads to disharmony.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2017, 09:28 AM

However, on topic, pre-stunning should be be mandatory, but I would be uncomfortable to announce UK slaughter standards are anything to be proud of.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 28 2017, 09:28 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 28 2017, 10:14 AM) *
You may believe we will one day become an Islamic state and it might actually happen, but until it happens it cannot exist as a fact. The problem is, as has been proven scientifically, right-wingers are easily frightened and will take such words to be true which leads to disharmony.

Ah! So now more pseudo science to prove that Tories are easily frightened! Interesting! Tell me more young Skywalker, tell me more!

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2017, 09:37 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 28 2017, 10:28 AM) *
Ah! So now more pseudo science to prove that Tories are easily frightened! Interesting! Tell me more young Skywalker, tell me more!

You have misunderstood. My statement isnít a scientific theory, pseudo or otherwise, I am simply reporting that scientists have found a link between being right-wing and being scared of foreigners and their cultures.

Posted by: blackdog Oct 28 2017, 09:37 AM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 28 2017, 09:44 AM) *
Religious following is rather like the fervour of rival football fans . Their particular team is always going to be no.1 and they are quite happy to duff up their opposing counterpart and no power on earth will convince them that it is just a game , or in the case of a deity , just a fantasy .
When "god" steps down from the clouds and stops children being buried alive during an earthquake I will be at the front of the queue to apologise for doubting his existence , but I am not going to invest in running shoes anytime soon .


Why should God stop children being buried in an earthquake when she went to all the trouble of creating the earthquake in order to bury them? The fact that God does not do what you think he should do is not proof that God doesn't exist, just that God's agenda is different from yours.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2017, 09:42 AM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Oct 28 2017, 10:37 AM) *
Why should God stop children being buried in an earthquake when she went to all the trouble of creating the earthquake in order to bury them? The fact that God does not do what you think he should do is not proof that God doesn't exist, just that God's agenda is different from yours.

Good point: Why should God be Ďgoodí? Perhaps he or she is sick of Manís sycophancy.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 28 2017, 10:30 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 28 2017, 10:42 AM) *
Good point: Why should God be Ďgoodí? Perhaps he or she is sick of Manís sycophancy.


Bring on the rapture.😂😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 28 2017, 10:55 AM

Or if AC is trying to think, rupture!

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 28 2017, 10:56 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 28 2017, 10:37 AM) *
You have misunderstood. My statement isnít a scientific theory, pseudo or otherwise, I am simply reporting that scientists have found a link between being right-wing and being scared of foreigners and their cultures.

A scientist, in a very dubious paper, where he tests children.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2017, 11:27 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 28 2017, 11:56 AM) *
A scientist, in a very dubious paper, where he tests children.

Daily I witness imperical evidence to support the findings.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 28 2017, 11:33 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 28 2017, 12:27 PM) *
Daily I witness imperical evidence to support the findings.


In your left leaning biased mind.

Posted by: SirWilliam Oct 28 2017, 11:54 AM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Oct 28 2017, 10:37 AM) *
Why should God stop children being buried in an earthquake when she went to all the trouble of creating the earthquake in order to bury them? The fact that God does not do what you think he should do is not proof that God doesn't exist, just that God's agenda is different from yours.


Actually you are closer to the mark than you would probably care to admit . If the " almighty one " created man in his image as the various doctrines indicate , then it's odds on that he isn't as nice a person as we would envisage . So maybe his arch nemesis satan is actually the good guy but has not received the positive publicity afforded to god by the biased media moguls ?
Personally I prefer the tooth fairy.........least it leaves sixpence after visiting .

Posted by: The Hatter Oct 28 2017, 02:46 PM

If I had a choice of finishing things or living in a World controlled by those without a faith; then I'd take first option. Imagine, working for a bosses like Je Suise and having neighbours with TDH attitudes; who would want that!


Posted by: SirWilliam Oct 28 2017, 03:32 PM

QUOTE (The Hatter @ Oct 28 2017, 03:46 PM) *
If I had a choice of finishing things or living in a World controlled by those without a faith; then I'd take first option. Imagine, working for a bosses like Je Suise and having neighbours with TDH attitudes; who would want that!


Wondered why I felt a case of dťjŗ vu . Compared to some of my old bosses JS is a pussycat but might be interesting chatting to TDH over a coffee on sunday morning . tongue.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 28 2017, 03:50 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 28 2017, 04:32 PM) *
Wondered why I felt a case of dťjŗ vu . Compared to some of my old bosses JS is a pussycat but might be interesting chatting to TDH over a coffee on sunday morning . tongue.gif


Any time Sir Will.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 28 2017, 04:11 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 28 2017, 12:27 PM) *
Daily I witness imperical evidence to support the findings.

I bet there's loads of imperical evidence to support that the Earth's flat. It's merely a measure of intelligence or lack of same whether you believe it or not.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 28 2017, 04:13 PM

QUOTE (The Hatter @ Oct 28 2017, 03:46 PM) *
If I had a choice of finishing things or living in a World controlled by those without a faith; then I'd take first option. Imagine, working for a bosses like Je Suise and having neighbours with TDH attitudes; who would want that!

Strangely enough I'm considered to be quite a good boss, firm but fair is oft bandied around.

Posted by: The Hatter Oct 28 2017, 04:59 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 28 2017, 04:32 PM) *
Wondered why I felt a case of dťjŗ vu . Compared to some of my old bosses JS is a pussycat but might be interesting chatting to TDH over a coffee on sunday morning . tongue.gif


I didn't realise you three knew each other in real life; nevertheless perception is everything all anyone else sees are the posts and as they are on the local paper's website, will be taken as representative.

Posted by: newres Oct 28 2017, 04:59 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 28 2017, 05:13 PM) *
Strangely enough I'm considered to be quite a good boss, firm but fair is oft bandied around.

By you no doubt. laugh.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 28 2017, 05:04 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Oct 28 2017, 05:59 PM) *
By you no doubt. laugh.gif

As well I think. I just will not tolerate stupidity, insolence or bullying of other workers.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2017, 05:25 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 28 2017, 06:04 PM) *
As well I think. I just will not tolerate stupidity, insolence or bullying of other workers.

You want the monopoly on that I presume.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 28 2017, 05:44 PM

QUOTE (The Hatter @ Oct 28 2017, 05:59 PM) *
I didn't realise you three knew each other in real life; nevertheless perception is everything all anyone else sees are the posts and as they are on the local paper's website, will be taken as representative.

Me Sir Will and Je Suis meet each week at the lodge. A few black balls on this board...😂😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 28 2017, 05:48 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 28 2017, 06:25 PM) *
You want the monopoly on that I presume.

And there's you done so well, Mr walking to the station!

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 28 2017, 05:50 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 28 2017, 06:44 PM) *
Me Sir Will and Je Suis meet each week at the lodge. A few black balls on this board...😂😂

See you Thursday master, as it's Halloween shall we barbeque some puppies?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 28 2017, 06:42 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 28 2017, 06:50 PM) *
See you Thursday master, as it's Halloween shall we barbeque some puppies?


Puppies? I know a girl at work... Oh god that would get me in trouble these days... Anyways... Yes the Lodge on London Road. Make sure you bring the burning cross. I'll bring bring the black shirts and the St George flags.🚀😀

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 28 2017, 06:45 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 28 2017, 07:42 PM) *
Puppies? I know a girl at work... Oh god that would get me in trouble these days... Anyways... Yes the Lodge on London Road. Make sure you bring the burning cross. I'll bring bring the black shirts and the St George flags.🚀😀

Ah, thought it was my turn to bring the flour sacks, never mind I'm sure I can order burning crosses online, I'll try the daily mail website first.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 28 2017, 07:23 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 28 2017, 07:45 PM) *
Ah, thought it was my turn to bring the flour sacks, never mind I'm sure I can order burning crosses online, I'll try the daily mail website first.


