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> What is the point of them in an emergency?
GMR
post Aug 21 2015, 03:55 PM
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Today I witnessed a police car speeding from the Clock Tower towards town (lights flashing, so obviously there was an emergency) and then had to do a quick swerve, mount the pavement - pedestrians had to move quickly out of the way - and continue to their destination. The police car had to mount the pavement because the bollards were up and it would have taken them too long to put their card into the machine and then wait for the bollards to lower into the ground. On another occasion - this was awhile back - I noticed a police car speeding towards town, immediately stop (because of the bollards), two officers got out of the police car and run all the away to a shop near WHSmiths.

They are no good to the police, fire brigade or ambulance if there is an emergency (they are a hindrance). Those few minutes - being held up by the bollards - could mean failure to reach their target.

There is also the danger of mounting the pavement and hitting a pedestrian.

When I spoke to various officials I was told that they knew there was a problem, but financial considerations prevented them from sorting it out. I know that some in the emergency services are not very happy. I suppose it will either take an accident (because of mounting the kerb) and hitting somebody, or that somebody dies because of their delay.


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user23
post Aug 21 2015, 04:33 PM
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I would have thought the main danger here is cars speeding through a pedestrianised area.
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GMR
post Aug 21 2015, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 21 2015, 05:33 PM) *
I would have thought the main danger here is cars speeding through a pedestrianised area.





Basically you are saying that one supersedes the other? Camera's could deal with speeding cars or unauthorised vehicles at certain times. Another point; electronic buttons installed in emergency cars can be operated when a vehicle is nearby - once pressed - will lower the barriers so that when the vehicle approaches they can go straight through. I believe there are areas in this country, and abroad, that have them.

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Andy Capp
post Aug 21 2015, 05:06 PM
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Or link up the barrier control to the emergency service's control rooms.
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je suis Charlie
post Aug 21 2015, 05:33 PM
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A simple transponder in the vehicle takes care of the problem.


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On the edge
post Aug 21 2015, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 21 2015, 05:33 PM) *
I would have thought the main danger here is cars speeding through a pedestrianised area.


Absolutely right.

It would be interesting to know exactly where they were going and what was the emergency. Arguably, they should not be putting other lives at risk; simply to save another.


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Strafin
post Aug 21 2015, 06:30 PM
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They're the police, they do what they want and get away with it. There probably is no reason for them to have been going through town at all.
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GMR
post Aug 21 2015, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 21 2015, 07:30 PM) *
They're the police, they do what they want and get away with it. There probably is no reason for them to have been going through town at all.





They get away with it until a death occurs by their actions.

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GMR
post Aug 21 2015, 07:07 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 21 2015, 07:06 PM) *
Absolutely right. It would be interesting to know exactly where they were going and what was the emergency. Arguably, they should not be putting other lives at risk; simply to save another.





But that is another matter; until we know differently or can prove otherwise then we must accept that is was an emergency; which then takes up back to the question of bollards and the police not getting through.

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GMR
post Aug 21 2015, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Aug 21 2015, 06:33 PM) *
A simple transponder in the vehicle takes care of the problem.





Simple to you and I, but not to the council or police authorities. That will have to wait until a death is caused or a late arrival happens because of the bollards, for that bit of logic to be forced up the agenda.

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On the edge
post Aug 21 2015, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 21 2015, 08:07 PM) *
But that is another matter; until we know differently or can prove otherwise then we must accept that is was an emergency; which then takes up back to the question of bollards and the police not getting through.


Still don't agree that the Emergency services should be able to override traffic safety regulations.


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user23
post Aug 21 2015, 08:00 PM
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Surely it only takes a few seconds for the bollards to go down, I can't see a technical reason why it would take minutes.
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GMR
post Aug 21 2015, 08:06 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 21 2015, 09:00 PM) *
Surely it only takes a few seconds for the bollards to go down, I can't see a technical reason why it would take minutes.


You have to present your card, then wait until the bollards go down before you can proceed. This takes valuable time. They have their lights flashing and in a hurry for a reason.
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user23
post Aug 21 2015, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 21 2015, 09:06 PM) *
You have to present your card, then wait until the bollards go down before you can proceed. This takes valuable time. They have their lights flashing and in a hurry for a reason.
That's about 20 seconds, tops. What's the problem?

They're entering a pedestrianised area with a 20 MPH limit, they can't in that much of a rush.
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GMR
post Aug 21 2015, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 21 2015, 08:49 PM) *
Still don't agree that the Emergency services should be able to override traffic safety regulations.


I disagree. If it is an emergency then they should. If it was my child or even yours and they had died or suffered because they didn't over ride safety traffic regulations we wouldn't be sitting around and saying they did the right thing. We would be going for the jugular, and rightly so.
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GMR
post Aug 21 2015, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 21 2015, 09:08 PM) *
That's about 20 seconds, tops. What's the problem?

They're entering a pedestrianised area with a 20 MPH limit, they can't in that much of a rush.


Actually it takes a lot longer than that. And in an emergency they would be going a lot faster than 20 miles an hour. And in the case I saw they were going faster than the speed limit.
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user23
post Aug 21 2015, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 21 2015, 09:15 PM) *
Actually it takes a lot longer than that. And in an emergency they would be going a lot faster than 20 miles an hour. And in the case I saw they were going faster than the speed limit.
Actually it doesn't, it takes about 20 seconds.

So now we've established that, the real issue is should people be speeding in a pedestrianised area?
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On the edge
post Aug 21 2015, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 21 2015, 09:12 PM) *
I disagree. If it is an emergency then they should. If it was my child or even yours and they had died or suffered because they didn't over ride safety traffic regulations we wouldn't be sitting around and saying they did the right thing. We would be going for the jugular, and rightly so.


Not if they have bumped off other innocent members of the public. Sadly, they have done that too many times and even round here. That they managed to easily circumnavigate the bollards demonstrates there is no problem for them in emergency situations. In this case, they would have met a good many confused pedestrians as they wended their way through the pedestrian area; so would have necessarily been slow.

So again, what type of emergency needed such a response; life and death? No that would be an ambulance, fire? No that would be a fire engine, a hold up; lights and siren would be counter productive.....


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GMR
post Aug 21 2015, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 21 2015, 09:21 PM) *
Actually it doesn't, it takes about 20 seconds.

So now we've established that, the real issue is should people be speeding in a pedestrianised area?


First; I've timed it, secondly I've had it confirmed by a police officer. Now we've confirmed and verified this another issue we can add is that if the police are speeding in a certain area pedestrians get out of the way fast, just as they do an any vehicle road.
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user23
post Aug 21 2015, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 21 2015, 09:29 PM) *
First; I've timed it, secondly I've had it confirmed by a police officer. Now we've confirmed and verified this another issue we can add is that if the police are speeding in a certain area pedestrians get out of the way fast, just as they do an any vehicle road.
Exactly how long did it take?

Why did you need a police officer to confirm something you'd seen with your own eyes?
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