Hector Sants on New Year Honours list Options

[On the edge]

newres: you might find that coming on here and calling people idiots for no apparent reason other than they disagree with your less than candid views, will not win you many admirers.

As for anyone else sympathetic to the award bestowed, it would take someone with a very narrow minded point of view to fail to recognise the inappropriateness of awarding high office with knighthoods that have systemic failed the nation in such a profound way. Even if the individual himself was not at fault.

Thank you

Quite the reverse I would suggest. Someone who can see and understand the wider picture; rather than simply following the baying of the mob! I'd argue that to close your mind to any alternative opinion demonstrates a strictly parochial view at best.

(Just for the same of clarity I'm not 'newres' either!)

[Andy Capp]

Thank you

Quite the reverse I would suggest. Someone who can see and understand the wider picture; rather than simply following the baying of the mob! I'd argue that to close your mind to any alternative opinion demonstrates a strictly parochial view at best.

(Just for the same of clarity I'm not 'newres' either!)

I did not close my mind to your opinion, only that you appear to not to see why it is an issue. You go even further and imply you understand the merits behind the decision, although I doubt you do and are merely speculating.

[On the edge]

I did not close my mind to your opinion, only that you appear to not to see why it is an issue. You go even further and imply you understand the merits behind the decision, although I doubt you do and are merely speculating.

I am well aware that the 'masses' did not like the award of this honour. I am well aware of the reasons. I can also see why this honour was given and therefore do not see it as an issue. How dare you say that I am simply speculating about the merits of the decision implying that I do not know what I am talking about. That is offensive and I must ask you to withdraw that statement.

[Andy Capp]

I am well aware that the 'masses' did not like the award of this honour. I am well aware of the reasons. I can also see why this honour was given and therefore do not see it as an issue. How dare you say that I am simply speculating about the merits of the decision implying that I do not know what I am talking about. That is offensive and I must ask you to withdraw that statement.

I did have a full response for you, but on second thoughts I think it would be more appropriate to explain that I regret you are offended, but I feel I don't deserve your ire based on the posts I have made. Indeed, I don't feel you can justifiably state that I have closed my mind to your suggestion, I merely cast doubt on its merits. I never said or implied that you didn't know what you were talking about; that is a distortion of events.

I don't believe that people deserve high reward for digging one out of a mess that they helped to put us in in the first place. It is the least they could do.

[On the edge]

I did have a full response for you, but on second thoughts I think it would be more appropriate to explain that I regret you are offended, but I feel I don't deserve your ire based on the posts I have made. Indeed, I don't feel you can justifiably state that I have closed my mind to your suggestion, I merely cast doubt on its merits. I never said or implied that you didn't know what you were talking about; that is a distortion of events.

I don't believe that people deserve high reward for digging one out of a mess that they helped to put us in in the first place. It is the least they could do.

I am willing to accept that. However as to the correctness of the award I will continue to have confidence in the judgement of the Honours Committee, the Prime Minister and the Palace secretariat. I also do not intend to repeat what I've said earlier save to say that my personal experience also supports this.

[Andy Capp]

I'm sure there has a been a number of deserving recipients, but surely recent history regards 'cash for honours' and indeed, the award of a knighthood and the subsequent removal for Fred Goodwin must cast doubt in the integrity of the awards system?

[On the edge]

The awards system has never been perfect. Now certainly better that when it started and people were rewarded simply for having intimate relations with the monarch. Of late its a lot cleaner, but we are dealing with humans. When Goodwin was given the honour, it was for charity and at the time, it appeared he was running his business with integrity. Regrettably even the Honours Committee aren't blessed with hindsight. The honours system may well be flawed, but apart from agreeing there should be one, no acceptable better alternative has yet been proposed. That some are even willing to try and bribe their way to an honour shows it still has some value.

[Andy Capp]

...When Goodwin was given the honour, it was for charity...

He was knighted for his services to banking. I think the awards system should be more transparent. A proper citation for a start. Although you somewhat deride the idea of the 'masses' baying for blood, in the instance of the banking industry, I think they have a right. To the average Joe, the award to Hector Sants looks preposterous.

[Squelchy]

When Goodwin was given the honour, it was for charity

Wrong.

He was knighted for his services to banking.

