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> Second referendum
newres
post May 15 2019, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 15 2019, 09:00 PM) *
Some people will have voted Tory or Labour all their life and will continue to do so whether they be remain or leave. The last EU election turnout was 34%.. what's your guess? I am going for 57%...

I couldnít guess but I think more or less whatever percentage votes Brexit is the absolute maximum perverse have for a no deal exit. They are highly motivated to vote. Much more so than moderate thinking folk.

I see what JSC was referring to now. Stephen Barclay. He misses the second referendum option. Surely that is more palatable than revoking. I donít think revoking is the correct path without a vote.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 15 2019, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ May 15 2019, 09:22 PM) *
I couldnít guess but I think more or less whatever percentage votes Brexit is the absolute maximum perverse have for a no deal exit. They are highly motivated to vote. Much more so than moderate thinking folk.

I see what JSC was referring to now. Stephen Barclay. He misses the second referendum option. Surely that is more palatable than revoking. I donít think revoking is the correct path without a vote.


This is the rub.. For me you accept the first vote, implement and then in a few years see how things are panning out. If it's a complete disaster (which a lot of remainers seem to want strangely) then OK, accept we can't be a sovereign nation anymore, sign up to the EURO and abolish parliament and be ruled completely by Brussels... this half in half out thing we are doing at the moment is expensive and confusing to Joe Public.
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newres
post May 15 2019, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 15 2019, 09:29 PM) *
This is the rub.. For me you accept the first vote, implement and then in a few years see how things are panning out. If it's a complete disaster (which a lot of remainers seem to want strangely) then OK, accept we can't be a sovereign nation anymore, sign up to the EURO and abolish parliament and be ruled completely by Brussels... this half in half out thing we are doing at the moment is expensive and confusing to Joe Public.

But we are sovereign nation and we arenít ruled by Brussels. Itís such an odd way of thinking. I just donít get it. I get that some people donít like foreigners but I canít understand how anyone can think weíre ruled by Brussels. I could get how a less influential country might feel that way (although not true) but weíre right at the heart of Brussels and incredibly influential.

Entering into negotiations is accepting the first vote but itís been a disaster from beginning to end. Call another referendum and see what people want to do. What people believed they were voting for canít be delivered. The country is a mess. British Steel looks likely to be a massive casualty imminently.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 15 2019, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ May 15 2019, 10:12 PM) *
But we are sovereign nation and we arenít ruled by Brussels. Itís such an odd way of thinking. I just donít get it. I get that some people donít like foreigners but I canít understand how anyone can think weíre ruled by Brussels. I could get how a less influential country might feel that way (although not true) but weíre right at the heart of Brussels and incredibly influential.

Entering into negotiations is accepting the first vote but itís been a disaster from beginning to end. Call another referendum and see what people want to do. What people believed they were voting for canít be delivered. The country is a mess. British Steel looks likely to be a massive casualty imminently.


But British Steel are a big polluter... your arguments sometimes contradict... surely you want this polluter closed down??? You seem to want to have your cake and eat it. Hard choices we face... PS I don't consider anyone a "foreigner" as you so eloquently put it. We are all single organisms living on a delicate planet. Doesn't mean I want some flu type viruses around me. Sounds crass but said statement applies to all humans (nothing to do with colour, race, religion or sexual preference). I like nice hard working decent people that pay taxes and are law abiding. I understand that some people need a bit more help and I do help financially where I can...it's more than some do.🙄
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je suis Charlie
post May 16 2019, 07:10 AM
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Corpse, Rotting, Shackled.

"Eurostat figures show output in the 19 countries sharing the euro fell by 0.3 percent on the month, in line with market expectations, with the second and third largest economies in the area leading the loss. The monthly fall also follows a decrease on the previous month, when production fell 0.1 percent in February. France saw production decline by 1.0 percent in March, while Italy recorded a fall of 0.9 percent in the same month. The shift down in gear followed increases in the two previous months in both countries."


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QUOTE (newres @ Jan 25 2019, 06:47 AM) *
Isnít it obvious?
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Strafin
post May 16 2019, 07:35 AM
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One of the reasons I questioned evidence and started the whole "linky thing" discussion back along, was because of things like this. You seem able to copy and paste a quote (supposedly) from an internet source, and you can copy and paste links, because I have seen you do it. So why are you so selective when you are trying to cite things as a fact like what you wrote above? Is it not a quote? Is it a lie? Ir is there just more to it?
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je suis Charlie
post May 16 2019, 09:30 AM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ May 16 2019, 08:35 AM) *
One of the reasons I questioned evidence and started the whole "linky thing" discussion back along, was because of things like this. You seem able to copy and paste a quote (supposedly) from an internet source, and you can copy and paste links, because I have seen you do it. So why are you so selective when you are trying to cite things as a fact like what you wrote above? Is it not a quote? Is it a lie? Ir is there just more to it?

