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Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 28 2012, 08:46 AM

Very sad when I expect a small minority of people cannot respect a building of such historical importance.

Posted by: Timbo Aug 28 2012, 08:51 AM

It's a gate. Probably saves on the need for a gatekeeper.

Posted by: blackdog Aug 28 2012, 09:07 AM

I think it's more about the new owner of the house not wanting his drive used at all hours so he has decided to put in a new gate to enforce the long standing car park timings. Can't say as I blame him.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Aug 28 2012, 10:35 AM

As I read the story it is about the owner of Donnington Castle House, "former Vodafone chief executive and current chairman of GlaxoSmithKline, Sir Christopher Gent" asking English Heritage to install a new gate to stop people using the English Heritage car park outside of what the article says is the car park opening hours of 9.30am until 6.30pm. It's not clear from the article why Sir Christopher wants English Heritage to lock its car park but my guess is because in some way it's inconvenient for him, but if locking the car park is going to inconvenience existing users of the castle and grounds as the article says it will then I don't see that English Heritage should be doing anything - their duty is to preserve our heritage for our enjoyment.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 10:41 AM

Hear. hear. He wants, he pays. 18:30 is ridiculously early for summer months. I remember going to the castle quite regularly when I first learnt to drive. Back then, one could go there 'till quite late. I understand that pedestrian access will remain.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 11:46 AM

Their duty is to preserve our heritage - by installing a gate that stops lead theives is doing just that.

If the gates are electronically controlled they'll be able to have longer hours in the summer.

Judging by the amount of crap & fast food detritus left in the car park & the burn marks to the grass, those using the car park after dark are only their to cause a nuisance.

Posted by: Strafin Aug 28 2012, 11:55 AM

*thieves *there

Can we all stop with the grammar and spelling errors now - nobody is perfect.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 11:57 AM

Well spotted.

You win the prize.

Posted by: Strafin Aug 28 2012, 12:03 PM

Yay! Is the prize the key to electronic gate?

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 12:21 PM

I'm sceptical that this will have the effect of stopping all that.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Aug 28 2012, 12:34 PM

It wasn't clear from the article that the metal thefts were from the castle building - weren't the thefts from Donnington Castle House?

"crap & fast food detritus" and "burn marks to the grass" says to me that people are parking on the grass to eat fast-food, and that you're making some value-judgement on their right to enjoy the castle grounds. I suggest that English Heritage need to think what they're doing wrong and how they can better engage with the whole social spectrum of their current site users. Simply excluding a problem demographic creates yet more alienation and disenfranchisement, the very problems you're complaining about.

Posted by: worried Aug 28 2012, 01:13 PM

To limit access to Donnington Castle car park would be a retrograde step, I use it from time to time and would support others in their plea to ensure that the gate is opened at 7am and closed at say 9pm in the summer months let's say April to September and say 7 am to 6:30pm during the winter say October to March. I am aware that the lead was stolen from the roof of the castle about 4 years ago and the gates being locked would probably have prevented this. Any other exclusion would smack of just that --- exclusivity.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 01:18 PM

Enjoy the castle grounds at 2am? Everyone should be excluded from the grounds during the hours of darkness. Common sense really.


The lightning conductor was taken from the castle.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 01:19 PM

Me too - the gates would just be forced / cut.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 01:20 PM

Can this be verified? I can find nothing on the Internet to support this. I have read about The Castle pub having lead theft problems and Shaw House, but not the Castle itself. Wondering how tenacious 'metal thieves' are, I doubt a gate would trouble them much.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 01:22 PM

The metal theft is only part of the problem.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 01:23 PM

But that isn't what is being proposed. Hence the scepticism about the reasons for the gate.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 01:24 PM

I realise that, but vandalism to the castle itself is a much bigger issue than a bit of charred lawn or take-way bags. Especially if the proposal is unlikely to stop any of that.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 01:34 PM

I'd not like unsavoury behaviour just over the boundary of my property either. I doubt anyone would. There are several places where late night 'activity' results in mess & annoyance for others.

A gate, on a timer, would certainly stop some of the activity.

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 28 2012, 01:39 PM

I agree, peoples attitudes to litter is disgusting. If they abuse it they should lose it. Simple.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 02:26 PM

But it ain't simple; not everyone abuses it. In fact I would suspect few abuse it.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 02:29 PM

That is true but I'm not sure that is for EH to police.