I understand the mail have a special offer. if you save the coupons you can get 20 burning crosses for the price of 2. Just have to buy it for 8 weeks and cut the coupons out..Marvellous. Apparently they are also throwing in a few golliwogs and a copy of the satamic verses for free. Top offer!!

Posted by: SirWilliam Oct 29 2017, 07:06 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 28 2017, 07:23 PM) *
I understand the mail have a special offer. if you save the coupons you can get 20 burning crosses for the price of 2. Just have to buy it for 8 weeks and cut the coupons out..Marvellous. Apparently they are also throwing in a few golliwogs and a copy of the satamic verses for free. Top offer!!


Apparently the Grauniad is doing a similar marketing exercise by offering a Diane Abbott doll to those who find her obvious charms irresistible in the hope that those who have naughty thoughts in the workplace will concentrate on running the Country instead of encouraging her to accompany them to the stationary cupboard .
The free bit ? Retention of one's position at the top table . rolleyes.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 29 2017, 07:34 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 29 2017, 07:06 PM) *
Apparently the Grauniad is doing a similar marketing exercise by offering a Diane Abbott doll to those who find her obvious charms irresistible in the hope that those who have naughty thoughts in the workplace will concentrate on running the Country instead of encouraging her to accompany them to the stationary cupboard .
The free bit ? Retention of one's position at the top table . rolleyes.gif


I had to laugh when Marr asked this morning if she has ever been attacked or abused? I know its not "PC" but really? Apparently she hadn't.... Quel surprise... I suppose blunkett may have done it by accident back in the day.😂 q the liberal outrage at what is just fact.

Posted by: SirWilliam Oct 29 2017, 10:03 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 29 2017, 07:34 PM) *
I had to laugh when Marr asked this morning if she has ever been attacked or abused? I know its not "PC" but really? Apparently she hadn't.... Quel surprise... I suppose blunkett may have done it by accident back in the day.😂 q the liberal outrage at what is just fact.


I was going to suggest that maybe his dog had , but then I realised that he could see . laugh.gif

Posted by: newres Oct 30 2017, 07:07 AM

What lovely folks you are and no doubt perfect physical specimens.

Posted by: SirWilliam Oct 30 2017, 08:59 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Oct 30 2017, 07:07 AM) *
What lovely folks you are and no doubt perfect physical specimens.


Thank you for the compliment . Unfortunately as far as body beautiful goes a couple of old war wounds has left me a little wanting in that department .

Posted by: x2lls Jan 24 2018, 09:40 PM

Back to on topic..

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/blackburn/15893032.County_council_backs_down_over_decision_to_ban_unstunned_halal_meat_in_schools/?ref=twtrec


Caber throwers.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 24 2018, 10:24 PM

https://web.archive.org/web/20160411175643/http://www.simplyhalalfood.com/

These people (other descriptions may apply) supply your local friendly Morrison's.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 24 2018, 10:44 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 24 2018, 10:24 PM) *
https://web.archive.org/web/20160411175643/http://www.simplyhalalfood.com/

These people (other descriptions may apply) supply your local friendly Morrison's.


Let them get on with it. Next time you fancy slaughtering an animal, say a fox, just crack on. See what happens.😂

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 25 2018, 05:54 AM

Post removed due to fear of the rozzers turning up en mass and arresting me for an alleged "hate crime"! tongue.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 25 2018, 09:10 AM

And the chosen few wonder why there is an increase in islamophobia? The ultimate irony is that if I kill a rat, in what may be deemed an inhumane manner, I will receive a visit from plod, if I offer up a religious observance as a defence then everything is hunkydory.
If we show disrespect to the animals in our care what chance has the wider world's wildlife got? angry.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 27 2018, 05:30 PM

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/halal-horror-house-undercover-video-7871779

Warning, distressing report, viewing for strong of stomach only.

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 27 2018, 06:54 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 27 2018, 05:30 PM) *
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/halal-horror-house-undercover-video-7871779

Warning, distressing report, viewing for strong of stomach only.


In this age of social media why has not the hounds of he ll descended upon parliament to get this stopped? This even goes against the halal supposed code whereby each animal should be dispatched out of the view of others. I suggest each and every one of us forward this clip to Beynon ( mp@richardbenyon.com ) and demand he asks a question in the house . This can only be stopped by public action.

Incidentally, why did the undercover reporter not say something at the time? He/she was within the law to call the RSPCA in at that point. Those animals that were still kicking on the end of the chain would in essence be skinned alive the other side of the door.

Any left wing do gooders wish to condone this behaviour?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 27 2018, 08:41 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 27 2018, 06:54 PM) *
In this age of social media why has not the hounds of he ll descended upon parliament to get this stopped? This even goes against the halal supposed code whereby each animal should be dispatched out of the view of others. I suggest each and every one of us forward this clip to Beynon ( mp@richardbenyon.com ) and demand he asks a question in the house . This can only be stopped by public action.

Incidentally, why did the undercover reporter not say something at the time? He/she was within the law to call the RSPCA in at that point. Those animals that were still kicking on the end of the chain would in essence be skinned alive the other side of the door.

Any left wing do gooders wish to condone this behaviour?


Personally I dont see any difference between this and hounds tearing a fox to pieces. Apart from the fact that one used to be carried out by white rich toffs and is now banned and the other by personages wanting meat to comply with instructions from a book thousands of years old about a sky fairy.

But hey we live in a world now where models are banned feom walking darts players on and James Bond is a rapist.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 27 2018, 08:57 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 27 2018, 06:54 PM) *
In this age of social media why has not the hounds of he ll descended upon parliament to get this stopped? This even goes against the halal supposed code whereby each animal should be dispatched out of the view of others. I suggest each and every one of us forward this clip to Beynon ( mp@richardbenyon.com ) and demand he asks a question in the house . This can only be stopped by public action.

Incidentally, why did the undercover reporter not say something at the time? He/she was within the law to call the RSPCA in at that point. Those animals that were still kicking on the end of the chain would in essence be skinned alive the other side of the door.

Any left wing do gooders wish to condone this behaviour?


As this isn't new news, has anyone done anything to make their views known to our law makers and regulators? Indeed, asked why RSPCA haven't prosecuted; religious issues notwithstanding, this clip still shows criminal activity.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 27 2018, 10:02 PM

four days ago

http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/23/halal-abattoir-staff-caught-undercover-camera-hacking-sawing-sheeps-throats-7253507/

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 27 2018, 10:06 PM

"It also saw sheep being kicked in the face and head and being hurled into metal walls, taunted and frightened by workers at the abattoir."


Allah be praised!

"Artur Lewandowski, 33, of Darlington, admitted a charge of causing unnecessary suffering to four sheep by lifting them by their fleeces during the slaughter process. Kabeer Hussain, 44, of Bradford admitted one charge of failing to give 24 sheep sufficient time to lose consciousness after they were slaughtered. Kazeem Hussain, 53, of Bradford, pleaded guilty to two charges Ė one of not giving 19 sheep sufficient time to lose consciousness after they were slaughtered and a further charge of failing to cut the throats of six sheep in the required manner with a single cut."

A kind and compassionate religion.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 27 2018, 10:42 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 27 2018, 08:57 PM) *
As this isn't new news, has anyone done anything to make their views known to our law makers and regulators? Indeed, asked why RSPCA haven't prosecuted; religious issues notwithstanding, this clip still shows criminal activity.

They have. We all know that slaughter houses often attract vicious sadistic people to work in them, its part of the price of being a meat eater, nasty but true, but to do it for religious purposes is indefensible. Do what I do, boycott ANY business that you find using meat slaughtered in this manner. Use farm shops. And get involved with petitions.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 27 2018, 10:50 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 27 2018, 10:06 PM) *
"It also saw sheep being kicked in the face and head and being hurled into metal walls, taunted and frightened by workers at the abattoir."


Allah be praised!