I post what's relevant, some people here simply don't have the wherewithal to open a link and read a whole report.


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QUOTE (newres @ Jan 25 2019, 06:47 AM) *
Isnít it obvious?
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newres
post May 16 2019, 01:40 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 16 2019, 10:30 AM) *
I post what's relevant, some people here simply don't have the wherewithal to open a link and read a whole report.

What link?
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je suis Charlie
post May 18 2019, 01:11 PM
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Well, the "big two" votes might change now, as the Conservatives have finally launched their EPE campaign (six days before the election), and Labour's mailshots have been arriving.
Labour seems to think it's a General Election, because its pamphlet is full of what they'd do here in the UK, like more money for policing, reversing "reckless and unnecessary Tory cuts" (mentioned twice in two pages) and making Britain fairer... none of which it can do even if it gets every MEP the UK can return. It mentions the EU ONCE, with a single sentence that says change the deal, or a General Election, or a second referendum.
It also promises to unite the country, which is hilarious as half of the country is opposed to the other half, and Corbyn can't even unite his socks with his feet, much less his own party, uniting e country is a pipe dream.
I think Labour has got used to, and actually prefers, being in opposition. After Blair and Brown did a Mercer Frey on the vaults 15 years ago perhaps they've realised they can't actually wield any power without ******* everything up, and they just want to sit on the sidelines yelling about how **** everyone else is at doing it - which is why they've got the vacillating grandpa up front and push out weak **** like this while Farage waves his dogwhistle about.


--------------------
QUOTE (newres @ Jan 25 2019, 06:47 AM) *
Isnít it obvious?
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 18 2019, 02:05 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 18 2019, 02:11 PM) *
Well, the "big two" votes might change now, as the Conservatives have finally launched their EPE campaign (six days before the election), and Labour's mailshots have been arriving.
Labour seems to think it's a General Election, because its pamphlet is full of what they'd do here in the UK, like more money for policing, reversing "reckless and unnecessary Tory cuts" (mentioned twice in two pages) and making Britain fairer... none of which it can do even if it gets every MEP the UK can return. It mentions the EU ONCE, with a single sentence that says change the deal, or a General Election, or a second referendum.
It also promises to unite the country, which is hilarious as half of the country is opposed to the other half, and Corbyn can't even unite his socks with his feet, much less his own party, uniting e country is a pipe dream.
I think Labour has got used to, and actually prefers, being in opposition. After Blair and Brown did a Mercer Frey on the vaults 15 years ago perhaps they've realised they can't actually wield any power without ******* everything up, and they just want to sit on the sidelines yelling about how **** everyone else is at doing it - which is why they've got the vacillating grandpa up front and push out weak **** like this while Farage waves his dogwhistle about.


Will you vote JSC?
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je suis Charlie
post May 18 2019, 03:31 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 18 2019, 03:05 PM) *
Will you vote JSC?

I have rarely missed a vote, I think it's a dereliction of ones civic duty not to engage in the process.


--------------------
QUOTE (newres @ Jan 25 2019, 06:47 AM) *
Isnít it obvious?
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Mr Brown
post May 18 2019, 03:49 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 18 2019, 04:31 PM) *
I have rarely missed a vote, I think it's a dereliction of ones civic duty not to engage in the process.


Very good advice; which I'll certainly follow.
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SirWilliam
post May 18 2019, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 18 2019, 02:11 PM) *
Well, the "big two" votes might change now, as the Conservatives have finally launched their EPE campaign (six days before the election), and Labour's mailshots have been arriving.
Labour seems to think it's a General Election, because its pamphlet is full of what they'd do here in the UK, like more money for policing, reversing "reckless and unnecessary Tory cuts" (mentioned twice in two pages) and making Britain fairer... none of which it can do even if it gets every MEP the UK can return. It mentions the EU ONCE, with a single sentence that says change the deal, or a General Election, or a second referendum.
It also promises to unite the country, which is hilarious as half of the country is opposed to the other half, and Corbyn can't even unite his socks with his feet, much less his own party, uniting e country is a pipe dream.
I think Labour has got used to, and actually prefers, being in opposition. After Blair and Brown did a Mercer Frey on the vaults 15 years ago perhaps they've realised they can't actually wield any power without ******* everything up, and they just want to sit on the sidelines yelling about how **** everyone else is at doing it - which is why they've got the vacillating grandpa up front and push out weak **** like this while Farage waves his dogwhistle about.