It might reduce it some, but I doubt it will stop it. There will still be pedestrian access.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 02:36 PM

If it is on property under their care I'm sure they'd be interested.

Aye, those midnight hikers can cause a real mess.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 02:53 PM

Of course they would be interested, but anti-social behaviour is usually dealt by authorities like the police.


Maybe not, but the ones during the opening hours (and the proposed extended hours) can.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 03:03 PM

If I complained to the police about cars & pedestrians using my drive in the middle of the night I suspect they'd tell me to get a gate.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 03:11 PM

They'd suggest you do, but they cannot refuse to help if you don't.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 03:15 PM

No, but they might not have manpower available, especially in the countryside. So a gate would be the most sensible answer.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Aug 28 2012, 03:25 PM

The sign at the castle says it's accessable at any reasonable daylight hour. Where has the idea come from that the car park needs to be locked from 6.30 pm to 9.30 am?

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 03:28 PM

That is what the old sign used to say. That the gates were locked from 6:30 - ie the sign was a warning against being locked in overnight.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Aug 28 2012, 03:36 PM

Right, so the car park used to be locked 1830-0930 before the old gate broke, and since then the castle has been officially open in daylight hours but in practice it's been open outside that too because the gate is broken. So why not an electronic gate that opens for daylight hours - that's what the dog-walkers are asking for and it seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise.

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 28 2012, 04:13 PM

All calls to the police are graded and they will not continue to attend ad infinitum in respect of a minor complaint. An example is a faulty house alarm that keeps going off at an empty premises.

They would, quite reasonably, expect the property owner to do something about the problem themselves if possible.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 04:35 PM

If the problem was cars being a nuisance, then a gate is a reasonable idea, but it seems from the examples given that it is what people do up there (rather than the car use) that is the issue. Things that can occur any time by people with or without a car.

Posted by: Jayjay Aug 28 2012, 04:40 PM

As the gate would be made of metal, wouldn't they just take the gate?

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 04:45 PM

Yes, but the people who do what they do get there by car. We're are not talking about people who park up & then walk to have their fun.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 04:46 PM

Steel ( thank god ) isn't currently worth nicking.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 04:52 PM

But the examples of ASBs are ones that can happen during the day as well. Like I said, if it is a case of cars being a nuisance, then fair enough.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 28 2012, 04:55 PM

In an obtuse mood today?

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 28 2012, 05:01 PM

There could be all sorts of crime going on, but repeated calls to a simple "trespass" on a driveway (as in the example) will not be high on the agenda for response. If a witness reports something serious going on, then, of course, an immediate response should be expected.

I doubt the castle and grounds could be "Enclosed Premises" as defined in the old Vagrancy Act.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 05:01 PM

Perhaps it would be good to hear of what sort nocturnal nuisance occurs.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Aug 28 2012, 07:07 PM

Not at all, just working the problem on its given facts. The complaint was about litter (provocatively described as anti-social behaviour) and stolen lead from the roof of the castle, but I can't find any reference to the lead going missing from the roof of the keep on either the English Haritage web site or Newbury Today, and I'd have expected such a theft to have been reported. So if it's just a couple of McDonald's wrappers then I don't see what the fuss is all about. If there's something else going on then it would have been useful to report that, and it's reasonable to assume in the absence of that report then there isn't anything else.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 07:17 PM

Although the lightning strip might have been lifted, it seems the last time any lead was stolen from the castle was by Parliament.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Aug 28 2012, 07:21 PM

Posted by: blackdog Aug 28 2012, 07:44 PM

Something like 30-40% of the roof was deleaded a few years ago - when I was on the roof a couple of years back much of it was covered by roofing felt (same as my garden shed).

The gate is (as far as I can see) being installed by the new owner of Donnington Castle House (Chris Gent) - to restrict access over his property (the road up to the castle is the drive to the house) to that agreed in the past. English Heritage are very happy about it according to the statement given in the newspaper article.

When the gate is closed there is still access to the castle using the pedestrian gate.