"Artur Lewandowski, 33, of Darlington, admitted a charge of causing unnecessary suffering to four sheep by lifting them by their fleeces during the slaughter process. Kabeer Hussain, 44, of Bradford admitted one charge of failing to give 24 sheep sufficient time to lose consciousness after they were slaughtered. Kazeem Hussain, 53, of Bradford, pleaded guilty to two charges Ė one of not giving 19 sheep sufficient time to lose consciousness after they were slaughtered and a further charge of failing to cut the throats of six sheep in the required manner with a single cut."

A kind and compassionate religion.


Halal should go the way of fox hunting. Ita barbaric. Religion is irrelevant. Ban it. People can always eat quorn and be veggie if they dont want to eat meat slaughtered in a way that is based on the princpal of causing as little distress as possible to the animal. Alternatively they can always emigrate to a Country that does allow it.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 28 2018, 07:11 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 27 2018, 10:50 PM) *
Halal should go the way of fox hunting. Ita barbaric. Religion is irrelevant. Ban it. People can always eat quorn and be veggie if they dont want to eat meat slaughtered in a way that is based on the princpal of causing as little distress as possible to the animal. Alternatively they can always emigrate to a Country that does allow it.


Yes, quite so. Religion is irrelevant here as indeed the outrages often reported in other slaughterhouses demonstrate. We clearly need much tougher inspection regimes with appropriate strong enforcement and prosecuting powers.

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 28 2018, 09:47 AM

I am no expert on the ways of the varies tooth fairies directive on the slaughter of animals for consumption , but it would appear that pre-stunning is perfectly acceptable within the islamic parameters providing the animal is still "alive" in order to bleed out fully. So no initial stunning is less a religious issue more a case of complete disregard for any suffering occurred. Let's face it the islamic world has followers who quite happily bomb children so a "dumb" animal has no chance. The Jewish kosher practice prohibits any form of stunning whatsoever as the animal needs to be conscious for the complete procedure.
If you found the lamb slaughter video upsetting I suggest you do not view a large bovine or you will never eat beef again.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 28 2018, 10:54 AM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 28 2018, 09:47 AM) *
I am no expert on the ways of the varies tooth fairies directive on the slaughter of animals for consumption , but it would appear that pre-stunning is perfectly acceptable within the islamic parameters providing the animal is still "alive" in order to bleed out fully. So no initial stunning is less a religious issue more a case of complete disregard for any suffering occurred. Let's face it the islamic world has followers who quite happily bomb children so a "dumb" animal has no chance. The Jewish kosher practice prohibits any form of stunning whatsoever as the animal needs to be conscious for the complete procedure.
If you found the lamb slaughter video upsetting I suggest you do not view a large bovine or you will never eat beef again.

You don't seem to understand do you? Snowflake Britain either thinks it's OK or simply choose to ignore it. So it must be OK.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 28 2018, 11:12 AM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 28 2018, 09:47 AM) *
I am no expert on the ways of the varies tooth fairies directive on the slaughter of animals for consumption , but it would appear that pre-stunning is perfectly acceptable within the islamic parameters providing the animal is still "alive" in order to bleed out fully. So no initial stunning is less a religious issue more a case of complete disregard for any suffering occurred. Let's face it the islamic world has followers who quite happily bomb children so a "dumb" animal has no chance. The Jewish kosher practice prohibits any form of stunning whatsoever as the animal needs to be conscious for the complete procedure.
If you found the lamb slaughter video upsetting I suggest you do not view a large bovine or you will never eat beef again.

There is to my mind a finer theological point to be found here, if God created all the creatures that inhabit the earth and if we also believe that "Then he will answer and he will say to them, 'Amen, I say to you, as much as you have not done to one of these little ones, neither have you done that to me.' then how can anyone excuse causing the deliberate suffering of any creature on religious grounds?

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 28 2018, 11:27 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jan 28 2018, 11:12 AM) *
There is to my mind a finer theological point to be found here, if God created all the creatures that inhabit the earth and if we also believe that "Then he will answer and he will say to them, 'Amen, I say to you, as much as you have not done to one of these little ones, neither have you done that to me.' then how can anyone excuse causing the deliberate suffering of any creature on religious grounds?

He omitted it from the final draft of his autobiography because his publisher said no one would take any notice. Concentrate on " thou shall not fornicate with others" bits and you will have a best seller. Lets face it most of the human race doesn't give a monkeys how we treat the animals on the planet which is why so many species are going to the wall, which eventually will include us. The planet won't lose to much sleep over that, but things could have been so different.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 28 2018, 11:53 AM

I feel all animals should be stunned, but if animal welfare is a great concern then one should consider veganisum. From what I read, the cruelty in dairy is every bit as bad as the meat industry.

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 28 2018, 12:32 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 28 2018, 11:53 AM) *
I feel all animals should be stunned, but if animal welfare is a great concern then one should consider veganisum. From what I read, the cruelty in dairy is every bit as bad as the meat industry.


Though I agree with your position in principle, placating one's own conscience does not prevent the ongoing cruelty. If we all became vegetarian overnight it would result in every farm animal being killed and left to rot, the countryside predominately used for meat would, over a very short period, become unrecognisable, and that land used for food production would rely increasingly on fossil fuel fertiliser. The reality is we are an omnivorous species and eating meat is a staple of our diet but that does not mean we can treat that food sauce with scant regard to welfare.
The sad thing is that if the law of the land was adhered to we would be debating more contemporary topics such as " should our next prime minister be transgender" ?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 28 2018, 01:24 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 28 2018, 12:32 PM) *
Though I agree with your position in principle, placating one's own conscience does not prevent the ongoing cruelty. If we all became vegetarian overnight it would result in every farm animal being killed and left to rot, the countryside predominately used for meat would, over a very short period, become unrecognisable, and that land used for food production would rely increasingly on fossil fuel fertiliser. The reality is we are an omnivorous species and eating meat is a staple of our diet but that does not mean we can treat that food sauce with scant regard to welfare.
The sad thing is that if the law of the land was adhered to we would be debating more contemporary topics such as " should our next prime minister be transgender" ?


What sort of transgender? So many names for it now to bundle them all up as trans is quite wrong and insulting.😂

You'll be calling none whites coloured soon. A disgrace!!!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 28 2018, 01:26 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 28 2018, 11:53 AM) *
I feel all animals should be stunned, but if animal welfare is a great concern then one should consider veganisum. From what I read, the cruelty in dairy is every bit as bad as the meat industry.

What about the vegetables? Poor things. You broccoli murderer.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 28 2018, 01:33 PM

Don't please get me started on "gender issues" more snowflake garbage for people with nowt else to worry their tiny little brains about. angry.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 28 2018, 01:36 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 28 2018, 11:53 AM) *
I feel all animals should be stunned, but if animal welfare is a great concern then one should consider veganisum. From what I read, the cruelty in dairy is every bit as bad as the meat industry.

A true libtard view, draw the curtains, put your fingers in your ears, go 'lalala' to yourself and pretend it's not happening.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 28 2018, 02:34 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 28 2018, 01:33 PM) *
Don't please get me started on "gender issues" more snowflake garbage for people with nowt else to worry their tiny little brains about. angry.gif

Je suis. Tut Tut. You must keep up to date to avoid causing hurt.

http://thepbhscloset.weebly.com/a-list-of-genders--sexualities-and-their-definitions.html

Posted by: On the edge Jan 28 2018, 02:52 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 27 2018, 10:42 PM) *
They have. We all know that slaughter houses often attract vicious sadistic people to work in them, its part of the price of being a meat eater, nasty but true, but to do it for religious purposes is indefensible. Do what I do, boycott ANY business that you find using meat slaughtered in this manner. Use farm shops. And get involved with petitions.


Animal cruelty is indefensible for ANY reason. Yes, I do buy meat only from places which can confirm animals aren't slaughtered inhumanly and I also contact in person in writing law makers to get regulatory inspection and enforcement procedures significantly tightened.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 28 2018, 02:58 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 28 2018, 02:52 PM) *
Animal cruelty is indefensible for ANY reason. Yes, I do buy meat only from places which can confirm animals aren't slaughtered inhumanly and I also contact in person in writing law makers to get regulatory inspection and enforcement procedures significantly tightened.