Spot on. Goodwin's knighthood, awarded in 2004 for "services to banking", was "cancelled and annulled" on 1 February 2012.

[On the edge]

Wrong.





Spot on. Goodwin's knighthood, awarded in 2004 for "services to banking", was "cancelled and annulled" on 1 February 2012.

Gold star to you!

[On the edge]

I had it sometime back if not from the horses mouth certainly from the stable lad, so didn't bother to check. However, does not detract from the point I was trying to make; at the time of the award, Goodwin was regarded as a superb banker, the UK counter to American and Continental types. That was the assessed view of the establishment and indeed the 'masses'. He was seen almost as a saint in Scotland. Difficult back then to find anyone, certainly in the City who'd say anything against. The books balanced. Of course, since then we now know they didn't and the extent of the corruption went far further than just him. Remember, that had to include audit firms and all the internal senior and middle management layers throughout the whole financial sector. In the country of the blind, the one eyed man isn't King, rather he's generally regarded as a big headed know all.

[Andy Capp]

So therefore, the regulatory body was faulty, as is perhaps, the honour system. Had these people saved us from a crash that would be a reason to be knighted. Perhaps they shouldn't dish them out so readily so that one's effort can be properly assessed? This has gone way beyond the scope of the OP, where it was just a flippant reaction regard a rather funny coincidence.

[On the edge]

Very difficult these days to determine what this forum is trying to be, tap room banter where flippant comments are tossed around for general amusement or a college debating society where the only emphasis is correctness of grammar and actuality.

[x2lls]

Very difficult these days to determine what this forum is trying to be, tap room banter where flippant comments are tossed around for general amusement or a college debating society where the only emphasis is correctness of grammar and actuality.

'It's' very difficult!!

[On the edge]

'It's' pointless!

I think I've got it.

[NWNREADER]

I've just seen this
Banking Regulations

Interesting, as I remember a column in the Torygraph by Christopher Booker pointing out much of the 'problem' with banking was the imposed change in liquidity ratio. His implication was it was an EU-led thing, but the central thrust was that banks, after years of operating one system of monitoring their 'security' had to go to a daily report on cash in hand and available to pay debts immediately. The likelihood of any bank needing to make such payment was minimal, and as the majority of their funds were used 24hours for trading securities around the world the access to cash at 5pm in London was barely a proper measure. Thus a bank had to report it was below the liquidity ratio and was instantly deemed 'a risk' (or worse). The bank was no more (or less) secure as it had been the day (or hour) before, but at the moment of reporting they had to declare a deficiency. Because of the number of banks based or doing business in the EU is so great, and especially because most of those banks also do business outside the EU where the rule was not applied, the impact was international.

So, did we have a banking crisis, or did we have a created crisis......? Just wondering

[On the edge]

Banking liquidity is generally paper - so if the loans the paper represents aren't going to be repaid then no matter what monitors are in place, you end up with a crisis. However else it may be spun, prime cause was reckless lending. First rule of business = get paid.

[NWNREADER]

I don't claim to know the answers, and have never been involved in banking other than an account with Natwest and its forerunner Westminster Bank since 1956, but maybe we should look at some of the alternative places to lay responsibility.

Google "Christopher Booker" banking crisis
I pick out this item
Now CB is no banker either, and has a vehement anti-EU stance, but he does seem to have a consistent line that has never been dismissed as best I know.

[On the edge]

I would suggest that's a pretty good summary, whatever his EC stance! Trouble is that the financial world is all interconnected, a breakdown in one place will cause a catastrophic collapse if the other parts fail. Had the 'Euro' area lived up to the dream, we might have averted the worst. Regrettably as many outside thought, the Euro strength was just that, a dream. I suppose there is also a very good argument for saying if the toxic loan issue hadn't come out when it did, it was only a matter of time before the Greek and Irish economies collapsed anyway. No matter the cause, I suspect our biggest worry right now should be that it could get far worse. In spite of what has been going on to put matters right, the Euro area in particular is by no means out of trouble,

[Squelchy]

Google "Christopher Booker" banking crisis

Make sure you actually put his name into Google. (if you only type in the words "patron saint of charlatans" - you'll be led to his why-oh-why pieces elsewhere). Be warned.