When I first came to Newbury the gate was always closed and locked at 6.30pm - I was never there early enough to say when it was opened. That would be when Parker-Bowles owned the house. In between there has been another owner who evidently wasn't so worried about cars coming and going at all hours.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 07:57 PM

I know in the early 80s it was possible to drive there and we would occasionally do so to listen to the car radio and watch shooting stars across the sky. This would have been about 22:00 on a Friday.

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 28 2012, 08:08 PM

That sounds quite romantic.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 08:34 PM

We would also go to Beacon Hill for similar reasons. Sometimes we would also go to Heston Services for food after the pub as well. Perhaps you'd like to belittle that as well?

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 28 2012, 08:57 PM

Did the pub not serve food? I thought Heston services was on the M4.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 28 2012, 09:08 PM

not in the evening of the ones I'd go to, but to be fair, it was just an excuse for something to do after the pub shut. Not far off the same time TV went off-air in the evenings! Those were the days in the early 80s.

Posted by: JeffG Aug 29 2012, 07:57 AM

Instead of a gate, why not install rising bollards?

Posted by: Timbo Aug 29 2012, 08:08 AM

That would provide more comedy value when someone inevitably drives over them.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 29 2012, 10:24 AM

Maybe it is littering & ASB. Regardless, the new owner wants to stop vehicles using his drive in the evening. It is his drive.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 29 2012, 11:17 AM

Then he should cough?

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 29 2012, 11:35 AM

I'm sure he will.

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 29 2012, 11:48 AM

It is just sad that people cannto be trusted, am guessing it is only in recent years with this latest useless generation that it has become a real problem.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 29 2012, 11:50 AM

Oh definitely, go back 25 or more years and Newbury was crime free and there was absolutely no antisocial behaviour.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 29 2012, 11:54 AM

or the 1950s, 1920s, etc tec

the only thing that has changed is people's knowledge & toleration of such behaviour.

Anyway, I have a feeling that the ASB is more likely 40+ adventurous couples & swingers busy dogging the night away.

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 29 2012, 12:20 PM

It mainly all goes back to the welfare state.

Posted by: x2lls Aug 29 2012, 01:05 PM

So only those on benefits drop litter and are responsible for ASB?

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 29 2012, 01:51 PM

Nope, but the welfare state is responsble for probably 90% of the countries problems.

Immigration
Teen Pregnancies
Unemployed 18-24 year olds

list goes on

Posted by: Timbo Aug 29 2012, 02:46 PM

What about the unemployed 24 year olds or those who are older..............................
You seem to have such an issue with the youth of today, Andy. And it's wrong and unjustified unfortunately :/

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 29 2012, 03:01 PM

I'm not sure that it is, almost all young people I know expect so much from the state its unrealistic. The whole EMA rubbish, they expect housing benefit top ups, tax credits for going to work etc etc. Labour created far to many state dependant poeple.

Posted by: Timbo Aug 29 2012, 03:34 PM

And what young people do you know? I don't think you're the kind to really give them time.
Tax credits aren't they something you get?

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 29 2012, 03:37 PM

Nope I don't get them, they were brought in by Labour who were decided it did'nt matter if you worked or not and kindly made people who did'nt work better off than those that do. I know quite a few youngsters, and they all just expect things like housing benefit, EMA etc. I know of very few who expect to work soley for providing for themselves, they want handouts along the way somewhere.

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 29 2012, 03:46 PM

and there are so many people who have kids that they cannot afford without tax credits, it's just the wrong attitude.

Posted by: Timbo Aug 29 2012, 04:01 PM

Okay and what youngsters do you know? Where from? How long do you know them?

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 29 2012, 04:07 PM

Students who we have come and do placements, various brothers and sisters of close friends.

Posted by: Timbo Aug 29 2012, 04:25 PM

And I have a feeling you have long, open minded conversations with the students who come to your place of work?

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 29 2012, 04:31 PM

Yep of course, their normally ok though. It is a fact that the latest generation are heavily relient on welfare.

Posted by: NORTHENDER Aug 29 2012, 04:35 PM

Do you teach them how to waste the company time by sitting on penny ante forums all day rather than getting on with some real work. It does have its compensations though as you are only on here during office hours.

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 29 2012, 04:41 PM

You always spoil things, I shall ensure I come on more often now.