Good man! There's a petition, I think it's still open, to stop the export of live animals for slaughter. Please sign it. The more people who pitch in the more chance there is of stopping it. wink.gif

Posted by: On the edge Jan 28 2018, 03:01 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 28 2018, 11:53 AM) *
I feel all animals should be stunned, but if animal welfare is a great concern then one should consider veganisum. From what I read, the cruelty in dairy is every bit as bad as the meat industry.


Sadly, yes it is. This whole area is another unsung consequence of 'austerity' cuts in local government and the rise in that wonderful political cop out 'self management'. Trying to get something done is almost impossible, ironically, highlighting cases with a religious aspect is counter productive, because those wanting to prevent stricter regulation are first to shout it's only Islamaphobia!

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 28 2018, 04:02 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 28 2018, 01:36 PM) *
A true libtard view, draw the curtains, put your fingers in your ears, go 'lalala' to yourself and pretend it's not happening.

Iím sorry, but I am not seduced by your dog-whistling bigotry. If animal welfare is the sole motive, then I think we should also look at others areas of animal welfare that has similar cruelty.

Thereís nothing humane about killing a healthy animal that doesnít want to die.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 28 2018, 04:14 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 28 2018, 01:26 PM) *
What about the vegetables? Poor things. You broccoli murderer.

What about vegetables? I just donít believe in singling people out.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 28 2018, 04:56 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 28 2018, 04:02 PM) *
Iím sorry, but I am not seduced by your dog-whistling bigotry. If animal welfare is the sole motive, then I think we should also look at others areas of animal welfare that has similar cruelty.

Thereís nothing humane about killing a healthy animal that doesnít want to die.

Then do something, anything, just don't just ignore and say "doesn't effect me" And what other areas do you know that eviscerates animals while still alive on a daily basis?

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 28 2018, 06:49 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 28 2018, 02:58 PM) *
Good man! There's a petition, I think it's still open, to stop the export of live animals for slaughter. Please sign it. The more people who pitch in the more chance there is of stopping it. wink.gif


Before we got into bed with europe back in the '70s the live export of animals for slaughter was prohibited. The National Union of Seamen actually balloted for industrial action to prevent the practise being introduced on membership but of course that achieved nothing more than a "spanked bottom" from the free trade brigade.
There are very few countries who take this issue seriously, other than the scandinavians , so I am afraid nothing is going to change anytime soon. It is down to individuals to source their food from known producers but it is very difficult for Mr and Mrs Average to forgo the convenience and pricing of the local supermarket, and that is what those with the power to change are relying on.
Interesting to note that those who object to inhumane slaughter are branded racist / islamophobic/ sentimental nutcases but those who are happy to ignore are categorised as model citizens.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 28 2018, 07:08 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 28 2018, 06:49 PM) *
Before we got into bed with europe back in the '70s the live export of animals for slaughter was prohibited. The National Union of Seamen actually balloted for industrial action to prevent the practise being introduced on membership but of course that achieved nothing more than a "spanked bottom" from the free trade brigade.
There are very few countries who take this issue seriously, other than the scandinavians , so I am afraid nothing is going to change anytime soon. It is down to individuals to source their food from known producers but it is very difficult for Mr and Mrs Average to forgo the convenience and pricing of the local supermarket, and that is what those with the power to change are relying on.
Interesting to note that those who object to inhumane slaughter are branded racist / islamophobic/ sentimental nutcases but those who are happy to ignore are categorised as model citizens.


As always, big money. There is much wealth in the meat trade and they won't give that up easily.

Is the answer nearer than we think. The production of vegetable matter is much more efficient and 'created' foodstuff can be just as palatable. Far more people can be fed for far lower a cost or land use.


Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 28 2018, 08:07 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 28 2018, 06:49 PM) *
Interesting to note that those who object to inhumane slaughter are branded racist / islamophobic/ sentimental nutcases but those who are happy to ignore are categorised as model citizens.

Where is this the case?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 28 2018, 08:18 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 28 2018, 04:56 PM) *
Then do something, anything, just don't just ignore and say "doesn't effect me" And what other areas do you know that eviscerates animals while still alive on a daily basis?

Iím not sure, but I believe cruelty exists outside of cruel religious malpractice; dairy for instance: http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/is-there-more-cruelty-in-a-glass-of-milk-or-pound-of-beef/

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 28 2018, 09:23 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 28 2018, 08:18 PM) *
Iím not sure, but I believe cruelty exists outside of cruel religious mispractice; dairy for instance: http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/is-there-more-cruelty-in-a-glass-of-milk-or-pound-of-beef/

What a load of twisted emotional twaddle! Yes SOME male calves go to the veal trade, and yes that's vile, the rest of the argument, basically, TOSH! Still doesn't quite compare to animals being abused, tortured, skinned alive etc just because of some perceived "cultural difference"

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 28 2018, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 28 2018, 09:23 PM) *
What a load of twisted emotional twaddle! Yes SOME male calves go to the veal trade, and yes that's vile, the rest of the argument, basically, TOSH! Still doesn't quite compare to animals being abused, tortured, skinned alive etc just because of some perceived "cultural difference"


Nothing will happen. Too many libtards and lefties cant address it because it conflicts with the view that they are "tolerant". The same people would chase a white privilleged person on a horse across the countryside because it suits an agenda.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 28 2018, 09:49 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 28 2018, 09:37 PM) *
Nothing will happen. Too many libtards and lefties cant address it because it conflicts with the view that they are "tolerant". The same people would chase a white privilleged person on a horse across the countryside because it suits an agenda.

Remember the furore over the issue of sentience in animals? yet the same people would apparently condone the suffering of these same animals in the name of tolerance. Double standards or what?

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 28 2018, 10:10 PM

Anyway, it looks like all slaughterhouses will be forced to have CCTV now, not too soon.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 28 2018, 10:25 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jan 28 2018, 10:10 PM) *
Anyway, it looks like all slaughterhouses will be forced to have CCTV now, not too soon.

STILL doesn't address the issue of the cruelty of non stunning though, does it angry.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 29 2018, 09:21 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 28 2018, 09:23 PM) *
What a load of twisted emotional twaddle! Yes SOME male calves go to the veal trade, and yes that's vile, the rest of the argument, basically, TOSH! Still doesn't quite compare to animals being abused, tortured, skinned alive etc just because of some perceived "cultural difference"

And this comes from someone who ares for animal welfare; cruelty is cruelty whether for religious purposes or modern convenience.

https://www.peta.org/features/dairy-industry-cruelty/

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 29 2018, 11:42 AM

In the interest of balance I give you another side of a multi-sided coin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42833132

One never hears of these people taking the issue up with the local council to police the abattoirs under their jurisdiction, we don't see them lobbying parliament, and we certainly don't see them engage in the broader debate, but they consider it ok to bully farmers and consumers alike while turning a blind eye to the real culprits. Animal cruelty along with child abuse gets a lot of people hot under the collar but it still goes on and will do so till the end of time because it is in the human DNA.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 29 2018, 01:56 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 29 2018, 11:42 AM) *
In the interest of balance I give you another side of a multi-sided coin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42833132

One never hears of these people taking the issue up with the local council to police the abattoirs under their jurisdiction, we don't see them lobbying parliament, and we certainly don't see them engage in the broader debate, but they consider it ok to bully farmers and consumers alike while turning a blind eye to the real culprits. Animal cruelty along with child abuse gets a lot of people hot under the collar but it still goes on and will do so till the end of time because it is in the human DNA.