Labour are akin to the proverbial dog in a manger. Even they must appreciate that we have never had a labour government that left the country in a better position when they were voted out than they inherited. The tories on the other hand are only too aware of this and with the odd exception have used it as a spare ace up the sleeve. This european x in the box jobbie is a thermometer to the forthcoming general election, (whenever that is supposed to be?). Labour voters will vote labour or ukip/brexit, conservative voters will vote tory or ukip/brexit, the libs will collect a few disillusioned crumbs and along with the greens and claim some form of pyrrhic victory.
Anyway my postal vote helps the royal mail and political journalists are guaranteed a job for a bit longer.


--------------------
Si non prius succederent.......... relinquere
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 18 2019, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ May 18 2019, 05:03 PM) *
Labour are akin to the proverbial dog in a manger. Even they must appreciate that we have never had a labour government that left the country in a better position when they were voted out than they inherited. The tories on the other hand are only too aware of this and with the odd exception have used it as a spare ace up the sleeve. This european x in the box jobbie is a thermometer to the forthcoming general election, (whenever that is supposed to be?). Labour voters will vote labour or ukip/brexit, conservative voters will vote tory or ukip/brexit, the libs will collect a few disillusioned crumbs and along with the greens and claim some form of pyrrhic victory.
Anyway my postal vote helps the royal mail and political journalists are guaranteed a job for a bit longer.

I'm no great fan of Farage but I will be voting for the Brexit party..

2 main reasons

#democracy
#eumafia

If Brexit is cancelled or revoked it will cause untold damage.
Many people will never vote again.

If Brexit go's ahead it may result in short term pain.

I prefer the short term pain...

The main thing is we all have 1 vote and we should aĺl use it. Don't moan about the outcome if you don't!!!
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newres
post May 18 2019, 06:53 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 18 2019, 06:46 PM) *
I'm no great fan of Farage but I will be voting for the Brexit party..

2 main reasons

#democracy
#eumafia

If Brexit is cancelled or revoked it will cause untold damage.
Many people will never vote again.

If Brexit go's ahead it may result in short term pain.

I prefer the short term pain...

The main thing is we all have 1 vote and we should aĺl use it. Don't moan about the outcome if you don't!!!

To be honest those threatening to never vote again might actually not be a bad thing.
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newres
post May 18 2019, 07:03 PM
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On a serious note. Does it occur to anyone else that if May goes but secures her WA with a confirmatory referendum, BJ might be delighted with that? As it stands whatever happens thereís no way the Tories are electable and the further to the right they go, the less electable they become. A referendum would draw a line and BJ could blame May for it all. Obviously things still wonít be brilliant but a hard Brexit and the damage even the Brexit party accepts is inevitable will kill the Tories.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 18 2019, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ May 18 2019, 08:03 PM) *
On a serious note. Does it occur to anyone else that if May goes but secures her WA with a confirmatory referendum, BJ might be delighted with that? As it stands whatever happens thereís no way the Tories are electable and the further to the right they go, the less electable they become. A referendum would draw a line and BJ could blame May for it all. Obviously things still wonít be brilliant but a hard Brexit and the damage even the Brexit party accepts is inevitable will kill the Tories.


May should never have been in charge. Worst Prime Minister since Blair..the only good thing she did was what she didn't do..start a pointless war...
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 18 2019, 07:39 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ May 18 2019, 07:53 PM) *
To be honest those threatening to never vote again might actually not be a bad thing.

I agree. Only people that have the correct "approved" opinions should be aĺlowed to vote .. people with the wrong opinion should be removed from all social media for spreading disinformation that is against the approved ideals.... 🤔
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newres
post May 18 2019, 07:43 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 18 2019, 08:35 PM) *
May should never have been in charge. Worst Prime Minister since Blair..the only good thing she did was what she didn't do..start a pointless war...

Blair was an outstandingly successful PM other than Iraq.
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newres
post May 18 2019, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 18 2019, 08:39 PM) *
I agree. Only people that have the correct "approved" opinions should be aĺlowed to vote .. people with the wrong opinion should be removed from all social media for spreading disinformation that is against the approved ideals.... 🤔

Well a basic level of literacy should be required. Donít worry, youíd just about scrape through.
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