Posted by: NORTHENDER Aug 29 2012, 06:50 PM

I spoil nothing. I cannot think of anything more horrifying than having young people entrusted to you to show them how to behave in the workplace. All you would teach them is hatred towards fellow human beings, god help them.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 29 2012, 07:40 PM

As the whole thing's made-up, you have nothing to fear!

Posted by: Nothing Much Aug 29 2012, 07:55 PM

I just thought I would bring the subject back to Donnington for a brief moment
Maths, gymnastics and pretty much everything else I was hopeless at.So I ignored all that.
However there is a footpath that runs from the Blackbird in Bagnor up to Donnington castle.

After a couple of pints on a moonlit night a gang of us younsters would enjoy just watching the stars.
Of course we left all our crisp packets,empty vodka bottles for someone else.
That was just a gag. And that was the longest deviation I have ever come across.
PS Thanks for stout defense of the Nothing Much franchise. I don't take things to heart.

ce

Posted by: x2lls Aug 29 2012, 08:29 PM

I know the path well, especially the marshy bit as you end up towards the theatre.
Have you noticed the horsetail which is making great strides towards the castle?. Serious stuff, my garden has been blighted by the nasty stuff.

df

Posted by: Simon Kirby Aug 29 2012, 08:47 PM

Nasty stuff horsetail, you have to spray with glyphosate and then crush the leaves and stems to get the chemical in through the wax.

I've only been up to the castle a couple of times, used to run up to it. I didn't think it was particularly interesting, though the country round about is nice. As castles and ruins go I think it's probably the least interesting one I've visited. Mind, you get a nice view of the castle across the Kennet valley from Round Hill in Enborne.

Posted by: NORTHENDER Aug 29 2012, 09:28 PM

Yes I know you are right AC. He's just a bean counter and envelope stuffer, Sad really.

Posted by: x2lls Aug 29 2012, 10:49 PM

So let us see these 'facts'!!!!.

At this point I really don't give a stuff about whether I get burnt for this, but here goes.
Andy, you are one of most obnoxious, biased youth hitting idiots I have ever encountered .
Will you PLEASE just stop hitting the younger generation with your utter crap. You are, in my opinion one of the worst individuals I have ever encountered.

Just stfu

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 29 2012, 11:09 PM

The only thing you have been burned by is his trolling.

Posted by: x2lls Aug 29 2012, 11:58 PM

Maybe AC, but he ain't no troll, he's giving his true interpretation of the next generation, severely misguided as it is. I say 10/10 on the twatometer.
Northender got it right.

Posted by: Jayjay Aug 30 2012, 06:50 AM

Just watching the para olypmians on tv. Mostly under 24, guess many on state benefits because of their disability, and wondering which of them you refer too.

Posted by: Squelchy Aug 30 2012, 07:39 AM

So a country with little or limited welfare systems, like, say, the U.S.A. has none of those problems?

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 30 2012, 08:10 AM

much less of these problems thats for certain.

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 30 2012, 08:12 AM

Ignore the facts if you like, but its all there for you to read.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 30 2012, 08:52 AM

facts please.

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 30 2012, 08:54 AM

I think its a known fact that the UK has lapse immigration controls and a soft and very generous welfare system. Hence the condems trying to reduce the bill.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 30 2012, 09:00 AM

A known fact. Thats why 2000 students at London Met have had their visas revoked this morning.

Anyway, that wasn't Squelchy's question.

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 30 2012, 09:01 AM

Good, thats 2000 less students on the welfare bill.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 30 2012, 09:27 AM

Welfare? you ain't got a clue have you.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 30 2012, 09:50 AM

Please remember andy1979uk doesn't care; he is simply a troll and you are all supplying him with fun.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 30 2012, 09:53 AM

No, he is a sad individual.

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 30 2012, 09:53 AM

quite the opposite

Posted by: Nothing Much Aug 30 2012, 10:45 AM

Donnington seems to have lost it's way. So I will return to the Horses Tail. That is terribly invasive,
In the village I have just returned from, "Much Annoyance with NM in the Marsh". There is a large area of Knotweed.
Every year a farmer is paid to JCB it up and volunteers dive in to remove roots. It is an endless cycle.
Like ground elder it springs up again the next year.I think the idea is to try and stop it spreading for now.

The government boffins have come up with a bug that might kill it. But when they do that the bugs go on the rampage.
ce.