There are some very vocal lobby groups and activists alike.

https://www.peta.org.uk/blog/the-truth-about-halal-meat/
http://www.theweek.co.uk/58447/halal-meat-what-does-it-involve-and-is-it-cruel-to-animals
https://www.peta.org/features/agriprocessors/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/03/islamophobes-animal-welfare-sheep-tortured-halal-slaughterhouse
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/outcry-after-undercover-film-exposes-brutality-of-halal-industry-10019467.html
https://uk.reuters.com/article/soccer-champions-peta/soccer-peta-seeks-ban-on-ritual-slaughter-of-animals-idUKL4N0GO1V820130823

Posted by: On the edge Jan 29 2018, 01:59 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 29 2018, 11:42 AM) *
In the interest of balance I give you another side of a multi-sided coin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42833132

One never hears of these people taking the issue up with the local council to police the abattoirs under their jurisdiction, we don't see them lobbying parliament, and we certainly don't see them engage in the broader debate, but they consider it ok to bully farmers and consumers alike while turning a blind eye to the real culprits. Animal cruelty along with child abuse gets a lot of people hot under the collar but it still goes on and will do so till the end of time because it is in the human DNA.


I think the opening three words of the second paragraph outlines the problem.

Even true even locally; how many protests have we seen? How many 'letters to the editor'? How many bespoke emails / letters to Councillors / MPs?

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 29 2018, 04:00 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 29 2018, 01:56 PM) *
There are some very vocal lobby groups and activists alike.

https://www.peta.org.uk/blog/the-truth-about-halal-meat/
http://www.theweek.co.uk/58447/halal-meat-what-does-it-involve-and-is-it-cruel-to-animals
https://www.peta.org/features/agriprocessors/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/03/islamophobes-animal-welfare-sheep-tortured-halal-slaughterhouse
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/outcry-after-undercover-film-exposes-brutality-of-halal-industry-10019467.html
https://uk.reuters.com/article/soccer-champions-peta/soccer-peta-seeks-ban-on-ritual-slaughter-of-animals-idUKL4N0GO1V820130823


I consider the Grauniad article particularly measured. As has been outlined by others this is a cruelty matter, the fact that it is carried out by those who some would like to see removed from the UK only highlights the need for all parties to ensure it is eradicated. The muslim community could and should show itself as completely integrated by recognising public feeling instead of waving the race/religious banner.

I do not know if anyone who is of islamic persuasion reads this forum but I would welcome their input.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 29 2018, 05:30 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 29 2018, 04:00 PM) *
I consider the Grauniad article particularly measured. As has been outlined by others this is a cruelty matter, the fact that it is carried out by those who some would like to see removed from the UK only highlights the need for all parties to ensure it is eradicated. The muslim community could and should show itself as completely integrated by recognising public feeling instead of waving the race/religious banner.

I do not know if anyone who is of islamic persuasion reads this forum but I would welcome their input.


This thread is now over 5 years old without what I can see, a representative view from the faith.

We can only wait, so time will tell.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 29 2018, 06:45 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 29 2018, 01:59 PM) *
I think the opening three words of the second paragraph outlines the problem.

Even true even locally; how many protests have we seen? How many 'letters to the editor'? How many bespoke emails / letters to Councillors / MPs?

Validior vox operis quam oris!

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 29 2018, 07:05 PM

While Halal may raise temperature, from what I have read, kosha is possibly worse. My view is simply all creatures should be stunned and not within sight or earshot of each other. No exceptions.

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 29 2018, 07:47 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 29 2018, 07:05 PM) *
While Halal may raise temperature, from what I have read, kosha is possibly worse. My view is simply all creatures should be stunned and not within sight or earshot of each other. No exceptions.



Exactly. What is the point of having a law for one, ( a "British" abattoir ), and no law for those who chose to run it on "religious grounds?


Si fueris Rōmae, Rōmānō vīvitō mōre as the locals say,.............. but not if it offends your tame tooth fairy. angry.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 29 2018, 08:02 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jan 29 2018, 05:30 PM) *
This thread is now over 5 years old without what I can see, a representative view from the faith.

We can only wait, so time will tell.


Bit like the supposed second coming, probably best to assume that it ain't gonna happen. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 29 2018, 08:09 PM

Duplicate

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 29 2018, 08:09 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 29 2018, 08:09 PM) *
You need to start a thread about the evils of British life. Might get some comments then.😂


Posted by: The Hatter Jan 30 2018, 07:22 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 29 2018, 07:05 PM) *
While Halal may raise temperature, from what I have read, kosha is possibly worse. My view is simply all creatures should be stunned and not within sight or earshot of each other. No exceptions.


I think most people would agree with that; there can't be any exceptions.

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 30 2018, 08:59 AM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jan 29 2018, 07:30 PM) *
This thread is now over 5 years old without what I can see, a representative view from the faith.

We can only wait, so time will tell.

You will wait forever.
For them there is no argument.
Brainwashed from birth with no permitted counter view!

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 30 2018, 11:25 AM

A contributing problem is that the closure of local abattoirs has concentrated the process into a few units that are operating on an industrial scale. Coupled with the fact that slaughterhouse staff are paid piece work and corners are going to be cut.
We are all aware by now that, apart from kosher, religion is not a factor so it boils down to a complete disregard to an animals suffering.

The complete hypocrisy is that we, as a society, dictate to the rest of the world on animal welfare yet we can't even put our own house in order.

Posted by: blackdog Jan 30 2018, 07:00 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jan 29 2018, 05:30 PM) *
This thread is now over 5 years old without what I can see, a representative view from the faith.

We can only wait, so time will tell.

As none of the 7 users of the forum are moslems the wait will probably be a very long one.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 30 2018, 08:52 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Jan 30 2018, 07:00 PM) *
As none of the 7 users of the forum are moslems the wait will probably be a very long one.

This forum is racist! Close it down.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 30 2018, 10:04 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 30 2018, 08:52 PM) *
This forum is racist! Close it down.

And Imperialist!

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 31 2018, 09:24 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 30 2018, 10:04 PM) *
And Imperialist!


And a waste of f***ing time to get anything done, but at least we can have a mutual rant which makes us feel better............Or does it?

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 31 2018, 02:34 PM

Have received a sympathetic reply from Richard Benyon in which he agrees with the consensus that the present situation is unacceptable.
Apparently The Animal Welfare Bill that was published in December and due for debate in the coming year stipulates that, along with other measures, that CCTV will be mandatory in ALL abattoirs.

Now like him or loathe him you have to admit he is doing something and we all need to show our support for his involvement. Any card carrying socialists on here know what Corbyn's view on this subject it?

Posted by: x2lls Feb 1 2018, 08:19 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 31 2018, 02:34 PM) *
Have received a sympathetic reply from Richard Benyon in which he agrees with the consensus that the present situation is unacceptable.
Apparently The Animal Welfare Bill that was published in December and due for debate in the coming year stipulates that, along with other measures, that CCTV will be mandatory in ALL abattoirs.

Now like him or loathe him you have to admit he is doing something and we all need to show our support for his involvement. Any card carrying socialists on here know what Corbyn's view on this subject it?


Would you be able to post the text?
That sounds encouraging.

Posted by: SirWilliam Feb 1 2018, 08:58 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Feb 1 2018, 08:19 PM) *
Would you be able to post the text?
That sounds encouraging.


As requested



Thank you for your email to Richard with the Daily Mirror link.
He has asked me to respond to say that this is unacceptable and should not be happening. As part of the draft Animal Welfare Bill, published in December and due to be debated in Parliament this year, CCTV will become mandatory in all abattoirs to ensure animals are treated humanely at the end of their lives. This should make it easier for agencies like the Food Standards Authority to monitor all abattoirs and stamp out abuses such as this.
Thank you for getting in touch.

Yours sincerely

Catherine


Catherine Haig
Senior Researcher for The Rt Hon Richard Benyon MP
Member of Parliament for Newbury

May be a small step but at least it is a step in the right direction.

Posted by: x2lls Feb 2 2018, 08:44 AM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 1 2018, 08:58 PM) *
As requested



Thank you for your email to Richard with the Daily Mirror link.
He has asked me to respond to say that this is unacceptable and should not be happening. As part of the draft Animal Welfare Bill, published in December and due to be debated in Parliament this year, CCTV will become mandatory in all abattoirs to ensure animals are treated humanely at the end of their lives. This should make it easier for agencies like the Food Standards Authority to monitor all abattoirs and stamp out abuses such as this.
Thank you for getting in touch.

Yours sincerely

Catherine


Catherine Haig
Senior Researcher for The Rt Hon Richard Benyon MP
Member of Parliament for Newbury

May be a small step but at least it is a step in the right direction.


Thank you for that.
Yes, a small step indeed.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 2 2018, 09:39 AM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 1 2018, 10:58 PM) *
As requested



Thank you for your email to Richard with the Daily Mirror link.
He has asked me to respond to say that this is unacceptable and should not be happening. As part of the draft Animal Welfare Bill, published in December and due to be debated in Parliament this year, CCTV will become mandatory in all abattoirs to ensure animals are treated humanely at the end of their lives. This should make it easier for agencies like the Food Standards Authority to monitor all abattoirs and stamp out abuses such as this.
Thank you for getting in touch.

Yours sincerely

Catherine


Catherine Haig
Senior Researcher for The Rt Hon Richard Benyon MP
Member of Parliament for Newbury

May be a small step but at least it is a step in the right direction.

Says the man who supports hunting with hounds etc. angry.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 2 2018, 10:44 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 2 2018, 09:39 AM) *
Says the man who supports hunting with hounds etc. angry.gif

Sometimes you need to dance with the Devil.

Posted by: SirWilliam Feb 2 2018, 11:20 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 2 2018, 09:39 AM) *
Says the man who supports hunting with hounds etc. angry.gif


Given the choice between being ripped apart by a pack of hounds or being hacked at by a grinning thug with a knife before being disemboweled while still conscious is a no brainer. Now I appreciate two wrongs don't make a right but at least the fox meets his maker very quickly.
If they didn't stop earths before every hunt then most foxes would be safely underground before the hounds got within half a mile.

Posted by: x2lls Feb 2 2018, 12:45 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 2 2018, 09:39 AM) *
Says the man who supports hunting with hounds etc. angry.gif



That may well be so, but it doesn't detract from a positive sign.

Posted by: Strafin Feb 2 2018, 01:12 PM

Benyon supports fox hunting, badger culling, and voted not to include the animal sentience clause in the recent vote about adopting EU guidelines into law.

Posted by: SirWilliam Feb 2 2018, 02:37 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 2 2018, 01:12 PM) *
Benyon supports fox hunting, badger culling, and voted not to include the animal sentience clause in the recent vote about adopting EU guidelines into law.


Had we adopted the EU directive on animal welfare we would be at the mercy of those who chose to follow their own agenda, (more bad than good), with little chance of changing it. By having our own parliament bring in legislation we have a chance of getting it right.
Remember the EU views it ok to throw donkeys off the church steeple as the local nuns wave their religious book.

I agree badger culling is abhorrent and eventually they will have to adopt a vaccination programme, ( cost issue again ). The evidence is now in front of them that the cull did not work but bovine tuberculosis is something we can not turn our back on in the hope that it will go away.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 2 2018, 03:24 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 2 2018, 02:37 PM) *
Had we adopted the EU directive on animal welfare we would be at the mercy of those who chose to follow their own agenda, (more bad than good), with little chance of changing it. By having our own parliament bring in legislation we have a chance of getting it right.
Remember the EU views it ok to throw donkeys off the church steeple as the local nuns wave their religious book.

I agree badger culling is abhorrent and eventually they will have to adopt a vaccination programme, ( cost issue again ). The evidence is now in front of them that the cull did not work but bovine tuberculosis is something we can not turn our back on in the hope that it will go away.


There isn't any edict in ANY religion calling for donkeys to be thrown from a roof. Purely 'Spanish practices'. We ought to be limiting immigration from Spain and imposing a boycott. Stop eating their vile out of season tomatoes or banking with averious outfits like Santandair.

Posted by: SirWilliam Feb 2 2018, 04:22 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Feb 2 2018, 03:24 PM) *
There isn't any edict in ANY religion calling for donkeys to be thrown from a roof. Purely 'Spanish practices'. We ought to be limiting immigration from Spain and imposing a boycott. Stop eating their vile out of season tomatoes or banking with averious outfits like Santandair.



Guess they do it because they can, not because their particular god says they have to. It is on a par with an extreme islamist blowing up women and children, their chosen one is not around to say "you shouldn't do that" so they deem it ok to go ahead.

I agree with submitting my protest via the wallet but that is not going to prevent it happening.

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 2 2018, 06:07 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Feb 2 2018, 03:24 PM) *
There isn't any edict in ANY religion calling for donkeys to be thrown from a roof. Purely 'Spanish practices'. We ought to be limiting immigration from Spain and imposing a boycott. Stop eating their vile out of season tomatoes or banking with averious outfits like Santandair.

But, the point your circumventing is that EU law is failing to stop the practice so either it's not fit for purpose or, more likely it's just Britain where EU laws are enforced, not Spain.

Posted by: SirWilliam Feb 2 2018, 06:59 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 2 2018, 06:07 PM) *
But, the point your circumventing is that EU law is failing to stop the practice so either it's not fit for purpose or, more likely it's just Britain where EU laws are enforced, not Spain.


Maybe we should throw a few remoners off the steeple while Jeremy Corbyn sits on a hypothetical fence trying to decide if they are sentient beings. No law against it as far as I can see apart from contravening the Environmental Protection Act 1990, but we can argue that it our cultural right as defined under the treaty of rome and so be it. cool.gif

Posted by: On the edge Feb 2 2018, 07:28 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 2 2018, 06:07 PM) *
But, the point your circumventing is that EU law is failing to stop the practice so either it's not fit for purpose or, more likely it's just Britain where EU laws are enforced, not Spain.


As ever; we always implemented and enforced EU law; whilst the rest if the community laughed its head off!

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 3 2018, 08:37 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Feb 2 2018, 05:24 PM) *
There isn't any edict in ANY religion calling for donkeys to be thrown from a roof. Purely 'Spanish practices'. We ought to be limiting immigration from Spain and imposing a boycott. Stop eating their vile out of season tomatoes or banking with averious outfits like Santandair.

Do you know what OTE you are right!!
I am currently with Santander and have been considering changing for some time.
Your comments have finally nudged me into taking action!!
TSB here I come!! smile.gif

Posted by: x2lls Feb 6 2018, 08:21 PM

Back on topic again, well, same knife, different target.
Posted Yesterday by @SurreyPolice for Today.

Tomorrow is International Day of Zero Tolerance for FGM. FGM is hugely under-reported and children are often fearful to report a crime committed by their family or community. Find your voice, let girls be girls and help fight against FGM

Surrey Police‏Verified account @SurreyPolice

We're saddened that a few people have taken this post as an opportunity to respond by posting Islamaphobic abuse. Please be aware that such responses are being reported to Twitter and will be passed onto our intelligence teams.

If you follow the tweets, you will see an overwhelming distrust of those in authority doing nothing.

Posted by: SirWilliam Feb 6 2018, 09:30 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Feb 6 2018, 08:21 PM) *
Back on topic again, well, same knife, different target.
Posted Yesterday by @SurreyPolice for Today.

Tomorrow is International Day of Zero Tolerance for FGM. FGM is hugely under-reported and children are often fearful to report a crime committed by their family or community. Find your voice, let girls be girls and help fight against FGM

Surrey Police‏Verified account @SurreyPolice

We're saddened that a few people have taken this post as an opportunity to respond by posting Islamaphobic abuse. Please be aware that such responses are being reported to Twitter and will be passed onto our intelligence teams.

If you follow the tweets, you will see an overwhelming distrust of those in authority doing nothing.