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 30 2012, 11:23 AM

am guessing there is a point, but if they rampage then they are punished.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 30 2012, 11:37 AM

Maybe, but I'm surprised you fall for it. He's getting the exact reaction he wishes ... I think. Perhaps he deserves his own thread?

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 30 2012, 11:49 AM

Fall for it? I don't think he's trolling, I think he really believes what he posts.

Reaction? No more of a reaction to any other inane post folk stick on here.........

Anyway, at least we know his real name now.

Posted by: Nothing Much Aug 30 2012, 11:54 AM

Good one Andy Capp.
I do have a guidebook for Donnington Castle which I bought from the PO in the village.
So that makes me an expert. I don't remember a gate from about 1971 to my last visit in about 1986.

So I guess it popped up and broke since then.
Absolutely no point about this comment. Apart from the guidebook. I may be the only one with one .
ce

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 30 2012, 01:13 PM

Believing what one posts doesn't stop one from being a troll.


That's my point, and I think he's playing games with everyone.


Do we? When was that?

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 30 2012, 01:28 PM

Graham Ward apparently. Lives in Reading.

Posted by: Nothing Much Aug 30 2012, 01:33 PM

Anyway, at least we know his real name now.

All 9 billion?
ce

Posted by: Timbo Aug 30 2012, 01:56 PM

LOL.



Let's hope she doesn't eat you too.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 30 2012, 01:58 PM

He posted new thread which led to a story in a Reading paper about himself.

Posted by: Penelope Aug 30 2012, 02:00 PM

How do you know it's about him?

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 30 2012, 02:01 PM

A wild guess.

Posted by: Penelope Aug 30 2012, 02:05 PM

As you are so fond of saying "facts please"

Posted by: andy1979uk Aug 30 2012, 02:24 PM

I can assure you that is not me in the article.

Posted by: Timbo Aug 30 2012, 03:57 PM

Well did someone not once ask for a picture of either your child or your child in background of shot holding a card with your username on it, or a picture of your face (shudder) or your car to prove you are not a MASSIVE liar.

Posted by: Nothing Much Aug 30 2012, 04:22 PM

She does look as if she occupies both side of the bed.
"Let's hope she doesn't eat you too".
ce

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 31 2012, 09:43 AM

Maybe you should go & look up 'irony' in the dictionary.

Clue - it isn't what you do to your husband's shirts.

Posted by: Penelope Aug 31 2012, 10:08 AM

Ha ha, whats irony got to do with it, and by the way, I think we should set up a separate thread just for you, and title it "Mysogonist Mumblings"

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 31 2012, 10:14 AM

I can't be bothered to explain it to you.

Posted by: Penelope Aug 31 2012, 10:19 AM

Just about sums it up!

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 31 2012, 10:24 AM

Sums what up?


I can't help it if you butt in half way through a thread.

Posted by: Timbo Aug 31 2012, 10:33 AM

I once fed chicken to a chicken.
The space time paradox continues.

Posted by: Penelope Aug 31 2012, 10:44 AM

Sorry for interrupting what must have been a private forum!

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 31 2012, 10:48 AM

No, but it is polite to read what you have missed before going off on one.

Anyway, have you done the dusting?

Posted by: Penelope Aug 31 2012, 10:54 AM

Hoo Hoo, mighty big in Cyberspace aren't we 'Flameboy'

Posted by: JeffG Aug 31 2012, 09:22 PM

If you're at a loose end, I have a pile of ironing waiting, Pen.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 31 2012, 09:25 PM

I could with some hoovering done, but maybe a cup of tea and a cheese sandwich first, eh?

Posted by: JeffG Aug 31 2012, 09:26 PM

'Ere, I got first dibs!

Posted by: Biker1 Sep 3 2012, 09:02 AM

Posted by: Timbo Sep 3 2012, 09:11 AM

LOL.
Not at all far from the truth.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Sep 3 2012, 09:28 AM

Not sure it ever got mentioned, but English Heritage have agreed to 7am - 7pm gate opening times. I think that's what the local dog walkers had asked for and to me seems a perfectly reasonable accomodation by EH, so well done. Always nice to see officialdom acting reasonably in response to legitimate concerns.

Posted by: Timbo Sep 4 2012, 09:53 AM

Removed until further notice.