The mere thought of FGM is abhorrent. The fact that mothers/aunts are taking their charges on"holiday" in order to have this barbarism performed for no other reason than it is written in some medieval script is bad enough, but to then accuse those who express disgust as islamophobic does little to forward integration.
Like the lamb in the slaughterhouse the indignant view of the majority is meaningless to those who are suffering.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 6 2018, 10:34 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 6 2018, 09:30 PM) *
The mere thought of FGM is abhorrent. The fact that mothers/aunts are taking their charges on"holiday" in order to have this barbarism performed for no other reason than it is written in some medieval script is bad enough, but to then accuse those who express disgust as islamophobic does little to forward integration.
Like the lamb in the slaughterhouse the indignant view of the majority is meaningless to those who are suffering.


I dont believe in a higher being so Islam has no meaning to me or indeed Christianity or any other fairy in the sky. Does that mean it is Islamophobic to criticise practioners of FGM or indeed Christianophobic to criticise paedophile priests? Oh... Its ok to criticise paedophile priests and quite right too. I'd personally see something nasty to happen to them. Just treat all crimes as that.... Crimes. No good comes out of letting minorities or smaller religious groups off. It just emboldens them. A crime is a crime is a crime. White, Black, or Brown.

Posted by: Strafin Feb 7 2018, 12:16 AM

It is islamaphobic to criticise Muslims over FGM becaise it's not a Muslim problem. It's practised by plenty of backwards people who all believe in different made up deities.

Posted by: x2lls Feb 7 2018, 01:55 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 12:16 AM) *
It is islamaphobic to criticise Muslims over FGM becaise it's not a Muslim problem. It's practised by plenty of backwards people who all believe in different made up deities.



FGM has been illegal in this country for a long time, yet the quota of convictions against the estimated number of victims is very low. The law is the law regardless of which fairy or not you believe in.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 7 2018, 05:23 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 12:16 AM) *
It is islamaphobic to criticise Muslims over FGM becaise it's not a Muslim problem. It's practised by plenty of backwards people who all believe in different made up deities.


You are part of the problem. People associate Islam with it because its is predominantly practiced by Muslims.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_female_genital_mutilation

But you cant criticise Muslims because it "does not compute".
I work with a black South African girl and she said that life was better under De Klerk back home because although it was apartheid and he was a corrupt, he did leave the black population with enough to get by, it pales into insignificance with the current regime who are completley corrupt and have left the black population with absolutely nothing. If a white person said that we would be strung up. But hey keep that head in the sand.👍

Posted by: Strafin Feb 7 2018, 07:09 AM

"There is a widespread view among practitioners of female genital muatilation (FGM) that it is a religious requirement, although there is no unequivocal link between the practice and religion"

The first line of the link you've posted suggests otherwise. Also I didn't say Muslims don't do it, I said it is not exclusively Muslim. Perhaps if your inbred boss eyes weren't swivelling around so much you would read and comprehend a little better. Honestly I met you once and thought you were alright, what happened?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 7 2018, 07:18 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 07:09 AM) *
"There is a widespread view among practitioners of female genital muatilation (FGM) that it is a religious requirement, although there is no unequivocal link between the practice and religion"

The first line of the link you've posted suggests otherwise. Also I didn't say Muslims don't do it, I said it is not exclusively Muslim. Perhaps if your inbred boss eyes weren't swivelling around so much you would read and comprehend a little better. Honestly I met you once and thought you were alright, what happened?


I very much doubt you have ever met me or indeed have a clue who I am!😂

Posted by: Strafin Feb 7 2018, 07:42 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 7 2018, 07:18 AM) *
I very much doubt you have ever met me or indeed have a clue who I am!��

I thought you were at the meet up we had some years ago at the hogshead? Could be wrong but it's not important. In fact it's better because you're a horrible person. And the person I met there seemed ok.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 7 2018, 07:46 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 07:42 AM) *
I thought you were at the meet up we had some years ago at the hogshead? Could be wrong but it's not important. In fact it's better because you're a horrible person. And theboerson I met there seemed ok.

Dear god. How old are you? 3? I'm "hoirible" because my views differ?😂

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 7 2018, 08:10 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 7 2018, 07:46 AM) *
Dear god. How old are you? 3? I'm "hoirible" because my views differ?😂

I donít think you are a horrible person as I donít know who you are, but some of your views are ugly and rely on anecdotal evidence, which is a weak form of proof.

Posted by: Strafin Feb 7 2018, 08:19 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 7 2018, 07:46 AM) *
Dear god. How old are you? 3? I'm "hoirible" because my views differ?��

No I think youre horrible because of the language you use, because of the way you present your arguments and belittle anyone who has different views to you. I can tell from the words use and the your opinions that you're older, probably in your sixties and definetly male. That doest matter so much but you build a picture and I bet I'm not far off. So I don't know you personally but based on what you put here I don't think much of you. I disagree with plenty on here and it's not a problem.

Posted by: SirWilliam Feb 7 2018, 09:52 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 08:19 AM) *
No I think youre horrible because of the language you use, because of the way you present your arguments and belittle anyone who has different views to you. I can tell from the words use and the your opinions that you're older, probably in your sixties and definetly male. That doest matter so much but you build a picture and I bet I'm not far off. So I don't know you personally but based on what you put here I don't think much of you. I disagree with plenty on here and it's not a problem.


Another valid argument for euthanasia of the over 60s. wink.gif Must admit I am at odds with anyone who attacks an individual because of their age, political leaning, colour, religion, football team, dog etc, yet have trouble arguing their position from an intellectual base.

Please leave personal comments to those who know no better.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 7 2018, 11:29 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 12:16 AM) *
It is islamaphobic to criticise Muslims over FGM becaise it's not a Muslim problem. It's practised by plenty of backwards people who all believe in different made up deities.

But, whilst there is nothing in the quran that makes it a requirement under Islam, indeed some scholars proclaim it as unIslamic it is practiced predominantly within Muslim societies, and worldwide is only practiced within or adjacent to Muslim communities. So easy mistake to make.

Posted by: SirWilliam Feb 7 2018, 12:23 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 7 2018, 11:29 AM) *
But, whilst there is nothing in the quran that makes it a requirement under Islam, indeed some scholars proclaim it as unIslamic it is practiced predominantly within Muslim societies, and worldwide is only practiced within or adjacent to Muslim communities. So easy mistake to make.


There is a wider issue here in as much as the islamic doctrine goes out of the way to demean women, from arranged marriage to making them walk 2 steps behind their male family, from covering them completely in clothes to inflicting the topic subject in order to suppress their sexuality. Yes it occurs in non muslim communities but the process is concentrated in N.Africa and the Middle East. Even the Jews chop a chunk off their young boys because of some tooth fairy teaching.


Posted by: Strafin Feb 7 2018, 01:00 PM

Stone me. Not literally, but it looks like we have some common ground.

Posted by: SirWilliam Feb 7 2018, 03:18 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 01:00 PM) *
Stone me. Not literally, but it looks like we have some common ground.


I think it safe to assume we are all in agreement that cruelty, however supposedly justified, in all it's forms is never acceptable, and only standing as one on the issue will the agenda get forwarded.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 7 2018, 03:34 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 6 2018, 10:34 PM) *
I dont believe in a higher being so Islam has no meaning to me or indeed Christianity or any other fairy in the sky. Does that mean it is Islamophobic to criticise practioners of FGM or indeed Christianophobic to criticise paedophile priests? Oh... Its ok to criticise paedophile priests and quite right too. I'd personally see something nasty to happen to them. Just treat all crimes as that.... Crimes. No good comes out of letting minorities or smaller religious groups off. It just emboldens them. A crime is a crime is a crime. White, Black, or Brown.


Quite so. Just as much as we still listen to pop music, watch Hollywood films inspite of the abhorrent practices of a few of the senior practitioners. Nonetheless, social behaviour dictates that the current hate goat gets the blame, i.e. Back in the day influential communist agents were the big bogie, Blunt, Philby, etc, yet dear Mrs T. banned trades unions rather than Cambridge graduates, a common thread with them.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 7 2018, 08:18 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Feb 7 2018, 08:10 AM) *
I donít think you are a horrible person as I donít know who you are, but some of your views are ugly and rely on anecdotal evidence, which is a weak form of proof.

Whether you feel they are ugly or not I presume you would agree that anyone has the right to express such a view as long as they are not breaking any laws. I do think these safe spaces and the like at uni are a disaster. How can you learn to debate and disagree, key in business if you stop people you disagree with from expressing said view.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 7 2018, 08:22 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 08:19 AM) *
No I think youre horrible because of the language you use, because of the way you present your arguments and belittle anyone who has different views to you. I can tell from the words use and the your opinions that you're older, probably in your sixties and definetly male. That doest matter so much but you build a picture and I bet I'm not far off. So I don't know you personally but based on what you put here I don't think much of you. I disagree with plenty on here and it's not a problem.

You are quite wrong but hey you can think what you like. Its called a forum. And by the way you think I am horrible. Im fine with that. I think you are probably male, in your early 20s and still living with Mummy and Daddy. But then I'm probably wrong as well.👍😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 7 2018, 09:10 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 7 2018, 08:22 PM) *
You are quite wrong but hey you can think what you like. Its called a forum. And by the way you think I am horrible. Im fine with that. I think you are probably male, in your early 20s and still living with Mummy and Daddy. But then I'm probably wrong as well.👍😂

Don't forget, we all live on planet snowflake now dry.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 7 2018, 09:17 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 7 2018, 09:10 PM) *
Don't forget, we all live on planet snowflake now dry.gif


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ocs5O2Gu7BU

😂

Posted by: Strafin Feb 7 2018, 09:22 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 7 2018, 09:10 PM) *
Don't forget, we all live on planet snowflake now dry.gif

Nah just the generation we have now have seen what dickks the previous generation has been. We're not putting up with it anymore. Baby boomers I'm referring to mainly.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 7 2018, 09:26 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 09:22 PM) *
Nah just the generation we have now have seen what dickks the previous generation has been. We're not putting up with it anymore. Baby boomers I'm referring to mainly.

Just as the next generation will look at you and think, "who is this enormous bell end?"

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 7 2018, 09:27 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 09:22 PM) *
Nah just the generation we have now have seen what dickks the previous generation has been. We're not putting up with it anymore. Baby boomers I'm referring to mainly.


Lets hope the old timers leave all hard earned money to charity and not snowflake kids.😂👍




Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 7 2018, 09:28 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 7 2018, 09:17 PM) *
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ocs5O2Gu7BU

😂

Hilarious and sad in equal measure.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 7 2018, 09:29 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 7 2018, 09:28 PM) *
Hilarious and sad in equal measure.

Unemployable.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 7 2018, 09:34 PM

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/blind-man-scared-of-dogs-to-get-uks-first-guide-horse-11239836

And the best part is, if it doesn't work out he can always hang it upside down and slash it's throat. Win win.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 7 2018, 09:40 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 7 2018, 09:34 PM) *
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/blind-man-scared-of-dogs-to-get-uks-first-guide-horse-11239836

And the best part is, if it doesn't work out he can always hang it upside down and slash it's throat. Win win.


Surely this is animal cruelty? Its a bl00dy 🐎. Can't see it living a happy life without green fields and somewhere to run.😞

I'm no fan of dogs either but I cant see a labrador ripping my throat out.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 8 2018, 02:32 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 09:22 PM) *
Nah just the generation we have now have seen what dickks the previous generation has been. We're not putting up with it anymore. Baby boomers I'm referring to mainly.

Like this shining example?
https://youtu.be/cmkn_1TchFQ

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 8 2018, 02:38 AM

Jeremy Corbyn's dream child:
https://youtu.be/hQoVBVPetrc

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 8 2018, 05:23 AM

Your beard is the wrong length, unbeliever!

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 01:00 PM) *
Stone me.

Allah be praised!

Posted by: On the edge Feb 8 2018, 07:05 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 7 2018, 08:18 PM) *
Whether you feel they are ugly or not I presume you would agree that anyone has the right to express such a view as long as they are not breaking any laws. I do think these safe spaces and the like at uni are a disaster. How can you learn to debate and disagree, key in business if you stop people you disagree with from expressing said view.


That's a fascinating response!

Posted by: On the edge Feb 8 2018, 07:11 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 09:22 PM) *
Nah just the generation we have now have seen what dickks the previous generation has been. We're not putting up with it anymore. Baby boomers I'm referring to mainly.


Yes, certainly in academic circles that's now an accepted reality; truly the years the locusts have eaten.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 8 2018, 08:40 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 7 2018, 10:22 PM) *
You are quite wrong but hey you can think what you like. Its called a forum. And by the way you think I am horrible. Im fine with that. I think you are probably male, in your early 20s and still living with Mummy and Daddy. But then I'm probably wrong as well.����

Well, yes................you're both wrong!! wink.gif wink.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 8 2018, 09:17 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 7 2018, 08:18 PM) *
Whether you feel they are ugly or not I presume you would agree that anyone has the right to express such a view as long as they are not breaking any laws. I do think these safe spaces and the like at uni are a disaster. How can you learn to debate and disagree, key in business if you stop people you disagree with from expressing said view.

Completely agree; I am cynical of PCism, but I draw the line at bullying, which is were a lot of misguided views lead to.

Anecdotal evidence proves nothing.

Posted by: Strafin Feb 8 2018, 10:00 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 8 2018, 08:40 AM) *
Well, yes................you're both wrong!! wink.gif wink.gif

****! Oh well at least someone believed I was youthful. Even if it was for entirely the wrong reasons.

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 9 2018, 04:12 PM

Another shining beacon of yoof culture:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/09/youtube-logan-paul-dead-rat-taser-video-google

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 9 2018, 04:30 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 9 2018, 04:12 PM) *
Another shining beacon of yoof culture:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/09/youtube-logan-paul-dead-rat-taser-video-google

That's what I'm talking about! laugh.gif

Posted by: x2lls Feb 14 2018, 11:38 PM

I wonder if it stretches to Halal or Kosher?

[attachment=255:halalnope.jpg]

Oh look, not one mention of either. We can't lose voters can we?

https://labour.org.uk/issues/animal-welfare-plan/

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 15 2018, 07:23 AM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Feb 14 2018, 11:38 PM) *
I wonder if it stretches to Halal or Kosher?

[attachment=255:halalnope.jpg]

Oh look, not one mention of either. We can't lose voters can we?

https://labour.org.uk/issues/animal-welfare-plan/


Makes you ill. The virtue signalling. White rich man bad. Brown man good. Imagine the outrage if it had been a picture of animals getting slaughtered without being stunned. Not outrage about the animals. Just outrage that they dare crititicise a practice perceived to be carried out by a certain religion.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 15 2018, 09:03 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 15 2018, 07:23 AM) *
Makes you ill. The virtue signalling. White rich man bad. Brown man good. Imagine the outrage if it had been a picture of animals getting slaughtered without being stunned. Not outrage about the animals. Just outrage that they dare crititicise a practice perceived to be carried out by a certain religion.

Cobblers

Posted by: SirWilliam Feb 15 2018, 09:21 AM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Feb 14 2018, 11:38 PM) *
I wonder if it stretches to Halal or Kosher?

[attachment=255:halalnope.jpg]

Oh look, not one mention of either. We can't lose voters can we?

https://labour.org.uk/issues/animal-welfare-plan/


Having trawled through the large print I have asked for clarification on the slaughter issue. Having a camera in the corner may stop a bit of the thuggery that is occuring, ( what price the thing is "broken" on inspection day ), but if the animal is still being skinned alive it is pointless . Will be interesting to see how this pans out in the wider debate.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 15 2018, 09:33 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Feb 15 2018, 09:03 AM) *
Cobblers


Because labour don't do virtue signalling?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43031441


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